Jurassic Shark 12,180 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 On 8.4.2018 at 4:55 AM, Woj said: I plan to share my entire music collection with my family once it's sorted. I've only been working on it for a decade. Just give it to them in your testament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,364 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 15 minutes ago, Fal said: Just wondering is that a subtle reference to the "Lost World" theme in The Trek at 1:31 (and maybe 1:05?) It strikes me as a very subtle reference to the opening bar of the main theme, yes. Same chord progression, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 15 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: Just give it to them in your testament. I have that one, by James Horner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,723 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Fal said: Just wondering is that a subtle reference to the "Lost World" theme in The Trek at 1:31 (and maybe 1:05?) While it might be related to the Lost World theme I called this little idea the Trek motif in my analysis as it is repeated during the cue and later appears in Compys Dine very subtly. Ludwig and crumbs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 I remember having a long and tiring discussion on this forum whether The Hunt was based on The Lost World theme. We came to the conclusion that it is not! Same here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,402 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 7 minutes ago, Josh500 said: I remember having a long and tiring discussion on this forum whether The Hunt was based on The Lost World theme. We came to the conclusion that it is not! Same here. #SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,364 Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 7 hours ago, Incanus said: While it might be related to the Lost World theme I called this little idea the Trek motif in my analysis as it is repeated during the cue and later appears in Compys Dine very subtly. Am I imagining things or does the same motif appear here in Malcolm's Journey? Ludwig 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 Just read filmtracks' updated review for this set and was thoroughly disappointed by his analysis and thoughts on the previously unreleased material. I think the revelations of this expanded set really cements my opinion that it makes the score, not hinders it. Before this expansion I was only really interested in a handful of cues - the ones available on the OST, but the expansion revealed an entirely different side of the score I hadn't considered even after seeing the film countless times. In CC's original review he reflects on the score as Williams having a 'bad hair day' and seems to imply as he does in other franchise score reviews that lack of continuity in themes from the previous score is an unforgivable sin. I can't help but disagree entirely with this assessment! With the dark, brooding, percussive and propulsive elements and the darker theme for this story I would easily place TLW in my most-listened scores since its release! Taikomochi and Brundlefly 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Docteur Qui 1,544 Posted May 2, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 2, 2018 CC is unbelievably hung up on the lack of thematic continuity, and it makes for a poor review with a whiny and entitled angle. Never mind the fact that neither major theme from the first movie would make sense in this film, or the fact that Williams hardly ever shows much regard for previously established themes or cues between films (with the obvious exception being the Star Wars films, and even then he's quite happy to dispose of themes mid-film, let alone between instalments). More and more of his reviews read as "the composer didn't create a masterpiece of thematic continuity, so I'm ripping it to shreds", despite the fact that the bulk of music in most film scores is non-thematic and many contemporary scores are moving away from the idea altogether. Brundlefly, Sharkissimo and crumbs 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Ludwig 1,120 Posted May 2, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 2, 2018 13 hours ago, Fal said: Just wondering is that a subtle reference to the "Lost World" theme in The Trek at 1:31 (and maybe 1:05?) I think a look at the style of the score in general might help give some kind of answer to this question. This period in Williams' film scoring career is marked by a relatively high degree of experimentation with respect to his previous film scores - Minority Report, A.I., and War of the Worlds come to mind. The Lost World fits into this pattern as well, most obviously through its unusual orchestration. But its thematic material of course is unusual too in that it draws very sparingly on the original's themes. And, though not exactly obvious, the structure of TLW's main theme is itself unusual. Williams' main themes typically break down into four short ideas that combine to create a complete theme. And the opening idea is usually repeated or varied at some point in the theme, his favorite overall structures being ABAC, AA'AB, and AAA'B. But TLW's theme goes ABCD - no repetition or direct variation, which is very unusual in his scores. The point is that he seems to be trying out different approaches to scoring in a number of ways. I think it's useful to keep all this in mind when considering your quesiton, @Fal, since another means of experimentation seems to be in the use of thematic material that has very strong similarities to, but also some important differences from, the main theme. This is unusual in Williams, where most themes remain easily distinguishable from one another even if there are some prominent connections. (The themes in E.T., for example, all have the interval of a 5th at or near their start, but we never confuse one theme for another.) In TLW, the motif developed in "The Trek" is, as @crumbs points out, stated with the main theme, though there it seems to function only as a kind of linking material between the more prominent statements of the main theme material. And it has much the same shape as part of the main theme, but is also distinctive in its own right. What is most unusual is the way this motif is detached from its original source in "The Trek", suggesting that it is a separate theme. Yet because it has such strong similarities to the main theme, once it is heard in "The Trek", we might best consider it a kind of variant of the main theme that, as @Incanus observes, has its own function. A sister theme, you might call it. Incidentally, I would say the same about the music of "The Hunt", which has its own repeated motif throughout but a motif that is again clearly a variant of main theme material. Another sister theme with a different function, then. So an answer to the question of whether these themes are the same or different from the main theme is blurred because, while they function differently, musically they resemble each other to a greater degree than would normally occur in Williams' scores. The result is score that, through its economy of material, gives a claustrophobic feeling of being subjected to a relatively confined environment, much as the characters become helplessly stuck on the island. Brundlefly, Incanus, Sharkissimo and 2 others 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,402 Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 Interesting about the ABC thing, are you referring to how it is structured in the track "The Lost World Theme" or the theme itself? do the additions to the standard version of the theme that is only heard in concert affect this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwig 1,120 Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 6 hours ago, Fal said: Interesting about the ABC thing, are you referring to how it is structured in the track "The Lost World Theme" or the theme itself? do the additions to the standard version of the theme that is only heard in concert affect this? It's the theme itself, and by that I mean the most complete form that can be considered self-contained (musically, I mean an eight-bar theme). Additions can be understood as embellishments to this self-contained core, or that core can be part of a larger structure, like when it's an A section to a larger ABA. So for TLW, this core is what's heard between 0:13 and 0:34, which has a structure of ABCD, as I mentioned. It's relatively rare in his main themes: What I find fascinating is how different this is from most of his other main themes. In Williams' more fantasy-based scores generally, a common structure for the main themes is AA' AB (or AA' AA'). Hedwig's theme is a great example of this one in its AA' AB form. This of course is the A section of a larger form that goes on to a B section. The part I mean is from 0:00-0:18 below: Another common structure in his fantasy-based scores is AA A'B. Take, for example, the full form of the Mountain Theme from CE3K heard in the end credits (from 0:50-1:32 below): Sharkissimo and GlastoEls 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 28 minutes ago, Ludwig said: It's the theme itself, and by that I mean the most complete form that can be considered self-contained (musically, I mean an eight-bar theme). Additions can be understood as embellishments to this self-contained core, or that core can be part of a larger structure, like when it's an A section to a larger ABA. So for TLW, this core is what's heard between 0:13 and 0:34, which has a structure of ABCD, as I mentioned. It's relatively rare in his main themes: What I find fascinating is how different this is from most of his other main themes. In Williams' more fantasy-based scores generally, a common structure for the main themes is AA' AB (or AA' AA'). Hedwig's theme is a great example of this one in its AA' AB form. This of course is the A section of a larger form that goes on to a B section. The part I mean is from 0:00-0:18 below: Another common structure in his fantasy-based scores is AA A'B. Take, for example, the full form of the Mountain Theme from CE3K heard in the end credits (from 0:50-1:32 below): Forgive my ignorance, but I'm not familiar with the use of apostrophes in the melody structure breakdown. Is that just to denote that that A' ends differently than A? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwig 1,120 Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 18 minutes ago, Disco Stu said: Forgive my ignorance, but I'm not familiar with the use of apostrophes in the melody structure breakdown. Is that just to denote that that A' ends differently than A? Exactly, or that it's just somehow a bit different, a variation of A, you might say. Disco Stu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 On 4.2.2017 at 1:28 PM, Josh500 said: Of course, the first thing you see in the background is a Morricone compilation . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,402 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 I saw Basic Instinct first.... crocodile and Josh500 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,723 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Just noticed that Christian Clemmensen at Filmtracks gave The Lost World 3/5 stars! I guess he isn't a fan of sequel scores that deviate too much from the mold set by the first scores in franchises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 As always, he's entitled to his opinion but I never find his perspective especially illuminating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 His old review was four stars. What the hell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Trent B 337 Posted May 31, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 31, 2018 People still visit his site? crumbs, Disco Stu and Kasey Kockroach 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,345 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 He gave Rogue One four stars, every other John Powell score gets a hideously dismissive three stars, Poltergeist gets four instead of five stars, he hates Link, he burned our crops, poisoned our water supply and delivered a plague onto our houses!! Not Mr. Big and Unlucky Bastard 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Yet @KK loves him! Disco Stu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Stefancos said: Yet @KK loves him! Come back @KK! Sharky and I here now! Come back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,345 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Is there a love triangle between Christian, KK and Sharky I should know about? Sharkissimo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Yes there is! 3 minutes ago, Disco Stu said: Come back @KK! Wait, did KK leave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 10 minutes ago, Stefancos said: Wait, did KK leave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,723 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 I hope he will return some day. When we least expect it but when we need him the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,499 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 4 hours ago, Incanus said: Just noticed that Christian Clemmensen at Filmtracks gave The Lost World 3/5 stars! I guess he isn't a fan of sequel scores that deviate too much from the mold set by the first scores in franchises. It's a note given for the OST... which was "ordinary" and not so well balanced between action cues and slower ones. Nothing compared to the expanded score, which is "PERFECT". I never loved the OST, in fact I truly discovered this score with the expanded set. I wonder if I really listened the OST once completely... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,489 Posted May 31, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 31, 2018 The Lost World is Williams' best score. There was something in the water there in SoCal in the mid-to-late 90s which caused Williams, Horner and Arnold to compose their best shit. Goldsmith had a Brita. Dixon Hill, Unlucky Bastard, crumbs and 2 others 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,345 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 At the very least, I can attest that A Visitor in San Diego is his best non-E.T finale! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 On 31.5.2018 at 8:03 PM, kaseykockroach said: He gave Rogue One four stars, every other John Powell score gets a hideously dismissive three stars, Poltergeist gets four instead of five stars, he hates Link, he burned our crops, poisoned our water supply and delivered a plague onto our houses!! There are more crimes: Alien only 4 stars, Total Recall only 4 stars, JFK only 2 stars, The Prisoner of Azkaban only 4 stars, The Mummy only 3 stars, Alien 3 only 2 stars, ... ... ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 5 minutes ago, Brundlefly said: There are more crimes: Alien only 4 stars, He's got a thing against mood-setting scores. Like if a score isn't constantly hitting you over the head with effing leitmotifs it isn't worth listening to. It's moronic Kasey Kockroach 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Although Alien still does that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Sort of. Not saying there aren’t themes but it ain’t exactly wagnerian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taikomochi 1,137 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Actually, he gave Alien 3 stars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,345 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 I demand a price on his head! Noggin, that is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 On 1.6.2018 at 1:52 AM, Batman's Diet Coke said: The Lost World is Williams' best score. There was something in the water there in SoCal in the mid-to-late 90s which caused Williams, Horner and Arnold to compose their best shit. Goldsmith had a Brita. Goldsmith did some of his most-beloved work in that period, what are you babbling about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 1 hour ago, publicist said: Goldsmith did some of his most-beloved work in that period, what are you babbling about? What are you refering to? And BTW, you once said that also Goldsmith made a lot of shit. What were you refering to back then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 It's pretty self-explanatory what is what, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Not really. One man's turd is another man's gold[smith]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Empirical board studies show that to be untrue, at east i've yet to find a poll where scores like 'Not without my Daughter' even register. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 I don't mind that score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 But it's bad, like too many others of that period. Minding or liking it is another matter. 'Bad Girls' is a rather bad score - the synclavier main theme is obnoxious, the action material is warmed-over Rambo - but i enjoy certain cues. Doesn't mean you can't call a spade a spade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Uh, excuse me, are you mansplaining me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 I'm doing that since we first met. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Gruesome Son of a Bitch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 And you seem to dig it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 6 hours ago, publicist said: It's pretty self-explanatory what is what, isn't it? Not without my Daughter Bad Girls The Vanishing Mom and Dad Save the World Mr. Baseball Caboblanco Six Degrees of Separation First Knight The Shadow The Ghost and the Darkness The Edge Mulan The Mummy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 i. e. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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