John 2,032 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 I didn't mind the reusing of the ANH flute piece in TLJ... I actually now like to think of that brief piccolo as somewhat of an unofficial "imminent space chase" motif of sorts, as that's how both episodes IV and VIII begin with; a grand opening sequence involving the baddies pursuing the heroes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p0llux 400 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 well in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't really make a difference. But it would satisfy me more if it were different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,319 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Seems like the type of thing Johnson might mention on the commentary, so we could get an explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenturnedblue 372 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 20 hours ago, artguy360 said: As far as I can recall JW has never reused post-crawl intro music before. I find the quote of the ANH flute line completely baffling and not a good way to start the score. I think the music straight after the crawl in AotC was lifted from TPM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 4 hours ago, JohnSolo said: I didn't mind the reusing of the ANH flute piece in TLJ... I actually now like to think of that brief piccolo as somewhat of an unofficial "imminent space chase" motif of sorts Perfect example of how JW/SW fans colour their world to fit a picture that was never intended, just so they don't have to admit that something was simply lazily scored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p0llux 400 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 1 hour ago, greenturnedblue said: I think the music straight after the crawl in AotC was lifted from TPM Actually you're correct on this one. Those meandering strings are the same for a few bars. But that didn't affect me as much as the piccolo, because to me it's like a signature for ANH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balahkay 627 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 The FYC track has a different opening but I don't recall if the action occurs fast enough after the crawl for that music to work. Is it possible the piccolo was tracked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,950 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 7 hours ago, JohnSolo said: I didn't mind the reusing of the ANH flute piece in TLJ... I actually now like to think of that brief piccolo as somewhat of an unofficial "imminent space chase" motif of sorts, as that's how both episodes IV and VIII begin with; a grand opening sequence involving the baddies pursuing the heroes. 2 hours ago, gkgyver said: Perfect example of how JW/SW fans colour their world to fit a picture that was never intended, just so they don't have to admit that something was simply lazily scored. Not to mention over-compensating in terms of seeing leitmotives anywhere. Its just a little piccolo figure: It doesn't represent anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giftheck 917 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 1 hour ago, someonefun124 said: The FYC track has a different opening but I don't recall if the action occurs fast enough after the crawl for that music to work. Is it possible the piccolo was tracked? No. The album contains the actual opening of the film right up to the Rebel Fanfare. After that "Anakin Takes Off"-esque note ends, the FYC track begins in the film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,319 Posted January 7, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 7, 2018 1 hour ago, someonefun124 said: The FYC track has a different opening but I don't recall if the action occurs fast enough after the crawl for that music to work. Is it possible the piccolo was tracked? No, absolutely not, it's newly recorded. 3 hours ago, gkgyver said: Perfect example of how JW/SW fans colour their world to fit a picture that was never intended, just so they don't have to admit that something was simply lazily scored. Or Williams just thought it might be fun to open the score with a musical tribute of the original film for its 40th Anniversary? Not everything needs to have some deeper meaning. Likewise, just because something's been reused from a previous score doesn't mean Williams was being lazy. His Star Wars and Indy scores are filled with musical tips-of-the-hat. In any event, it's literally 7 seconds in a 2.5 hour score. The alternative scoring choice was probably just 7 seconds of nondescript athematic music in the vein of Starry Night's opening 15 seconds. Almost the entirety of the opening sequence that follows (9 minute's worth) is brand new music, with maybe 40 seconds of existing themes. Hardly worth getting your knickers in a knot over. _deleted_, Taikomochi, cameron.osborn and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p0llux 400 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 If someone can complain about a short BOTH quote, then someone can complain about a short ANH quote. Both have merits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,950 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 8 minutes ago, p0llux said: Both have demerits. Fixed. Really, I wouldn't mind it so much if this wasn't coming from a composer who always tried so carefully (and succeed) in crafting scores that were each based on predominantly on new thematic material. For him to abandon (yes, abandon) that way of work in the eighth score is understandable, but disappointing nonetheless. I suppose one can make excuses for it, but that's what they'll always be - excuses. At the very least, we can agree its nowhere near top-tier Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p0llux 400 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 I'm not gonna lose any sleep over either of those complaints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 The handwringing over such trivialities just shows some of you should find some pastimes besides SW. Jurassic Shark and crumbs 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,950 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 They're no more trivial than any of the praises this score is receiving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,091 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 What a useless thread this has turned into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Arpy 4,145 Posted January 7, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 7, 2018 4 hours ago, gkgyver said: Perfect example of how JW/SW fans colour their world to fit a picture that was never intended, just so they don't have to admit that something was simply lazily scored. Why can't it be how it is? Why is there a conspiracy that JW was lazy or it was Johnson being overzealous with his choices? Jesus Christ, it's just a piece of music they thought worked there, which to me it did. cameron.osborn, Falstaft and crumbs 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post publicist 4,643 Posted January 7, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 7, 2018 I mean seriously, a 4 second transitional passage is now under scrutiny as if it were making or breaking a work of art...? The wholesale lifts that are part of these scores since ROTJ always compromised the 'saga' - if you were to take the SW universe as seriously as Shore took his LOTR trilogy - and TLJ just more admits to that. Again, the musical qualities are not affected by that, at least not more than the fact that half of TFA was hardly interesting underscore. Given the choice i know what i prefer. Tiburon, crumbs and Falstaft 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 57 minutes ago, Chen G. said: At the very least, we can agree its nowhere near top-tier Williams. What is "Top-tier" Williams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,091 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Stepmom Arpy, crumbs and Not Mr. Big 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,319 Posted January 7, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 7, 2018 2 hours ago, Chen G. said: At the very least, we can agree its nowhere near top-tier Williams. What the hell does this statement even mean? Listen to the music, look past the quoting of a few friggin notes and just listen to what Williams is saying in this score. It is brimming, packed with new ideas and brilliant reinterpretations of his existing material. It's your loss if you refuse to look past the fact that Williams is effortlessly, masterfully interweaving dozens of existing ideas into his modern craft (and his new ideas, of which there are plenty). I certainly don't agree with your close-minded opinion about "top-tier" Williams, whatever the fuck that is. Go listen to the thousands of hours of automated RC crap being churned out en masse and you might realise 7 seconds of quoted music really isn't the end of the world. By the way, seeing as Williams quoting Williams is so offensive, where's all your outrage for Williams quoting Here They Come in Return of the Jedi? Or quoting Departing Coruscant or The Duel in Revenge of the Sith? Or quoting the Trade Federation march for the clones in Attack of the Clones? Or the funeral music from Phantom Menace? Take off the rose-coloured glasses and you might remember this series has always been filled with wholesale quotes of existing music, no more or less offensive than seven seconds of Main Title from ANH. He wrote the exact score the film demanded and that's the ultimate responsibility of any composer. Taikomochi, Arpy, Remco and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,950 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Firstly, two wrongs (e.g. the lifts in Return of the Jedi) don't make a right. Secondly, regardless of those quotes, those scores were largely made up of new material, as is Williams practice. Here, partially because there aren't as many new ideas to fall back on, it isn't. Those lifts are only emblematic of a greater issue with the score, which is that it is dominated by the thematic ideas of Star Wars and The Force Awakens, and often in very familiar statements. That is a first for a Star Wars score. Or am I to understand that not only must we love this score, but we must love it as much as Wiliams' very best, or otherwise be deemed "close-minded"? And lastly, I should clarify that I don't dislike this score. Its not my favorite Star Wars score, not by a mile, but I also don't think its my least favorite, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 It is arrogant presumption to question Williams' creative motifs based in your own opinion of the score. Marcus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 While it is pastiche, there's nothing wrong with that when it's done with a bit of panache. TLJ surely is no masterpiece but neither SW nor Williams have delivered on that front in a long time. And i hardly blame Williams for that, he has to work what is handed to him and frankly, the way music in (blockbuster) movies handled today it's a minor miracle that he still does it. Arpy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,020 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 It's like poetry. It fucking rhymes. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 20 minutes ago, publicist said: While it is pastiche, there's nothing wrong with that when it's done with a bit of panache. TLJ surely is no masterpiece but neither SW nor Williams have delivered on that front in a long time. And i hardly blame Williams for that, he has to work what is handed to him and frankly, the way music in (blockbuster) movies handled today it's a minor miracle that he still does it. Agreed! 100%! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 4 hours ago, crocodile said: It's like poetry. It fucking rhymes. Karol Williams SW Scores are usually poetry like this: Take this kiss upon the brow!And, in parting from you now,Thus much let me avow--You are not wrong, who deemThat my days have been a dream;Yet if hope has flown awayIn a night, or in a day,In a vision, or in none,Is it therefore the less gone?All that we see or seemIs but a dream within a dream. Last Jedi is poetry like this: Take this kiss upon the brow!And, in parting from you now,Thus much let me avow--You are not wrong, who deemThat my days have been a dream;Yet take this kiss upon the brow,In a night, let me avow--In a vision, you deem Is it my days that have been a dream?In parting from you now,Take this kiss upon the brow. Joni Wiljami 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,091 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 This is not a poetry forum. Not Mr. Big and crumbs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,641 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 6 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: Stepmom Stepmom is a quality score Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,091 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 I agree - it's JW after all. It's just a bit boring to me compared to many of his other drama scores. But that doesn't mean it isn't better than 99% of everything Zimmer has written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Zimmer has written entertaining drama scores, i. e. Spanglish, As Good As it Gets, Driving Miss Daisy or Nine Months. 'Stepmom's meandering score is hardly proof of Williams' singular abilities (but it is also a terrible movie). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BTR1701 59 Posted January 7, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 7, 2018 7 hours ago, Chen G. said: Firstly, two wrongs (e.g. the lifts in Return of the Jedi) don't make a right. How is that a 'wrong' in the first place? crumbs, Remco and John 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post John 2,032 Posted January 7, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 7, 2018 18 hours ago, Chen G. said: Not to mention over-compensating in terms of seeing leitmotives anywhere. Its just a little piccolo figure: It doesn't represent anything. I never said it was an official motif that JW specifically composed to represent anything... if you actually read my post, you would know that I personally just like to think of the piece as an unofficial theme of sorts. 20 hours ago, gkgyver said: Perfect example of how JW/SW fans colour their world to fit a picture that was never intended, just so they don't have to admit that something was simply lazily scored. Dude, just leave. Literally everything you post is condescending and rude. You should be glad to know that you are shunned and disliked by a sizable percentage of JWFAN. Taikomochi, Remco and crumbs 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 He doesn't care, he never did. His soul is dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,641 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 But has anybody ever tried being nice to him?? Maybe that would make him go away! crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,091 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 I'm hereby unfollowing this thread. John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p0llux 400 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 I don't mind him. He's like the rude sibling in the family. We keep him around because he's part of the family. We need that balance here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Remco 685 Posted January 7, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 7, 2018 12 hours ago, Chen G. said: Fixed. Really, I wouldn't mind it so much if this wasn't coming from a composer who always tried so carefully (and succeed) in crafting scores that were each based on predominantly on new thematic material. For him to abandon (yes, abandon) that way of work in the eighth score is understandable, but disappointing nonetheless. I suppose one can make excuses for it, but that's what they'll always be - excuses. At the very least, we can agree its nowhere near top-tier Williams. How many times have you posted this message in all of the TLJ threads and have you actually read some of the excellent replies to the same thing about 2 pages before this? I have to say that I had been looking forward so much to share the joy of discovering this score with everyone, however I've been avoiding the TLJ threads lately because I don't like to be reminded again and again with non-arguments and contradictions why I should *not* like the score as much as I would maybe like to. Even if the score may not be top-tier Williams (but who gives a damn at this point in his career!), I - and I guess like many others - am simply happy to have this score and have been enjoying it for the past few weeks. Why does that bother you so much? Docteur Qui, crumbs, John and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balahkay 627 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 TFA and TLJ don't live up the OT scores but they're both still excellent. Williams' golden years of film scoring are long over and we'll never hear an OT style score from him. However, that doesn't mean his recent output is any less special. Film making in general (particularly blockbusters) and Williams' style have evolved quite a bit within the last 40 years. I hope his music is continuing to inspire this generation much like he did every decade since the 70s. crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 TLJ is closer to OT style than any of the Prequels and TFA Fathiers could have been an Indiana Jones cue John and crumbs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artguy360 1,844 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 TFA is very much in the style of the OT to me including the use of brass, the approach to scoring action scenes, the multitude of very direct leitmotifs, and the sound in general including the orchestrations and colors. crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,319 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 TFA feels more like an OT throwback whereas TLJ feels more in line with the prequels. It's pretty fun, like all the other scores were thrown in a blender and turned into something new. I still think the complete score holds many discoveries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 We all knew that TLJ would have to take a different direction and the way the film is paced means it's almost entirely scored action-heavy when we aren't on Ach-To. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crlbrg 381 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 On 1/6/2018 at 2:42 AM, igger6 said: On second thought, I misused the word "grandfathered" and forced into the form of a disingenuous question what should have been a simple criticism of that lift. As someone on the SoundCast said recently, that flute line felt like a part of ANH, and it didn't seem right to suddenly quote it at the opening of the eighth film when there was no precedent for callbacks in that spot. ("Gotcha!" —Rian Johnson) If this were the final film (as Johnson occasionally seemed to think he was writing), it would have been awesome, but sticking it in randomly in the middle of the saga didn't make sense to me. Also, I haven't read every single page of the discussion, but has anyone pointed out that there's just enough original, memorable melodic material in "The Fathiers" for it to qualify as a one-off setpiece a la "Into the Trap" or "TIE Fighter Attack"? I'd love to see that expanded into a TLJ concert suite, and I don't think it would take much doing. I. The Rebellion is Reborn II. Canto Bight III. The Fathiers (Concert Version) IV. The Spark/The Last Jedi (Concert Version) We can dream! If only! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,319 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Oh... my... god... it's been staring me straight in the face for weeks now. The choir is singing Rey's Theme here! Can't believe I didn't pick up on this sooner! Especially seeing as I spent two years bitching about the lack of choir in TFA. Balahkay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taikomochi 1,136 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 I have a very hard time hearing that, but I guess I can vaguely hear it towards the end of that section before the strings take over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,319 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Listen carefully to the strained and slowed down strings here: It's a variation on this, closing with the same cadence as the opening bars of Rey's Theme (though in another key or something?): Once you pick that up it unlocks the rest. It's not note-for-note but it's clearly derived from Rey's Theme. Pretty confident the choir preceding it is the opening bar of Rey's Theme with an extra note towards the end (before the strings take over). Jurassic Shark and Taikomochi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,532 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 So far, I've heard the Starkiller motif in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,897 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 I hear Lament at the end. Obviously was the temp track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,950 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 By that you mean the lamentation material from Revenge of the Sith? That's definitely Johnson's temp-track showing right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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