bollemanneke 3,349 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 19 hours ago, Bryant Burnette said: Jesus Christ, now's there's an anti-Thor...? I don't want to make space for OSTs on my shelves, that's all. Why would I even play those if I'm bound to be happier with expansions? Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,080 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Just now, bollemanneke said: I don't want to make space for OSTs on my shelves, that's all. Why would I even play those if I'm bound to be happier with expansions? When reaching a certain amount of CDs, space is indeed something one has to take into consideration. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,349 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Indeed. I'm currently going through loads of old classical ones I had as a kid and will be glad to bring them all to a second-hand shop soon, we've got harddisk now. Also, I am not a fan of this argument that OSTs are what the composers want you to have. I'd rather decide what I want to have for myself, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 So John Williams should not get to decide what music he puts out on CD? Even though he composed it? Thats a very interesting viewpoint to have. Miguel Andrade 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,080 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 3 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: Also, I am not a fan of this argument that OSTs are what the composers want you to have. I'd rather decide what I want to have for myself, thanks. I think sometimes, the OST is how the composer wants to present the music. But that doesn't mean he chooses to include the same cues as the listener would have preferred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bollemanneke 3,349 Posted February 11, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 11, 2018 Yes, but why is it important what the composer wants? What I mean is, the only reason I like James Horner's Titanic, for instance, is because I watched the movie. I didn't browse in a shop and went: Hmm, now what would Titanic by this Horner guy sound like? I listen to film music because I liked it in the film and that immediately comes with expectations and a personal wishlist for a personal album. It is not up to Williams to tell me I can't have Rescueing Sirius. Pieter Boelen, Jurassic Shark and Molly Weasley 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 7 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: Yes, but why is it important what the composer wants? Seriously? Do you mean that? Miguel Andrade and Bryant Burnette 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 11 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: Yes, but why is it important what the composer wants? What I mean is, the only reason I like James Horner's Titanic, for instance, is because I watched the movie. I didn't browse in a shop and went: Hmm, now what would Titanic by this Horner guy sound like? I listen to film music because I liked it in the film and that immediately comes with expectations and a personal wishlist for a personal album. It is not up to Williams to tell me I can't have Rescueing Sirius. But Titanic is a case where a lot of music wasn't presented properly or at all in the movie. So do you just skip that stuff and stick with what you heard in the movie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Some people only want the music as it was presented to them in the film. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Some people zealously insist on every last scrappy bit of music presented, regardless of whether it fits the composer's intended musical narrative on album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post filmmusic 1,837 Posted February 11, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 11, 2018 9 minutes ago, Denise Bryson said: Some people zealously insist on every last scrappy bit of music presented, regardless of whether it fits the composer's intended musical narrative on album. what if we don't want the album musical narrative (which mostly is for the masses), but the film musical narrative?! Jurassic Shark, bollemanneke and Smaug The Iron 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 11, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 11, 2018 Too bad, the composer cares about his work, and wishes it to exist as a separate entity from the film. Sometimes that means axing bits and rearranging other bits to reflect the composer's idea of a concert presentation of their creation. Jurassic Shark, Miguel Andrade and MikeH 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,837 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, Denise Bryson said: Too bad, the composer cares about his work, and wishes it to exist as a separate entity from the film. a complete score presentation doesn't meant it can't exist as a separate entity from the film. That is, when it's interesting musically enough, like in the case of Williams. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Yeah and how do we handle the alternates in Titanic if following the narrative of the film? There are numerous versions, in some cases edited in the movie. I'd rather it make sense as a listening experience rather than follow the order of scenes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Musically interesting maybe, but does it always flow as a whole? Not necessarily. So Williams decides to exclude moments he feels detract from the listening experience, even if they were really good in insolation. It's his right as an album producer. Miguel Andrade 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Holko 9,529 Posted February 11, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 11, 2018 Both groups should coexist (or overlap in a lot of cases) and be satisfied: those who want to get the composer's mangled mess preferred presentation, and those who want to see how every bit of the puzzle was intended to fit together by the same composer for its actual primary purpose. It's just that one group gets theirs immediately, while the others have to wait for decades in most cases. filmmusic, Molly Weasley and Smaug The Iron 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,837 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 we have to take into account also that many times it's the target audience that defines the way in which the film score will be rearranged. eg. i have written the score of E.T. I want to sell my music to the average Joe. Of course I will cut all the atonal bits and pieces that will probably bore him to death. But do i want to really? Do i think that these cues are of lesser quality than the rest of my music, or don't fit there or don't flow well with the rest of the score? I personally find the musical arc of the score much more pleasing and complete, in its expanded presentation. And much more diverse too. Holko and Smaug The Iron 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,349 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 No, it's not his right at all. Why pretend that these are stand-alone albums? They're not. I'm not asking for the preservation of film micro-edits here, but ommitting music is just wrong. If I'm expected to buy albums, they should be to my liking, not to the composer's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Why shouldn't "average joe" have the opportunity to have a great film score more catered to him? Why must such snobbery persist in the 24th century? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,837 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 The average Joe can take the complete album, and cut whatever he likes, and rearrange the cues however he likes. But the rest of us can't listen to the cues we like with an album presentation. Maybe like Holko said, the best would be to present both options simultaneously. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Just now, filmmusic said: The average Joe can take the complete album, and cut whatever he likes, and rearrange the cues however he likes. But the rest of us can't listen to the cues we like with an album presentation. But Average Joe isn't an album producer (neither are any of us here really). He's not qualified to make those decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,837 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Isn't this snobbish towards the average Joe's capabilities? bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 None of us are capable. We're not qualified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 never mind, misread the posts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 We all get his expanded scores and at some point think "gehhh, now I get why he cut that bit out". bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post King Mark 3,631 Posted February 11, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 11, 2018 that never happens .I'd rather have all the music in all cases aj_vader, filmmusic, Molly Weasley and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Moot. We only get C&C, anyway, so why bother? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, king mark said: that never happens .I'd rather have all the music in all cases Happens to me a fair bit. Like in A.I., I go back to just listening to the OST now because that 3-CD set is just too damn long. And I think we have all the HP music we need. Nothing significant missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post filmmusic 1,837 Posted February 11, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 11, 2018 Specifically I think A.I is the worst Williams ost ever. Noone compels you to listen to the 3cd presentation from start to finish. Just pick the cues you like. That presentation gives you the right! Jurassic Shark, crumbs and publicist 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 But you are supposed to edit these monsters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryant Burnette 654 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 46 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: No, it's not his right at all. Why pretend that these are stand-alone albums? They're not. I'm not asking for the preservation of film micro-edits here, but ommitting music is just wrong. If I'm expected to buy albums, they should be to my liking, not to the composer's. Write your own film scores, then you won't have to worry about it at all. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,349 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 And how many Average Joe's are there anyway when it comes to OSTs? More than people like us? I find that hard to imagine in the case of most films. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Remember the 5 D's of dodgeball: Dodge, duck, dip, dive and dodge. 2 hours ago, bollemanneke said: No, it's not his right at all. Why pretend that these are stand-alone albums? They're not. I'm not asking for the preservation of film micro-edits here, but ommitting music is just wrong. If I'm expected to buy albums, they should be to my liking, not to the composer's. I almost agree with you, but when it comes to a marketable product that takes into account listening experience and narrative etc. the producers, label and composer need to find the right middle ground to include a bit of both. The latest LLL Williams expansions are good examples of presenting a fuller score, and a curated listening experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,349 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Oh I am all for listening experience, but the concept of deleting cues for the sake of it is just illogical to me. We don't buy 50% of books either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryant Burnette 654 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 I prefer that both composer-curated albums AND complete-score versions be available. Not all listeners care about hearing 100% of the music; some do. Why not cater to both? Weird to suggest that a composer shouldn't be able to do as they see fit, though. Nobody has any right to that music if they don't want people to hear it. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rough cut 1,714 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Personal preference is irrelevant. I get that some consumers prefer to have all the full exits and alternate recordings... but composing music is an art... it’s the composer’s privilege to release it as he sees fit. What the fans would prefer is not, perhaps, first priority. I mean, why are you a fan in the first place? Because of the composer’s way of composing, that’s why. So let the composer compose. And let him decide what to listen to. Well said by @Bryant Burnette I agree. Bryant Burnette 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post filmmusic 1,837 Posted February 11, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 11, 2018 23 minutes ago, Bryant Burnette said: Weird to suggest that a composer shouldn't be able to do as they see fit, though. Nobody has any right to that music if they don't want people to hear it. well, those original albums.. they're not most of the times 100% the outcome of the composer's sole decision you know... there are many factors: 1) the medium (LP , 1cd, 2 cds) 2) the producer(s) 3) the target audience and I don't know what else.. Bryant Burnette, Jurassic Shark and Holko 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 5 hours ago, Denise Bryson said: Musically interesting maybe, but does it always flow as a whole? Not necessarily. So Williams decides to exclude moments he feels detract from the listening experience, even if they were really good in insolation. It's his right as an album producer. If he needs to exclude moments that detract from the listening experience, shouldn't he have done a better Job as a composer? Holko 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,080 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 As the music wasn't composed as a standalone work, it's natural that some editing and trimming is needed to best present it outside of the film. It has nothing to do with quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,837 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 5 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: As the music wasn't composed as a standalone work, it's natural that some editing and trimming is needed to best present it outside of the film. It has nothing to do with quality. Some editing and trimming to cutting down half of the score (like in the original album of E.T.) is a big difference. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 I agree, but some OSTs are too shitty to be called a good listening experience. The Alien OST and the A.I. OST, for example. What were the composers thinking, when they created these "listening experiences"? Besides it also depends on personal preferences as well as the score itself. The Lost World, for example, works perfectly as a C&C, but Deep Rising... meh... Jurassic Shark and filmmusic 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,837 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Had a talk at FSM and remembered 1492 by Vangelis. The album is missing some film cues I'd really like to have! Why the composer should tell me what I should like and not leave it to my judgement? Another example: Beauty and the Beast ost. Huge disappointment with the few score cues on that album. Fortunately the legacy edition came after all these years, to remedy that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Brundlefly said: I agree, but some OSTs are too shitty to be called a good listening experience. The Alien OST and the A.I. OST, for example. What were the composers thinking, when they created these "listening experiences"? Alien? Seriously? That OST blows the C&C out the goddamn airlock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 The Alien OST is superior to the complete score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Precisely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 WTF?! The order of the cues doesn't make sense. Hanging On is split up in two tracks. Some bad edits, like in Facehuggers. The egg theme is not present. Neither of the cat cues are present. The dramaturgic build-up is lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 You're just listening to it the wrong way. Forget about the film while listening to it. Gruesome Son of a Bitch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 It's okay, I guess. But it's still inferior to the well-working C&C. And the edits are still bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 The C&C is fine for archival purposes, but for serious listening, Goldsmith arranged his score for album with precise care and thought. He knew what he was doing. And I don't even notice any of the edits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 You do not notice the edit in Facehuggers? Nevermind, why does @Jay not comment on anything here? I assume he knows a lot about what we will get this year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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