Anyone here succumbed to 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray?

[rough cut 1,714]

5 hours ago, filmmusic said:

I hate it when they "fix" errors for the UHD releases

 

I would say that I’m against it on principle, but it’s a hit and miss deal with these fixes.

 

The two CE3K examples were a good example of this. The first, long distance shot of The Devil’s Tower looks better untouched. Fake, sure, but that blue light coming up behind the mountain is sweet and should’ve been kept in. The second doesn’t contain any manor changes, just makes the lighting look a bit more realistic.

 

So some changes I don’t mind (blasphemy!) but of course it’d be nice if the original version was an option to watch as well.

[Nick1Ø66 4,718]

On 5/5/2023 at 4:55 PM, Jay said:

I dunno about that, but I will see every film JW ever scored.  For now, there's still a whopping 45 I have not seen yet!

 

1. 1958    Daddy-O
2. 1960    I Passed For White
3. 1960    Because They're Young
4. 1961    The Secret Ways
5. 1961    Bachelor Flat
6. 1962    Diamond Head
7. 1963    Gidget Goes To Rome
8. 1964    The Killers
9. 1965    None But The Brave
10. 1965    John Goldfarb, Please Come Home
11. 1966    The Rare Breed
12. 1966    The Plainsman
13. 1966    Not With My Wife, You Don’t!
14. 1966    Penelope
15. 1967    A Guide for the Married Man
16. 1967    Valley of the Dolls
17. 1967    Fitzwilly
18. 1968    Heidi
19. 1969    Daddy’s Gone A-Hunting
20. 1969    Goodbye, Mr. Chips
21. 1969    The Reivers
22. 1970    Story of a Woman
23. 1970    Jane Eyre
24. 1972    Pete N Tillie
25. 1972    The Cowboys
26. 1972    The Poseidon Adventure
27. 1973    Tom Sawyer
28. 1973    The Man Who Loved Cat Dancing
29. 1973    The Paper Chase
30. 1973    Cinderella Liberty
31. 1974    Conrack
32. 1974    Earthquake
33. 1974    The Towering Inferno
34. 1976    Family Plot
35. 1976    The Missouri Breaks
36. 1976    Midway
37. 1977    Black Sunday
38. 1978    Jaws 2
39. 1981    Heartbeeps
40. 1982    Monsignor
41. 1989    Born On The Fourth of July
42. 1995    Nixon
43. 1997    Seven Years In Tibet
44. 1998    Stepmom
45. 1999    Angela's Ashes

 

Wow.  Take a break from bingeing TV and catch up on some of these films Jay!

 

Seven Years in Tibet is one of my all-time favourites. Incredible true story with as you know an amazing score. Love this film. Based on a great book.

 

Paperchase is quite good as well. Though as an attorney, I'm partial to the story. Stellar performance by John Houseman. Another film based on a great book.

 

The best thing I can say about Jaws 2 (other than the score) is that it's not Jaws 3 or Jaws 4.  Not great, but the only watchable Jaws sequel.  Not based on a great book.

 

 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,547]

"You come in here with a head full of mush...and you leave thinking like a lawyer".

 

A great line, and a much-deserved Academy Award, to boot.

[Bayesian 1,363]

On 5/5/2023 at 8:55 AM, Jay said:

I dunno about that, but I will see every film JW ever scored.  For now, there's still a whopping 45 I have not seen yet!

 

1. 1958    Daddy-O
2. 1960    I Passed For White
3. 1960    Because They're Young
4. 1961    The Secret Ways
5. 1961    Bachelor Flat
6. 1962    Diamond Head
7. 1963    Gidget Goes To Rome
8. 1964    The Killers
9. 1965    None But The Brave
10. 1965    John Goldfarb, Please Come Home
11. 1966    The Rare Breed
12. 1966    The Plainsman
13. 1966    Not With My Wife, You Don’t!
14. 1966    Penelope
15. 1967    A Guide for the Married Man
16. 1967    Valley of the Dolls
17. 1967    Fitzwilly
18. 1968    Heidi
19. 1969    Daddy’s Gone A-Hunting
20. 1969    Goodbye, Mr. Chips
21. 1969    The Reivers
22. 1970    Story of a Woman
23. 1970    Jane Eyre
24. 1972    Pete N Tillie
25. 1972    The Cowboys
26. 1972    The Poseidon Adventure
27. 1973    Tom Sawyer
28. 1973    The Man Who Loved Cat Dancing
29. 1973    The Paper Chase
30. 1973    Cinderella Liberty
31. 1974    Conrack
32. 1974    Earthquake
33. 1974    The Towering Inferno
34. 1976    Family Plot
35. 1976    The Missouri Breaks
36. 1976    Midway
37. 1977    Black Sunday
38. 1978    Jaws 2
39. 1981    Heartbeeps
40. 1982    Monsignor
41. 1989    Born On The Fourth of July
42. 1995    Nixon
43. 1997    Seven Years In Tibet
44. 1998    Stepmom
45. 1999    Angela's Ashes

Nixon is an absolute must-see. It’s a goddamn operatic tour de force by an A-list cast (Paul Sorvino as Kissinger was incredible). Oliver Stone in the 90s brought out the Greek tragedy in JW like no one else. God, how I pine for an expanded Nixon soundtrack.

[Jay 37,369]

It's very likely I'll see that 5 most recent films on that list before most of the others

[Naïve Old Fart 9,547]

1 hour ago, Bayesian said:

Nixon is an absolute must-see. It’s a goddamn operatic tour de force by an A-list cast (Paul Sorvino as Kissinger was incredible). Oliver Stone in the 90s brought out the Greek tragedy in JW like no one else. God, how I pine for an expanded Nixon soundtrack.

 

"You do realise, don't you? We're next".

 

"If I was to open my mouth all the dominoes would fall".

 

"She's in Bellevue".

"This time, maybe she'll stay there".

 

"Cocksucker!".

 

There's some great lines, in this.

I've always wondered if the "doorknob" scene was scripted, or an ad-lib.

[crocodile 8,017]

Nixon is an intriguing one. I am not altogether sure whether it is a good film but, at the very least, it is interesting.

 

Karol

[Bayesian 1,363]

31 minutes ago, crocodile said:

Nixon is an intriguing one. I am not altogether sure whether it is a good film but, at the very least, it is interesting.

 

Karol

You’re correct, it’s not a good film. It’s a fucking great film.

 

It’s the kind of film that could so easily have been overacted, so baroque is the soapy script (much like JFK, but less paranoid). It might be the soapiness of the script that keeps people from recognizing the brilliance of the movie, but every last actor tackles his/her material with such conviction that you’re spellbound. 
 

For example: 

 

They don’t make ‘em like they used to. Not even Stone himself, after this one.

[A24 4,340]

I was disappointed with Nixon (movie and score). Don't remember why (it's been ages ago and I only saw it once) but I'm not really an Oliver Stone fanatic.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

20 hours ago, Jay said:

It's very likely I'll see that 5 most recent films on that list before most of the others

Heartbeeps needs to be your priority. 

[Jay 37,369]

How so?

[Jurassic Shark 12,080]

A joke?

[Tallguy 3,401]

53 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

A joke?

 

Is a story with a humorous climax.

[Nick1Ø66 4,718]

2 hours ago, Tallguy said:

 

Is a story with a humorous climax.

 

 

 

 

[rough cut 1,714]

So, regarding that awful Jaws 2 cover, it seems they put that particular POV in a scene in Meg 2.

 

It makes an already bad looking film look even less serious.

 

 

It’s in the trailer:

 

[filmmusic 1,837]

 

More about the contents of both releases, here:

https://www.hometheaterforum.com/community/threads/bvhe-press-release-avatar-the-way-of-water-4k-uhd-3d-blu-ray-blu-ray-and-avatar-4k-uhd-blu-ray.379434/

Still don't know what to do with my collector's edition blu-ray of Avatar.

Do I sell or not?

Will I want to see the movie again now that I've changed tastes and can't stand continuous CGI?

Decisions...

[Naïve Old Fart 9,547]

"Ultimate"...until the next release, just in time for Christmas 

[filmmusic 1,837]

48 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

"Ultimate"...until the next release, just in time for Christmas 

Yeah.. They will milk this thing forever with the films that will keep coming in the theater.

And still no Abyss and True Lies! 

(at least there is that 35mm scan of the later. That serves them right, if they don't want to release it!)

[filmmusic 1,837]

 

A favorite film of mine!

I had never thought it will be released on 4k, and now I have to sell my blu-ray.

(unless the release, or restoration or whatever it is, is plagued by teal and yellow like Red Sonja and King Kong (1976), so I won't buy it)

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I ordered the Avatar Way of the Water Best Buy steel Book

Have John Wick Ad Nauseum ordered too.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,547]

26 minutes ago, JoeinAR said:

John Wick Ad Nauseum

 

[JoeinAR 1,949]

5 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

 

They are all the same.

But once a year Dave and I eat at a 

Brazilian steakhouse, the meal is essentially the same but doing it every year or every other year is always a wonderful experience, that's how I feel about John wicks.

[filmmusic 1,837]

8 hours ago, JoeinAR said:

I ordered the Avatar Way of the Water Best Buy steel Book

Have John Wick Ad Nauseum ordered too.

What about the first Avatar?

[JoeinAR 1,949]

1 hour ago, filmmusic said:

What about the first Avatar?

It's being ordered for me as a gift. since there's no steelbook version I'm not as picky as to which one I want as to which one I want

[Jay 37,369]

Seven is coming to 4K

 

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/david-fincher-seven-4k-remastering-1235517180/

[filmmusic 1,837]

Coming soon on 4k from Kino!

 

It's been more than 15 years since I last saw this film, but I remember loving it.

[A24 4,340]

Very rewatchable too. 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,547]

On 30/05/2023 at 9:44 PM, JoeinAR said:

They are all the same.

But once a year Dave and I eat at a 

Brazilian steakhouse, the meal is essentially the same but doing it every year or every other year is always a wonderful experience, that's how I feel about John wicks.

 

I can honestly say that I have not seen any of them.

I did stumble across a clip of one of them, where some Chinese dude gets slowly stabbed in the eye. Ouch!

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I got my steel case Avatar Way of the Water on Saturday

I will look at it later

[Naïve Old Fart 9,547]

You'll look at a steel case, later?

There's not much to see, just pictures and writing.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

14 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

You'll look at a steel case, later?

There's not much to see, just pictures and writing.

We all have preferences. I have many steel case 4k sets. Hell I don't need any of these.

[PokeDocMatt 57]

I picked up 4k Avatar 1 and 2 for my home theater room. Started 1 tonight. I’m impressed at how well it has aged, from a technical/visual standpoint. There are so many gorgeous shots, it makes me wish Cameron would have lingered on them longer. Dolby atmos is enthralling from the first few seconds. Horner’s score is still goosebump inducing. When Jake first transfers to his Avatar and is running, I feel it with him, the new world that’s just been opened up to him. The score makes this Wizard of Oz esque about face, from black and white milataristic hopelessness, to full color audio, organic and full of life. 
 

I can’t wait to watch Way of Water again. My first viewing at my rural, crappy, under-maintained theater was a let down. I’m sure the experience will be better at home. I think  Tom Cruise would even understand if he saw what I had to put up with at the local cinema… 

[1977 1,743]

Moved to correct thread

 

 

 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,547]

Whoa!

@JTWfan77, that's a spicy meatball!!! 

[filmmusic 1,837]

15 minutes ago, JTWfan77 said:

wrong thread?

Shouldn't this post be in the recently purchased movies thread?

[1977 1,743]

4 hours ago, filmmusic said:

wrong thread?

Shouldn't this post be in the recently purchased movies thread?

 

Oh LOL I am losing it completely

[rough cut 1,714]

Am I the only one who thinks this looks like a good set?
 

Release date: October.

 

 

[Jay 37,369]

It's missing Suicide Squad, Birds of Prey, The Suicide Squad, Blue Beetle, and Aquaman 2.

[rough cut 1,714]

…and Batgirl. 
 

My God, were there really three Suicide Squad movies?

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,433]

And they became better each time from bad to good

[Naïve Old Fart 9,547]

Is that ZS's JUSTICE LEAGUE, or the normal one?

[Jay 37,369]

theatrical cut

[filmmusic 1,837]

Arrow's September releases, include UHDs of Carlito's Way, Ringu (which I will buy) and Psycho collection.

I haven't seen Psycho 2-4. Are they worth it?

 

[Jay 37,369]

6 hours ago, filmmusic said:

I haven't seen Psycho 2-4. Are they worth it?

 

No. 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,547]

PSYCHO II is a decent sequel, with a good Jerry score. I'll watch anything that has Dennis Franz.

I've not seen the others.

[Andy 4,138]

I saw the third one in the theater. All I can remember is Norman eating peanut butter with the same spoon he’d been using to taxidermy a bird. 
 

I watched the second one less than two years ago and I’ll be darned if I can remember a thing about it. But I bought the Goldsmith CD. 

[Brando 1,864]

8 minutes ago, Andy said:

Norman eating peanut butter with the same spoon he’d been using to taxidermy a bird. 

Oh…..alrighty…..

[1977 1,743]

On 01/07/2023 at 12:48 AM, Andy said:

I saw the third one in the theater.

 

It has a really cool poster.

[filmmusic 1,837]

24 minutes ago, JTWfan77 said:

 

It has a really cool poster.

this?

[rough cut 1,714]

I've been doing some research into the cinematic sound of Superman The Movie. I got curious after our discussion here on JWfan regarding the missing DD 5.1 mix which was replaced with a DTS-HD MA 2.0 on seemingly all 4K discs of the movie.

 

In this post I’ll try to answer the following:

 

• What was the ”actual” theatrical sound mix in 1978?
• Why was a new SFX/foley soundtrack mix created in 2001?
• What were the reactions to the new mix in 2001?
• What were the reactions to the 1978 5.1 split surround when it was released on 4K in 2018?
• Why did WB ultimately remove the 1978 5.1 split surround?  

 

First to try to understand what was the "actually" theatrical sound mix? That question has multiple answers.

 

Superman The Movie was recorded in Dolby Stereo, but a lot of theaters were still showing movies in mono. Whether or not it played in stereo or mono was entirely based on the theatre that was showing it and which sound equipment they had. Since Dolby Stereo - a newly released standard - was "backwards compatible" it was common for theatres to show a print with mono sound - even though it came with the Dolby Stereo soundtrack.

 

Most common was that the movie was and shown in 35mm with a Dolby Stereo mix which was 4 channel:

• Left, Right, Center, Mono surround

As far as I understand, Dolby surround in the theatres back in the late 70's were 4.2, meaning:

• Left, Right, Center, Mono surround, LFE1 and LFE2

 

It seems safe to assume that most theatregoers experienced it in a very humble stereo/mono setting, as surround sound was still under development. And I think it should be noted that even a 4.2 setup was rare.

 

Local695, the the official labor union for Production Sound Technicians, Television Engineers, Video Assist Technicians and Studio Projectionists in film and television, notes that in December 1978, when Superman The Movie opened, there were only 200 theatres in the U.S. equipped for Dolby Stereo:

 

Quote

When Star Wars opened in May of 1977, there were only 46 theaters in the U.S. equipped for Dolby Stereo. By the time Richard Donner’s Superman opened in December of 1978, there were 200 theaters.

 

For Superman The Movie, Dolby decided to do a test with more channels, a "test mix", where the idea was to split the mono surround into stereo. It's commonly known as the "split-surround" format.

 

According to a post on Blu-ray Forum, these were the different mixes:

 

Quote

The 70mm 5.1 on the prior UHD was the master six-track mag tape held by the studio. It's considered an original mix, but only used for very limited 70mm screenings (hence the term "test mix" everyone throws around) and is different than the six-track used for wider 70mm runs. To clarify the reports of actual "70mm prints being mono surround with 2 LFE channels", another six-track mix was made for wider runs of Supes that is similar to the mag tape master, but the rears being mono and/or with 2 LFE channels for purposes of backwards compatibility for theaters that didn't have the equipment to properly play back split surrounds. 

 

Most 70mm six-track mixes of this era were derived from the 4-track master mixes and ether only had duped mono surrounds or one mono surround and 2 LFE channels (4.2). 

 

The 35mm Dolby Stereo mix is 4 channel LRCS and backwards compatible, but not the same mix as the wide release 70mm six-track with mono surround. The DS mix was made from different (possibly mono based) M/D/E stems than the six track was, which can explain the channel bleedthrough and phasing issues that particular mix has.

 

Like most films of the era, there's also the mono mix made for general release and venues without DS. Its not exactly a fold down of anything else but a unique mix created from mono M/D/E stems (same as the foreign dubs and what was upmixed for the 35mm DS).

 

So how many theatres played the "test mix"? Not many, according to a site called in70mm:

 

Quote

It should be noted that other than the Northpoint in San Francisco it is undetermined which cinema(s) during first-run release actually played “Superman” in a split-surround presentation since (1) the split-surround aspect of the presentation was considered a test and not promoted, and (2) the split-surround decoding equipment had not yet been made available

 

The "test mix" might also have been available at one more theatre, the Northpoint Theatre in San Francisco, according to this fan site of the Grauman Chinese Theatre in Hollywood. (This site also has a fantastic breakdown on the history of surround sound and how the technology worked .)

 

Quote

The Dolby folks set up Format 43 at the Northpoint Theatre in San Francisco, not far from their home office, and supposedly did the same for the AMPAS Samuel Goldwyn Theatre in Beverly Hills for the Oscar screenings 

Sound engineer Gordon McCallum (Oscar winner for best sound for Fiddler on the Roof, 1971) who worked on Superman The Movie, is quoted as saying:

 

Quote

"And so we did 'Superman I' in that way, with divided surround, Dolby encoded stuff, which was a marvellous track, we were nominated for that. But nobody ever heard it that way, simply because, as ever, by the time all the special effects had been shot and so on, and the labs were working, like it has to be ready last week, you know."

"And they were not able to produce the 70mm track prints for all the main openings, which of course is - that's where the 70mm prints were needed. So it went out for Dolby stereo two-track and I think there were four-track in some places. And my beautiful divided surround - and I was the first one ever to use that, and we worked it out between Dolby's Max Bell[?] and ourselves at Pinewood, to give me that facility - my track was never heard in that form."

 

So to clarify:

• The elusive DD 5.1 mix on the 2018 disc is the "test mix", that was basically only played in one theatre (maybe two).
• The 4-track surround mix was played with the 70mm, but since the 70mm had very limited showings, it can’t be considered the “average” theatrical experience. According to The Digital Bits, there were 27 theaters in all of U.S. who were showing the 70mm and thus the 4-track. According to in70mm there were 30.

 

The Digital Bits sums it up nicely:

 

Quote

And, finally, it should be noted that, as a test, a select few of these 70mm presentations were played back in a special split-surround format. The split surround format, in terms of channel layout, was the precursor to the modern-day 5.1 format. These presentations were considered a test and thus the split-surround component of the presentation was not promoted.

 

Decades later, however, the lack of documentation and promotion has prevented historians and interested parties from determining precisely which venues presented Superman in the split-surround format. (The split-surround decoding equipment had not yet been made available; a prototype of the SA-5 surround adapter for use with the Dolby CP100 was manufactured for the venues in which the test presentations were held. The split-surround format was officially introduced in 1979 with Apocalypse Now.)

 

Whatever slim chance there was of hearing Superman The Movie in surround in the cinema, fans who missed out would have to wait for their chance until 2001, when Superman The Movie Special Edition was released on DVD with discrete 5.1 surround sound, sporting a brand new mix with revised SFX and foley.

 

The new 5.1 remix was dony by Michael Thau and came to be due to the fact that he and Donner weren't happy with how the original mix sounded while preparing the movie for DVD.

 

A general opinon that the 1978 mix was underwhelming took hold around this time, and Thau's mix have generally been favoured over the theatrical mix.

 

Reading some reviews from 2001, there was some pushback regarding the revisionistic approach, but not much. Reviewers were more eager to praise the new sound effects rather than to lament the loss of the original ones. Home theatre sound was still an emerging technology/market and reviewers were excited just to hear Superman in discrete surround sound:
 

Quote

The Digital Bits: The newly-remixed Dolby Digital 5.1 audio actually manages to one-up the video. I can't tell you how cool it is to hear the opening percussion in John Williams' amazing score building as the titles fly in from behind you in full 5.1 sound. And when that big red "S" crashes onto the screen, my subwoofer rumbled but good. This audio may not be quite as good as the best 5.1 tracks on DVD, but it's going to blow fans of the film away. The sound stage is big and wide, with very active surrounds, plenty of nifty directional effects and lots of deep rumbling bass. The result is a completely encompassing audio experience. Listen, for example, to the subtle ambience in chapter 14, as Jor-El is tutoring young Clark in the Fortress of Solitude. Very nice. Source

 

IGN: Beautiful. An aggressive 5.1 surround mix that really involves you in the action. John William's classic score has never sounded this good. I cranked this sucker up and really annoyed my roommates, and it was just great. Source

 

BBC: The new 5.1 sound mix for this DVD is a masterpiece. The opening credits will have you rooted to the spot as the titles swoop through the room, and the sub-woofer explodes with tremendous force at the various visual highlights that open this film. Simply in terms of sound and picture quality, this DVD is a winner as it has restored "Superman" into an 'event' movie. No matter how many times you've seen the film on TV, this disc will really thrill you. Source

 

DVD File: Even with the new effects, this is still Superman: The Movie, only augmented and enhanced. The tone of the film remains intact. All involved have matched the new effects to much of the original track and, where appropriate, attempted to improve upon it. Again, the intent of the new remix was not to degrade the film but to enhance it. It's not like they took out the John Williams score and replaced it with a new one by Danny Elfman! I'm also on the side of this new recreation and remix for several other reasons. First, it just plain sounds better than the original. Comparing it to the older 2 channel track from the laserdisc, it's no contest. The original track is completely flat, without any of the punch that gives the new soundtrack so much life. Source

 

DVD.net.au: Restored with absolute reverence - but taking the opportunity to recreate most of the effects - this new mix is, to put it simply, absolutely incredible.

/---/

The newly recreated and mixed effects are perfectly, startlingly stunning as well. With very active surround activity and some serious subwoofer action in the opening half hour of the movie, this is undeniably demo material, yet is never excessive or tacky when it comes to the factor. Source

 

DVD Review: Apparently the original sound elements were either beyond repair, lost or unsuitable for the demands of a modern soundtrack. I, too, have mixed feelings about the film’s new sound. First, the hosannas. The 5.1 Dolby Digital audio just rocks! Combining newly added sound effects, restored music cues and punching up the LFE channel to sometimes window-shattering proportions, the soundtrack finally has the power that I only previously experienced in the theatre. The Dolby Surround PCM track on the laserdisc doesn’t even come close.

/---/

Yet I do have some reservations about the new sound. Frankly, it wasn’t the sound I grew up and loved over the years. When the "S" first blasted off the screen in 1978, the sound trailed into infinity. Now it slams like a vault door. The starship launch (Chapter 6) does not have the same immediacy as the original. For me, the heartbreaker on the new soundtrack is Clark’s goodbye to his adopted mother (Chapter 12). What made that scene so beautiful was not just the circular tracking shot of then embracing against a soft gray sky, but how the music melded with the sound of rustling wheat stalks. On the new soundtrack, the sound effect is only at the beginning of the music cue. I will miss that moment. Source

One wonders how much the lack of ability/effort to compare the two comes into play into the “glossing over” the loss of the original SFX? The 2001 DVD didn't come with the original theatrical mix, so any comparison would have to be done by syncing up the DVD with an old version of the movie on VHS or on Laserdisc (released in 1990). I suspect that revising sound doesn’t get as much criticism as revising video, simply because it is difficult to compare the old with the new.

 

But some consumers, as proven by this thread on AVS Forum, were less than happy not to be able to hear the original mix since the new mix not only added new SFX and new foley - some original foley was also "lost" (intentionally or not):

 

Quote

Ever thought you where good at listening to film soundtracks, well in the case of the 2001 Superman The Movie special edition there are countless shameful examples of how high tech workmanship and poor supervision of the authoring of its transfer.

 

• Perry White picks up the daily planet newspaper and tugs on it, but hold on, where's the sound? /---/
• Miss Tesmacher reads through the daily planet, then turns the page, but wait hold on, where's the sound? /---/
• When Superman takes Lex and Otis to the prison, just before the warden opens the doors to see what all the commotion is about, there is guard whistle heard in the front mix, but it's missing [in the new mix].

 

However, when the restored "test mix" was released in 2018 (the DD 5.1, on the 4K), reactions to the original mix were positive, especially considering they were reviewing a surround mix created 40 years ago(!):

 

Quote

The Digital Bits: The studio has also included a new 5.1 Dolby Digital mix that replicates the film’s original 6-track 70 mm theatrical audio experience, complete with split surrounds. This too offers lovely clarity, but it’s less aggressive and more subtle. The opening credits have the original whispering swoosh sound, that seems to slide in from overhead and from the sides rather than from behind. This is the default audio option when you play the disc. In both cases, Williams’ iconic score is presented with pleasing fidelity. Source

 

Sound and Vision: Somewhat surprisingly, the disc defaults to a high-bitrate Dolby Digital 5.1-channel presentation...which marks the home entertainment debut of the original 1978 theatrical six-track! Dolby's Ioan Allen once explained to me that this was the first 5.1-channel soundtrack (pre-dating even Apocalypse Now) as evidenced by its split left/right surrounds and directional dialogue. While it doesn't offer the whiz, crash, and boom of modern tracks, it is nonetheless an exhilarating and enveloping audio accompaniment. Source

 

AV Forums: The Dolby Digital track is, by contrast, a far softer affair; by that, I mean, it is nowhere near as aggressive in its placement of the effects, preferring to play on realism rather than immersion. This means that the credits swoop around and don’t hammer into you, while the car is being crushed you feel the pressure rather than being pummelled. Dialogue maintains its clear nature and is even more directed towards the front, while that magnificent score is given the same loving attention. Source

 

So if the original split surround - itself a precursor to the modern 5.1 standard - was good, then why remix it at all (and also add new SFX)? This sounds plausible:

 

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As for the remix, when Richard Donner and Michael Thau were preparing to make the Special Edition, they played Donner's personal print of the movie, and were surprised at how much the mix sounded like mono, so they decided to redo the sound. It's pretty obvious it was the 35mm mix they were listening to, which is known for sounding very poor /---/. If they had heard/used the 70mm mix, then we might not have gotten that remix in the first place.

 

...but is ultimately incorrect. It seems Thau just didn't have access to the stems, as stated in this interview:

 

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Going back to the original mix, we were shocked when we heard it. We grabbed the original 70mm full-coat that actually had the label from the Pinewood stage on it; it had a date of November 1978. We put it up in a dubbing stage. We had Dolby down there a couple times verifying that the set up on the Dolby units, the decoding, was correct. Superman was the first film that was originally recorded in a 70mm 6-track split surround but here's the rub that no one knows about but it's the truth. They mixed in split surrounds but they did not use the surrounds very much, especially in a stereo way because it was very new and they were very scared of it. At the last second, here in America, they brought it over to do some final mastering on the 70mm and they chickened out and the film was only released with mono surround in the 70mm format. So they mixed it for stereo surround, but it was never released that way and the fact is that there wasn't much difference anyway.

 

/---/

 

So, what came off the stage was the full mix or mono stems, which is one reason why we couldn't even reconstruct anything. We only had the mono stems.

 

An interesting sidenote is that Richard Donner, in an interview with IGN in 2001, stated that he never heard of - nor signed off on - recording any new effects for the Special Edition DVD.

 

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IGNFF: I wanted to ask you about the new sound mix, and what the difficulties were in creating it...

DONNER: There was no difficulty at all. The digital processing for sound is extraordinary, and it gave us no problem whatsoever.

IGNFF: Were there any difficulties in finding original sound elements?

DONNER: No, they just had to be cleaned and brought up to a contemporary standard – but we found everything.

IGNFF: There have been reports that the sound effects were recreated – that they are not the original sound effects.

DONNER: Let me just tell you something – if somebody did that and I don't know about it, I'm going to kill somebody. Michael would not have done that.

IGNFF: There have been numerous reports of sounds that people remember well being completely different in this new mix, from the rings rotating around the Kryptonian criminals to the searing sounds of the title sequence...

DONNER: Do you mean different sounds, or they were enhanced?

IGNFF: Different sounds...

DONNER: That doesn't make sense. I know we enhanced the sound, but I don't think we added any. I, quite honestly, did not hear the final mix. I heard the three run-throughs, and all we did was enhance sound.

IGNFF: People claim the new sounds sound completely dissimilar from the originals...

DONNER: God almighty.

IGNFF: Of course, in cleaning up the sound, it could be that people are confusing clean sound with new sound...

DONNER: That they could have been brought through...Or they were re-emphasized.

IGNFF: That's the only concerns I've heard – everyone enjoys the picture quality, but are disappointed by the remix. Sorry for bringing the points up.

DONNER: I'm glad you did this, so I'm not being blind-sided after this.

 

So did the 2001 remix come about because the 1978 mix was A) underwhelming, or B) that the correct stems weren't available? I suspect the latter. Whatever the reason, it's still curious to why WB decided to remove the six-track on disc and replace it with the stereo track?

 

Speculating, I can think of a couple of reasons:

 

1. The stereo track is simply more representative of how most people would have experienced the movie during its original run.
    
2. Possibly there's a UX reason behind it as well, which would be that flipping between Atmos and 2.0 offers a "bigger difference" than flipping between Atmos and DD 5.1. The former case would offer a more diverse experience (a greater difference between the options) and thus a greater value.
    
3. Since Superman II-IV all had an Atmos mix alongside its original mix in DTS 2.0 HD MA, maybe it was decided that Superman The movie also should have the same option - no more no less - making the set more homogoneous.
    
4. The last, and probably most likely reason why the DD 5.1 was taken off the 4K, is simply that WB wasn't licensed/authorized to release it in the first place - possibly because it was a "test mix" and not a fully realised "dolby mix" meant for a widespread relese. That would also explain why it has been silently lifted off the single disc reprints.

 

From a consumer point of view, of course, the best option would simply have been to put three audio options on the 4K from the beginning (and keep ‘em there): The 2001 remix in Atmos, the 1978 5.1 split surround, and the 1978 2.0 stereo.