Star Wars Disenchantment

[Manakin Skywalker 4,899]

And if the movie was already scored, then it would need to have already been edited (at least a rough cut) for John to be able to write anything cohesive, meaning that it would be finished completely by now. So they would have no reason whatsoever to sit on it for several more years.

 

Why am I engaging in this?

[Demodex 557]

Unless I missed it, I don't think he said it was scored. Just that it was already filmed. 

[greenturnedblue 372]

He told me all the excess discarded JW material from IX was actually material recorded in secret for X

[Manakin Skywalker 4,899]

Yep that's the one.

[Brónach 1,302]

12 hours ago, Mattris said:

Episodes IX was - and X will be - a literal scavenger hunt, with the protagonist searching for and finding clues, objects, people, and places in her quest to do (what she thinks is) the right thing.

 

Honestly I think that's just JJ Abrams.

 

However Uncharted 4, TROS isn't LOL

[Mattris 416]

14 hours ago, greenturnedblue said:

Because movies always have some sort of 'scavenger hunt' whether literal, metaphorical or figurative. Am I wrong?

 

Yes, you are wrong. Most movies do not have some sort of "scavenger hunt", a specific plot... as opposed to the general plot element of 'discovery'.

 

13 hours ago, Demodex said:

My prediction:  The new movie will actually take place 15 years after TROS. Rey will already be training Jedi at her new academy. 

(A movie about her finding Jedi would be pretty boring and repetitive.)

Then a threat from outside the galaxy shows up with the ability to destroy planets (it is SW afterall) and Rey and her Jedi have to figure out a way to stop it. 

 

Why do you think so much was revealed about this 'Rey movie'? How could Lucasfilm advantage themselves by announcing that it wasn't even done being written?

 

A new threat that Rey and gang are gonna try and stop? How exciting! Are they gonna be successful? Will there be a sequel? How did you come up with this amazing theory?

 

13 hours ago, Demodex said:

Because I've got all the evidence in canon source materials. 

 

Could you give us a sample of your findings, as I did years ago?

 

13 hours ago, Demodex said:

Mattris, let's see who is closer to the actual plot. 

 

We will see. I'm looking forward to it.

 

13 hours ago, Demodex said:

And I call bullshit that the movie is already filmed. Why you keep believing that is beyond me. 

 

Across dozens of posts that contained evidence and logical reasoning, I already told you.

 

13 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

And if the movie was already scored, then it would need to have already been edited (at least a rough cut) for John to be able to write anything cohesive

 

Remember, JJ had his editing team with him in Africa while they were shooting IX. It's like they were rushed, or something.

 

13 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

meaning that it would be finished completely by now. So they would have no reason whatsoever to sit on it for several more years.

 

I agree. It's already been several years.

 

13 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

Why am I engaging in this?

 

Because my wacky theories are irresistible.

[Demodex 557]

19 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Across dozens of posts that contained evidence and logical reasoning, I already told you.

 

Logical?  Really? 

😄😄😄

19 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Could you give us a sample of your findings, as I did years ago?

 

It was a joke.  But considering how dumb TROS was, I'm not expecting a good movie. 

 

 

19 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Remember, JJ had his editing team with him in Africa while they were shooting IX. It's like they were rushed, or something.

 

How many times do we have to tell you TROS was rushed?  Abrams had little time to write and film it because they cancelled Trevorrow's script. (It wasn't a fake.)

 

 

19 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Why do you think so much was revealed about this 'Rey movie'? What could be the advantage for Lucasfilm to announce it wasn't even done being written?

 

What are you talking about??  So much has been revealed?  We know almost nothing about it other than it takes place 15 years after TROS. 

Did I miss an announcement or something? 

[GerateWohl 4,396]

10 minutes ago, Demodex said:

How many times do we have to tell you TROS was rushed?  Abrams had little time to write and film it because they cancelled Trevorrow's script. (It wasn't a fake.)

Trevorrow's script was better (which wasn't difficult). 

[Mattris 416]

8 hours ago, Demodex said:

Logical?  Really?  😄😄😄

 

Based on all sorts of evidence, my reasoning was very logical, yes.

 

Have you have forgotten that Lucasfilm are very good at keeping secrets?  Can you not grant the (very real) possibility that they intended to trick the masses into thinking so many things that are not true... that something big is coming that you did not expect?

 

8 hours ago, Demodex said:

It was a joke.  But considering how dumb TROS was, I'm not expecting a good movie. 

 

By getting you to think that, they have you right where they want you.

  

8 hours ago, Demodex said:

How many times do we have to tell you TROS was rushed?  Abrams had little time to write and film it because they cancelled Trevorrow's script. (It wasn't a fake.)

 

Rushed because they had to complete two films.

 

From the time he was officially announced as the new writer/director of Episode IX, JJ Abrams and his team had an entire year to write and an entire year  to produce.

 

8 hours ago, Demodex said:

What are you talking about??  So much has been revealed?  We know almost nothing about it other than it takes place 15 years after TROS. 

Did I miss an announcement or something? 

 

Yes. You keep missing things. Look into what Kathleen Kennedy said during SWC 2023. You can even quote it here, if you want to talk about it.

[Demodex 557]

10 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Can you not grant the (very real) possibly that they intended to trick the masses into thinking so many things that are not true... that something big is coming that you did not expect?

 

I don't think they're that competent. 

 

 

10 minutes ago, Mattris said:

By getting you to think that, they have you right where they want you.

 

They intentionally made a shitty movie?  That is awfully stupid reasoning. 😄😄

 

 

[Mattris 416]

Why not?  How competent are they?  Better yet, who are "they"?

[Demodex 557]

10 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Look into what Kathleen Kennedy said during SWC 2023

 

What did she say?  Wait a minute. I thought everything they tell us is a lie?

1 minute ago, Mattris said:

Why not?  How competent are they?  Better yet, who are "they"?

 

They = Lucasfilm

13 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Rushed because they had to complete two films

 

 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

16 minutes ago, Mattris said:

my reasoning was very logical, yes.

 

Only in your mind. Not anyone else's. 

[Mattris 416]

39 minutes ago, Demodex said:

What did she say?  Wait a minute. I thought everything they tell us is a lie?

 

They = Lucasfilm

 

 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

 

Quote it here. I think she only lied when she implied there wasn't a plan for the sequel trilogy when she said, "We're making this up as we go."  (of course, borrowing a line from Raiders.)

 

Pablo Hidalgo confirmed that the primary elements for the story of the sequels came from George Lucas.

 

39 minutes ago, Demodex said:

They = Lucasfilm

 

Lucasfilm are "not that competent" starting when, exactly?

 

39 minutes ago, Demodex said:

 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

 

Making two films would explain why they were 'rushed'.

 

Think about it. Why admit publicly you're rushed? Perhaps it was a clue that they're trying to tell us what's really happening in (not so) subtle ways... so that when they finally reveal what they've been up to all this time, it will all make sense... and they can take credit for having not destroyed Star Wars.

 

Makes sense to me, especially when the literal words of the stories are taken into consideration.

[Brónach 1,302]

for all the talk, Mattris does have one testable idea. which is funny. because it can be tested.

[Giftheck 919]

This whole thread is hilarious, it should just be called the Mattris Star Wars Rambles thread rather than the Star Wars Disenchantment thread.

 

To actually contribute to the idea of this thread, after Andor, I've become really burned out on Star Wars as a whole and just want to take a break. I've been disappointed by more recent series and their finales. Maybe Andor was just too good in my eyes, or maybe I feel they're going too 'Marvel' with the amount. I probably won't watch Ahsoka when it comes out, and Skeleton Crew doesn't interest me. New movies... I kind of feel the same way towards these as I did in 2012, when they first announced the purchase of Lucasfilm and Episode VII. Almost complete apathy.

[Demodex 557]

@Mattris, you know I don't believe anything you have to say regarding Trevorrow's script and filming a movie at the same time as TROS. 

 

There is no way to prove which of us is right.  We will agree to disagree. 

But nothing you've stated has been evidence to me. 

[Mattris 416]

Nothing? I quoted many of the film and canon excerpts that I used to correctly predict how Emperor Palpatine's involvement would make sense of everything in TFA and TLJ. I can't think of anything else that could  have explained why the Saga should have continued past ROTJ. Can you? That's because it was planned, why George Lucas approved of Dark Empire.

 

JJ Abrams' favorite scene from the prequels is 'The Opera Scene'. I see now that it foreshadowed much to happen and be revealed.

 

And I'll say again, the ROTS novelization is a gold mine of Star Wars insight... and far superior to the film, from my point of view, of course.

[greenturnedblue 372]

Evidence? Like how the script refers to the Emperor's dead body as "it" being alleged evidence for palps' return even though it also calls Jabba the hutts corpse "it" as well

[Giftheck 919]

17 minutes ago, greenturnedblue said:

Evidence? Like how the script refers to the Emperor's dead body as "it" being alleged evidence for palps' return even though it also calls Jabba the hutts corpse "it" as well

[Demodex 557]

2 hours ago, Mattris said:

Nothing? I quoted many of the film and canon excerpts that I used to correctly predict how Emperor Palpatine's involvement would make sense of everything in TFA and TLJ.

 

 

 

I can't think of anything else that could  have explained why the Saga should have continued past ROTJ.

 

You have reading comprehension problems?

I meant there is no evidence that Trevorrow's script was fake. 

There's no evidence that Episode X is already filmed. 

There is no evidence that the sequel trilogy was planned in advance. (If it was it was planned horribly.)

 

I'm not talking about what's in the films. I'm talking about your ridiculous theories about Lucasfilm. 

[Brónach 1,302]

isn't there a literal quote by JJ describing the Snokes in a tank as a "solution" they came up with?

[greenturnedblue 372]

Well yeah but you see, anything anyone says is wrong because they're lying 

[Edmilson 7,491]

@Giftheck I feel the same about Star Wars these days. The utter mediocrity of recent SW productions (both on the big and the small screen) combined with the near omnipresence of the brand made me apathetic at best and hostile at worst towards the franchise. I know Andor and Mandalorian S3 seem good enough, but I'm so tired of Star Wars that it will take a while until I have enough energy to actually check them.

 

So yeah, I'm really "disenchanted" about SW.

 

Indiana Jones, on the other hand, looks great! Competent director, cool trailers, Williams returning and the best part: not a single Disney+ series in sight.

[Sweeping Strings 2,370]

Yeah ... my love for the original trilogy remains undiminished, and I enjoyed both The Force Awakens and Rogue One (and Solo, to a certain extent). But I really can't be bothered with what now seems like dozens of SW TV shows ... saturation that diminishes the brand (if the prequels, TLJ and TROS hadn't done that already, that is).   

[Brónach 1,302]

bad endings tend to sour entire things for me. bad endings multiple times, uh-oh.

 

but then it has multiple levels of ending. each movie has climaxes and endings, and then each trilogy, and then TROS has to do it with itself, the trilogy and the trilogies, and "solves" this by not engaging with the idea really.

 

indy has a great ending, a bad ending, another great ending, an awful ending, and then whatever happens now.

[Mattris 416]

21 hours ago, Giftheck said:

To actually contribute to the idea of this thread, after Andor, I've become really burned out on Star Wars as a whole and just want to take a break. I've been disappointed by more recent series and their finales. Maybe Andor was just too good in my eyes, or maybe I feel they're going too 'Marvel' with the amount. I probably won't watch Ahsoka when it comes out, and Skeleton Crew doesn't interest me. New movies... I kind of feel the same way towards these as I did in 2012, when they first announced the purchase of Lucasfilm and Episode VII. Almost complete apathy.

 

May I ask, what is the primary source of your Star Wars disenchantment?

 

17 hours ago, Demodex said:

You have reading comprehension problems?

I meant there is no evidence that Trevorrow's script was fake. 

There's no evidence that Episode X is already filmed. 

There is no evidence that the sequel trilogy was planned in advance. (If it was it was planned horribly.)

 

I'm not talking about what's in the films. I'm talking about your ridiculous theories about Lucasfilm. 

 

I have reading comprehension problems? It's ironic.

 

There is evidence that "Trevorrow's script was fake" if you approach and considers matters in context. For instance, do you think the script was 'leaked'... that Mr. Trevorrow did not want it to be made public? How about the associated production art and score slates that went public on the same day?

 

The same logic applies to the sequel trilogy being planned in advance and Episode X being already filmed. There simply too many pieces of evidence that, all told, point to the logical conclusion any sequel to IX would have been filmed concurrently. Such evidence can be found in the canon, as well things the cast/crew have stated... one thing Daisy Ridley said, in particular.

 

20 hours ago, Demodex said:

@Mattris, you know I don't believe anything you have to say regarding Trevorrow's script and filming a movie at the same time as TROS. 

 

There is no way to prove which of us is right.  We will agree to disagree. 

But nothing you've stated has been evidence to me. 

 

Ignoring my questions and points will get you nowhere, @Demodex. But there is a way to prove which of is right: Watch what Lucasfilm does. They are making things happen. I am watching them happen. And you will be like, 'What happened?'

 

19 hours ago, greenturnedblue said:

Evidence? Like how the script refers to the Emperor's dead body as "it" being alleged evidence for palps' return even though it also calls Jabba the hutts corpse "it" as well

 

Dead bodies referred to as "it" shouldn't be screaming, should they? This is but a drop in the bucket of the reality of all this.

 

14 hours ago, greenturnedblue said:

Well yeah but you see, anything anyone says is wrong because they're lying 

 

They usually only lie by omission. 'Surprise' is the name of their game.

 

53 minutes ago, Sweeping Strings said:

Yeah ... my love for the original trilogy remains undiminished, and I enjoyed both The Force Awakens and Rogue One (and Solo, to a certain extent). But I really can't be bothered with what now seems like dozens of SW TV shows ... saturation that diminishes the brand (if the prequels, TLJ and TROS hadn't done that already, that is).   

 

My my point of view, the shows are filled with clues that foreshadow what's coming. If so, it makes sense that Lucasfilm are cranking out "dozens of SW TV shows" now because they want to include as much as they can in the canon that proves they knew what they were doing. Because at some point - probably sooner than later - things will never look same ever again.

 

22 minutes ago, Brónach said:

bad endings tend to sour entire things for me. bad endings multiple times, uh-oh.

 

Bad endings? Who said anything about endings? We only have to wait for the next Episode! Clearly some are more patient, informed, and hopeful than others.

[Jurassic Shark 12,106]

13 minutes ago, Mattris said:

May I ask, what is the primary source of your Star Wars disenchantment?

 

Mattris?

[Demodex 557]

The sequel trilogy was not planned in advance. It would have been much better if it was. 

 

i don't know or care about the details of Trevorrow's leaks. It just doesn't make sense to pay someone for a script and production design that you know isn't going to be used. 

 

Lucasfilm has no motive for anything that you suggest. Why lie about the lack of planning?  There's no reason for it. They could have said that Palps returning was planned from the beginning.  It wouldn't have changed anything.  

 

We can agree to disagree because your theories are illogical. 

[rough cut 1,714]

I thought this was fun, if anyone wants to catch a glimpse of what could have been.

 

 

[Brónach 1,302]

the combined conspiracy theory that Disney & Lucasfilm paid for an script and preproduction that wasn't meant to be used, that they paid for the entire production of a movie that already exists, and that they paid for the real episode IX in its entirety simultaneously, and that they planned doing so from the beginning, all of which are things that can be asked about to the people involved, is really funny

[rough cut 1,714]

Agreed. Let’s stop flooding this thread with over ambitious conspiracy theories. Nothing wrong with floating an opinion/idea/theory and expecting a reasonable response - but this is in absurdism. But it’s not only the fault of the initial poster, but also anyone who indulges such behavior.

 

So a fact and an opinion:

 

Regarding Episode 9 and Trevorrow's unused script, I don’t think that it in itself is a hoax. Nothing curious about a studio trying out multiple versions of a script, from different writers.

 

What is interesting is that it actually seems a better movie than what we got.

[greenturnedblue 372]

14 minutes ago, rough cut said:

What is interesting is that it actually seems a better movie than what we got.

Don't forget they sabotaged IX on purpose to seem incompetent

[rough cut 1,714]

???

 

Edit: Oh, sarcasm.

[Mattris 416]

9 hours ago, Demodex said:

The sequel trilogy was not planned in advance. It would have been much better if it was.

 

The basis for your conclusion that "The sequel trilogy was not planned in advance" is your opinion of it? What do you think happened in these movies, especially as they relate to the previous Episodes? Please answer this.

 

9 hours ago, Demodex said:

Lucasfilm has no motive for anything that you suggest. Why lie about the lack of planning?  There's no reason for it. They could have said that Palps returning was planned from the beginning.  It wouldn't have changed anything.

 

Yes, it would have changed everything. If they had said 'Palps was going to return' from the beginning of the trilogy, people would have been thinking about ways he could have been involved in the plots. But they didn't announce his return. This caused you (and so many people) to assume  his return wasn't planned. And in doing so, they got you to assume so much that isn't so.

 

9 hours ago, Demodex said:

We can agree to disagree because your theories are illogical. 

 

Nope. My theories are 100% logical, based on facts and canon excerpts. It's your dismissal of these important things that is illogical, especially considering I was proven right about something so major.

 

9 hours ago, Demodex said:

i don't know or care about the details of Trevorrow's leaks. It just doesn't make sense to pay someone for a script and production design that you know isn't going to be used.

 

It does if Lucasfilm wants their audience to think they're (even more) incompetent. No plan for the trilogy AND the writer/director of the finale of the Saga was replaced after a script had already been written, two years after he had been hired? You suspect nothing is amiss here? Incompetence only? With stakes this high? All this after the (perceived) upheaval of the Saga that was The Last Jedi?

 

If you think there's nothing fishy about the so-called 'firing of Colin Trevorrow from IX', you should "know or care about the details of Trevorrow's leaks". Just like with Star Wars in general, the details make all the difference. Ignoring details - especially if you're already sure you're right about something - will not make you informed or correct. (It actually means you're more likely to be wrong.)

 

Concerning the truth of all this, you'll eventually realize that so many clues were hidden in plain sight. But you just couldn't drop your pride enough to fathom that they intended to tricked you and succeeded with flying colors.

 

7 hours ago, Brónach said:

the combined conspiracy theory that Disney & Lucasfilm paid for an script and preproduction that wasn't meant to be used, that they paid for the entire production of a movie that already exists, and that they paid for the real episode IX in its entirety simultaneously, and that they planned doing so from the beginning, all of which are things that can be asked about to the people involved, is really funny

 

It's possible that Lucasfilm did not tell Colin Trevorrow about their plan, that he was hired as a patsy.

 

It's more likely that they informed him of the grand plan but instructed him to pre-produce an Episode IX without Emperor Palpatine... because Executive Producer JJ Abrams would be taking care of that. Hiring someone to write a script and create some production art isn't that expensive. Disney/Lucasfilm can afford it, especially if it supports their cause.

 

Trevorrow was busy working on his Jurassic World  films. Looking back on it, it was kind of silly to think he was going to helm the end of a Star Wars trilogy in the midst of all that.

 

6 hours ago, rough cut said:

Agreed. Let’s stop flooding this thread with over ambitious conspiracy theories. Nothing wrong with floating an opinion/idea/theory and expecting a reasonable response - but this is in absurdism. But it’s not only the fault of the initial poster, but also anyone who indulges such behavior.

 

Like the 'over ambitious conspiracy theory' that Emperor Palpatine would feature in Episode IX, having been responsible for a great many things? Who saw that one coming, having shown how it could have been planned and intended?

 

What's absurd is that so many people don't see the writing on the wall:  IT'S A TRAP!!!

 

6 hours ago, rough cut said:

So a fact and an opinion:

 

Regarding Episode 9 and Trevorrow's unused script, I don’t think that it in itself is a hoax. Nothing curious about a studio trying out multiple versions of a script, from different writers.

 

What you should be questioning is how/why the script 'leaked', along with its production art... on the same day. This is also absurd.

 

6 hours ago, rough cut said:

What is interesting is that it actually seems a better movie than what we got.

 

Better in what way?

[Chen G. 3,964]

3 hours ago, Demodex said:

The sequel trilogy was not planned in advance. It would have been much better if it was. 

 

Movie trilogies are overwhelmingly not planned in advance.

 

The norm in Hollywood is not to plan: if you do plan, you're set on a certain path whereas if you don't, you leave yourself room to self-correct.

 

[Mattris 416]

25 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Movie trilogies are overwhelmingly not planned in advance.

 

Movie trilogies that are telling one story, not three separate stories? Which ones?  What about a third movie trilogy as part of one story?

 

25 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

The norm in Hollywood is not to plan: if you do plan, you're set on a certain path whereas if you don't, you leave yourself room to self-correct.

 

Do you think that Star Wars was/is not "set on a certain path"?

[Chen G. 3,964]

5 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Movie trilogies that are telling one story, not three separate stories? Which ones?

 

Both previous Star Wars trilogies?

[Jurassic Shark 12,106]

31 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Movie trilogies are overwhelmingly not planned in advance.

 

As exemplified by LotR.

[Mattris 416]

5 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Both previous Star Wars trilogies?

 

What about them do you think was not planned? Please be specific.

[Jurassic Shark 12,106]

7 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Both previous Star Wars trilogies?

 

Don't be so difficult, you know George Lucas had it all planned in his head since he was an infant. 

 

3 minutes ago, Mattris said:

What about them do you think was not planned? Please be specific.

 

The bad parts?

[Demodex 557]

https://www.murphysmultiverse.com/lucasfilms-new-jedi-order-movie-rumored-to-be-searching-for-a-new-lead/

 

The next movie isn't filmed yet. 

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, Mattris said:

 

What about them do you think was not planned? Please be specific.

 

The fact that Palpatine returning was not planned until Abrams re-wrote TROS is pretty much known by everyone. 

 

Rey was going to be a Kenobi originally. Abrams came up with the lame ass Palpatine thing while writing TROS. 

[GerateWohl 4,396]

14 minutes ago, Mattris said:

The basis for your conclusion that "The sequel trilogy was not planned in advance" is your opinion of it? What do you think happened in these movies, especially as they relate to the previous Episodes? Please answer this.

It is simply obvious. JJ Abrams simply has one directive for Star Wars: Give the fans what they love most, just a little faster and louder and up to date. 

That is why he took some ideas from Lucas treatments and made TFA more or less a remake of episode 4 with some nostalgia moments with Han and Leia and a death star, there had to be a death star again, because fans love death stars, even though storywise it made no sense at all.

Then Rian Johnson had one directive: People have high expectations and the want to be surprised. So I will surpise them by not fulfilling any of the fan's expectations.

That's how he added some substance with the Rey/Kylo plot and for the rest came up with some uninspired first hand ideas, which didn't really work out well.

Then came JJ again and brought back Palpatine, because the fans LOVE Palpatine, and fans love big battles. And the fans LOVE Lando, so we must bring him in. We don't really have a story, but they could search for McGuffins that lead them to Palpatine, so we have a plot. And everything must be bigger and louder. That is why now they have Star Destroyers and each of them can detroy an entire planet. But there is no story for that and we need to cut that short. So there is just one ship that controlls them all, like with the droid control ship. So, they just need to destroy that one. That is familiar. And fans LOVE things that they are familiar with. And we need to roll back most of the stuff Rian did. So repair Kylo's mask. He needs a mask. Fans LOVE masks. And Luke must be different. The fans didn't like how he was in Rian's movie. And Finn needs a new girl. etc. pp.

 

*sigh*

[Chen G. 3,964]

12 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

you know George Lucas had it all planned in his head since he was an infant. 

 

I get a big chucke when Lucas says this. I think he once said the idea of Indiana Jones dates back to community college, where "archaeology was one of my favourite classes."

 

I don't have Lucas' curriculum to hand, but I'm pretty sure a little community college in Modesto didn't offer an archaeology course.

[Mattris 416]

8 minutes ago, Demodex said:

The next movie isn't filmed yet. 

 

The fact that Palpatine returning was not planned until Abrams re-wrote TROS is pretty much known by everyone. 

 

Rey was going to be a Kenobi originally. Abrams came up with the lame ass Palpatine thing while writing TROS. 

 

The fact that you state these kinds of things as "fact" indicates of your lack of logic on this topic. Things you think are true - or are reported by others but not 100% provable and confirmed - are not "fact". It is only a fact that 'those things have been reported and/or assumed to be true.'

[Demodex 557]

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

The basis for your conclusion that "The sequel trilogy was not planned in advance" is your opinion of it?

 

No. The basis of my conclusion is everything I've ever heard about the production and writing of the sequel trilogy. There was no plan!!

 

 

 

34 minutes ago, Mattris said:

The fact that you state these kinds of things as "fact" indicates of your lack of logic on this topic. Things you think are true - or are reported by others but not 100% provable and confirmed - are not "fact". It is only a fact that 'those things have been reported and/or assumed to be true.'

 

Pot, meet kettle.  You can say there was a plan. I can say there wasn't. We have no way of knowing who is right.  How do you not comprehend this yet after 178 pages?

 

 

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

Yes, it would have changed everything. If they had said 'Palps was going to return' from the beginning of the trilogy, people would have been thinking about ways he could have been involved in the plots. But they didn't announce his return. This caused you (and so many people) to assume  his return wasn't planned. And in doing so, they got you to assume so much that isn't so.

 

Do you purposely miscomprehend everything I post??  If after TROS came out they would have said Palpatine's return was the plan from the beginning, we would have accepted that. 

Why on Earth would they admit that it was not planned?  They purposely want to look like idiots?  Well good job, because they do. 

 

The next movie, whether it's Episode X or not, is not filmed yet. And if they bring Palps back again It is going to be laughed at considerably. 

[Mattris 416]

30 minutes ago, Demodex said:

No. The basis of my conclusion is everything I've ever heard about the production and writing of the sequel trilogy. There was no plan!!

 

"everything I've ever heard"   Exactly. For a long while, the filmmakers just couldn't stop saying - or at the very least, implying - that there was no plan for the third Star Wars Saga trilogy, supposedly its conclusion. What reason could there have been to do this... for years?  Perhaps they could have simply confirmed there was a plan when people asked them during the last decade? The logical answer to all this:

 

You hear only what Lucasfilm wants you to know... because they intend to trick their audience... because they have something special planned.

 

30 minutes ago, Demodex said:

Pot, meet kettle.  You can say there was a plan. I can say there wasn't. We have no way of knowing who is right.  How do you not comprehend this yet after 178 pages?

 

Saying things is cheap. The evidence you've taken into account is a child-like interpretation of the films alone, as well as trust in the very people that are consistently making themselves look incompetent in their production of a Star Wars Saga trilogy and other Star Wars works.

 

On the other hand, I have made my conclusions, theories, and predictions based on primary evidence: the literal words of the official volumes of the Star Wars stories and its music. I am a critical reader/viewer/listener and have approached the story on its own terms as an allegory.

 

You should concern yourself with you own comprehension of Star Wars, @Demodex. I can assure you, mine is just fine.

 

I will now disengage from you until you have addressed every single one of my questions and points that you ignored on this page.

[Jurassic Shark 12,106]

Mattris is disengaging!

[greenturnedblue 372]

Victory is ours!

[Demodex 557]

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

What reason could there have been to do this... for years?  Perhaps they could have simply confirmed there was a plan when people asked them during the last decade? The logical answer to all this:

 

...is that there was no plan!  What could they possibly have in store for us that is so shocking they have to lie about the trilogy and make themselves look like idiots?  No, they fucked up the trilogy and they want you to think that there was some master plan for the future.

What seems logical to you sounds incredibly illogical to every other person here.  You just have delusions of grandeur.

 

 

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

You should concern yourself with you own comprehension of Star Wars,

 

I comprehend it just fine, thank you.

 

The fact that we are still arguing means you haven't put forth a credible explanation for your conclusions yet.  They make absolutely zero sense.

[GerateWohl 4,396]

The main argument, why there never was an overall plan for the SW saga is, if there was a plan, then it would be terribly stupid by Lucasfilm to hide it and to not use it for advertizing the saga (despite the fact that regarding the sequels it would have been a terrible plan).

Why should they hide the fact that there is an overall plan? There would be no logical reason to do so that would make any sense. Kathleen Kennedy is not Admiral Holdo.