Star Wars Disenchantment

[Jurassic Shark 12,094]

2 hours ago, Mattris said:

Hint:  Star Wars is not about space ships, lightsaber duels, or physical wars.

 

Chatgpt is getting worse...

[Mattris 416]

59 minutes ago, ThePenitentMan1 said:

You might've avoided those responses by adding a "just" to that sentence.

 

Star Wars is not just about space ships, lightsaber duels, or physical wars.

 

I expected those responses because I know the Star Wars audience's attention has been naturally drawn to the visually-stimulating, exciting action/adventure elements of the story. (I was for a long time.)  So the audience's focus is understandable, especially for those who view the IP as escapism... a simple story of good vs. evil that clearly ends 'happily ever after'.

 

But I view these elements as a distraction. The true purpose of Star Wars has nothing to do with space ships, lightsaber duels, or physical wars.

 

It's really a spiritual battle.

[Tallguy 3,402]

24 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Yes, politics... hence, allegory.

 

For... Watergate. No, wait...

[JTN 2,048]

37 minutes ago, Mattris said:

 

I expected those responses because I know the Star Wars audience's attention has been naturally drawn to the visually-stimulating, exciting action/adventure elements of the story. (I was for a long time.)  So the audience's focus is understandable, especially for those who view the IP as escapism... a simple story of good vs. evil that clearly ends 'happily ever after'.

 

But I view these elements as a distraction. The true purpose of Star Wars has nothing to do with space ships, lightsaber duels, or physical wars.

 

It's really a spiritual battle.

Seriously, how old are you, mate?

[A. A. Ron 1,744]

On 24/1/2024 at 8:53 AM, A. A. Ron said:

Exactly. Mattris is one of those people who needs to see purpose in every little thing, probably because it’s too scary to acknowledge that life is chaos and there’s no one steering the ship.

 

3 hours ago, Mattris said:

Chirrut Imwe (in Rogue One): There is more than one kind of prison, Captain. I feel that you carry yours with you wherever you go.

 

Eedy Karn (in Andor):  Everything says something, Syril. I've tried to make you understand that, but you've resisted.

Well I’m convinced.

 

44 minutes ago, JTW said:

Seriously, how old are you, mate?

We should all take bets on this. I’m guessing he’s 36.

[Mattris 416]

1 hour ago, JTW said:

Seriously, how old are you, mate?

 

I answered your three questions from pg. 187 regarding my perspective on Star Wars.

Why don't you answer mine regarding the story of Star Wars?

Until then, you'll get no response from me. 

 

On 24/01/2024 at 9:53 AM, A. A. Ron said:

Exactly. Mattris is one of those people who needs to see purpose in every little thing, probably because it’s too scary to acknowledge that life is chaos and there’s no one steering the ship.

 

What are you afraid of?

 

19 minutes ago, A. A. Ron said:

Well I’m convinced.

 

"You will be. You... will be." 

[JTN 2,048]

29 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Until then, you'll get no response from me. 

What are you afraid of?

 

 

49 minutes ago, A. A. Ron said:

We should all take bets on this. I’m guessing he’s 36.

I think he's way older than that, and that makes his case even more sad. Were he 6-16 years old, I would say "this too shall pass". But his condition seems permanent, and an adult who believes that Star Wars is some kind of greater philosophy, is on the same level as a member of scientology who believes that an alien created mankind billions of years ago.

If it's a child, people hope for the best, but if it's an adult, then they get worried for him.

[Nick1Ø66 4,722]

3 hours ago, Mattris said:

Yes, politics... hence, allegory.

 

No, Mattris, that's not what allegory is. Allegory is when one thing, typically an idea, is used to represent another thing.

 

Animal Farm is an allegory. Lord of the Flies is an allegory. But a story about how a democracy falls (ala the prequel trilogy) isn't an allegory for how a democracy falls. It's just a political story about how a democracy falls.

 

I'll grant that Lucas was probably trying to create, in a clumsy way, an allegory for what he perceived as 2000's Bush-era politics, but if that's what he was going for, it's not really what he got. It doesn't work any more as allegory than the OT does as a supposed allegory for Vietnam.

 

[Tallguy 3,402]

Just now, Nick1Ø66 said:

 

No, Mattris. That's not what allegory is. Allegory is when one thing, typically an idea, is used to represent another thing.

 

Animal Farm is an allegory. Lord of the Flies is an allegory. But a story about how a democracy falls (ala the prequel trilogy) isn't an allegory for how a democracy falls. It's just a political story about how a democracy falls.

 

 

It's actually an allegory for how a film school student from Modesto thinks politics works.

[A. A. Ron 1,744]

It’s an allegory for how a happy person becomes disenchanted.

[Mattris 416]

On 24/01/2024 at 7:10 AM, Chen G. said:

Frankly, I don't think Mattris can conjur up anything in this thread to quite top the saying that earned him a place in my signature. But I'm more than willing to see him try.

 

Just in case you missed it, Chen... In my fourth post on the previous page, I logically deduced how the Saga needed to continue past Episode VI, especially after the prequels gave context to the OT:

 

After being instructed by the very individuals who weren't able to foresee - or do anything to prevent - the utter destruction of the Jedi Order and collapse of the Republic they served, why was it expected by the audience that former farm boy Luke Skywalker - along with his sister (Princess) Leia who sought out one of the individuals for help - would have been able to create a lasting, prosperous New Jedi Order and New Republic? (This, after their victory over a galactic empire by way of mere good intentions, violence, and mysterious magic powers.)

 

In other words, what did the next generation of characters learn or experience throughout their journey that made clear that the story ended Happily Ever After... and would have not continued with the same things happening again with the subsequent generation?

 

The answer:  Nothing. The sequel trilogy showed what the audience should have expected: The same/similar events happened yet again. The story must continue still.

 

52 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

No, Mattris, that's not what allegory is. Allegory is when one thing, typically an idea, is used to represent another thing.

 

Animal Farm is an allegory. Lord of the Flies is an allegory. But a story about how a democracy falls (ala the prequel trilogy) isn't an allegory for how a democracy falls. It's just a political story about how a democracy falls.

 

I'll grant that Lucas was probably trying to create, in a clumsy way, an allegory for what he perceived as 2000's Bush-era politics, but if that's what he was going for, it's no what he got. It doesn't work any more as allegory than the OT does as a supposed allegory for Vietnam.

 

 

The primary definition from Oxford Languages:

 

al·le·go·ry

/ˈaləˌɡôrē/

noun

 

a story, poem, or picture that can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning, typically a moral or political one.

 

 

 

Star Wars is precisely this, yet the 'reveals' are still to come.

[Datameister 2,044]

How can it simultaneously be so fun and so irritating to read one person's posts? 

[Mr. Hooper 1,805]

Guys, I upgraded tonight from instant ramen to fully loaded nachos.

 

At least, I think that's a step up. 

[A. A. Ron 1,744]

3 hours ago, Datameister said:

How can it simultaneously be so fun and so irritating to read one person's posts? 

It‘s like a Hans Zimmer score!

[Naïve Old Fart 9,555]

2 hours ago, Mr. Hooper said:

Guys, I upgraded tonight from instant ramen to fully loaded nachos.

 

At least, I think that's a step up. 

 

Yay! Well done, you.

[JTN 2,048]

“Star Wars is precisely this, yet the 'reveals' are still to come.”

It’s like Nostradamus. You shall see that EVENTUALLY he’ll be right.

Dude, Lucas made SW 47 years ago, how much more time does the film need to show the “reveals”?

The sad thing is you seem to REALLY believe that a kids movie has some serious “reveals” 47 years after its release. 
You remind me of the aliens who worship Agent K’s watch in a locker. 

The really funny (and tragic) thing is that if George Lucas himself told you what we’ve been telling you, you wouldn’t

believe him. 

[Sweeping Strings 2,365]

4 hours ago, Mr. Hooper said:

Guys, I upgraded tonight from instant ramen to fully loaded nachos.

 

At least, I think that's a step up. 

I hope we're talking chilli beef, melted cheese, salsa, sour cream, guacamole and jalapenos .

[Chen G. 3,952]

8 hours ago, Mattris said:

Just in case you missed it, Chen... In my fourth post on the previous page, I logically deduced how the Saga needed to continue past Episode VI, especially after the prequels gave context to the OT:

 

After being instructed by the very individuals who weren't able to foresee - or do anything to prevent - the utter destruction of the Jedi Order and collapse of the Republic they served, why was it expected by the audience that former farm boy Luke Skywalker - along with his sister (Princess) Leia who sought out one of the individuals for help - would have been able to create a lasting, prosperous New Jedi Order and New Republic? (This, after their victory over a galactic empire by way of mere good intentions, violence, and mysterious magic powers.)

 

In other words, what did the next generation of characters learn or experience throughout their journey that made clear that the story ended Happily Ever After... and would have not continued with the same things happening again with the subsequent generation?

 

The answer:  Nothing. The sequel trilogy showed what the audience should have expected: The same/similar events happened yet again. The story must continue still.

 

Uh-huh...

[Mattris 416]

Again you feel the need to diagnose me, @JTW. Let's have a look at you.

 

Perhaps on some level you've realized the weakness of your position on the topic of Star Wars, especially compared against mine.

Rather than attempt to strengthen or clarify your position, you've continued trying to diminish mine.

You are clearly desperate to make me look bad even though my unique perspective has already been proven right on multiple fronts.

You might hope that aligning with those 'against me' will finally dissuade or demoralize me. Rest assured, it won't.

 

To summarize:

 

You have presented no logical reasoning, no credible/corroborated evidence based on facts.

Your entire thought process is driven by hardened opinions, having assumed so much for so long.

You have no record of correct narrative/character predictions.

You have never quoted from the Star Wars canon, excerpts that could bolster your interpretation of the story.

You consider Star Wars "a kids movie" but have offered no insight, no interesting takes, and can't even tell me what you think the story is.

You think the current makers of Star Wars don't understand the IP.

You have no proof of any controversies happening at Lucasfilm, nor any proof of cancelled projects or fired film makers. (News reports aren't proof. Project announcements are not proof of pre-production or that said projects were ever intended to have been made.)

You think those personally hired/appointed by George Lucas have been betraying their mentor/former boss, actions that could diminish his work and legacy.

You don't like Star Wars beyond the OT, going so far as to dismiss its further installments from the overall story.

The fact that your simplistic, pessimistic Star Wars conclusions are held by many people means absolutely nothing.

 

All told... You shouldn't be surprised when you realize that your stance on Star Wars was weak, naive, and proven to have been objectively wrong. But you probably will be.

[Tallguy 3,402]

8 hours ago, Datameister said:

How can it simultaneously be so fun and so irritating to read one person's posts? 

 

It's an allegory for the Sequel Trilogy.

[Chen G. 3,952]

I think you can scarcely find a better analogy for the expanded Star Wars series under Disney than the ressurected, immobilised, decrepit, kept-on-life-support, life-sucking, line-repeating Palpatine of Episode IX....

[Tallguy 3,402]

2 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

I think you can scarcely find a better analogy for the expanded Star Wars series under Disney than the ressurected, decrepit, kept-on-life-support Palpatine of Episode IX....

 

Ahhh, The Rise of Skywalker. The Diamonds Are Forever to The Last Jedi's On Her Majesty's Secret Service.

[JTN 2,048]

50 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Again you feel the need to diagnose me, @JTW. Let's have a look at you.

 

Perhaps on some level you've realized the weakness of your position on the topic of Star Wars, especially compared against mine.

Rather than attempt to strengthen or clarify your position, you've continued trying to diminish mine.

You are clearly desperate to make me look bad even though my unique perspective has already been proven right on multiple fronts.

You might hope that aligning with those 'against me' will finally dissuade or demoralize me. Rest assured, it won't.

 

To summarize:

 

You have presented no logical reasoning, no credible/corroborated evidence based on facts.

Your entire thought process is driven by hardened opinions, having assumed so much for so long.

You have no record of correct narrative/character predictions.

You have never quoted from the Star Wars canon, excerpts that could bolster your interpretation of the story.

You consider Star Wars "a kids movie" but have offered no insight, no interesting takes, and can't even tell me what you think the story is.

You think the current makers of Star Wars don't understand the IP.

You have no proof of any controversies happening at Lucasfilm, nor any proof of cancelled projects or fired film makers. (News reports aren't proof. Project announcements are not proof of pre-production.)

You think those personally hired/appointed by George Lucas have been betraying their mentor/former boss, actions that could diminish his work and legacy.

You don't like Star Wars beyond the OT, going so far as to dismiss its further installments from the overall story.

The fact that your simplistic, pessimistic Star Wars conclusions are held by many people means absolutely nothing.

 

All told... You shouldn't be surprised when you realize that your stance on Star Wars was weak, naive, and proven to have been objectively wrong. But you probably will be.

I’m not going to argue with an aggressive manchild, sorry.

 

 

[Gabriel Bezerra 303]

I think the one being aggressive is you though... But what do I know.

[Mr. Hooper 1,805]

3 hours ago, Sweeping Strings said:

I hope we're talking chilli beef, melted cheese, salsa, sour cream, guacamole and jalapenos .

 

Mine was vegetarian-style, with pepperoncini instead of jalapeños, plus I threw on some sliced olives.

 

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

You have no proof of any controversies happening at Lucasfilm, nor any proof of cancelled projects or fired film makers.

Oh, you won't get me to believe that it's been nothing but smooth sailing over at Lucasfilm...and I'm not interested in trying to persuade you otherwise.

 

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

You think those personally hired/appointed by George Lucas have been betraying their mentor/former boss, actions that could diminish his work and legacy.

I very much doubt that Lucas is thrilled with the direction Kathleen Kennedy and Disney have taken his legacy. I just have to look at his face and demeanour in the promotional appearances he's done for them to know that, not to mention what he infamously said to interviewer Charlie Rose. But again, I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise.

[Chen G. 3,952]

43 minutes ago, Mr. Hooper said:

I very much doubt that Lucas is thrilled with the direction Kathleen Kennedy and Disney have taken his legacy. I just have to look at his face and demeanour in the promotional appearances he's done for them to know that, not to mention what he infamously said to interviewer Charlie Rose.

 

I think its very complicated. Lucas is getting money off of the successes of Star Wars, insofar as he bought Disney stock as part of the sale. And he HAD greenlit both the sequel trilogy and the spinoffs, in principle, and even helped develop Episode VII and Solo, and had paid courtesy visits to the sets of a couple of the productions.

 

And while I'm sure - and there's lots of testimony - that selling Star Wars off was a moment of mixed feelings for him, its also true that it suits Lucas to play wounded to the  likes of Rose, the better to present himself as the anti-corporate rogue he prides himself on being. Certainly, his statement that his ideas for Episode VII were thrown-out wholesale is just false.

 

I ultimately think he was disappointed in the films themselves, but there IS more to it than that.

[Mattris 416]

22 minutes ago, Mr. Hooper said:

Oh, you won't get me to believe that it's been nothing but smooth sailing over at Lucasfilm...and I'm not interested in trying to persuade you otherwise.

 

With my story evidence as the basis for my theories and conclusions, I see Lucasfilm's seemingly endless chaos/controversies/cancelled Star Wars projects as a distraction to make them appear (even more) incompetent to the disillusioned fans. ('Act weak when you are strong'.)

 

Han (in Shriywook, to Chewy): You and I freedom make... by secret battle of pretend.

 

22 minutes ago, Mr. Hooper said:

I very much doubt that Lucas is thrilled with the direction Kathleen Kennedy and Disney have taken his legacy. I just have to look at his face and demeanour in the promotional appearances he's done for them to know that, not to mention what he infamously said to interviewer Charlie Rose. But again, I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise.

 

Ol' George visited the set of The Mandalorian  for photos with the crew and Baby Yoda. He also stood next to Kathleen Kennedy and laughed with her, as shown in one of the official behind-the-scenes videos. Strange behavior for someone who had been betrayed.

[Gabriel Bezerra 303]

19 minutes ago, Mattris said:

I see Lucasfilm's seemingly endless chaos/controversies/cancelled Star Wars projects as a distraction to make them appear (even more) incompetent to the disillusioned fans. ('Act weak when you are strong'.)

Mattris, you could just say that they were (fake) rumors, believing that Lucasfilm went out of their way to trick their fans is weird, they have more important things to sort out.

[Mattris 416]

The sheer volume of these so-called rumors should raise eyebrows. I think Colin Trevorrow's IX script, pre-production art, and scores slates 'leaking' on the same day was meant to have been a major clue to the reality of all this. For me, it was the final straw.

 

Obviously, they can't tell us the (full) truth regarding their Star Wars plans because that would ruin the surprise.

They can't say nothing because that would be too suspicious.

So they did the one thing we didn't expect: They lied.

[Nick1Ø66 4,722]

11 minutes ago, Mattris said:

So they did the one thing we didn't expect: They lied.

 

George Lucas & LucasFilm lying is the one thing I always suspect. 

[Mr. Hooper 1,805]

5 hours ago, Mattris said:

With my story evidence as the basis for my theories and conclusions, I see Lucasfilm's seemingly endless chaos/controversies/cancelled Star Wars projects as a distraction to make them appear (even more) incompetent to the disillusioned fans. ('Act weak when you are strong'.)

 

And as a company that should be interested in instilling confidence in their product and getting butts in theatre seats, why exactly would they want to play this charade?

 

5 hours ago, Mattris said:

Ol' George visited the set of The Mandalorian  for photos with the crew and Baby Yoda. He also stood next to Kathleen Kennedy and laughed with her, as shown in one of the official behind-the-scenes videos. Strange behavior for someone who had been betrayed.

Lucas mentored Dave Filoni, and probably sees Jon Favreau as an ally at Lucasfilm, so I wasn't surprised to see him getting comfortable on 'The Mandalorian' set. And he's a Hollywood veteran that knows how to play the game, hence that outwardly amicable behaviour we witnessed with Kennedy. If he stomped around acrimoniously, I don't think he'd be welcome on set...

 

[Nick1Ø66 4,722]

On 24/1/2024 at 1:28 AM, JTW said:

Of course Star Wars has a message. For daydreaming 12-year-olds. Not for adults who live in reality. 

 

What most of you don't realise is that Mattris is, in fact, 12 years old. 

 

Now, only at the end, do you understand.

[bored 309]

58 minutes ago, Mr. Hooper said:

Lucas mentored Dave Filoni, and probably sees Jon Favreau as an ally at Lucasfilm, so I wasn't surprised to see him getting comfortable on 'The Mandalorian' set.

Well if there's one thing Lucas knows how to do, it's to get comfortable and watch others work!

[Nick1Ø66 4,722]

On 24/1/2024 at 6:30 AM, Chen G. said:

I feel like pegging the core demographic around 12, as Lucas once did

 

 

[Mattris 416]

2 hours ago, Mr. Hooper said:

And as a company that should be interested in instilling confidence in their product and getting butts in theatre seats, why exactly would they want to play this charade?

 

To keep their audience in a state of underestimation. So when the makers of Star Wars really want to impress or surprise, they'll have the viewing masses right where they want them: in a state of shock and awe.

 

2 hours ago, Mr. Hooper said:

Lucas mentored Dave Filoni, and probably sees Jon Favreau as an ally at Lucasfilm, so I wasn't surprised to see him getting comfortable on 'The Mandalorian' set. And he's a Hollywood veteran that knows how to play the game, hence that outwardly amicable behaviour we witnessed with Kennedy. If he stomped around acrimoniously, I don't think he'd be welcome on set...

 

 

After his infamous tell-all interview with Charlie Rose, George Lucas should never again have been seen anywhere near a Lucasfilm production, much less on the set of a major Star Wars project.

 

1 hour ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

What most of you don't realise is that Mattris is, in fact, 12 years old.

 

I joined JWFan 22 years ago!

 

1 hour ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

Now, only at the end, do you understand.

 

That's the point. But we haven't seen 'the end' yet. One more trilogy should do it.  ("Never more than twelve." - Kino Loy to Cassian Andor)

[Mr. Hooper 1,805]

38 minutes ago, Mattris said:

To keep their audience in a state of underestimation. So when the makers of Star Wars really want to impress or surprise, they'll have the viewing masses right where they want them: in a state of shock and awe.

If you mean shock and awe in the military sense, it's worked on me. I feel overwhelmed to the point of paralysis, and have lost my will to fight back, or make myself a meal that takes more than 10 minutes...

 

48 minutes ago, Mattris said:

But we haven't seen 'the end' yet. One more trilogy should do it.  ("Never more than twelve." - Kino Loy to Cassian Andor)

Yes, another Rey-led trilogy should definitely "do it", if you mean drive the last nail in Star Wars' coffin.
 

[Nick1Ø66 4,722]

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

I joined JWFan 22 years ago!

 

Yet somehow, you returned.

[Mattris 416]

27 minutes ago, Mr. Hooper said:

If you mean shock and awe in the military sense, it's worked on me. I feel overwhelmed to the point of paralysis, and have lost my will to fight back, or make myself a meal that takes more than 10 minutes...

 

"It is useless to resist!"

 

27 minutes ago, Mr. Hooper said:

Yes, another Rey-led trilogy should definitely "do it", if you mean drive the last nail in Star Wars' coffin.

 

That's not Rey's part in the story. "These are your final steps..."

 

[Mr. Hooper 1,805]

Mattris, I feel as though your mission here is to dispel the gloom, which isn't a bad thing...but some of us are just beyond saving, and prefer to wrap ourselves in a warm blanket of disenchantment and wallow in our despondency.

[JTN 2,048]

To him Star Wars is religion. To us it's a series of films and tv shows. 

To him it's life. To us it's just entertainment. 

He wants to believe in the Matrix so hard, that he's incapable of realizing the truth, that there is no spoon. 

 

[Mr. Hooper 1,805]

5 minutes ago, JTW said:

To him Star Wars is religion. To us it's a series of films and tv shows.

While I was never one to worship at the altar of Star Wars, they've been more than just movies and disposable entertainment to me, in the same way John Williams' music isn't "just music".

 

I feel a strong connection to them, but not enough to build a cathedral in their honour. But if someone else wants to, I say: "Hey, whatever makes you happy."

[Nick1Ø66 4,722]

36 minutes ago, JTW said:

To him Star Wars is religion.

 

10 minutes ago, Mr. Hooper said:

While I was never one to worship at the altar of Star Wars, they've been more than just movies and disposable entertainment to me, in the same way John Williams' music isn't "just music".

 

I feel a strong connection to them, but not enough to build a cathedral in their honour.

You and Mattris are very much alike. Star Wars is your religion, yet you have both fallen from the pure faith. Your methods have not differed as much as you pretend. Mattris is but a shadowy reflection of you. It would take only a nudge to make you like him. To push you out of the light.

[JTN 2,048]

13 minutes ago, Mr. Hooper said:

they've been more than just movies and disposable entertainment to me

The word "disposable" you used, not me. Nonetheless it is just entertainment, nothing more. If you're not a kid. 

 

11 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

in the same way John Williams' music isn't "just music"

That's a totally different thing. JW's scores are true works of art, orchestral music of the greatest quality. 

[Chen G. 3,952]

11 minutes ago, Mr. Hooper said:

While I was never one to worship at the altar of Star Wars, they've been more than just movies and disposable entertainment to me, in the same way John Williams' music isn't "just music".

 

I also think good drama and art should be thought of in terms of religiosity.

 

But I still take it as an aesthetic experience: its something you experience, and sort of washes over you. Its not a puzzle to be mechanically worked out: what Mattris is doing is essentially what the rabid Kubrickians do, dialed up to a million.

[JTN 2,048]

Lucas' Star Wars doesn't hold a candle to Kubrick's 2001: A Space Odyssey.

[Chen G. 3,952]

Not the point I was making.

[JTN 2,048]

I know, but you mentioned the fans of Kubrick's films. Kubrick's films are much deeper than Star Wars. E.g. 2001: ASO is one of the greatest films ever made about the meaning of life, what it is to be human, where are we from etc. While Star Wars is just pure lighthearted fantasy escapist entertainment.

[Chen G. 3,952]

Not a fan of the movie, myself. But still, the point the movie makes is felt by experiencing it, not by the kind of very reductive, simple-minded, literal approach of looking for literal clues tucked into the corners of the frame and shapes in the background and whatnot.

 

Same with the kind of readings Mattris is trying to make.

[JTN 2,048]

Star Wars doesn't have deeper layers, no matter how hard Lucas or our boy Mattris wants to convince everyone. It has motifs like Vader's redemption, but they are all on the surface level designed so that it be easy for a kid to understand. That's why Lucas subsequently put in the "Nooo!" in RotJ because he didn't think audiences were smart enough to get what Vader is thinking during that scene. It's one of the biggest proofs how Lucas treats his audience like dumb children.

 

When you watch a much more intelligently written and directed film like 2001 or Blade Runner or The Matrix, there are multiple layers that the filmmakers don't shove into your face, but let you figure out for yourself.  None of these three films are mainly about entertainment, but about telling a profound story that demands the involvement, thinking and undivided attention of the audience, not just their ability of being stupidly entertained for 2 hours. 

 

 

[Mr. Hooper 1,805]

7 minutes ago, JTW said:

Nonetheless it is just entertainment, nothing more. If you're not a kid.

So I'm guessing we'll never see you cosplaying at Star Wars Celebration...

 

6 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

what Mattris is doing is essentially what the rabid Kubrickians do, dialed up to a million.

Oh those Kubrickian analysts are indeed irksome, discussing the colour of the wallpaper in 'The Shining'.