Popular Post Jay 37,368 Posted October 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted October 3, 2022 Roger says: " Coming later this month.... Featuring what is probably Goldsmith's longest score... " http://www.intrada.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8974 Marian Schedenig, filip and Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Yavar Moradi 2,599 Posted October 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted October 3, 2022 Bless Roger... he's such a good guy he clearly wanted to save everyone from disappointment when the second recent Varese Club release in a row failed to be Hollow Man. Yavar Raiders of the SoundtrArk, Cindylover1969, Marian Schedenig and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,017 Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 Awesome! Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,368 Posted October 3, 2022 Author Share Posted October 3, 2022 Anyone know how Townson was unable to get perpetuity rights for Varese when they released the OST album to this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,599 Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 14 minutes ago, Jay said: Anyone know how Townson was unable to get perpetuity rights for Varese when they released the OST album to this? I dunno exactly but it fits the pattern for the three Goldsmith/Verhoeven collaborations -- Varese released the OSTs for all three of them, and then the original single disc Deluxe Edition expansion of Total Recall, but Quartet Records was later able to revisit that with their definitive 2CD release, and earlier Prometheus (and later Quartet again) expanded Basic Instinct. So in light of that maybe the Hollow Man expansion coming from Intrada isn't so big of a surprise... Matinee earlier this year surprised me a bit more considering Varese did get Gremlins 2 in perpetuity (plus other Universal projects). Yavar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,368 Posted October 3, 2022 Author Share Posted October 3, 2022 Surely the director of the film has no relation to the contract signed for releasing a soundtrack album by a musical label Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,599 Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 7 minutes ago, Jay said: Surely the director of the film has no relation to the contract signed for releasing a soundtrack album by a musical label Seems possible… otherwise it’s one hell of a coincidence, don’t you agree? Yavar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,368 Posted October 3, 2022 Author Share Posted October 3, 2022 Coincidences happen all the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneBuckFilms 323 Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 Oh now THIS will ABSOLUTELY be purchased as soon as it's available. Raiders of the SoundtrArk and Yavar Moradi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,368 Posted October 3, 2022 Author Share Posted October 3, 2022 While Varese was able to retain perpetuity rights for the vast majority of the scores that they released the initial score album for in the 90s and 00s, there are at least a dozen times they did not 1989 - Pet Sematary (Elliot Goldenthal) - Paramount Pictures - 2013 La-La Land 1990 - Total Recall (Jerry Goldsmith) - Carolco Pictures - 2015 Quartet 1991 - Dead Again (Patrick Doyle) - Paramount Pictures - 2014 La-La Land 1991 - Soap Dish (Alan Silvestri ) - Paramount Pictures - 2015 Quartet 1992 - Basic Instinct (Jerry Goldsmith) - TriStar Pictures - 2015 Quartet 1992 - Cool World (Mark Isham) - Paramount Pictures - 2015 Quartet 1993 - Matinee (Jerry Goldsmith) - Universal Pictures - 2022 Intrada 1993 - Fire In The Sky (Mark Isham) - Paramount Pictures - 2022 La-La Land 1993 - Flesh and Bone (Thomas Newman) - Paramount Pictures - 2022 La-La Land 1994 - Iron Will (Joel McNeely) - Walt Disney Pictures - 2019 Intrada 1996 - First Wives Club (Marc Shaiman) - Paramount Pictures - 2022 La-La Land 2000 - Hollow Man (Jerry Goldsmith) - Columbia Pictures - 2022 Intrada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Sítrónu 494 Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 nice! IIRC the DVD back then included Jerry Goldsmith's audio commentary for the entire movie. That was fun. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,465 Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 Cool. Any Goldsmith score for Verhoeven is a must buy. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,599 Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 7 minutes ago, Edmilson said: Cool. Any Goldsmith score is a must buy. Fixed it for ya. 19 minutes ago, Henry Sítrónu said: nice! IIRC the DVD back then included Jerry Goldsmith's audio commentary for the entire movie. That was fun. An *incredible* audio commentary, I might add, which made all who listened to it realize that Goldsmith *could* talk musically in depth about his work! Yavar Tallguy and Edmilson 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,465 Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 Ideally, yeah. But JG did a lot of movies, so you'd need to be really rich in order to afford buying expanded editions of everything he ever wrote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,599 Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 37 minutes ago, Jay said: While Varese was able to retain perpetuity rights for the vast majority of the scores they released the initial score album for, there are at least 8 times they did not 1984 - Top Secret! (Maurice Jarre) - Paramount Pictures - 2022 La-La Land 1990 - Total Recall (Jerry Goldsmith) - Carolco Pictures - 2015 Quartet 1991 - Dead Again (Patrick Doyle) - Paramount Pictures - 2014 La-La Land 1992 - Basic Instinct (Jerry Goldsmith) - TriStar Pictures - 2015 Quartet 1992 - Cool World (Mark Isham) - Paramount Pictures - 2015 Quartet 1993 - Matinee (Jerry Goldsmith) - Universal Pictures - 2022 Intrada 1995 - Psycho II (Jerry Goldsmith) - Universal Pictures - 2014 Intrada 2000 - Hollow Man (Jerry Goldsmith) - Columbia Pictures - 2022 Intrada I don't know if any patterns can be found here, or if its just random circumstances that lead to them not getting it Couple problems with this list: 1) Varese only started retaining perpetuity rights as standard at some point in 1989 (after Leviathan -- we know they don't control that one). So Top Secret is nothing worthy of note at all -- they almost never got perpetuity rights to scores in the 80s. That's why other labels were able to revisit things like Goldsmith's The Secret of NIMH, Link, Rambo: First Blood Part II, and Supergirl (plus a lot of other non-Goldsmith scores from the 80s). 2) Varese didn't release an initial score album for Psycho II. That was originally released on MCA Records (so owned by Universal Music Group) -- just like Explorers and the album recording of Masada, both of which Varese also premiered on CD like Psycho II, but sub-licensed the albums from UMG. Another title that should be on your list is Elliot Goldenthal's Pet Sematary (expanded by LLL), and I think there are a few other non-Goldsmiths out there too but I can't think of them off the top of my head. EDIT: Oh! I just remembered three more scores more originally released by Varese in the 90s that LLL expanded recently: https://lalalandrecords.com/fire-in-the-sky-limited-edition/ https://lalalandrecords.com/flesh-and-bone-limited-edition/ https://lalalandrecords.com/first-wives-club-the-limited-edition/ Yavar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,368 Posted October 3, 2022 Author Share Posted October 3, 2022 Thanks - updated! Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,599 Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 2 minutes ago, Jay said: Thanks - updated! You've still got Psycho II on the list. You don't have Masada or Explorers there, and it's in the same boat as them. I added three more 90s Varese titles which got expanded by LLL, in my previous post... I think there are more (maybe a couple by Quartet) so when/if I think of them, I'll mention them. Yavar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,368 Posted October 3, 2022 Author Share Posted October 3, 2022 All set The big pattern so far is that 6 of the 10 titles Varese didn't get perpetuity rights for are Paramount Pictures titles So that gives hope that another label could do other Paramount flicks that Varese did the initial score album for, like Shaiman's Addams Family Values And interestingly, we know that Sony Music THOUGHT Paramount gave them perpetuity rights to Star Trek TMP back in 1979, when it was only a 15 year contract and they illegally released their expansion in 1999. So maybe that's been a thing with Paramount since forever? So maybe any Paramount score that came out on any label that isn't in print any more could be expanded by any specialty label directly through Paramount like the 2022 Star Trek TMP was done between LLL and Paramount directly? Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thestat 348 Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,368 Posted October 3, 2022 Author Share Posted October 3, 2022 What does that have to do with Jerry's Hollow Man score? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Guernsey 2,286 Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 4 minutes ago, Jay said: Marc Shaiman's ADDAMS FAMILY VALUES (1994) Oh yeah, I hope they do... Shaiman's two Addams Family scores are terrific. The sequel deserves the same treatment as the original. But I digress. Yay for Hollow Man. I think I bought the DVD for the isolated score/commentary. Might have to dig that out. I have to admit that I don't recall being totally convinced I needed significantly more music from this one, but I'll get it anyway as, you know, it's Jerry. Another digression, I really like the 1999 ST:TMP sequencing. It's like the perfect tone poem version of the score that has all the best parts (unlike the OST which misses out too many of the best parts) but some of those shorter cues (the TV theme/warp speed cues in particular) are fun but don't add much, although I do like when they finally get to warp speed and the passage resolves in a way it didn't when they failed to do so earlier. Enough digression. Need sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,483 Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 Great! I'll get it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,599 Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 23 minutes ago, Jay said: All set The big pattern so far is that 6 of the 10 titles Varese didn't get perpetuity rights for are Paramount Pictures titles So that gives hope that another label could do other Paramount flicks that Varese did the initial score album for, like Shaiman's Addams Family Values Alas, I'm pretty sure MV looked into it and publicly posted that Varese controls Addams Family Values in perpetuity and therefore LLL won't be expanding it. They've gotten other Paramount Goldsmiths in perpetuity too, such as Star Trek: Nemesis (and the Giacchino Treks for that matter), and Along Came a Spider... presumably they control both the Brian Tyler and Jerry Goldsmith scores for Timeline in perpetuity... Yavar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,368 Posted October 4, 2022 Author Share Posted October 4, 2022 Nemesis and the Giacchino Trek expansions were released within 15 years after initial release! We don't know they have perpetuity rights, just that they still had rights when the expansions came to be Along Came A Spider is a good point, thought. As for Addams Family Values, do we know if MV investigated and confirmed Varese still has it, or did he assume Varese still had it? Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 9 hours ago, Jay said: This cover is...evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filip 53 Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 12 hours ago, Jay said: 1992 - Cool World (Mark Isham) - Paramount Pictures - 2015 Quartet Wooo. Probably my fav Quartet Records release, lol. Anyhow, whoever has the rights to Addams Family Values, I hope they do a decent expansion sometime (surely there's more material than the 38 minutes of the original release). Also 4K bluray release please. Excited for HOLLOW MAN. Tom Guernsey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerateWohl 4,370 Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 As recently there was some discussion about the Basic Instinct score, now listening to Hollow Man this sounded to me pretty much like more of the same. But so far I just listened to the main title. I guess, the 90s are not my favourite period of Goldsmith's work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,694 Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 The covers are based on two of the DVD covers (hence likely the artwork they could choose from) and the one with Bacon and Shue looks pretty bad - like what happens if you press down on the cellophane of an unwrapped DVD and sunlight makes the cover look weird. Actually, I don't like either of them, but a) that's the movie's marketing people, and b) I'm not buying this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,599 Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 13 hours ago, Jay said: Nemesis and the Giacchino Trek expansions were released within 15 years after initial release! We don't know they have perpetuity rights, just that they still had rights when the expansions came to be Along Came A Spider is a good point, thought. As for Addams Family Values, do we know if MV investigated and confirmed Varese still has it, or did he assume Varese still had it? Quote I'm looking forward to this. I think ADDAMS FAMILY VALUES is the superior film, but this is the superior score. Loved both movies as a kid, I hope they will follow up with VALUES at some point! Wish we could do it, but it is Varese territory. MV https://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=103967&forumID=1&archive=0 I'm guessing MV actually investigated. Yavar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,368 Posted October 4, 2022 Author Share Posted October 4, 2022 I'd say that quote is ambiguous enough to not reveal either way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 Cool! After 2022, there's little OSTs left in my Goldsmith collection: Hollow Man, The 13th Warrior, L.A. Confidential, Matinee, Rudy, Medicine Man. Yavar Moradi and Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,433 Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 Damn that's great news. Another grail I'll be able to cross from my list! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,368 Posted October 4, 2022 Author Share Posted October 4, 2022 I'm really looking forward to discovering this one; I saw the film in theaters in 2000, but haven't seen it since, and I don't think I ever listened to the OST album or a rip of the isolated score track I also like it when specialty labels are able to get their scores to spooky films out before Halloween Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,198 Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 It's one of my favourites out of those Goldsmith scores that are few people's favourites. Also, I somehow misplaced the cover inlay of my Varese CD some 20 odd years ago (in my flat… no idea how that happened), so it'll be nice to have a proper looking version again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 Though shipping fees being what they are really make me second-guess this buy. Fake says it's Goldsmith longest recorded score, which seems ludicrous when you look at the picture (did Verhoeven secretly cut a second part or a cinema verité version?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,599 Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 No but in addition to the considerable length of the main program (already up there with the longest Goldsmith scores) there’s just a whopping 48 minutes of recorded alternates, some of them fairly significant. Don’t judge the length by the previously available isolated score track, which conformed only to what was used in the film. Yavar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 Gee, to know Goldsmith was sick during that year and was forced to write 'fairly significant alternates' for this piece of shit movie is sad. The 70 minutes that ended up in the movie are already much too good for it. Bayesian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,599 Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 Maybe he was glad for the work/distraction. He seemed to like working with Verhoeven. Yavar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 The score sure suggests it. But still, it's such an unworthy project for both guys. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Ware 526 Posted October 6, 2022 Share Posted October 6, 2022 A list of the sketches held by the Academy (https://collections.new.oscars.org/Details/Archive/71303051) Quote 1-1 "The Hollow Man," 4 pages; 1-2 "The Rat," 1 page; 1-3 "Lady in the Window," 2 pages; 1-4 "I'm a Genius," 2 pages; 1-6 [Pickup], 1 page; 1-6 "Chasing Isabelle," 5 pages; Sweetener, 1 page; 1-7 "Isabelle Comes Back (revised)," 12 pages; 2-1 "Linda and Sebastian (old)," 4 pages; 2-1a "The Pentagon (new)," 2 pages [photocopy, 2 pages]; 2-3 "This is Science," 12 pages; 2-4 "Not Here," 2 pages; 3-1 "The Buttons," 4 pages; photocopy, 4 pages; old page 3, 1 page; 3-2 "Coffee Break," 2 pages; 3-3 "Never There," 3 pages; 3-4 "Not Right," 6 pages; 3-5 "What Went Wrong?," 3 pages; 3-7 "In the Mirror," 1 page; 3-7 "In the Mirror (new)," 1 page; 3-10 "Why Not," 1 page; 4-1 "I Can't See Him," 2 pages; 4-1a "I Can't See Him," 6 pages; 4-1b "I Can't See Him (new)," 3 pages; 4-2 [Pickup], 1 page; 4-2 "I Liked It," 2 pages; 4-3 "Not Yet (revised)," 2 pages; 4-3 "Not Yet (new)," 2 pages; 4-4 "Broken Window," 6 pages; 4-4 "Broken Window (new)," 3 pages; 4-5 "No Pain," 1 page; 4-5 "He's Here (new)," 5 pages; 4-6 "A Fact of Life," 2 pages; 4-7 "False Image," 5 pages; 4-8 "No Prize," 1 page; 5-1 "Hi, Boss," 5 pages; 5-2 "No Code," 9 pages; 5-3 "Find Him," 11 pages [no page 10; parts of this page were cut and pasted into the "new" version that follows]; 5-3 "Find Him (new)," 3 pages [photocopy, 3 pages]; 5-4 "Bloody Floor," 10 pages; 5-4 "Bloody Floor (new)," 1 page; 6-1 "Linda Takes Action," 12 pages; 6-2 "Wet Attack," 2 pages; 6-2 "Wet Attack (new)," 1 page; 6-2 "Wet Attack (new)," 3 pages; 6-2a [no title], 1 page; 6-3 "The Elevator," 6 pages; 6-4 [The Big Climb], 4 pages [no page 1]; 6-4 "The Big Climb (new)," 2 pages; 6-4b "The Big Climb (new)," 3 pages Yavar Moradi and enderdrag64 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,694 Posted October 6, 2022 Share Posted October 6, 2022 23 hours ago, publicist said: Gee, to know Goldsmith was sick during that year and was forced to write 'fairly significant alternates' for this piece of shit movie is sad. The 70 minutes that ended up in the movie are already much too good for it. Right at the end of his commentary of the iso score he indicates that he'd like to do any sequel that happens, so while you may think it's rubbish, he clearly enjoyed doing it. It sounds like the exact opposite experience he had on The Mummy. Which is odd, because I like that film, whereas I do agree with you on this movie. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted October 6, 2022 Share Posted October 6, 2022 4 hours ago, Richard Penna said: Right at the end of his commentary of the iso score he indicates that he'd like to do any sequel that happens, so while you may think it's rubbish, he clearly enjoyed doing it. I attribute this to Verhoeven. Several times through the commentary he actually says aloud how boring the next 20 minutes are gonna be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindylover1969 32 Posted October 6, 2022 Share Posted October 6, 2022 22 hours ago, publicist said: it's such an unworthy project for both guys. Is this really a surprise (especially re JG...)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,694 Posted October 6, 2022 Share Posted October 6, 2022 59 minutes ago, publicist said: I attribute this to Verhoeven. Several times through the commentary he actually says aloud how boring the next 20 minutes are gonna be. Even so, does it really matter how bad the film is if the score is good. Goldsmith made half a career from scoring awful films. Yavar Moradi and ThePenitentMan1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted October 6, 2022 Share Posted October 6, 2022 37 minutes ago, Richard Penna said: Even so, does it really matter how bad the film is if the score is good. Goldsmith made half a career from scoring awful films. Phrased in such a broad way, probably not. But as i said initially, going by what happened to JG on a personal basis at exactly this time coupled with the hefty amount of writing on this particular movie struck me as kind of...sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,694 Posted October 6, 2022 Share Posted October 6, 2022 Yeah I get what you mean. On the completely wrong project it could be a nightmare, but I guess it depends on whether he thought the film was boring and he was doing his best to make it interesting with music, or whether the composing process was boring but he liked working with Verhoeven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerateWohl 4,370 Posted October 6, 2022 Share Posted October 6, 2022 I liked the movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,017 Posted October 6, 2022 Share Posted October 6, 2022 I've seen it only once at the cinema when it first came out. I remember liking it well enough. But then, I was 15-16. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted October 7, 2022 Share Posted October 7, 2022 I used to really did this movie when I was 10. Actually just watched it again recently. It’s awful, but something about how ridiculous it is makes it amusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corellian2019 386 Posted October 7, 2022 Share Posted October 7, 2022 I remember listening to a few minutes of the group commentary for the movie and, compared to his other commentaries, Verhoeven's lack of enthusiasm was so palpable that I barely registered that he was present Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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