SPOILER TALK: Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny

[Romão 2,274]

17 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

Its one of the elements I most hated about Kingdom of the Crystal Skull: turning it all into a soap-opera a-la latter-day Star Wars. "Why, Mutt couldn't by any chance be...INDY'S SON!?!"

 Exactly. It's absolutely cloying.

 

Also, makes it absolutely impossible for the next movie to ignore those events. You can even pretend this new movie is set before KOTCS, due to Ford's age.

 

It makes the Indiana Jones movies slaves to two of the buzz words I hate the most in current blockbuster filmmaking: continuity and canon (others would be Cinematic Universe and post-credits scene).

[Chen G. 3,949]

5 minutes ago, Romão said:

It makes the Indiana Jones movies slaves to two of the buzz words I hate the most in current blockbuster filmmaking: continuity and canon

 

See, I personally do prefer film series where the entries have this novelistic unity, telling one continuous story across multiple entries.

 

But where I do agree completely is in that this kind of storytelling is simply not in the DNA of Indiana Jones. It is manifestly an anthology, not a cycle.

[Brónach 1,302]

I want to frame these exchanges.

 

I don't want to be too negative, per the forum rules, however, I don't see what to love in this topic.

[Romão 2,274]

22 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

See, I personally do prefer film series where the entries have this novelistic unity, telling one continuous story across multiple entries.

 

But where I do agree completely is in that this kind of storytelling is simply not in the DNA of Indiana Jones. It is manifestly an anthology, not a cycle.

 

That's absolutely fair and comes down to personal preference.

 

But we're in absolute agreement that it doesn't quite fit with Indiana Jones 

[Nick1Ø66 4,718]

28 minutes ago, Brónach said:

I want to frame these exchanges.

 

I don't want to be too negative, per the forum rules, however, I don't see what to love in this topic.

 

Too soon for the "Indiana Jones Disenchantment Thread"?

[Brónach 1,302]

hey it's not 2008

[Edmilson 7,466]

I hate KOTCS, but one of its few good things is that it provided Indy with a great happy ending: a wife, a son and a happy married life.

 

Now DoD will undo all of this simply because Hollywood screenwriters can't write legacy characters unless if it is to make them miserable. Why couldn't Karen Allen make a cameo? Or even Shia? I know the latter would be hard to convice, but still, nothing that a huge drop of Disney money don't fix.

[mrbellamy 6,287]

1 minute ago, Edmilson said:

Why couldn't Karen Allen make a cameo? 

 

Since this is the spoiler thread, from what I'm gathering I believe it does end with them back together. 

[Brónach 1,302]

it was planned from the beginning

[Nick1Ø66 4,718]

6 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

 

Since this is the spoiler thread, from what I'm gathering I believe it does end with them back together. 

 

Like I suggested above, I think this is likely as well.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

I hope Indy dies

[Nick1Ø66 4,718]

9 minutes ago, Brónach said:

it was planned from the beginning

 

Well you see, Lucas originally wrote 12 Indiana Jones stories, then realized it was too long, and split it in half, then into thirds, then...

[Brónach 1,302]

I won't give you an explanation, but once Indy 6 is released with the Tintin crossover, it will make sense of everything.

[Edmilson 7,466]

Tintin vs Indiana Jones: Dawn of Archeology

 

It would be fun to see an older Harrison Ford fighting a CGI Tintin played by Jamie Bell.

[Bellosh 3,419]

41 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

 

Like I suggested above, I think this is likely as well.

 

I have a feeling that Last Crusade line Indy has been saying off screen in these trailers, 'been looking for this all my life" is in reference to ending up with Marion at the end.

 

Calling it now.

[1977 1,743]

4 hours ago, Edmilson said:

After reading your post, I was wondering why, after the hugely controversial reception of the Star Wars Sequels, Disney/Lucasfilm still insists in this trope of presenting beloved heroes of the past as lonely, broken and sad men, who need a plucky young female to get them back in action.

 

It's all about deconstructing the past, subverting expectations and being audacious.

 

Of course we can't have older men aging gracefully and maintaining their stature, we have to tear all that toxic masculinity down and in its place fly the flag of the girl boss that belittles and sneers at the hero whilst proclaiming her absolute awesomeness.

 

[Chen G. 3,949]

Just now, JTWfan77 said:

Of course we can't have older men aging gracefully and maintaining their stature

 

That's a hard thing to do in an action movie.

 

Action heroes age gracefully when they age offscreen.

[1977 1,743]

So Indy and Marion are separated/divorced in this? Does Karen Allen even appear in the film?

 

3 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

That's a hard thing to do in an action movie.

 

Action heroes age gracefully when they age offscreen.

 

Alex Guinness as Obi-Wan Kenobi 

Bernard Shaw as Theoden

Clint Eastwood in Unforgiven

 

 

[Brónach 1,302]

who cares

[Bellosh 3,419]

There's some serious spoiler chat going on over at the raven forums for anyone interested 

[1977 1,743]

See you there!

[Chen G. 3,949]

16 minutes ago, JTWfan77 said:

Alex Guinness as Obi-Wan Kenobi 

Bernard Shaw as Theoden

Clint Eastwood in Unforgiven

 

Those examples are very, very different to Indiana Jones. Either through the nature of the character (as introduced, old Ben is the old mentor type, not the swashbuckler type) or the nature of the film itself: do you really want an Indy film that's like Unforgiven!?

[Brónach 1,302]

nothing quite could have prepared me for the low key misogyny bubbling here and there in fandoms around certain things.

 

10 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

do you really want an Indy film that's like Unforgiven!?

 

yes because the stuff gets worshipped in an altar that has to pretend it was always EPIC and DARK and SERIOUS and then people get surprised about pulpy dialogue in a tuk tuk and they memoryhole entire movies around the issue

 

see: Ghostbusters, a mediocre cynical comedy that Hollywood and fans now pretend to have been something else entirely

 

 

 

on a different note, i'm right now thinking a lot on how Uncharted incorporated the soap opera elements and retroactive continuity in a non cloying way (for me), as opposed to whatever Kingdom is

[Chen G. 3,949]

22 minutes ago, Brónach said:

on a different note, i'm right now thinking a lot on how Uncharted incorporated the soap opera elements and retroactive continuity in a non cloying way (for me), as opposed to whatever Kingdom is

 

A lot of anthologies try to incoporate cyclical elements (tying the entries together into a story) in recent years: The Craig Bonds did it beginning with SPECTRE, and it didn't work very well; and Mission Impossible started doing it beginning with Fallout (and presumably with the next two entries) and for the meanwhile I'm not feeling it either.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

23 minutes ago, Brónach said:

nothing quite could have prepared me for the low key misogyny bubbling here and there in fandoms around certain things.

TLJ (and to a lesser extent TFA) online reaction was a sign of things to come.  

 

It's like an industrial complex of feigned outrage that can't be stopped

[Holko 9,529]

46 minutes ago, Brónach said:

nothing quite could have prepared me for the low key misogyny bubbling here and there in fandoms around certain things.

Not even the public discourse of the past 10 years?

[Brónach 1,302]

public discourse about women in fiction? i don't know, to me it came out of nowhere

[Edmilson 7,466]

56 minutes ago, Brónach said:

see: Ghostbusters, a mediocre cynical comedy that Hollywood and fans now pretend to have been something else entirely

I've never been a fan of Ghostbusters. Only watched it once and didn't care for it. But of course, since people saw it as kids, now they think it's an absolute masterpiece.

 

Well, since my childhood was in the early 2000s, I hereby declare the live-action Scooby-Doo from 2002 as a classic.

 

It's not good, but it made me happy as a child. Just like Ghostbusters.

[Brónach 1,302]

there's this weird late stage sequel that treats it like it was E.T. or something

[Tom 4,664]

1 hour ago, Brónach said:

I won't give you an explanation, but once Indy 6 is released with the Tintin crossover, it will make sense of everything.

I heard they were already filmed and in the bag.  

[TolkienSS 407]

5 hours ago, mstrox said:

I think the issue is they’re trying to tell character stories about 700 million year old fellas and there are only so many ways you can go.

 

The issue is they made this movie to undermine and kill the Indiana Jones character, but were caught early doing so, so they recut it to make it less offensive - and in doing so, took the movie's entire reason to exist, and left the movie to stand on its story and character crafting, which were never the important focus of the creeps and creepettes at Lucasfilm.

[mstrox 6,651]

I didn’t think there was anything that would make me want to see this movie really succeed, but it turns out all it takes is seeing a whole bunch of adult babies diarrheaing their diapers about the death of real masculinity!

[Bellosh 3,419]

2 minutes ago, mstrox said:

diarrheaing their diapers about the death of real masculinity!

 

 

[Brónach 1,302]

I can't believe Uncharted 4 was set to undermine and kill the Nathan Drake character because he was being an ass.

[Nick1Ø66 4,718]

1 hour ago, Bellosh said:

There's some serious spoiler chat going on over at the raven forums for anyone interested 

 

Ha! I just checked it out. The Marion bit is almost exactly the kind of thing I predicted above, just a different callback. Sounds sort of sweet, actually.

 

Had no idea that Raven forum even existed.

[Bellosh 3,419]

1 minute ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

 

Ha! I just checked it out. The Marion bit is almost exactly the kind of thing I predicted above, just a different callback. Sounds sort of sweet, actually.

 

Had no idea that Raven forum even existed.

 

it was a fun place to be online in 2008. (probably could say that for most social media/forums for the time)

 

very non-toxic kotcs discussion. just some overall good fans.  it was down for quite some time though over the past years, mainly why I never go there any more. the only discussion these days there is DoD for obvious reasons.

[pete 907]

10 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

 

Ha! I just checked it out.

 

Me too! Ha, I saw a lot of spoilers blacked out... in the spoiler thread. Wtf??

[Nick1Ø66 4,718]

1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

 

Those examples are very, very different to Indiana Jones. Either through the nature of the character (as introduced, old Ben is the old mentor type, not the swashbuckler type) or the nature of the film itself: do you really want an Indy film that's like Unforgiven!?

 

Funny, was Mangold was announced as the director, the first thing I thought of was Unforgiven. Could a film like that have worked? Possibly. Would it have really been an Indiana Jones film? Definitely not.

[Tom 4,664]

37 minutes ago, mstrox said:

I didn’t think there was anything that would make me want to see this movie really succeed,

You don't want it to succeed for Williams's sake?  I really wanted/want his last big blockbuster score to go with a true blockbuster movie.  

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

40 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

 

 

I screamed when he showed up in the trailer

[pete 907]

Kind of surprised to learn about Marion. I remember thinking their falling in love again and marriage in Crystal Skull seemed forced. Happy to hear her theme again though, especially if Williams varies it a bit to fit the scenes it's used in - solo instrument etc

[Romão 2,274]

1 hour ago, Brónach said:

there's this weird late stage sequel that treats it like it was E.T. or something

 

Indeed. Afterlife was so reverential to the original Ghostbusters that it is almost of contradiction of the spirit of the original movie. It's like that movie was made as sequel to the status the first movie gained in pop culture rather than as s sequel to the movie itself 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,544]

10 hours ago, mrbellamy said:

 

Since this is the spoiler thread, from what I'm gathering I believe it does end with them back together. 

 

10 hours ago, Brónach said:

it was planned from the beginning

 

Somehow, Marion returned.

[Brónach 1,302]

7 hours ago, Tom said:

You don't want it to succeed for Williams's sake?  I really wanted/want his last big blockbuster score to go with a true blockbuster movie.  

 

 

I actually feel awful for JW in general.

 

[Bilbo 3,709]

10 hours ago, JTWfan77 said:

Bernard Shaw as Theoden

Bernard Hill 😂

[Brónach 1,302]

does the mute button no longer exist?

[Naïve Old Fart 9,544]

14 hours ago, Brónach said:

nothing quite could have prepared me for the low key misogyny bubbling here and there in fandoms around certain things.

 

Could you explain?

 

 

14 hours ago, Brónach said:

Ghostbusters, a mediocre cynical comedy that Hollywood and fans now pretend to have been something else entirely

 

Although the Bill Murray character is a bit cynical, I've never thought of GHOSTBUSTERS as a cynical film. I mean, it's not ACE IN THE HOLE, or THE SWEET SMELL OF SUCCESS.

 

 

13 hours ago, Brónach said:

there's this weird late stage sequel that treats it like it was E.T. or something

 

Perish the thought!

[Bespin 8,483]

Any mention to the Bermuda's triangle finally?

[Brónach 1,302]

2 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Could you explain?

 

the main situation I've seen is that women doing things in fiction is a concrete threat against some in the audience. (Another is "I can't masturbate to this"). Some of these are in contradiction with each other so it changes like a roulette. You see this in both the transformative and curatorial fandoms, and also in straight women who read/write for some reason.

 

On top of this, there are very clever and organized radicalization campaigns that use highly marketed fiction as tools for recruitment. I THINK this happens mostly to curatorial fandoms but I'm not sure. It results in all of the above but with increased conspiratorial thinking.  It puts the "victims" for the lack of a better word in contact with unsavory types until it turns out that they can't leave because the have been engulfed in the social network.

54 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Perish the thought!

 

I meant more the tone, than the quality.

[mstrox 6,651]

6 hours ago, Brónach said:

does the mute button no longer exist?

You have to go into your profile settings - Account>Ignored Users.  Then you can type in a user name to ignore that person.