Composer Threads The Hans Zimmer Thead

[Manakin Skywalker 4,897]

[JTN 2,047]

Are you talking to me, @Bellosh?

[Bellosh 3,419]

Yes. Just let it be. People will forget all this. Just be chill.

 

I took a serious L here a couple months ago with a comment to a user. Hard to own up to but I think it was for the best.

 

@Manakin Skywalker coming in for the low hanging reputation points. That's gonna do numbers. Respect.

[Space Pineapple Prod. 183]

9 minutes ago, JTW said:writing my honest opinion in a Private Message to another member. 

9 minutes ago, JTW said:

I had some thoughts about him and I chose to write them to HIM in a Private Message and thought he would take it like a man. He instead reported

me to the mod and I got banned for a month. 6 months later the mod absolutely unethically publically discloses it after I was already punished for writing my honest opinion in a Private Message to another member. 
 

 

i want you to read this slowly, assess whether you’re making any sense at all, and then return your audacity back up your asshole. 

[LB Makes Stuff 240]

Man I stop looking at the forums for 3 days and shit goes down

[JTN 2,047]

I’m not mad, my friend. 
Forget what? That I was called nasty things in another thread? I’m not reporting him for that. I take it like a man, because if I got offended by every single insult thrown at me, the moderator wouldn’t have time to post from all the bans he should give. I’m not the one who should grow up. Those should grow up who can’t take

any valid criticism about a composer. 

[Space Pineapple Prod. 183]

1 minute ago, JTW said:

Those should grow up who can’t take

any valid criticism about a composer. 

Then I suggest you post a valid criticism. 
 

signed: somebody who hates Hans Zimmer with a passion. 

[HunterTech 994]

Okay, but I thought the point of being here was to discuss the things we like with like minded folk? Kind of hard for that to come across if apparently I'm supposed to take shit flinging allegedly disguised as criticism as if it's nothing.

[JTN 2,047]

5 minutes ago, Space Pineapple Prod. said:

i want you to read this slowly, assess whether you’re making any sense at all, and then return your audacity back up your asshole. 

Sorry, my

friend, not reporting you for being rude. 

[Space Pineapple Prod. 183]

Just now, JTW said:

Sorry, my

friend, not reporting you for being rude. 

There’s a line between “rude” and “insulting somebody as a person”

 

find it. 

[JTN 2,047]

Just now, HunterTech said:

I'm supposed to take shit flinging allegedly disguised as criticism as if it's nothing.

I posted a link for Lukas Kendall’s post. Have you read it?

Just now, Space Pineapple Prod. said:

find it. 

No thanks.

[Space Pineapple Prod. 183]

Just now, JTW said:

I posted a link for Lukas Kendall’s post. Have you read it?

Yes, but don’t pretend that’s all you said. 

[JTN 2,047]

I wasn’t asking you, but @HunterTech

[Space Pineapple Prod. 183]

Just now, JTW said:

I wasn’t asking you.

And you still haven’t addressed the main part of the comment. Don’t pretend that’s all you said. 

[HunterTech 994]

I wasn't referring to that with the previous post

[mstrox 6,651]

3 hours ago, Edmilson said:

suck Zimmer's cock as much as you want

[JTN 2,047]

1 minute ago, Space Pineapple Prod. said:

And you still haven’t

And you still don’t get that I wasn’t talking to you, my friend.

[Space Pineapple Prod. 183]

1 minute ago, JTW said:

And you still don’t get that I wasn’t talking to you, my friend.

And you don’t get that this conversation is between everybody in here. This is a forum. If you want only HunterTech to answer you, I suggest you message him directly. But you know how that might turn out. 

[JTN 2,047]

1 minute ago, HunterTech said:

I wasn't referring to that with the previous post

And I was referring to that post that had a very valid point/criticism about the Zimmer-effect that I happen to agree with. 
No one was forced to read that post by Lukas, they could have just ignored it if they didn’t want to hear any criticism of the appreciated person of this thread. 

3 minutes ago, Space Pineapple Prod. said:

And you don’t get that this conversation is between everybody in here. This is a forum. If you want only HunterTech to answer you, I suggest you message him directly. But you know how that might turn out. 

Anything to add about Hans Zimmer? Or you’ll just keep provoking me?

[Space Pineapple Prod. 183]

He’s literally pretending that the Kendall article is the only thing he posted. 

4 minutes ago, JTW said:

Anything to add about Hans Zimmer? Or you’ll just keep provoking me?

No, I actually agree that the Zimmer effect is problematic and I quite dislike a lot of his music. 

Is he still a human being worthy of common decency? Yes. 

[Alex 2,835]

HZ wrote the best Bond score since Casino Royale, I’ll give him that.

[Space Pineapple Prod. 183]

2 minutes ago, Alex said:

HZ wrote the best Bond score since Casino Royale, I’ll give him that.

Which one is that, so I can find it?

[JTN 2,047]

15 minutes ago, Space Pineapple Prod. said:

Is he still a human being worthy of common decency?

Who and when said he wasn’t? In fact I do like some of his early scores. And guess what: I went to not just one, but two of his concerts. And I have several of his and his team’s scores

on CD. So maybe I or anyone else should be allowed to criticize him even in this thread without being insulted all the time.

[Space Pineapple Prod. 183]

Also, to turn the conversation more positive, can we just take a moment to appreciate how beautiful the entirety of The Lion King (1994) is?

Just now, JTW said:

Who and when said he wasn’t? In fact I do like some of his early scores. And guess what: I went to not just one, but two of his concerts. And I own several of his and his team’s scores. So maybe I or anyone else should be allowed to criticize him even in this thread without being insulted all the time.

Okay but like, why be negative in an appreciation thread? I literally do not understand the logic behind it. There are so many other threads to criticize him in and you chose the one thread that’s dedicated to Zimmer positivity?

[JTN 2,047]

2 minutes ago, Space Pineapple Prod. said:

Also, to turn the conversation more positive, can we just take a moment to appreciate how beautiful the entirety of The Lion King (1994) is?

Agreed. Co-composed by Nick Glennie-Smith, Mark Mancina, Alex Wurman and Elton John.

[Space Pineapple Prod. 183]

1 minute ago, JTW said:

Agreed. Co-composed by Nick Glennie-Smith, Mark Mancina, Alex Wurman and Elton John.

Lebo M as well. 

[Bellosh 3,419]

Zimmer's Batman theme was perfect for the films

[Space Pineapple Prod. 183]

Zimmer’s contributions to the world of virtual instruments and plugins is invaluable

[Edmilson 7,474]

8 minutes ago, Space Pineapple Prod. said:

Also, to turn the conversation more positive, can we just take a moment to appreciate how beautiful the entirety of The Prince of Egypt (1998) is?

9 minutes ago, JTW said:

Fixed. Lion King is good, but Prince of Egypt is by far his best animated score.

[JTN 2,047]

10 hours ago, Space Pineapple Prod. said:

Okay but like, why be negative

Why is stating facts being negative? You deliberately want to believe a lie about someone? 
I understand that to some Zimmer is a great composer, but most people who adore his work have no idea that he has an entire legion of ghostwriters working on his scores and in the main credit it reads “Music by Hans Zimmer”.

And he alone wins the awards and gets paid millions of dollars. It’s simply not true that he composes his scores. And I don’t want to mention the quality

because ultimately that’s a matter of taste.

I for one don’t like people who use other people’s work as their own and only give them credit in a little liner note in a CD booklet. Imho it’s unfair. 
I don’t think that the truth means being negative, because the truth should set you free. No one should worship fake idols. There are so many truly talented film composers out there who actually write their own music. 
With all that said, like I said, I do own some Zimmer & Co. scores. I consider him a music producer who can produce entertaining soundtracks. E.g. I like WONDER WOMAN 1984.

 

[Space Pineapple Prod. 183]

7 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Fixed. Lion King is good, but Prince of Egypt is by far his best animated score.

Have yet to listen. Actually, have yet to see, which is a crime. 

[JTN 2,047]

10 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Prince of Egypt

I like that a lot. Klaus Badelt, Harry & Ruper Gregson-Williams wrote additional music. 

[Space Pineapple Prod. 183]

1 minute ago, JTW said:

Why is stating facts being negative? You deliberately want to believe a lie about someone? 
I understand that to some Zimmer is a great composer, but most people who adore his work have no idea that he has an entire legion of ghostwriters working on his scores and in the main credit it reads “Music by Hans Zimmer”.

And he alone wins the awards and gets paid millions of dollars. It’s simply not true that he composes his scores. And I don’t want to mention the quality

because ultimately that’s a matter of taste.

I for one don’t like people who uses other people’s work as their own and only give them credit in a little liner note in a CD booklet. Imho it’s unfair. 
I don’t think that the truth is being negative, because the truth should set you free. No one should worship fake idols. There are so many truly talented film composers out there who actually write their own music. 
With all that said, like I said, I do own some Zimmer & Co. scores. I consider him a music producer who can produce entertaining soundtracks. E.g. I like WONDER WOMAN 1984.

 

I think most people in this thread are well aware that “Music by Hans Zimmer” means “music by RCP” in most cases. Still though, Zimmer is the primary credit, so it makes sense to call this a Zimmer appreciation thread. Even a Zimmer & Co. score is still a Zimmer score. Zimmer is a talented musician with talented musicians on his team, and these musicians have nothing but wonderful things to say about him. 
 

That’s what this thread is about. 

[Edmilson 7,474]

13 minutes ago, Space Pineapple Prod. said:

Have yet to listen. Actually, have yet to see, which is a crime. 

The movie is a masterpiece of traditional animation. I loved it as a kid and even as an adult I think it's my favorite "Moses movie" of all time.

 

Zimmer (plus HGW, RGW, Badelt, etc) are a big part of why it is so good.

[JTN 2,047]

16 minutes ago, Space Pineapple Prod. said:

these musicians have nothing but wonderful things to say about him. 

Yes I know, I spoke with John Powell and Geoff Zanelli about Zimmer. He treats them (his protégés) fairly, provides them with opportunities after ghosting for him, and recommends them for solo projects. That’s why I said he’s a good producer. 
Unfortunately the “Zimmer-sound” has become so generic at this point because it wasn’t created solely by him, and whenever one of his protégés do a score, we hear Zimmer, because they wrote additional music in a Zimmer score that we later recognize in their solo efforts. E.g. you hear Batman Begins in Jablonsky’s Transformers. 
I wouldn’t have a problem with HZ if he wasn’t regarded as a genius, the greatest film composer of all time. He’s a good craftsman, a decent composer, especially when he started out in the 80s, early 90s. But he’s

nowhere near the level of the greats. But of course I don’t *hate* him, and especially don’t hate Anyone who likes his music. 

6 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

The movie is a masterpiece of traditional animation.

Absolutely. Beautiful film.

[GerateWohl 4,373]

It was discussed in this forum several times that this ghostwriter topic isn't Hans Zimmer specific. It also applies to many or even most others, like for example James Horner for some scenes just giving rough ideas to his orchestrators and let them actually do the composition. But Hans Zimmer is one of the few that in the meantime deals with it quite openly and that's a good thing.

Still I don't mind his music.

[Edmilson 7,474]

I'll be completely honest: I don't like this method of a score written by a huge number of people while the person that actually gets the "Music By" credit is just an umbrella term. In fact, I hate it.

 

It's not specifically to Zimmer - I hate when other composers do it too, including the man in my profile pic. I loved JNH's score to A Hidden Life, but I was extremely disappointed to know that someone got credited as additional composer. It's a 40-minute score, couldn't you write it on your own? 

 

John Williams scored 9 Star Wars, 5 Indiana Jones and lots of other Spielberg classics all on his own, Howard Shore did 6 Middle Earth epics, but you aren't capable of writing a 40 minute score without asking some dude that just left Musical college to write, what, half of it? A quarter? A third? All?

 

I love John Powell, his music makes me so good. But I genuinely hate that part of it (how much? Nobody knows or wants to tell) was written by other people. Which parts? The best ones? The not so good ones? Did you only have a supervising role, listening to their cues and saying "yeah, that's good enough" or "no, it needs more drama, put more horns into it"? Do you even deserve that "Music By" credit?

 

I think Corellia Chase from Solo is one of Powell's best action cues. But is it really? Or are we in fact listening to Batu Sener's masterpiece?

 

I know Zimmer or younger (born after 1960) composers aren't the only ones doing it though. According to some accounts, James Horner did it too. And it is so disappointing to me. How many Horner cues I loved since I was a teenager weren't written by him? Is the classic "The Launch" cue from Apollo 13 ghostwritten by some unknown? The Ludlows from Legends of the Fall? The love theme from Braveheart?

 

So much of the music I loved may not have been written by who I think wrote them, and this thought just drives me insane.

 

If these people were open about that and specifically tell "I never wrote anything, I just supervised" or "I wrote this, this and this cue, while my partner handled this and this cue", then I'd feel a lot better. Seriously, I was supper happy when the cue list for Kung Fu Panda (a score credited to Zimmer and Powell) more or less revealed which parts belonged to each composer. It made me appreciate that score a lot more now that I sort of know who did what.

 

Another positive example: the 2012 LLL expansion of Goldsmith's Star Trek: The Motion Picture reveals which cues were written by Fred Steiner. It made so much easier to appreciate what Goldsmith really did and what exactly were Steiner contributions. I don't blame Goldsmith for using help (it was a famously troubled production and recording), but rather I admire Steiner for writing a moving finale for the movie (A Good Start) and LLL for revealing that he was the responsible for this great cue.

 

It's just... maddening. At least since that disturbing Vanity Fair article was published the big ones started being more open about it (the Xander guy was credited for most of the Willow episodes instead of just JNH). But what about past scores? Really, can someone tell me which music I can credit to JNH, Horner, Powell, HGW, Zimmer and which to Xander, Balfe, Badelt, and all the others? Why be so secretive about it?

 

Why does every track in The Dark Knight's OST is credited to both Zimmer and JNH, even the ones that were clearly written by just one of them (the Joker and Harvey Dent themes)? It's ridiculous: two of JNH's most listened tracks on Spotify are just Batman themes that weren't written by him!

 

This is just a rant. And yeah, it stems more from my OCD of actually wanting to know the responsible for the music I like than anything. I could never be one of these "I don't care who the composer/s is/are as long as the music is good". I just... can't.

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,091]

7 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

Did you maybe consider not sending that disgusting message in the first place? The fact that it's revealed you for the character you really are is no one's fault but your own.

 

To be fair we don't know what else was said in that PM.

 

6 hours ago, Space Pineapple Prod. said:

Is he still a human being worthy of common decency?

 

He's more machine than man, now.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,554]

6 hours ago, Edmilson said:

The movie is a masterpiece of traditional animation. I loved it as a kid and even as an adult I think it's my favorite "Moses movie" of all time.

 

6 hours ago, JTW said:

Absolutely. Beautiful film.

 

Agreed. It's not only a good animated film, it's a very good film in its own right.

The "crossing the Red Sea" sequence, is tear-inducingly gorgeous, and goes way beyond what DeMille did, in 1956.

I'll go on record by saying that (whoever wrote it) I like the score - and the songs.

[filmmusic 1,843]

The only thing I don't like in The Prince of Egypt is the priests that act as a comic relief.

I think one such subject, shouldn't have comic reliefs.

Other than that, I agree it's a great film and score.

[Holko 9,532]

6 minutes ago, filmmusic said:

I think one such subject, shouldn't have comic reliefs.

IIRC they're not nearly as annoyingly distracting and intentionally anachronistic random pop culture reference spewers as the sidekicks in the Disney movies.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,554]

Oh, I think that they should be comic relief. They are ridiculous characters, in The Bible, and they are ridiculous characters in the film. They exist to illustrate the power of The Almighty, compared to their piddling little "gods" (yeah, right. No chance, mate).

"Playing With The Big Boys" is my favourite song, in PRINCE OF EGYPT. Martin and Short perform it, well. 

[JTN 2,047]

7 hours ago, Edmilson said:

I'll be completely honest: I don't like this method of a score written by a huge number of people while the person that actually gets the "Music By" credit is just an umbrella term. In fact, I hate it.

First let me say that yours is a VERY important and eloquent comment, one that I’m very grateful for, because this should be discussed much much more often. Because we’ve been fed a lie for decades and this has made many talented people’s lives miserable who never got the public recognition they deserve.

So thank you very much for writing it down, I really appreciate it.

 

And second, to answer your question WHY are they (the composers) so secretive about this? 
Because of ego and reputation. Eventually money. If producers and directors knew that some of the most memorable cues weren’t written by the people that are paid the big money, they just wouldn’t get paid that much. Why pay one person so much if they don’t write their scores alone? 
And someone like Hans Zimmer wants the world to think it’s him alone, or maybe, in the case of the Batman films, with another big composer he’s willing to share the credits with.

But he couldn’t be nominated for awards with co-composers. 
 

There are other reasons for sure, but ultimately it all comes down to money and ego. And if everyone is satisfied, the ghostwriter gets a pat on the back and a fairly handsome salary from Zimmer, and eventually their own project, they keep their mouths shut and the system never changes and thus film music suffers

and false idols are created and worshiped. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,091]

3 hours ago, filmmusic said:

The only thing I don't like in The Prince of Egypt is the priests that act as a comic relief.

I think one such subject, shouldn't have comic reliefs.

Other than that, I agree it's a great film and score.

 

What do you think of Life of Brian?

[filmmusic 1,843]

Just now, Jurassic Shark said:

 

What do you think of Life of Brian?

Haven't seen it, but if I know myself, I guess I wouldn't like it.

[Jurassic Shark 12,091]

Just now, filmmusic said:

Haven't seen it, but if I know myself, I guess I wouldn't like it.

 

I recommend seeing it.

[TolkienSS 407]

27 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

I recommend seeing it.

 

You sure if a thread on an internet forum is already too offensive?

 

 

 

 

 

😇

[GerateWohl 4,373]

1 hour ago, JTW said:

And second, to answer your question WHY are they (the composers) so secretive about this? 

Because of ego and reputation. Eventually money. If producers and directors knew that some of the most memorable cues weren’t written by the people that are paid the big money, they just wouldn’t get paid that much. Why pay one person so much if they don’t write their scores alone? 
And someone like Hans Zimmer wants the world to think it’s him alone, or maybe, in the case of the Batman films, with another big composer he’s willing to share the credits with.

But he couldn’t be nominated for awards with co-composers. 
 

There are other reasons for sure, but ultimately it all comes down to money and ego. And if everyone is satisfied, the ghostwriter gets a pat on the back and a fairly handsome salary from Zimmer, and eventually their own project, they keep their mouths shut and the system never changes and thus film music suffers

and false idols are created and worshiped. 

The one thing that I don't get in your argumentation is: If the composers are so secretive about it and want us to believe, that they did everything on their own, then how do we all know that this is not the case? Do we really have here some kind of secret knowledge, that even the film producers don't have, so they pay more money for the scores than they would If they knew what we know?

[JTN 2,047]

35 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

If the composers are so secretive about it and want us to believe, that they did everything on their own, then how do we all know that this is not the case?

It wasn’t me who first mentioned the composers being secretive about this, but Edmilson.
But since you asked me, let me give you an answer.

If more than two people know about something, it’s not a secret anymore. So many people are involved in creating a score to a film that it’s unavoidable that sooner or later the truth comes out. These ghostwriters are good composers in their own right and they have friends and family who they talk to. It’s not a C.I.A. operation after all. I guess it’s an open secret in the business.
Edmilson also mentioned the Vanity Fair article that shed some light on the subject for the mainstream audience. 

[GerateWohl 4,373]

20 minutes ago, JTW said:

It wasn’t me who first mentioned the composers being secretive about this, but Edmilson.
But since you asked me, let me give you an answer.

If more than two people know about something, it’s not a secret anymore. So many people are involved in creating a score to a film that it’s unavoidable that sooner or later the truth comes out. These ghostwriters are good composers in their own right and they have friends and family who they talk to. It’s not a C.I.A. operation after all. I guess it’s an open secret in the business.
Edmilson also mentioned the Vanity Fair article that shed some light on the subject for the mainstream audience. 

I was asking because I think, this is no secret at all. I even seem to remember seing track lists of scores on the RCP homepage that precisely mentioned for each and every cue who was involved creating it.