Composer Threads The Hans Zimmer Thead

[Jurassic Shark 12,093]

[Thor 7,521]

13 minutes ago, JTW said:

What emoticon should be used every time Zimmer appreciators just can’t help themselves and post disparaging remarks whenever there is a valid criticism about Zimmer?

 

You have about 1000 other threads you can post such criticisms, and it would all be fine. This is supposed to be the ONE thread, the ONE sanctuary that us Zimmer fans can get together and appreciate the man's talent and life without being annoyed by bashers who can't help themselves. But oh no, that would be too much to ask.

[JTN 2,048]

17 minutes ago, Thor said:

sanctuary

? What are you, fans or worshipers? You honestly say that you don’t understand the myriad of criticism that Zimmer has been getting for YEARS now? Have you read Lukas Kendall’s blog post? There are countless people, much more eloquent than I am, e. g. a very famous film composer friend of mine, who have voiced their criticism regarding Zimmer and the damage he’s done to Hollywood film music. Or Lukas Kendall, one of the biggest figures in the soundtrack industry just wrote about this. Why do you think all these criticisms are not valid? Why can’t you accept the opinions of those who don’t think that Zimmer is the god of music? Other composers write his music for him, for god’s sake. It’s not even a secret, it’s common knowledge. He has more ghostwriters than teeth. 
Yet in this “sanctuary” as you say, you worship the ground he walks on. On a site mainly dedicated to a truly great film composer, John Williams. I wouldn’t have said this if you hadn’t provoked me, but a “Hans Zimmer appreciation” thread is almost like an insult to those who enjoy truly great film music. If Zimmer has done anything, he has changed how the system works, for the absolute worse. He dumbbed down and made the Hollywood mainstream sound become a generic, boring, repetitive, lifeless noise being created in a factory, just like Disney does with their content. It’s a disgrace what Zimmer did to film music, and the fact that he’s worshiped by

the very people who eventually suffer the consequences of what he does by constantly lowering the level of quality, is sad and painful to witness. And that’s why things won’t change, because people have been conditioned to accept this kind of “music” and less and less people want unique, inventive scores that aren’t forgotten once the next score sounding just like those comes out. 

But since it’s your “sanctuary”, you won’t believe any valid criticism, because you don’t want to see the truth: that Hans Zimmer is a producer, not a composer, a has-been who uses other people to do his work for him and takes the money and credit for it. 

 

[Thor 7,521]

Classic strawman rhetoric there. While I'm a big fan, I obviously don't "worship" him. There are plenty of Zimmerisms I don't like, or am critical to. But in a film music forum like this that often thrives on cheap Zimmer dismissals and jokes in every other thread, it's great to have at least one small thread one can discuss his work from a fan point-of-view without being confronted with said cheap shots over and over and over again. Again, you have a gazillion other threads to express such things, and I would gladly engage with you in debate there -- providing the criticism actually has content.

 

It's about basic politeness. For example, I don't (generally) like Giacchino's work, but out of respect for the fans, I'm not entering the Giacchino appreciation thread here, spouting dismissals left and right. I'll reserve those comments for other threads, where relevant.

[JTN 2,048]

16 minutes ago, Thor said:

I'll reserve those comments for other threads, where relevant.

Name one. 
Again, why isn’t criticism allowed even in an “appreciation” thread? What are you so afraid of? That the criticisms are true? Maybe you should think about them and maybe find another composer who is more original and writes their own scores? 
 

And to be completely honest, I don’t *hate* Zimmer. It’s what he represents that I detest.

I enjoy some of “his” work, e.g. Rain Man, Driving Miss Daisy, Green Card or Backdraft. He used to have talent but got greedy and lazy and eventually unoriginal. 

[LSH 969]

2 hours ago, Thor said:

We need a 'rolling eyes' emoticon here, for every time the Zimmer critics just can't help themselves and post disparaging remarks in the 'appreciation' thread.

 

Congrats to Zimmer on the proposal!

 

Sorry, I was actually quite drunk and miserable.

[Thor 7,521]

2 hours ago, JTW said:

Name one. 
Again, why isn’t criticism allowed even in an “appreciation” thread?

 

It is, but as the parameters of this thread are set out, they need to come from a place of initial appreciation of the composer's work to begin with. For example fans of Zimmer discussing pros and cons of a new score. Not an agenda-based, negative 'crusade' from someone who generally dislikes the composer's work. We have many other threads for that.

 

My suggestion to you is to go to the search engine and type in 'zimmer' as the topic headline. You'll find many threads discussing individual scores (my search got 174 hits), or even some general ones that aren't specifically about appreciation. Here's one. Here's another. Here's a third. Etc., etc. Feel free to post any bile you want in any of those. I might even respond to some of it, depending on how constructive said criticism is. But not in this thread.

 

[GerateWohl 4,377]

50 minutes ago, JTW said:

Name one. 
Again, why isn’t criticism allowed even in an “appreciation” thread? What are you so afraid of? That the criticisms are true? Maybe you should think about them and maybe find another composer who is more original and writes their own scores? 
 

And to be completely honest, I don’t *hate* Zimmer. It’s what he represents that I detest.

I enjoy some of “his” work, e.g. Rain Man, Driving Miss Daisy, Green Card or Backdraft. He used to have talent but got greedy and lazy and eventually unoriginal. 

I am really not a Zimmer fan and share your criticism. But you argue a little like a guy who insists on using the only lady's room in a public building out of 20 restrooms because you don't see a point in those manners.

[mstrox 6,651]

I’m a Zimmer fan (well, not every score - but generally) and it clearly seemed like a joke and not a hard-hitting criticism.  A lot of ado over not very much, I’d say!

 

BTW, all public proposals are dreadful and this is a real mother

 

(edit - the co-composers proposing thing is what I’m talking about, not the Lukas article - sorry!)

[TolkienSS 407]

1 hour ago, JTW said:

Name one. 
Again, why isn’t criticism allowed even in an “appreciation” thread? What are you so afraid of? That the criticisms are true? Maybe you should think about them and maybe find another composer who is more original and writes their own scores? 
 

And to be completely honest, I don’t *hate* Zimmer. It’s what he represents that I detest.

I enjoy some of “his” work, e.g. Rain Man, Driving Miss Daisy, Green Card or Backdraft. He used to have talent but got greedy and lazy and eventually unoriginal. 

 

His company makes music that is, let's call it digestible, to a mass audience. We all know that mass audiences aren't the best judge of quality. 

[Koray Savas 2,251]

1 hour ago, JTW said:

Name one. 
Again, why isn’t criticism allowed even in an “appreciation” thread? What are you so afraid of? That the criticisms are true? Maybe you should think about them and maybe find another composer who is more original and writes their own scores? 
 

And to be completely honest, I don’t *hate* Zimmer. It’s what he represents that I detest.

I enjoy some of “his” work, e.g. Rain Man, Driving Miss Daisy, Green Card or Backdraft. He used to have talent but got greedy and lazy and eventually unoriginal. 

Because I created this thread to be an appreciation thread for Zimmer. If you want to criticize him, go make your own thread. No one is afraid of anything, it’s just annoying as fuck to constantly have to read the shit like you’re posting here.

 

This has been supported by the moderators for years. 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,554]

On 17/12/2022 at 9:46 AM, Aliandra said:

Hans Zimmer says that his favorite score that he has ever written is Interstellar:

 

 

 

That makes two of us 

[JTN 2,048]

1 hour ago, Koray Savas said:

This has been supported by the moderators for years. 

So has the kind of language used by people like you, yet I’m not complaining about it.

Have you read Lukas Kendall’s blog post? What do you think about it? Have you read my post? Do you deny the fact that Zimmer has been using ghostwriters for many years and that he gets all the credit and money for other people’s work? (The tiny “Additional Music by” section in the liner notes of CDs doesn’t count.)

Here’s a question for you, creator of this appreciation thread:

How can you appreciate a composer who doesn’t write his own scores alone, but with several co-composers?
I would really like to know your honest and polite opinion.

 

Shouldn’t it be a Zimmer and Co. Appreciation thread or a Remote Control Productions appreciation thread? 
 

And btw I wasn’t criticizing Zimmer, I simply put up a link by Lukas Kendall, nothing more. I only expressed my thoughts after Thor reacted to it.

[Edmilson 7,474]

4 hours ago, Thor said:

 

You have about 1000 other threads you can post such criticisms, and it would all be fine. This is supposed to be the ONE thread, the ONE sanctuary that us Zimmer fans can get together and appreciate the man's talent and life without being annoyed by bashers who can't help themselves. But oh no, that would be too much to ask.

Now you see what us Marvel and DC fans have to endure when every single thread about comic book movies contains the usual jokes, quips and melodramatic criticism about how these are "the death of cinema" 

 

Maybe we should create a "superhero appreciation thread"? Sure, that ain't much to appreciate about this subject right now, but still, I'd like a safespace where I can talk about how amazing Infinity War is without being "harassed" by the haters.

[GerateWohl 4,377]

21 minutes ago, JTW said:

So has the kind of language used by people like you, yet I’m not complaining about it.

Have you read Lukas Kendall’s blog post? What do you think about it? Have you read my post? Do you deny the fact that Zimmer has been using ghostwriters for many years and that he gets all the credit and money for other people’s work? (The tiny “Additional Music by” section in the liner notes of CDs doesn’t count.)

Here’s a question for you, creator of this appreciation thread:

How can you appreciate a composer who doesn’t write his own scores alone, but with several co-composers?
I would really like to know your honest and polite opinion.

 

Shouldn’t it be a Zimmer and Co. Appreciation thread or a Remote Control Productions appreciation thread? 
 

And btw I wasn’t criticizing Zimmer, I simply put up a link by Lukas Kendall, nothing more. I only expressed my thoughts after Thor reacted to it.

I would happily join that discussion, but not here. Please create a new thread for that. This is not the right place. 

[Thor 7,521]

36 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

I would happily join that discussion, but not here. Please create a new thread for that. This is not the right place. 

 

Same here. Insisting to discuss this matter further in this thread after we've provided several, more appropriate threads, seems rather petulant. I gave you three alternatives earlier, JTW. You're free to ressurect any of those, for example.

[Jay 37,374]

@JTW you're in the wrong here (again)

 

You are definitely welcome to discuss everything you're talking about in A DIFFERENT THREAD.

 

This exact thread is an appreciation thread, specifically, and clearly indicated as such. 

 

Take what you want to talk about to a different thread, and pay more attention next time to which thread you're in, please. Thank you. 

[JTN 2,048]

4 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

I would happily join that discussion, but not here. Please create a new thread for that. This is not the right place. 

Thanks for the polite comment. Some people think they have the right to act like we were in high school and they were the headmaster. 
 

I won’t create a new thread, I said everything I wanted.
I understood the headmaster’s

threat, so from now on only Hans Zimmer appreciation in this message thread. 
 

 

[Edmilson 7,474]

I mean, I posted the Lukas Kendall article on the Similarities thread yesterday (and didn't even mention Zimmer). If anyone wants to debate It, I encourage you to go there, since I think it's a rather interesting topic of discussion:

 

 

[Richard Penna 3,696]

Not this shit again...

 

It's not difficult - Zimmer's done some memorable scores, and also some terrible ones. It's nice to be able to discuss the better ones without constant interruptions from those who hate him and wish he'd never entered film music.

 

8 hours ago, JTW said:

Why can’t you accept the opinions of those who don’t think that Zimmer is the god of music?

 

I don't think John Williams is a God of music 100% of the time. I look forward to your acceptance of this in return, then we can carry on with our lives.

[JTN 2,048]

46 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

I don't think John Williams is a God of music 100% of the time. I look forward to your acceptance of this in return, then we can carry on with our lives.

Of course John Williams isn’t the god of music, either, no one in their right mind would ever think that (at least I hope so). 

[Brónach 1,302]

John Williams is the God of Music.

[Jay 37,374]

6 hours ago, JTW said:

 Some people think they have the right to act like we were in high school and they were the headmaster. 
 

I said everything I wanted.
I understood the headmaster’s

threat

 

This is a message board.  Message boards have moderators to enforce the rules.  You broke the rules.  You were then reminded of the rules.  Nothing unusual happened here, other than you starting an anti-Zimmer discussion in a thread specifically dedicated to appreciating his work.  Grow up.

[Edmilson 7,474]

1 hour ago, Richard Penna said:

It's nice to be able to discuss the better ones without constant interruptions from those who hate him and wish he'd never entered film music.

Oh, so now we can't criticize The Good German not only on this thread but also on every thread because it'll hurt the precious feelings of his sycophants/shills, right?

 

Keep this fucking thread for yourselves to suck Zimmer's cock as much as you want, but I won't stop saying what I actually think about him in other places because the kiddies will be sad.

[Jay 37,374]

wtf?

[Brónach 1,302]

oh come on you people are being unnecessarily aggressive. and i saw no "threats".

[Richard Penna 3,696]

 

1 hour ago, Edmilson said:

Oh, so now we can't criticize The Good German not only on this thread but also on every thread because it'll hurt the precious feelings of his sycophants/shills, right?

 

Sycophants? There's a difference between having a positive place of discussion, including 'oh, that's not the best one he's done, actually', and wanting to minimise discussion from those who only want to denigrate the composer.

 

If I were to post some negative thoughts I have on Star Wars, I wouldn't do it in an appreciation thread because although I feel my comments are just as valid, I know they aren't in keeping with those who want to discuss positively. I've put them elsewhere.

[HunterTech 994]

The big problem with this discussion is that people refuse to engage with the actual information that exists. The artistry of the film composer is so romanticized here that the notion that it could be a team effort is not given any modicum of respect. I can understand being underwhelmed with the end result much of the time, but when you ignore times when the composing process and difficulties with the studio is actually discussed from credible sources, it speaks of someone who has a serious grudge instead of having any legitimate grievances with the system. If this sounds too unreasonable as an observation, then I really don't know what to say that wouldn't be us regurgitating the same points.

[Bellosh 3,419]

We need an Appreciation thread for the definition of Appreciation. Or at least a lesson.

[Jurassic Shark 12,093]

Critical appreciation is the best appreciation. 

[Bellosh 3,419]

But nobody really gives a shit in an APPRECIATION thread....

 

I'm team stfu up in an appreciation thread. Get your keyboard diarrhea out in a non appreciation thread 

 

I own one Zimmer score for the record 

[JTN 2,048]

9 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

when done constructively

How is posting a link or stating facts not constructive? 

[Bellosh 3,419]

You're ignoring the fact that it's an appreciation thread. Nobody gives a shit if you want to be constructive.

 

Stop being obtuse 

[Richard Penna 3,696]

6 minutes ago, HunterTech said:

 it speaks of someone who has a serious grudge instead of having any legitimate grievances with the system.

 

It was very clear in the RoP thread, and similar here - those who have a fundamental, pathological aversion to a composer, their style of working process which is so strong that they cannot allow positive discussion of them to exist.

 

Probably also grievances come in too, such as with Zimmer's working process, but anyone who thinks that somehow self-policing a message board will result in Zimmer not getting his next assignment and a revolution in film music.... good luck.

[JTN 2,048]

15 minutes ago, HunterTech said:

someone who has a serious grudge instead of having any legitimate grievances with the system.

“And each score is effectively written by eight or nine musicians, working under the “brand name” of the guy with the track record who supervises.”

– Lukas Kendall

6 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

Stop being obtuse

Stop being rude.

[Bellosh 3,419]

Fair but just find an old Zimmer thread and bring your stuff there. Not that difficult.

 

I'm all for opinions. But leave the appreciation threads alone my dude

[Richard Penna 3,696]

What's being ignored here is that these appreciation threads don't ban posting of stuff like that... just put it somewhere else.

 

Like a thread discussing the best themes in RoP (pretty sure we had one of those) and someone barges in and says they're all crap and McCreary is a hack. Their comments are welcome on the forum, but no one could surely suggest that's the right time and place, considering the spirit of the thread.

 

And to provide what I feel is a non-positive, but appreciation-appropriate example comment: Inferno was extremely disappointing (less diplomatic: rubbish) after the wonderful Da Vinci  and A&D, with an overuse on electronics and harsh rhythms. However, I hated the film too, so I can only imagine that Howard's direction to Zimmer and the material wasn't what we hoped it might be.

[JTN 2,048]

29 minutes ago, Jay said:

Grow up.

Why do you need to be so rude, Jay? It’s not what you say, it’s HOW you say it that matters. I understand your point of you being the moderator, having “power” and enforcing the rules without you having to be condescending. I get it, you’re the moderator, I broke the rules, and I can’t criticize Hans Zimmer in the Hans Zimmer appreciation thread, so in the future I won’t criticize Hans Zimmer in this thread. 

[Bellosh 3,419]

11 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

What's being ignored here is that these appreciation threads don't ban posting of stuff like that... just put it somewhere else.

 

And the fact that people who think you just want to appreciate also don't think you can take criticism or even want to hear it.

 

That's not the case. We just don't want to read the same ole opinion over and and over and over again.

 

I don't care for the MCU. You know how many times I've stepped foot in a marvel thread here? Probably less than two times

 

[Jay 37,374]

6 hours ago, JTW said:

Why do you need to be so rude, Jay?

 

You called me a school headmaster after I was just doing my job. And I get annoyed having to explain things that should be obvious.  You were not the only one who made posts that go against the intent of this thread, but you did try to launch a discussion that absolutely belongs somewhere else.

 

And I'm the rude one? Nothing I said is as close to how rude you were to Maurizio, and I kind of can't believe you continue to post here like nothing happened after using our forum to send such hate towards another human, especially one that has done so much good for the industry and this forum over the years.  It's no wonder he doesn't post anymore. 

[TolkienSS 407]

1 hour ago, JTW said:

How is posting a link or stating facts not constructive? 

 

"Constructive" in the lingo of fake discussion interest means you can state your criticism, as long as it's formulated in such a backhanded way that you don't really mean it serious, and actually mean the opposite.

 

It usually ends with "that's just your opinion man".

[Jurassic Shark 12,093]

.

[Richard Penna 3,696]

52 minutes ago, TolkienSS said:

 

"Constructive" in the lingo of fake discussion interest means you can state your criticism, as long as it's formulated in such a backhanded way that you don't really mean it serious, and actually mean the opposite.

 

It usually ends with "that's just your opinion man".

 

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/constructive_criticism

 

Quote

Criticism intended to provide suggestions for improvement without insulting the recipient.

 

The fact that this needs to be pointed out is pathetic. As soon as you start attacking the composer personally you've lost the argument.

[JTN 2,048]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

I'm the rude one?

Yes you are VERY rude. The fact that you publically posted a Private Message that was sent 6 months ago is in fact more than rude, it’s something no one, ESPECIALLY a Moderator should have the right to do. You’re way out of line, Jay and it’s a shame that you think you have the moral right to act like this and you can do and say whatever you want and no rules apply to you. 
The fact that you publically post a Private Message sent between two members is disgusting. What went down between me and TownerFan was only OUR business and you may think that you have the right to publically use a member’s private message against a member, but I don’t think you should have the right to do that. 

[Tydirium 1,167]

8 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

I would happily join that discussion, but not here. Please create a new thread for that. This is not the right place. 

 

But why shouldn’t this thread be renamed to that? Considering the fact that people in this thread aren’t simply appreciating Hans Zimmer; in some cases they’re appreciating music that was verifiably composed by other people… It really only makes sense for it to be called “Hans Zimmer Appreciation Thread” if the music being discussed was actually composed by Hans Zimmer.

[Richard Penna 3,696]

6 minutes ago, JTW said:

Yes you are VERY rude. The fact that you publically posted a Private Message that was sent 6 months ago is in fact more than rude, it’s something no one, ESPECIALLY a Moderator should have the right to do. You’re way out of line, Jay and it’s a shame that you think you have the moral right to act like this and you can do and say whatever you want and no rules apply to you. 
The fact that you publically post a Private Message sent between two members is disgusting. What went down between me and TownerFan was only OUR business and you may think that you have the right to publically use a member’s private message against a member, but I don’t think you should have the right to do that. 

 

Did you maybe consider not sending that disgusting message in the first place? The fact that it's revealed you for the character you really are is no one's fault but your own.

 

(btw, either you think that was a suitable message, in which case that's sick, or you're angry because you know it wasn't in this case... you got what you deserved.)

[JTN 2,048]

Just now, Richard Penna said:

Did you maybe consider not sending

Again: That was ONLY between me and TownerFan. It was a Private Message meant for him from me. It’s none of your or anyone else’s business. Period.

[HunterTech 994]

11 minutes ago, Tydirium said:

in some cases they’re appreciating music that was verifiably composed by other people…

 

Except how exactly? This is part of what I mean when I say people don't actually engage with the legitimate facts, since HZ is so thorough about his credits often that he actually knows when not to put himself on the cuesheet. Take the first Madagascar for example, where it's super transparent about him only being available for half the time (this being the same year as Batman Begins) by the amount of tracks solely credited to others. And yet it's still a sole composition of his (Zooster's Breakout) that gets discussed the most from the series, so it's not exactly quite so simple as far as this topic goes.

 

4 minutes ago, JTW said:

Again: That was ONLY between me and TownerFan. It was a Private Message meant for him from me. It’s none of your or anyone else’s business. Period.

 

Well evidently he didn't agree if he felt like sending it to Jay. You don't seem exactly great at respecting wishes if he felt like you violated his space enough to report it to a mod.

[JTN 2,048]

4 minutes ago, HunterTech said:

Well evidently he didn't agree if he felt like sending it to

It’s a trend nowadays to simply report someone who writes someone anything else than compliments. I had some

thoughts about him and I chose to write them to HIM in a Private Message and thought he would take it like a man. He instead reported

me to the mod and I got banned for a month. 6 months later the mod absolutely unethically publically discloses it after I was already punished for writing my honest opinion in a Private Message to another member. 
 

[Bellosh 3,419]

You just gotta take the L for the time being dude.  Happens to some. Happens even to the best of us at times.

 

It's hard to own up to an L these days online. But I promise it will be for the best.