Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (James Mangold, June 30 2023)

[Wojo 2,453]

Hang on to your potato!

This is the main reason why the whole prequel idea is silly. In fact, I believe the movie was always supposed to be set in 1937, only for the date at the beginning to be changed at the eleventh hour. There's even a reference in the movie to the Japanese bombing Shanghai, which didn't happen until... late 1937.

It's a good film and a fun ride, so these things, originally, didn't bother me. And truthfully I didn't and don't remember the exact date when the Japanese bombed Shanghai.

The Japanese bombed Shanghai on two different occasions in the 1930s.

The time you and everyone else is thinking of occurred in 1937 as one of the first engagements of the Second Sino-Japanese War, which began in 1937 and became absorbed into World War II, and so it didn't end until 1945. The Shanghai seen in ToD does not show any signs of being under duress by Japanese occupation or Chinese resistance.

The earlier instance that the Japanese Navy would have bombed Shanghai was on January 28, 1932. The Japanese invaded and occupied Manchuria, in northeast China, adjacent to Korea, in 1931. Students in Shanghai protested the Manchurian Incident and occupation, and so the Japanese Navy bombed the city. The Chinese fought back, they reached a stalemate and then ceasefire, and tensions stewed for five more years.

THIS is the bombing that Indy was talking about.

Short Round's parents were a pair of young Chinese hippies that got themselves killed, leaving their son orphaned to become a pickpocket until Indy found him.

[Ollie 1,059]

Well I'll be damned.

There you have it.

My apologies to George Lucas.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I stand corrected.

[Wojo 2,453]

He still has to answer for the bit about Indy not being superstitious when he talks to Marcus before heading to Nepal.

Unless that's Indy's way of reassuring an old man that he'll be careful, and to fool the audience into thinking that everything we see will be "normal."

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Yes, I know.

Even with the Japanese bombings explained, that still leaves the inconsistencies with Raiders.

[Jay 37,369]

Wojo's post doesnt change anything. It was still WRITTEN and FILMED as a sequel to Raiders, and only changed to a prequel in post-production

It would have been better if neither film had a year attached at all, I say

[Hlao-roo 389]

Wojo's post doesnt change anything. It was still WRITTEN and FILMED as a sequel to Raiders, and only changed to a prequel in post-production

It would have been better if neither film had a year attached at all, I say

"A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away..."

[Jay 37,369]

Seriously, why not have them take place at an un-determined time?

They are fantasy stories anyway

[Wojo 2,453]

Wojo's post doesnt change anything. It was still WRITTEN and FILMED as a sequel to Raiders, and only changed to a prequel in post-production

It would have been better if neither film had a year attached at all, I say

From Empire:

Lucas: We made Temple Of Doom a prequel because we didn't want to use the same bad guys. We had ideas about the Monkey King. We had ideas for a haunted-castle movie but then Steve had just done Poltergeist and said, "I don't wanna do that again." We were struggling to come up with another MacGuffin. We couldn't find anything as good as the Lost Ark. We ended up with the Sankara Stones, which was a little obscure.

Capshaw: There's nothing like a Nazi for a bad guy. We didn't have a great bad guy.

[Ollie 1,059]

Seriously, why not have them take place at an un-determined time?

They are fantasy stories anyway

I remember thinking Raiders was some sort of Star Wars fantasy styled film when I first heard about it. Not sure where or when it took place.

[fommes 153]

Really? The time and place have been of significant importance in each Indy film, not only with regards to plot (period of the Nazis, the Commies, etc.), they're historical fiction adventures after all, but also with regards to the films of the era they pay homage to. They definitely don't take place at some undetermined time. See also The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles, which went as far as making the place & time as the title of each episode.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

He still has to answer for the bit about Indy not being superstitious when he talks to Marcus before heading to Nepal.

Unless that's Indy's way of reassuring an old man that he'll be careful, and to fool the audience into thinking that everything we see will be "normal."

Why would he tell the old curator about all the stuff that happened in TOD? I can imagine an abridged version being retold. But remember in Raiders when Indy asks Marcus if he wants to hear about the opening scene and Marcus replies, "not at all."

[Jacob 0]

In Raiders, Indy tells Marcus:

Oh, Marcus. What are you trying to do, scare me? You sound like my mother. We've known each other for a long time. I don't believe in magic, a lot of superstitious hocus pocus. I'm going after a find of incredible historical significance, you're talking about the boogie man. Besides, you know what a cautious fellow I am.

He survives Pangkot Palace, with its voodoo dolls, mind-altering poison, living heart removal, and the magical stones that glow near each other, and he STILL doesn't believe in magic and hocus pocus? You're a man of science, how can you be unable/unwilling to learn?

I think that line is more problematic (or at least curious) for Raiders itself than for the idea of Doom as a prequel, considering the light triggered booby trap in the idol temple.

The others could all be said to simply be mechanical, but how does breaking a beam of light trigger an ancient booby trap if not by magical hocus pocus?

And that he would know to stay out of the light indicates he's had prior experience with that sort of thing.

Makes for an almost ironic cognitive dissonance. Like he's encountered all these unexplainable phenomena and yet still doesn't openly acknowledge the supernatural.

[Faleel 5,355]

thats nothing compared to the fact that in Raider's Indy had no problem going after the Ark...but the Holy Grail? "This is a obsession.....i never understood it"? "Two Selfless Martyrs"!?!? WITW!?!?!?!?

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Indy doesn't acknowledge the supernatural. Why would he? It's just never seemed like discontinuity/plot hole to me. He goes on these quests and encounters extraordinary things, but part of the magic is that he returns to the school and he's just a boring professor of archaeology.

[Datameister 2,044]

Nah, the tone in the beginning of Raiders is pretty clear. Indy didn't believe in any of that, regardless of whether he was wearing a fedora or more professorial garb. TOD makes that seem like a pretty silly viewpoint, considering all the things that happened to him just a year prior.

And although the light-triggered booby trap is obviously silly and impossible if you really think about it - and I have - but there's never any indication that it's supposed to be supernatural. It's just another fun, cool booby trap.

[steb74 53]

It's just another fun, cool booby trap.

Yes! In the spirit of how the film(s) should be taken.

[Datameister 2,044]

And that spirit worked brilliantly...for Raiders, at least...

[steb74 53]

Yeah, well I think each Indy film was created for a slightly different audience/age group.

'Raiders' is the bottled lightning though ........well, for me at least

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Admittedly, Raiders is slightly more of a serious WWII action/adventure film. Although there are plenty of gags and over the top things, obviously. But you take it fairly seriously, or at least I do. Whether that was the intent or not, I don't know.

They becoming increasingly more silly and fantastic as they go on. The quality doesn't drop until Last Crusade, however, in my opinion. Even then, the movie is pretty great and obviously better than any popcorn entertainment released in the last decade. Each one has its own things going for it.

[Delorean90 42]

Nah, the tone in the beginning of Raiders is pretty clear. Indy didn't believe in any of that, regardless of whether he was wearing a fedora or more professorial garb. TOD makes that seem like a pretty silly viewpoint, considering all the things that happened to him just a year prior.

I've read some take it that Indy was kind of trying to get back to normal, to sort of block out what happened--and his reaction to Marcus is his way of playing it off. If you go along with this line of thinking, it kind of gives a nice arc to Indy's character from TOD to LC. Granted, it could've been executed better if it had been planned out (this sounds familiar...), but I can roll with it.

[Quintus 5,399]

The BBC has started showing its Christmas tv promo reel where various clips of movies it will be showing over the festive season flash across the screen by way of a compilation.

Harrison Ford crops up numerous times from various moments in KOTCS (Xmas day movie?) and I think, Aww man... he looked fuckin' awesome in that movie. He WAS Indiana Jones.

Why God, why?!

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

In the teaser for cowboys and aliens, he looks rather old (he looks like a grampa, which at over 60, he really is...). i dont know if that is intentional, but he was fine in kotcs just two years ago.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Somewhere your grandpa is laughing.

[Bellosh 3,419]

Indiana Jones movies on USA Network tonight/this weekend. All times US Eastern Standard.

Tonight

Kingdom of the Crystal Skull (uncut) 7:30 pm

Friday

Raiders of the Lost Ark 8:00 pm

Temple of Doom 10:35 pm

Saturday:

Raiders of the Lost Ark 3:00 pm

Temple of Doom 5:30 pm

Last Crusade 8:00 pm

Last Crusade 11:00 pm

Sunday:

Last Crusade: 1:00 pm

Temple of Doom 3:45 pm

Raiders of the Lost Ark 6:20 pm

Kingdom of the Crystal Skull (commercial free) 9:00 pm

Kingdom of the Crystal Skull (uncut) 10:57 pm

[Jay 37,369]

How does USA make any money showing Crystal Skull with no commercials? They gonna have ads running on the screen the whole time or something?

[Bellosh 3,419]

Who knows. It's good for these big channels to do it every so often. I know TNT usually does it for movies like Saving Private Ryan. But that's usually around Memorial Day or Veteran's Day.

[Henry B 50]

Uncut? Does that mean there will be extra scenes that actually make the relationships in the movie believable? If only.

[Wojo 2,453]

No, they put the F-bombs and titties of 57-y-o Karen Allen back into the movie.

[publicist 4,643]

No, they put the F-bombs and titties of 57-y-o Karen Allen back into the movie.

This is why it's w/o commercials. No one would dare.

[MSM 126]

Just funny (old) vid from YouTube: Harrison Ford on Indy 5:

[Koray Savas 2,251]

[Faleel 5,355]

LOL! but then again Cowboy's and Aliens......

[Richard Penna 3,694]

Hehehe.

But seriously, please don't, Ford. Lucas is not the man for story ideas.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I see richuk is no more. Welcome, Mr. Penna

[Richard Penna 3,694]

Yeap. Got tired of that screen name - this is the real me

[crocodile 8,017]

This sounds a whole lot like George Lucas' "original intent" talk, you know that?

Karol

[Jay 37,369]

Shia Lebouf says Indiana Jones 5 is "not far off"

http://www.slashfilm...5-shia-labeouf/

I talked to Harrison. He said he's staying in the gym. He said that he's heard no word, but he does know that George [Lucas] is out there looking for a MacGuffin. But he said to me he's staying in the gym, so that means it's not so far off.

[Datameister 2,044]

I think it'll be very interesting to see what happens with the fifth film, if it indeed gets made. I get the impression that the whole aliens thing never sat real well with Spielberg, and obviously, the film wasn't a huge success in terms of public opinion. It'll be interesting to see if there's an effort to get back to what made the series so successful, or if Lucas manages to force his will onto the whole production again, or if Spielberg can't reach an agreement with him until some key member of the cast or crew expires.

I will say that despite its numerous flaws, KOTCS was very enjoyable to me...much more in line with the quality of the originals than, say, the prequels were with the OT. That's probably due to Spielberg's influence...he may not be the filmmaker he once was, but he doesn't share the flaws that have grown stronger and stronger in Lucas over the years.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

i suppose every director and producer would like their film to 'bomb' like KOTCS did...

I agree with your second paragraph

[Brónach 1,302]

he may not be the filmmaker he once was

He might not have the kind of balls he once had, but young Spielberg wishes he could shoot a film the way old Spielberg can.

[fommes 153]

So it's not far off because Ford does fitness...?

[Brónach 1,302]

To me that's very far off...

[Quintus 5,399]

Shia Lebouf says Indiana Jones 5 is "not far off"

http://www.slashfilm...5-shia-labeouf/

I talked to Harrison. He said he's staying in the gym. He said that he's heard no word, but he does know that George [Lucas] is out there looking for a MacGuffin. But he said to me he's staying in the gym, so that means it's not so far off.

So if the MacGuffin still hasn't been decided on that means there's nowhere near a working script in existence which means this film is AT LEAST four years away, by which time Ford will be 70+.

Lol, piss off, Lucas.

[Brónach 1,302]

A good team of writers would have written one or two scripts by now. The McGuffin is... well a McGuffin. It isn't really that important.

[Incanus 5,715]

A good team of writers would have written one or two scripts by now. The McGuffin is... well a McGuffin. It isn't really that important.

Just leave it to David Koepp to finish it off.

[Brónach 1,302]

I think Koepp could actually write an interesting script for Indiana Jones. But the way they developed Indy 4 was a mess.

[Quintus 5,399]

A good team of writers would have written one or two scripts by now. The McGuffin is... well a McGuffin. It isn't really that important.

A good team of writers? Ugh, scripting by committee is always a baaaad idea.

As for Koepp, well he can just sod off an all.

[Henry B 50]

Koepp is just awful.

[Brónach 1,302]

A good team of writers would have written one or two scripts by now. The McGuffin is... well a McGuffin. It isn't really that important.

A good team of writers? Ugh, scripting by committee is always a baaaad idea.

Not necessarily, and many scripts come to mind. But all right. A good writer then. Hypothetically speaking, who would we choose?