Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

[Romão 2,274]

I once read somewhere, written half-jokingly, that WB stuck with Snyder because he made movies that could be cut down into great trailers. Now I get the sense it might actually be true (not that I think the BvS trailers were that great to start with)

[A24 4,346]

When I first saw the teaser for Watchmen, I wanted to see this film. Except a falling smiley badge, the teaser showed nothing. Now those were the days!

 

 

Score at RT is now 41% and rising ...

 

 

Alex

[Sweeping Strings 2,363]

There's praise for Affleck and Gadot ... but overlong, overloaded and almost relentlessly dour seems to be the general consensus on this. 

In other words, nothing's been learned from Man Of Steel. I don't think I'll bother. 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

What's Batman's kill count? Does he use automatic weapons or explosives? Missiles? How brutal are his tactics?

[Quintus 5,399]

Next up from Snyder: found footage sci-fi thriller The Visitors. 

[crocodile 8,019]

Maybe it is a misunderstood masterpiece... like... Blade Runner. Or Vertigo!

 

Karol

[JoeinAR 1,949]

3 out of 6. Nobody uses 6 as a scale. 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

At least they aren't doing another pussy version of Batman with a ''no killing'' rule and no weapons going up against terrorist organizations. He needs to kill. This is the 21st century. These bastards are armed with automatic weapons, chemical weapons, bombs etc. No killing? Batman would be dead and so would everyone else. Kill! Kill! Kill!

[Cerebral Cortex 3,357]

20 hours ago, Incanus said:

Did we actually have hopes for this film?

 

 

[A24 4,346]

33% and 137 reviews counted at RT.

8.2 on IMDb

 

Something's not right here ...

 

 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Critics are just Marvel fanboys.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

8 minutes ago, Alexcremers said:

33% and 137 reviews counted at RT.

8.2 on IMDb

 

Something's not right here ...

 

 

The IMDB rating is temporarily held up by fradulent 10/10 votes spammed by fanboys.  It's utterly unreliable.  

[BloodBoal 7,538]

All those websites rating are unreliable! The only reliable opinion is within yourself!

[A24 4,346]

No, I truly believe the critics aren't pleased with BvS: DOJ. And indeed, IMDb's score will get lower as more people see the film.

[nightscape94 965]

Saw reviewers calling it incoherent.  How that's surprising to anyone based on the number of characters in this movie is beyond me.  This movie is way too overstuffed.  There's probably like 3 movies in there somewhere.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

First half of the film is done. Intermission now.

 

It's good, convoluted plot wise, but everything seems to be going somewhere. And far less exposition then MOS so far. Snyder is telling this story more visually this time. And the return of Larry Fong is a huge plus! 

 

I wonder if those who dislike this also dislike Watchmen?

 

Hope the second half is as good.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I know....I know 

[Loert 2,515]

Did it have an overture as well?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Of course not. And the break occurs mid-fucking-sentence!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

I know who the killer is! It's...

 

INTERMISSION

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

24 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

I know who the killer is! It's...

 

Superman?  

[BloodBoal 7,538]

I don't know. The intermission isn't over yet!

[Jay 37,373]

Movie theaters shouldn't be allowed to add intermissions to films that don't have one. I'm glad this "trend" hasn't caught on in America.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Are you saying US cinemas didn't have intermissions for decades?

[Jay 37,373]

What? There's no intermissions here at all, unless it's a special occasion like that Hateful Eight version.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

I wish they'd bring intermissions and overtures back.

[Jay 37,373]

I'm not talking about filmmakers that choose to include them, I'm talking about European movie theaters adding their own into films that don't have them.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Batman v Superman: Dawn Of Justice

 

 

SPOILERS! DO NOT READ BEYOND THIS POINT IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENS.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Or Batman Begins Again v Man Of Steef Two: Justice League Movie Set Up

 

The film starts with a retelling of the killing of Bruce Wayne's parents and the scene where he falls in the well. Both have been seen before so It seems redundant at first. But it actually becomes a vital scene later on in the movie.

It's interesting to see how this scene is handled by Snyder, like a nightmare that won't ever go away. Highly stylized with gliding shots from above, slow motion and vivid almost macro photography like close ups with one aspect in blinding focus (the gun that kills the Waynes while everything else is obscured). This is Zack Snyder unshackled to the extent that he isnt asked to make a Batman film that is just like the Nolan trilogy.

 

The opening scene is followed up by a recap from the huge epic battle from Man Of Steef, seen though the eyes of an now older Bruce Wayne, from ground level as the Kryptonions cause masses of damage and kill thousands without it barely registering. As Wayne's building in Metropolis is brought down and "his" people are wounded or killed the first seed of hatred between the Batman and Superman begins to grow.

In the 18 month aftermath Wayne becomes obsessed with Superman and sees him as an someone with the potential to kill millions. He still fights crime but has slowly become more violent and cruel, brandishing his victims like cattle. Even though the mark of Batman is rumoured to get these people killed in jail. Which in turn attracts the attention of Superman, who's alarmed by this apparently violent and unhinged vigilante.

 

So far the seeds for the eventual strife are sown quite well, and Lex Luthor enters the stage to start cultivating the hate.

Like Batman he is convinced that Superman must be destroyed. If Superman is a God, then he is evil, since no God can be benign in this cruel world. And if he is a false deity, then he must die for his deceit. It's the kind of mentality used in the middle ages during witch hunts.

 

Lex Luthor is a seriously insane character. And functions in this film as part puppet master, part circus ringleader. Constantly trying to frame both The Dark Knight and the Man Of Steel for things they didnt do.

 

One of the question many had was why Batman and Superman would fight each other. The motivations in the plot are actually very convincing. Though in the end Lex does have to kidnap Martha Kent to force Superman to do his bidding. (Batman's rage at that point has become so extreme that he needs no external motivation.)

 

But the big setup for this fight is only part of the story. There's the setup for the third act, and the next movie. Mainly in the guise of a mysterious young woman who turns up at a couple of places Bruce Wayne does. And like him looking for something.

 

Then there's the Kryptonite sub plot, and the one where Lex Luthor actually creates the huge beast thing that have to be fought once Batman and Superman realize they are actually on the same side.

 

The film has a lot of plot threads that it's juggles at the same times. And for the most part they actually co exist very well. We get a good sense of the new Batman and and Alfred (both actors convincingly playing them like they have known each other forever and have been at this lark for 20 years. Iron's Alfred is wonderfully dour).

At the same time a fair amount of attention is paid to Clark Kent's personal life, his job as the Planet, his relationship with Lois and indeed his role as Superman and how his actions are interpreted by the world (America). There's an excellent scene which is a montage of Superman performing all kinds of superfeats for the benefit of mankind, many of the gorgeous iconic shots that appear in the trailers. These are intercut by talking heads on TV, debating Superman, his actions, defending him, questioning what his existence means.

 

Eventually Batman and Superman start their epic fight. Batman because he feels he must. The Superman is a menace and MUST be destroyed, Superman because Lex Luthor will kill his mother is he doesnt.

The fight is actually very good. Batman wears an Ironman suit to give it some credibility, and naturally Kryptonite is his friend. Batman gets the upper hand and in his rage almost kills Superman with a Krytonite spear, until he heart the name Martha. The name of Clark Kent's mother, who he begs to save. But also the name of Bruce Wayne's mother. The last word to cross the lips of Bruce's father before he dies. And then the opening scene becomes clear. I have no idea of Martha was indeed the name of Bruce Wayne mum in the comics or other films. but for the sake of this new cinematic universe it is, and it works because it turns the Batman,m who had becomes a viscous monster back into Bruce Wayne. Once he realizes Superman has a mommy too.

This could have been dreadful, but it actually works. Mainly thanks to Ben Affleck's strong portrayal as Batman, who is  ab east here with so many issues that he makes Bale's version look well adjusted.

 

Up to this point the film, while convoluted actually holds together really well. But ofcourse no modern 200+ million dollar film can end like that, so Lex's Kryptonian beast is unleashed. In a birth that looks a lot like how the Uruk Hai were created in FOTR. (at one point the beast actually resembles the Moria cavetroll too).

From there it's essentially a big epic fightscene between Superman and Batman (who are buddies now) and the mystery woman turns up with all kinds of powers. (at no point does this film refer to her as Wonder Woman.  The last act has some good scenes and shots, but feels disconnected from the rest of the film. And it's ending is essentially a setup for The Justice League.

 

Superman dies! get's a funeral with full military honest (empty box). Clark Kent is buried back in Kansas. But ofcourse there's that final shot..... (fade to black)

 

The film is exactly what I thought it would be. Immaculately shot, very well acted, at time really rousing and effective. But predictably the last act is action, more action, some more action and then even more. Also not all of the setup for the next film works. The Diana Prince stuff is fine. Gal Gadot brings a mysterious allure to the role. But there's a dream scene within a dreamscene from Batman in the middle of the film. (the one where he's taken captive and Superman unmasks him, and then some kind of character coming through what looks like a temporal vortex warning Bruce about the coming danger). And just before the Batman/Supes confrontation there's a scene with Wonderwoman viewing video files of The Flash, Aquaman and some other superhero which again doesnt quite fit there.

 

Barring all this, the script is actually an improvement over the one from MOS, simply because it's more tailored to Snyder's sensibilities as a director. Gone are the endless scenes of exposition for exposition sake. Not everything is bluntly expressed in dialogue and there's a real sense of build up to the inevitable confrontation between DC's greatest.

Even without the monster stuff and the Justice League foreshadowing the story could have been more simply told I think. Though for a script with so many angles I actually had no trouble at all keeping track of everything.

 

The world collapses when Affleck was announced as the new Batman, but he completely own the role. Finally having the gravitas in his 40's that he lacked for the films that made him something of a laughing stock.

The notion that Cavill has no charisma is dispelled here. He's effortlssly this generations Superman. and as Clark Kent is finally able to show a few other shades then just angst.

Eisenberg is a strong Luthor, clearly deranged. and Jeremy Irons is great in the little screentime he has. Another small but key part goes to Holly Hunter, who makes her Senator into something of a feisty gal.

 

Zimmer and Holkenborg team up for what is probably the loudest and most teutonic Superhero score ever. Connected yet dissimilar from both Zimmer's earlier Superman score and his Batman ones. At times having an operatic feel. It's loud, but not without inventive parts, and some measure of delicacy and even grace at times. I'll definitely gives this beast a spin on it's own.

 

Again this feels far more like a Zach Snyder film then Man Of Steef did, which means it will probably be even more divisive. It's also a better film then that one, though far from flawless of free from excesses. Tighten up the story, get rid of the foreshadowing and shorten the final act and it would have been a really good film. As it is it's still a very effective spectacle for those who enjoy them when they are made well.

 

 

 

 

47 minutes ago, Jay said:

I'm not talking about filmmakers that choose to include them, I'm talking about European movie theaters adding their own into films that don't have them.

 

Jason....

 

As far as I know it's only one movie chain in The Netherlands. And that just happens to be the one that has a cinema where I live. Please do not assume that it's happens everywhere all over Europe. It doesnt.

[Jay 37,373]

Batman's parents were always Thomas and Martha Wayne, yes.

 

 

12 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

at no point does this film refer to her as Wonder Woman

 

Lame.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Actually I think her other name is only mentioned once in the film. Her WW symbol is visible a few times though.

 

Remember in MOS the name Superman was also just used in one line of dialogue.

 

 

Oh, btw, there's no reason to see this in 3D.

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

85 pages of this shit. Oh dear.

 

What next? Inuit vs. King Kongs? Booooooring

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Cool!

[KK 3,307]

3 hours ago, Mr. Big said:

Superman?  

 

Sheesh. Forgot how nauseating that whole sequence was. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Its so fast!

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Terrifically shot, staged and scored.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Nice to read your thoughts on this Steef.  I think I'll enjoy it exactly as I expect to, which seems to have happened for you as well.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Its a noisy and unwieldy juggernaut thats a sequel, a reboot and a set up movie. With all the problems one can expect from such a thing. But it is entertaining 

[Romão 2,274]

47 minutes ago, KK. said:

 

Sheesh. Forgot how nauseating that whole sequence was. 

 

Why do the civilians just stand still when Zod is trying to kill them with his laser vision or whatnot?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yeah that doesn't really make sense.

[Matt C 455]

2 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Batman v Superman: Dawn Of Justice

 

 

SPOILERS! DO NOT READ BEYOND THIS POINT IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENS

 

[...]

 

The film is exactly what I thought it would be. Immaculately shot, very well acted, at time really rousing and effective. But predictably the last act is action, more action, some more action and then even more. Also not all of the setup for the next film works. The Diana Prince stuff is fine. Gal Gadot brings a mysterious allure to the role. But there's a dream scene within a dreamscene from Batman in the middle of the film. (the one where he's taken captive and Superman unmasks him, and then some kind of character coming through what looks like a temporal vortex warning Bruce about the coming danger). And just before the Batman/Supes confrontation there's a scene with Wonderwoman viewing video files of The Flash, Aquaman and some other superhero which again doesnt quite fit there.

 

That's the Flash.

 

Having seen the film an hour ago, I agree completely with you. The film is a bit too ambitious for its own good, especially in the last half (which is 15 minutes too long), but the first half of the movie is surprisingly very good. Gadot is fantastic in what little screentime she has, and I can't wait for her solo film next year.

 

Looking at some of the critical reviews BvS got, I have a feeling a lot of critics have it out for Zack Snyder. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

To me it feels more like a directors film then anything in the MCU.

[crocodile 8,019]

If only he could afford a decent editor. The pacing is atrocious and I'm not even talking about the running time.

 

My verdict? I didn't hate it more than Man of Steel.

 

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

What bothered you about the pacing?

[crocodile 8,019]

That he was jumping all the time. And before he could build or sustain any tension he would cut into another. And sometimes these are very abrupt transitions, way before the material is given a chance to play out naturally. The film doesn't seem to have any rhythm at all, it feels like a 2.5 hour montage sequence.

 

But what I liked it is that it is more interesting visually, at least for the most part, than Man of Steel. Feels like there is a filmmaker's stamp all over it, even if it might sometimes hurt the film. And I sort of liked Batfleck.

 

Karol

[mrbellamy 6,291]

 

 

[crocodile 8,019]

Spoiler

 

And I was surprised at the end when they decided to retell Death of Superman storyline in a very compressed form. Ever since Tim Burton's project in the mid-90's they were trying to realize Doomsday on big screen. He even looks like some designs from that unmade film.

 

Karol

[Jay 37,373]

51 minutes ago, crocodile said:

That he was jumping all the time. And before he could build or sustain any tension he would cut into another. And sometimes these are very abrupt transitions, way before the material is given a chance to play out naturally. The film doesn't seem to have any rhythm at all, it feels like a 2.5 hour montage sequence.

 

 

Well, perhaps the upcoming Blu Ray cut will be better in that regard