ragoz350 450 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 17 minutes ago, Holko said: Riding the Hippogriff supposedly was; the percussion bit is just an insert that was supposed to completely overwrite it like in the movie but on the OST JW shifted it forward instead it so the second half of the original opening is still there, and Mike either replicated it on the LLL or the OST was the only or only good source available. Anyone correct me if I'm wrong. It's funny that there are at least two versions of the opening with percussion (OST and the one from "Mischief Managed"). I wonder why so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,348 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Question about the new A New Broomstick mock-up, which sounds awesome: This mock-up segues from the firebolt music into Double Trouble and omits the Hedwig's Theme version on horns, which makes it sound very natural. So did MM put that horn statement in the alternate just because it was an alternate recording of those horns, or because it really was recorded that way? I still think it sounds weird. The revised film version makes the transition sound very natural because that firebolt music ends on a cliffhanger, but this alternate version seems to be intended to go straight into Double Trouble, as this mock-up does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragoz350 450 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: Question about the new A New Broomstick mock-up, which sounds awesome: This mock-up segues from the firebolt music into Double Trouble and omits the Hedwig's Theme version on horns, which makes it sound very natural. So did MM put that horn statement in the alternate just because it was an alternate recording of those horns, or because it really was recorded that way? I still think it sounds weird. The revised film version makes the transition sound very natural because that firebolt music ends on a cliffhanger, but this alternate version seems to be intended to go straight into Double Trouble, as this mock-up does. I think that in LLL-release the second version of this cue (the first might not have been recorded). The first version was written according to the old script - Harry initially had to portray as if the broom was not working. And apparently, it was previously assumed that the credits begin immediately after the scene. Then, at the time of recording, the scene was reduced and the first half of the cue was rewritten, and the credits became "different", but Williams didn't rewrite the second half of cue and kept the last chord... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,348 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Could I make two mock-up requests? Could you possibly do Aunt Marge Points the Finger as written (we only have a version with sound effects) and, if it was written, the percussion intro to Sir Cadogan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragoz350 450 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Percussion intro to Cadogan can perhaps be extracted from 5.1/7.1 audio of the film... As for "Points the Finger" - I'll try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 bollemanneke and ragoz350 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragoz350 450 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 2 hours ago, bollemanneke said: Could you possibly do Aunt Marge Points the Finger as written I added "Points the Finger" mockup to playlist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,348 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 THANK YOU! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeltington 1,440 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 3 hours ago, ragoz350 said: Percussion intro to Cadogan can perhaps be extracted from 5.1/7.1 audio of the film... As for "Points the Finger" - I'll try. Did Williams compose this, or was it created by the sound editors? Thanks for sharing these mockups, ragoz350! I'm enjoying them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,348 Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 Another tiny mock-up request. Could someone do the very beginning of Double Trouble March on the harpsichord and segue into the LLL cue? Because the LLL cue doesn't have a clean opening. TSMefford 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Alex 2,835 Posted June 23, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 23, 2020 Haven’t listened to any HP music all year and I’ve just listened to all of this set once again. It’s such an incredible body of work, it really is. crumbs, TSMefford, bigjimwilson and 6 others 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,242 Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 On 6/17/2020 at 9:49 AM, bollemanneke said: Could you possibly do Aunt Marge Points the Finger as written (we only have a version with sound effects) Wasn’t that on a DVD or Blu-Ray menu at some point? I can’t remember if it was clean or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 On 6/17/2020 at 11:41 PM, Smeltington said: Did Williams compose this, or was it created by the sound editors? Thanks for sharing these mockups, ragoz350! I'm enjoying them. The Cadogan percussion was a later addition by the sound editors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 I still can't get "3M13 - Sir Cardogan "for Dufay Ensemble & Percussion"" out of my mind though, because the released version has no percussion and 3M13 is the non-tracked version composed for where it would be, after Great Hall Ceiling. Once and bollemanneke 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,348 Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 3 hours ago, BrotherSound said: Wasn’t that on a DVD or Blu-Ray menu at some point? I can’t remember if it was clean or not. Tes, it was on the DVD menu, but had narration all over it. BrotherSound 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skelly 261 Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 You can get a pretty clean copy if you play with it enough https://clyp.it/ii3urvna?token=a618b4472874f54494e3fe135eba2294 BrotherSound 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,348 Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 That sounds good too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 7 hours ago, Holko said: I still can't get "3M13 - Sir Cardogan "for Dufay Ensemble & Percussion"" out of my mind though, because the released version has no percussion and 3M13 is the non-tracked version composed for where it would be, after Great Hall Ceiling. Perhaps a podium change to remove the percussion element and tambourine from the piece? Or this is like the shawm cue that JW didn't just simply want to include on the set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 Before it was even recorded but after it was written... then restored anyway for one version by sound editors? bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 13 minutes ago, Holko said: Before it was even recorded but after it was written... then restored anyway for one version by sound editors? Who knows and frankly missing that bit isn't once again such a big thing but then again people still clamor for the shawm stuff. And true the original version has the percussion + tambourine written in and continues underneath the whole short cue but the film version for the Headless Hunt scene opens with different percussion and then continues with the Sir Cadogan version without the percussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Skelly 261 Posted June 23, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 23, 2020 The shawm and tambourine tracks are interesting because they're examples of how Cuaron blurs the line between underscore and diegetic music (or even sound effects) in a way that hasn't been popular or standard pretty much since the 1930s. Like Hitchcock famously asked, "Where is the music coming from?" The shawm is ostensibly coming from somewhere in the pub, but then it slides into orchestral underscore and for a moment the two are laid on top each other. The Dufay track seems to be normal underscore at first as Buckbeak nuzzles Harry, but suddenly one cut later it's paranormal music that constantly follows the headless horsemen. Or the lute track, where it isn't until the shot's conclusion that we see the "underscore" is actually coming from someone randomly playing his own instrument. Or the Boggart scene where the difference between underscore and source music is the difference between fear and fun, but when the two intertwine during Harry's turn -- where's the music coming from then? There are other examples but those are the most obvious. I think the opposite of that might be part of why the Diagon Alley music in the first movie was dropped and replaced with the Great Hall cue. Harry steps out of the Leaky Cauldron (which had obvious source music) and into Diagon Alley, and even though Williams puts an orchestral delineation up as the brick wall disassembles, he goes back into wizardly music that tells us more what Harry is probably hearing as opposed to what he's feeling. I think the filmmakers wanted to keep the score firmly from Harry's perspective, and the only cue I can think of that deviates from that is "Filch's Fond Remembrance" (which was cut down a lot in the actual movie). Once, Docteur Qui, Smeltington and 3 others 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,348 Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Incanus said: Who knows and frankly missing that bit isn't once again such a big thing but then again people still clamor for the shawm stuff. And true the original version has the percussion + tambourine written in and continues underneath the whole short cue but the film version for the Headless Hunt scene opens with different percussion and then continues with the Sir Cadogan version without the percussion. That's not entirely correct. Once the Sir Cadogan cue starts after the Hippogriff lesson, the movie retains the percussion and uses a different take of that cue. When it plays in the finale of the movie, there is no percussion. (I want that isolated score!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,316 Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 43 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: That's not entirely correct. Once the Sir Cadogan cue starts after the Hippogriff lesson, the movie retains the percussion and uses a different take of that cue. When it plays in the finale of the movie, there is no percussion. (I want that isolated score!) I believe that second version at the end is just slowed down artificially, something the SFX guys did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 Actually it's the first version,with the percussion, that's slower. But yeah I think the speed thing is just a change in post too, and the different section is just taken from the reprise in the full take (both film versions only play the section before the bridge but the slower+percussion one uses the opening of the post-bridge reprise's opening then proceeds with the pre-bridge statement) TSMefford 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,316 Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 How were those cues handled in the LTP? Did they perform these cues live and, if so, did they have live percussion? Would be a strange addition, considering the SFX guys were responsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 Well the LLL prioritised a random trailer house's meh bit over some JW written and conducted bits that are actually noticeably in the movie so anything can happen. bollemanneke and Taikomochi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted June 23, 2020 Author Share Posted June 23, 2020 15 minutes ago, crumbs said: How were those cues handled in the LTP? Did they perform these cues live and, if so, did they have live percussion? The live to project concerts exactly match what you hear in the film, except IIRC the end credits end after aunt marge's waltz and don't have the final hedwig and harpichord stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 That's not what he asked though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted June 23, 2020 Author Share Posted June 23, 2020 What do you mean? He asked if they featured the percussion, and I answered that the performances exactly match what you hear in the film The only music in the film not performed live by the orchestra is whatever is coming out of the TV at the beginning, and the records Lupin plays TSMefford 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,348 Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 44 minutes ago, crumbs said: I believe that second version at the end is just slowed down artificially, something the SFX guys did. I don't think it's a good idea to say the SFX guys did everything the set is lacking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Richard Penna 3,689 Posted June 23, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 23, 2020 That's harsh; however I don't like the reasoning of 'oh, the sound guys did that' as a reason why we don't need to hear something. bollemanneke, Molly Weasley and TSMefford 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,348 Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 Yeah, I didn't mean to be harsh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bollemanneke 3,348 Posted August 5, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 5, 2020 This is probably going to be a strange observation, but I realised something yesterday evening. When I was going through bits and pieces of HP1 right before going to bed, it suddenly struck me yet again that these scores are masterpieces and more importantly, that I unwittingly spent more time focusing on the presentation of these scores than on their actual contents. I need to try and appreciate the magic instilled in these cues much more. crlbrg, TSMefford, Falstaft and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMefford 1,509 Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 3 hours ago, bollemanneke said: This is probably going to be a strange observation, but I realised something yesterday evening. When I was going through bits and pieces of HP1 right before going to bed, it suddenly struck me yet again that these scores are masterpieces and more importantly, that I unwittingly spent more time focusing on the presentation of these scores than on their actual contents. I need to try and appreciate the magic instilled in these cues much more. Great observation. I agree. I tend to get too caught up in the editing and "film versions" myself sometimes. They're absolutely marvelous scores and I of course greatly appreciate the marvelous work done by La-La Land to get us nearly complete versions of these scores in an official capacity. Regardless of any perceived shortcomings, I will never forget the awesome feeling eagerly hitting the refresh button on their Facebook page and it finally revealing Potter and going crazy on the forums with everyone. It was really a dream come true, just to have a chance to hear the music cleanly as well as discover all the hidden new gems, but to also show my support for releases like this. I certainly hope they continue the rest of the series if possible. Chewy and Docteur Qui 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,348 Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 I couldn't agree more. October-December 2018 were some of the happiest times in my life. Chewy and TSMefford 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,364 Posted August 5, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted August 5, 2020 Since I helped Mike a bit on this set, I think I can safely say the primary goal was presenting the maestro's scores in the best possible way: To craft albums you can put on and press play and experience everything the score has to offer. It was a secondary goal to include every last scrap of music recorded and finding a home for it, or adhering to strict chronology for every single cue. A lot of discussion happens on forums like this specifically about some tiny missing moment or how to re-jigger or re-edit what was released to a different order or presentation, but overall in the grand scheme of the whole world, most people are just playing the albums as they are, and the composer, studio, and label are all happy with how it came out. And yea, John Williams sure knocked the ball out of the park three times in a row here. I never get tired of re-entering this world. bollemanneke, crlbrg, Molly Weasley and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMefford 1,509 Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, Jay said: Since I helped Mike a bit on this set, I think I can safely say the primary goal was presenting the maestro's scores in the best possible way: To craft albums you can put on and press play and experience everything the score has to offer. It was a secondary goal to include every last scrap of music recorded and finding a home for it, or adhering to strict chronology for every single cue. A lot of discussion happens on forums like this specifically about some tiny missing moment or how to re-jigger or re-edit what was released to a different order or presentation, but overall in the grand scheme of the whole world, most people are just playing the albums as they are, and the composer, studio, and label are all happy with how it came out. And yea, John Williams sure knocked the ball out of the park three times in a row here. I never get tired of re-entering this world. Indeed. I have the edits for myself when I want them, but most of the time I listen to Potter now, it's just putting on this set, as is. We can complain all we'd like about what didn't make it, but you guys did a fantastic job with the set, truly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,348 Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 Having said that, Jay, are we any closer to a JWfan interview with Mike (or to your own HP3 spreadsheet)? I would really love to hear more about who chose the track combinations in HP3 and why, what JW requested, why crossfades like Ransacked Dormitory and Petrified Hermione happened, or what Mike would have done had he had 3 discs for HP2 and 3 (track splits etc.). In short, three more Tim Burden podcasts on this set or a good long book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,364 Posted August 5, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted August 5, 2020 I think Mike prefers doing audio discussions with Maurizio or other podcasters now, over written interviews. Maybe some day that will change I should finish my HP3 spreadsheet, I made good progress a while back then never finished. The only request JW had was to put the version of Harry's Wondrous World with concert ending (recorded during HP2) in the Children's Suite instead of the HP1 recording. He also requested the concert ending of Diagon Alley, but we verified it was never recorded at the HP1 (or HP2) sessions. The programming decisions were 100% Mike. He made the albums he thought best represented the music, I listened to them and gave comments, and he sent them to JW to approve them. We never discussed 3CD versions of HP2 or HP3 because it wasn't an option Molly Weasley, Holko, TSMefford and 7 others 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,287 Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 These expansions are such a labor of love and fan wish fulfillment that I sometimes forget they are official releases completely authorized by JW haha. They still feel like bootlegs, considering they are pretty under the radar with such a limited group of people buying and discussing them en masse. But it's just awesome that he's finally being wooed into these things. Cerebral Cortex and bollemanneke 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,348 Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Jay said: I think Mike prefers doing audio discussions with Maurizio or other podcasters now, over written interviews. Maybe some day that will change I should finish my HP3 spreadsheet, I made good progress a while back then never finished. The only request JW had was to put the version of Harry's Wondrous World with concert ending (recorded during HP2) in the Children's Suite instead of the HP1 recording. He also requested the concert ending of Diagon Alley, but we verified it was never recorded at the HP1 (or HP2) sessions. The programming decisions were 100% Mike. He made the albums he wanted and then JW approved them. We never discussed 3CD versions of HP2 or HP3 because it wasn't an option Great news about the HP3 spreadsheet. Yes, someone (the LSO or the LSO) really needs to record Diagon Alley as published. Very interesting to read about JW's requests. Why were HP2 and 3 on 3 CDs never an option? Not enough material to justify that treatment or LLL budget reasons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted August 5, 2020 Author Share Posted August 5, 2020 I think there wasn't enough music to really warrant the additional cost and additional price they'd have to charge if they went that route If they ever revisit these as separate releases, I'd love to redo 2 and 3 as 3 disc sets this time (and expand what's on disc 3 of HP1) Once and bollemanneke 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Jay said: I think Mike prefers doing audio discussions with Maurizio or other podcasters now, over written interviews. Maybe some day that will change Aw shucks, those text interviews were great and always went deeper into more specific info than most of these podcasts do (especially when rolling multiple releases into one episode), even if they're still always very good. Just now, Jay said: and expand what's on disc 3 of HP1) Ooh! What else is there beside the complete Leaky Cauldron take, film version take of Hagrid's Flute and the complete original consistent tempo Mail Drop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted August 5, 2020 Author Share Posted August 5, 2020 Nothing you don't already have access to; The album track "Christmas at Hogwarts" with its unique take of the ghosts singing, the session leak version of Diagon Alley without the Insert inserted, stuff like that. There's no hidden gems in the archives that nobody knows about or anything bollemanneke and Holko 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 whew Chewy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,348 Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 Except Aunt Marge Points the Finger (Alternate)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 That's not HP1 though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,348 Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 Oh, right, I thought we weren't specifically discussing HP1. I still have mixed feelings about HP3's bonus section because some of it doesn't really NEED to be there, which makes the two missing cues a bit more jarring. Holko and Chewy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,242 Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 On 6/22/2020 at 11:00 PM, Incanus said: The Cadogan percussion was a later addition by the sound editors. So, I’ve seen this referenced a few times, but what’s the source? A score hasn’t leaked, but there’s a recorder part for 3M5-5A “Bonding with Hippogriff and Sir Cadogan Again” from the sessions that shows rests the same length as what used in the film at this point including the percussion intro (24 bars of 2/4) and unlike 3M13 “Sir Cadaogan”, there’s a fermata on the last note which could explain the slight slowdown at the end. While this has a similar appearance to the LTP parts, this appears to be from the original sessions. Note the 2/29/04 date at the bottom left. Isn’t the simplest explanation that this is just “Sir Cadogan Again” as written, which just happens to be only slightly different from “Sir Cadogan”? Note that the live-to-projection version also uses “Bonding with Hippogriff and Sir Cadogan Again” title, rather than “Sir Cadogan”. Incidentally, this part wasn’t actually used. crlbrg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,348 Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 Wait, what do you mean by sessions? There are no HP3 sessions... are there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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