Popular Post Holko 9,526 Posted September 18, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 18, 2020 I was never happy with my edited suite of alternates at the end of the program so I thought why not be more creative with them? This is my current version: - Fixed the terrible tempo hitch in Main Title - edited part of Dome Opens Alternate into Dome Opens - Joined Kryptonquake into Destruction as the scoregasm moment it was intended to be - joined Crash Site into Trip to Earth for no real good reason - included Fortress of Solitude alternate as "Clark's Journey" before the final cue - which gets even more satisfying from this when it uses the alternate's motif, and it buffs the Smallville section up - included Mugger alternate before Cat Rescue - joined Super Rescues/Chasing Rockets with Golden Gate/Rescuing Jimmy, the very long space between these two high octane action pieces that are the part of the same finale setpiece always bothered me a bit - March of the Villains moved after Love Theme - "Finale" is Prelude and Main Title alternate, which I love What a great fucking score and release! rough cut, Jay, crumbs and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 The only alternate that really was of value was the FORTRESS OF SOLITUDE. I was tempted to get the LLL just for that cue! Someday. Maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 Too bad it always flies out of stock! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,317 Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 I'm sure this question has been asked a thousand times but what music does disc 3 of the LLL contain that isn't already on discs 1 and 2? Is it just another case of an alternate mix but repeated music? And yes, I'm aware of the dialogue in Can You Read My Mind But I'm otherwise unfamiliar with this score and still haven't had a chance to listen to the LLL (except disc 3). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 I think absolutely nothing, just in a different configuration. But it's the first time the proper double LP program was released on CD in the US. And it's a damn good presentation for once! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 Isn't The Fortress of Solitude shortened on the OST, or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 And Super Rescues and Superfeats and Chasing Rockets are joined tracks. So no, no music that isn't already on Disc 1 and 2, just in a different configuration. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rough cut 1,714 Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 I love me an OST presentation on an expansion. QuartalHarmony 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,368 Posted September 18, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 18, 2020 The 3rd disc contains a brand new rebuild of the 1978 OST album because it's an iconic album and everyone felt it should be included in the definitive release of this score. When JW constructed the album in 1978, it was all made from the same takes and mixes as the cues that went into the film (this is one of those scores where Tomlinson cut the performance edits directly on the 1st generation tape, so all releases have always have the correct takes everywhere). When the original LP program was released on CD in the US years later, 2 tracks were cut to fit the CD limitations at the time; the full 1978 LP program had only been released on CD in Japan before the LLL debuted it in the US 41 years after its USA LP debut. The entirety of the LLL set is an entirely new mix. All previous albums used 2nd, 3rd, or 4th generation sources that all contained Tomlinson's film mix. For this release the first gen tapes were finally found, but they were multitrack - Tomlinson's film mix was not re-dubbed onto spare tracks on the 1st gen tape. So Mike created his own brand new mix from the first generation multitrack for every single cue in the score. So this edition of the 1978 OST album is Mike's new mix, not Tomlinson's old mix. After the mix, as far as mastering goes, the original LP was mastered in one way back in 78, the 2000 Rhino was mastered differently, and the 2008 was mastered differently again - except for any tracks they had to take off the album master. The LLL album was entirely mastered by Mike including the OST rebuild. One final note is that there is some piano heard in the Planet Krypton OST track that isn't otherwise in the Rhino, FSM, or LLL main program, so including the OST program in this set was a great way to include that little bit that Williams apparently liked enough to put on the LP (the only thing that differed from the film mix on the entire LP, other than the different placement of Margo Kidder's vocals) Arpy, Jurassic Shark, Holko and 7 others 8 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellaeon 593 Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 17 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: Too bad it always flies out of stock! Aaargh! Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 Yeah, another reason I would like the LLL is for the OST presentation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Amer 2,110 Posted September 20, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 20, 2020 On 9/19/2020 at 12:21 AM, Jay said: The 3rd disc contains a brand new rebuild of the 1978 OST album because it's an iconic album and everyone felt it should be included in the definitive release of this score. When JW constructed the album in 1978, it was all made from the same takes and mixes as the cues that went into the film (this is one of those scores where Tomlinson cut the performance edits directly on the 1st generation tape, so all releases have always have the correct takes everywhere). When the original LP was released on CD in the US 2 tracks were cut to fit the CD limitations at the time; the full 1978 LP program had only been released on CD in Japan before the LLL debuted it in the US. The entirety of the LLL set is an entirely new mix. All previous albums used 2nd, 3rd, or 4th generation sources that all contained Tomlinson's film mix. For this release the first gen tapes were finally found, but they were multitrack - Tomlinson's film mix was not re-dubbed onto spare tracks on the 1st gen tape. So Mike created his own brand new mix from the first generation multitrack for every single cue in the score. So this edition of the 1978 OST album is Mike's new mix, not Tomlinson's old mix, if that matters to anyone. The old LP would have also been mastered for home listening too, it wasn't a raw untouched release of Tomlinson's film mixes. The Rhino and FSM would have each had their own different final mastering of the film mixes as well (except for the tracks on those albums taken directly from the album master, like the Love Theme). The LLL album was entirely mastered by Mike including the OST rebuild. One final note is that there is some piano heard in the Planet Krypton OST track that isn't otherwise in the Rhino, FSM, or LLL main program, so including the OST program in this set was a great way to include that little bit that Williams apparently liked enough to put on the LP (the only thing that differed from the film mix on the entire LP) A few years before the set was even considered I implored Matessino to do it as a stand-alone 3CD set for this and specifically requested that the OST album be made part of this. I even made my own version of the track list for the set. This was around the time when the FSM set became OOP. I was told it would eventually happen in the future but there was a lot of paper work and approvals required. Fast forward to the future, and as plans to issue the standalone set were set in motion and it was going to be a high resolution transfer from the same sources that was used for the FSM set.But then a Miracle happened and the original recording session were discovered. The rest is history.... ricsim88, crumbs, Dr. Rick and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuartalHarmony 543 Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 I've just driven home from work with the third CD playing, and just been amazed all over again at what a great score, performance and OST album this was (is). Williams is at (or certainly very near) his absolute peak, he's worked with the LSO the year before and you can tell he's pushing them harder and they're enjoying keeping up. The brass section are absolutely on fire and the strings are great too, though possibly a little too much vibrato on the violins at times. The OST album is brilliantly sequenced - I like albums that generally follow the film order - with the concert suites being placed nicely as palate-cleansers. The sound quality on this latest (hopefully definitive) release is noticeably excellent too, even in the car. Mark mahler3 and GlastoEls 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeltington 1,440 Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 On 9/18/2020 at 3:21 PM, Jay said: One final note is that there is some piano heard in the Planet Krypton OST track that isn't otherwise in the Rhino, FSM, or LLL main program, so including the OST program in this set was a great way to include that little bit that Williams apparently liked enough to put on the LP (the only thing that differed from the film mix on the entire LP) I didn't realize that... I double checked your spreadsheet and didn't see timestamps for the part with the extra piano. Are you able to share those? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,368 Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 I don't remember where it is The best way to find a difference between 2 versions of a cue when it isn't obvious from looking at each in an audio editor, BTW, is to put headphones on and play one version in the left ear only and the other version in the right ear only. bollemanneke and Bespin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuartalHarmony 543 Posted September 27, 2020 Share Posted September 27, 2020 The OST track (LLL CD3, T2) has rather atonal piano flourishes underlying the high synth parts from 2:09-3:09. I've just listened to it, closely followed by CD1, T2 and the latter part of the same segment, also starting at 2:09, has less piano later on. I think I prefer the OST in this instance. Talking (obliquely) of Krypton, I'd also like to shout out the masterful way Williams puts the Krypton theme into the minor at the beginning of The Fortress of Solitude. It's actually just a change of one note (out of eight) by a mere semitone, but it completely changes the feel of the motif: D-G-C-G-C-D-Eb-C. Later in the cue, when the Fortress is built, this makes the usual major key version of the theme sound even more triumphant: D-G-C-G-C-D-E-C. All from just changing a single note. What a craftsman. Mark Smeltington and Jay 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuartalHarmony 543 Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Oh, and another thing I wanted to ask: is there a list of musicians who played on Superman (and Williams’s other LSO recordings)? I seem to recall seeing one for Empire back in the very early days when the phrase ‘information superhighway’ didn’t sound ridiculous. Anyone got one? I like reading the lists in recent releases, especially spotting the same names on different scores, not to mention Williams’s brother(?s). Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,242 Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 2 hours ago, QuartalHarmony said: Oh, and another thing I wanted to ask: is there a list of musicians who played on Superman (and Williams’s other LSO recordings)? @TownerFan’s got you covered! https://thelegacyofjohnwilliams.com/2019/03/21/london-symphony-orchestra-superman/ mahler3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 Shark wants that list so he can scold musicians who " flubbed". 😎 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 What? I'm not QuartalHarmony. Why isn't Bruce banned now again? On 9/20/2020 at 4:42 AM, Amer said: Fast forward to the future, and as plans to issue the standalone set were set in motion and it was going to be a high resolution transfer from the same sources that was used for the FSM set.But then a Miracle happened and the original recording session were discovered. The rest is history.... A miracle? Are you saying Mike is Jesus reincarnated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amer 2,110 Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said: What? I'm not QuartalHarmony. Why isn't Bruce banned now again? A miracle? Are you saying Mike is Jesus reincarnated? I thought you said remastered but then...:) Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuartalHarmony 543 Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 Thank you, gentlemen/women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 On 10/1/2020 at 11:14 PM, Jurassic Shark said: A miracle? Are you saying Mike is Jesus reincarnated? No. Laurent Bouzreau holds that title. On 10/1/2020 at 11:14 PM, Jurassic Shark said: Why isn't Bruce banned now aga Because, there is a rule; A person can only be banned from ONE film score site per decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 Of course we get that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 12 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: Of course we get that. I keep forgetting. Worldly Euros know more about American politics than most Americans do.😒 QuartalHarmony 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,368 Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 Bruce, please don't bring politics into threads about film scores. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 19 minutes ago, Jay said: Bruce, leave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 Bruce Lee's long lost brother. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 6 hours ago, Jay said: Bruce, please don't bring politics into threads about film scores. Thank you Edited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Wan 65 Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 I have tried to match "Prelude and Main Title (Film Version)" (track 17 on Disc 2) with the actual Main Title scene from the film and it doesn't fit! It seems the music track from LLL 3CD set is much longer and slower than the actual music in the film. Can anybody help me how to synchronize it? Thanks a lot in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,368 Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 You didn't read the liner notes. Donner artificially sped up the end credits recording when he tracked it into the opening of the film. For a bonus track, the LLL CD re-creates the same edits as used in the film, but doesn't alter the speed of the music. bruce marshall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 Just purchased- $25 CHEAP!😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Wan 65 Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 On 27/11/2020 at 5:33 PM, Jay said: You didn't real the liner notes. Donner artificially sped up the end credits recording when he tracked it into the opening of the film. The LLL CD re-creates the same edits as used in the film, but doesn't alter the speed. Yes, I did. But I still don't know how to alter "Prelude and Main Title (Film Version)" (track 17 on Disc 2) to fit it to the film scene. Unfortunatelly I don't know how to do the upward pitch shift and subsequent small edits exactly the same as it is done in the film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,368 Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 You increase the speed of the part of the track that's the end credits. I couldn't tell you what percent to increase it by, though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Wan 65 Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 1 minute ago, Jay said: You increase the speed of the part of the track that's the end credits. I couldn't tell you what percent to increase it by, though Yes this is exactly what I need to know and where are the edit points because the End Title part is not only sped up but also edited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amer 2,110 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Trial by Error until you find what you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 There is a YT vid where someone synced it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyncMan 314 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 @E-Wan,if this matters, the DVD and Blu Ray releases of 'Superman' have an ‘isolated music score’ audio track where the music is edited and sync’d with the film. Otherwise, what project are you working on that you have to do the sync’ing/edits yourself? Tallguy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallguy 3,395 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Is the speed change why the music goes sharp (or was it flat?) in the film? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Never.noticed. don't. Care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 I worked at the SF theater where this first played. State of the art sound system - personally designed by Dolby Labs. That's the benchmark for me. If this sounds as good I will be one happy score fan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuartalHarmony 543 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Speeding the tape up certainly would send the music sharp. It could be done more sophisticatedly today but not Back In The Day. For those with perfect pitch, this sort of thing really grates. Most of the rest of the world neither notices nor cares, as Bruce has shown. Mark bruce marshall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 " Its not that I don't care, it's just that I don't care Otis". 😆 Weren't the BEATLES able to speed up tracks without raising the pitch on some recordings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,044 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 37 minutes ago, bruce marshall said: I worked at the SF theater where this first played. State of the art sound system - personally designed by Dolby Labs. That's the benchmark for me. If this sounds as good I will be one happy score fan! I'm with @QuartalHarmony on this - for the majority of people, it wouldn't be noticeable, even with the best sound system in the world. The rest would catch it even on a crappy mono smartphone speaker. Doesn't even have to be someone with perfect pitch - just a decent ear for intonation, since the edit suddenly shifts from actual pitch to something conspicuously sharp. For anyone who either hasn't seen the film or doesn't remember, that moment is at 1:41 below, right as the title flies into frame. I'm pretty sure my first viewing of the film when I was young was on a crappy VHS copy, and I remember it immediately jumped out at me. (At the time, I just assumed it was just because it was old.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Do you mean it shifts into a different key or the music speeds up ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyncMan 314 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 25 minutes ago, bruce marshall said: Do you mean it shifts into a different key or the music speeds up ? When one is working on analogue tape machines, it’s both. When you are increasing the speed of the analogue tape machine, the result would be a higher pitch (or 'key'). When you are decreasing the speed of the analogue tape machine, the result would be lower in pitch. Anyone who owns even a TASCAM home audio cassette machine with a (-/+) pitch knob can tell you that. bruce marshall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,044 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 29 minutes ago, bruce marshall said: Do you mean it shifts into a different key or the music speeds up ? Like @SyncMan said, in the tape days a change of speed meant a change of pitch. Nowadays computers are reasonably good at changing pitch and speed independently, but in Superman's day, speeding up the tape meant going sharp. I don't notice the speed change - I notice the sudden jump to all the pitches being very sharp, though not sharp enough to take us all the way into the next key up (C#). Instead, the first note of the melody is roughly halfway between a C and a C#, and Western music doesn't traditionally have any notes between those two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 Only Disc 3 in this set matters anyway. bruce marshall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 Can't you change the pitch without speeding up the tape? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,044 Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 1 hour ago, bruce marshall said: Can't you change the pitch without speeding up the tape? I feel like I'm missing a joke - insert "humor...it is a difficult concept" here. But if I'm not...yes, nowadays you definitely can. But some algorithms are better at it than others, and even the best ones do disrupt the sound quality a bit. It's less mathematically straightforward than simply changing the speed and letting the pitch come along for the ride. I don't believe there's an analog way to do this, though I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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