SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE - 3CD Set from La-La Land Records

[mstrox 6,651]

It sounds great - no possible way they could improve on it*
 

*yes, we also said this about the Blue Box and the Rhino release

[Bespin 8,483]

2 minutes ago, mstrox said:

It sounds great - no possible way they could improve on it*
 

*yes, we also said this about the Blue Box and the Rhino release

 

The concept of something being 'definitive' in the realm of musical recording is non-existent.

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

3 hours ago, mstrox said:

It sounds great - no possible way they could improve on it*
 

*yes, we also said this about the Blue Box and the Rhino release

 

The blue box I understand, but anyone who called the Rhino definitive needs to get their ears checked.

[Tallguy 3,399]

10 minutes ago, A. A. Ron said:

 

The blue box I understand, but anyone who called the Rhino definitive needs to get their ears checked.

 

I don't see what people go on about for how bad the RCA Star Wars discs supposedly are and even I knew that the Rhino set could be better.

[Jay 37,369]

Well it's just ROTJ.  Star Wars sounds fine.  Empire's QUALITY is ok, the major issue is that several cues were remixed at the last minute so the balance of instruments is off.  It's ROTJ where some cues just don't sound as good as they did on the 1993 set.

[mstrox 6,651]

We were all over the moon about the Rhino set back in the day.  The problem is, you never know how much better archival audio can get until somebody gives it to you!

 

The sound of the Superman OST on CD was dreadful, and Rhino was huge.

[Tallguy 3,399]

52 minutes ago, mstrox said:

The sound of the Superman OST on CD was dreadful, and Rhino was huge.

 

And it was a very pretty set. Back when expanded scores, even for blockbusters like Superman, were exciting and surprising and not just "assumed".

[Andy 4,138]

Yep, for a while after the DCC Raiders and then the Rhino Superman, it looked as though they were going for a nice consistency with the slipcase and awesome liner notes booklets.  The Rhino Superman was just awesome to see the pearlescent cover with the Bob Peak artwork.

[Mr. Hooper 1,793]

5 hours ago, mstrox said:

The sound of the Superman OST on CD was dreadful, and Rhino was huge.

I've only ever known the old "2-Record Set On 1 Specially-Priced Compact Disc" release.

 

Sounds like I really need to get a sonic upgrade.

 

5 hours ago, Jay said:

It's ROTJ where some cues just don't sound as good as they did on the 1993 set.

Yeah, they sound almost muffled, like they were recorded with Soviet-era equipment or something. lol

 

Glad I held onto the 1993 box set... I remember how thrilling it was to finally hear 'The Final Duel' minus the sound effects.

[OneBuckFilms 323]

The LLLR is like night and day compared to the OST.

 

it also recreates the original album from the original masters, and it sounds superb.

[Andy 4,138]

1 hour ago, Mr. Hooper said:

I've only ever known the old "2-Record Set On 1 Specially-Priced Compact Disc" release.

 

Sounds like I really need to get a sonic upgrade.

Oh my God yes. Don’t wait.  It’s an amazing presentation. 

[crumbs 14,317]

2 hours ago, Mr. Hooper said:

I've only ever known the old "2-Record Set On 1 Specially-Priced Compact Disc" release.

 

Sounds like I really need to get a sonic upgrade.

 

They discovered the first generation multi-tracks for the 40th Anniversary release, and Mike mixed and mastered the entire score from scratch.

 

It will never sound better than it does on this CD (barring some theoretical Dolby Atmos release, which is possible thanks to the multitracks).

[Faleel 5,356]

25 minutes ago, crumbs said:

 

They discovered the first generation multi-tracks for the 40th Anniversary release, and Mike mixed and mastered the entire score from scratch.

 

It will never sound better than it does on this CD (barring some theoretical Dolby Atmos release, which is possible thanks to the multitracks).

Full rerecording...

[Mr. Hooper 1,793]

I thought it would be sold out by now at just 5000. Lucky for me they're not!

 

[Amer 2,110]

Maybe in a few years LLL will bring this out again as a 2CD edition. Evergreen titles like this needs to be in print.

[crumbs 14,317]

1 hour ago, Amer said:

Maybe in a few years LLL will bring this out again as a 2CD edition. Evergreen titles like this needs to be in print.

 

Seems very likely. Is there anything on disc 3 that isn't covered on the first two discs? I'm not familiar enough with the score.

 

I always assumed it was a slightly alternate mix for the album tracks, but ultimately the same takes as discs 1 and 2.

[Holko 9,529]

13 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Seems very likely. Is there anything on disc 3 that isn't covered on the first two discs? I'm not familiar enough with the score.

Some extra twinkling overlay in Fortress of Solitude. Not much, not too prominent.

[ThePenitentMan1 744]

1 hour ago, Holko said:

Some extra twinkling overlay in Fortress of Solitude. Not much, not too prominent.

 

Add the twinkling overlay by itself as an opener for Fortress of Solitude (Alternate Segment).  2-CD release is now missing nothing!

[Holko 9,529]

5 minutes ago, ThePenitentMan1 said:

 

Add the twinkling overlay by itself as an opener for Fortress of Solitude (Alternate Segment).  2-CD release is now missing nothing!

Haha no that wouldn't work at all. Just add it to the main program version as an overlay.

[ThePenitentMan1 744]

1 minute ago, Holko said:

Haha no that wouldn't work at all. Just add it to the main program version as an overlay.

 

I guess that'd also work; we'd have the clean version on the 3-CD anyway, right?

[Faleel 5,356]

3 hours ago, Holko said:

Some extra twinkling overlay in Fortress of Solitude. Not much, not too prominent.

What?

[Jay 37,369]

 

6 hours ago, crumbs said:

Is there anything on disc 3 that isn't covered on the first two discs? I'm not familiar enough with the score.

 

I always assumed it was a slightly alternate mix for the album tracks, but ultimately the same takes as discs 1 and 2.

 

This post answers all your questions:

 

On 18/09/2020 at 3:21 PM, Jay said:

The 3rd disc contains a brand new rebuild of the 1978 OST album because it's an iconic album and everyone felt it should be included in the definitive release of this score.

 

When JW constructed the album in 1978, it was all made from the same takes and mixes as the cues that went into the film (this is one of those scores where Tomlinson cut the performance edits directly on the 1st generation tape, so all releases have always had the correct takes everywhere).  When the original LP program was released on CD in the US years later, 2 tracks were cut to fit the CD limitations at the time; the full 1978 LP program had only been released on CD in Japan before the LLL debuted it in the US 41 years after its USA LP debut.

 

The entirety of the LLL set is an entirely new mix.  All previous albums used 2nd, 3rd, or 4th generation sources that all contained Tomlinson's film mix.  For this release the first gen tapes were finally found, but they were multitrack - Tomlinson's film mix was not re-dubbed onto spare tracks on the 1st gen tape.  So Mike created his own brand new mix from the first generation multitrack for every single cue in the score.

 

So this edition of the 1978 OST album is Mike's new mix, not Tomlinson's old mix.  After the mix, as far as mastering goes, the original LP was mastered in one way back in 78, the 2000 Rhino was mastered differently, and the 2008 was mastered differently again - except for any tracks they had to take off the album master.  The LLL album was entirely mastered by Mike including the OST rebuild.

 

One final note is that there is some piano heard in the Planet Krypton OST track that isn't otherwise in the Rhino, FSM, or LLL main program, so including the OST program in this set was a great way to include that little bit that Williams apparently liked enough to put on the LP (the only thing that differed from the film mix on the entire LP, other than the different placement of Margo Kidder's vocals)

[Tallguy 3,399]

This might be complaining about the weather, but there are some scores that just shouldn't be out of print. I know, go pay for it, smart guy. It's always easy to spend other people's money.

 

I remember working at a music store (just a few years too late to be called a record shop) in the mid 1990's. There was a 10 year old kid who was confused and disappointed that he couldn't buy the music to Star Wars without buying this fancy 4 CD box set (that his mom didn't seem too keen on springing for). It was a godsend to us, but still kind of limiting to the "general public".

[Andy 4,138]

9 hours ago, Amer said:

Maybe in a few years LLL will bring this out again as a 2CD edition. Evergreen titles like this needs to be in print.

I truly believe that technology will advance such that these old recordings could indeed be made to sound better. Call it A.I. if you must, but I can imagine there will be advances such that this could sound like it was a new recording, without being revisionist. 

[Mr. Hooper 1,793]

Okay, 'Superman' is sitting in my cart over at La-La Land... But now I'm also looking at their Close Encounters and E.T. releases.

 

I've got the '98 CE3K and 2002 E.T. Is it worth upgrading?

 

I'm not a completist that needs every last note of recorded music, but am more interested in improved sound quality.

 

If there's a night-and-day difference like you guys are saying for 'Superman', then I'll add to cart.

[Jay 37,369]

Close Encounters was another brand new remix by Mike from the original 1st gen multittrack, just like Superman. It sounds INCREDIBLE, especially the choir. The set also includes a bunch of really great music that isn't on the 1998 set. 

 

ET isn't a new remix, but it's certainly the greatest sounding version yet of Bruce Botnick's great 1982 mixes. It also includes the original OST album, which was largely made up of new arrangements recorded directly for it, so aren't in the '96 or '02 expansions at all. I'd say it's essential. 

 

[Mr. Hooper 1,793]

Thanks Jay, I'm excited about all 3 now! Yeah, I'm a big fan of the E.T. OST album. Add to cart!

 

UPDATE!

 

Curses!

 

Superman was listed as "now shipping", and I was allowed to add to cart, but couldn't proceed with order. They should update the shipping status to "SOLD OUT"! Surprised, not surprised.

 

But, Close Encounters and E.T. are on the way...

 

You know how it is when you go shopping... Go in for one thing, come out with two others. lol

[Tallguy 3,399]

@Mr. Hooper I might be on the fence about E.T. (not a universal opinion) but Close Encounters is mind blowing. I never listened to the 1993 CE. It always rubbed me the wrong way and I always listened to the original CD (from the LP). The LLL CE fixed that.

 

Now I'm thinking I should get E.T....

[rough cut 1,714]

@Mr. Hooper Good man! You can’t go wrong with CE3K and E.T. 😊

 

Get Superman bundled with Jaws (another essential JW album) on your next shopping trip! 

[Mr. Hooper 1,793]

I got the Intrada Jaws releases (Even Jaws: The Revenge!), which I'm not sure can be improved upon. But as Andy pointed out, anything's possible as technology improves.

 

As for Superman, I may just wait for a re-release from LLL rather than get gouged on eBay.

[Tallguy 3,399]

See? It's breaking my heart that there is anyone going without this version of the score! (That wants it of course. I'm not a zealot.) 

[OneBuckFilms 323]

I hope some day soon we get a reissue of this score from this mastering.

 

Even a straight re-issue would be perfect.

[Datameister 2,044]

Superman, E.T., and CE3K are all fantastic releases. E.T. is probably the least mind-blowing for me simply because previous releases were already so good, but I'm still glad I picked it up.

[Andy 4,138]

I hope the next reissue of CE3K sensibly crossfades Contact into End Titles instead of having them discrete. I don’t know what Matessino was thinking. 
 

These should always be in print. 

[Amer 2,110]

Another essential is LLL's :

 

EMPIRE of the SUN

 

A must have but I think the 2CD is OOP too.

 

This should be reissued too.

[crumbs 14,317]

1 hour ago, Andy said:

I hope the next reissue of CE3K sensibly crossfades Contact into End Titles instead of having them discrete. I don’t know what Matessino was thinking. 
 

These should always be in print. 

 

Well he was probably thinking it's a lot easier for people to crossfade the two tracks themselves (if they want them combined) than separate them if he only included a crossfaded version.

[Trope 527]

20 minutes ago, crumbs said:

 

Well he was probably thinking it's a lot easier for people to crossfade those two tracks themselves (if they wanted them combined), than to separate them if he only included a crossfaded version on the set.

Also, Resolution and End Title is crossfaded on disc 2. So you get both!

[Andy 4,138]

22 minutes ago, crumbs said:

 

Well he was probably thinking it's a lot easier for people to crossfade those two tracks themselves (if they wanted them combined), than to separate them if he only included a crossfaded version on the set.

Oh most certainly I’m sure. I’m just surprised Williams OK’d it, given how the concert and film arrangements continuous 

 

1 minute ago, Trope said:

Also, Resolution and End Title is crossfaded on disc 2. So you get both!

 

But wrongly by truncating Contact’s sustained end note by about a half second.  The Arista anniversary CD actually gets it right as it is in the film.  It’s a nitpick to be sure, but I never liked the OST crossfade, which is what we get on disc 2. 

[Trope 527]

34 minutes ago, Andy said:

But wrongly by truncating Contact’s sustained end note by about a half second.  The Arista anniversary CD actually gets it right as it is in the film.  It’s a nitpick to be sure, but I never liked the OST crossfade, which is what we get on disc 2. 

Wow, I never knew this! The 45th anniversary LLL CD is the only edition of this score I own and have listened to.

[crumbs 14,317]

1 hour ago, Andy said:

I’m just surprised Williams OK’d it, given how the concert and film arrangements continuous 

 

He's become a lot more forgiving of things like this lately. I remember Mike saying he had to convince JW to allow  the two cues in Incident at Isla Nublar to be separated on the 2016 LLL.

 

I think he now understands the rationale behind expansions: they're a counterpart to his OSTs, not a replacement.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,544]

1 hour ago, crumbs said:

... they're a counterpart to his OSTs, not a replacement.

 

"Yeah!" (said @Thor)  

[Brónach 1,302]

5 hours ago, crumbs said:

 

He's become a lot more forgiving of things like this lately. I remember Mike saying he had to convince JW to allow  the two cues in Incident at Isla Nublar to be separated on the 2016 LLL.

 

I think he now understands the rationale behind expansions: they're a counterpart to his OSTs, not a replacement.

 

to me this is true with an OST like Jaws or E.T.

[Amer 2,110]

Back in Stock at LLL

 

https://lalalandrecords.com/superman-the-movie-40th-anniv-remastered-limited-edition-3-cd-set/

[Naïve Old Fart 9,544]

Absolutely fantastic!

Can someone lend me $39.98 (plus shipping)? 

[GerateWohl 4,370]

I found, that when I have overlistened this score, which can happen after 40 years, then Courage's reworked score for Superman IV is a pleasant alternative to enjoy Williams' Superman music again. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

2 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Can someone lend me $39.98 (plus shipping)?

 

11 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

I found that

 

[Brando 1,864]

On 26/08/2023 at 8:05 AM, Jay said:

One final note is that there is some piano heard in the Planet Krypton OST track that isn't otherwise in the Rhino, FSM, or LLL main program,

Is this heard at 3:08 - 3:10 on the OST track? If so, that's in the alternate Krypton track. I was trying to find where the alternate piano bit and I think that might be it.

[Jay 37,369]

I thought it was 2:09-3:09

 

On 27/09/2020 at 4:42 PM, QuartalHarmony said:

The OST track (LLL CD3, T2) has rather atonal piano flourishes underlying the high synth parts from 2:09-3:09. I've just listened to it, closely followed by CD1, T2 and the latter part of the same segment, also starting at 2:09, has less piano later on. I think I prefer the OST in this instance.

 

[Brando 1,864]

Ah I see, I didn't realize someone already found the differences, thank you

[QuartalHarmony 543]

You’re welcome (and thank you, Jay, for digging out my post).

 

I should perhaps say that that’s all I spotted: if anyone hears any other piano additions elsewhere (it’s a long cue/track, after all), do please say so.