Popular Post Nick1Ø66 4,720 Posted March 17, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted March 17, 2023 4 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said: Why is calling out problematic racist portrayals necessarily left-wing? But you didn't leave it at that, did you? On 16/3/2023 at 12:32 PM, Yavar Moradi said: Temple of Doom has many more redeeming features about it than Gone With the Wind, it's still incredibly problematic, and if literally nothing in it bothers you and even makes you wince for a moment then, well, that mostly just says something about you. 6 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said: To put it bluntly: If you find nothing problematic in the film, you are okay with racism. It's one thing to say you find TOD problematic, that's your opinion. But you had to suggest the people who didn't see the film your way are "okay" with racism, which is just one step away from calling them a racist. And that's not OK, and kind of f*cked up. By suggesting someone is racist because they don't see a film they way you do, you're attacking that person in one of the most vicious ways possible. It's one of the reasons we can't have nice things here. How about just a fun celebration of the Indy films w/o suggesting people are racists? So, once again, try to criticise the art without having a go at the people who appreciate it. Gurkensalat, TolkienSS, 1977 and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,372 Posted March 17, 2023 Author Share Posted March 17, 2023 Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,599 Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 Again, I said that people are free to appreciate/enjoy ToD and even that I enjoy it, to an extent. But IF for example someone finds nothing problematic in Birth of a Nation (or Gone With the Wind, a film more actively beloved by many people today), it's just a fact that they are not bothered by the obvious racism contained within. That's not some left-wing agenda. How is it any different in Temple of Doom? This was my original post, Jay: "Yup I'm *really* hoping that's the "new ending" that Williams wrote new music for earlier this year. It would make sense and it would be amazing if Williams brought back Short Round's theme for him!!" — 100% celebratory. And this was my second post, which ultimately led to the contentious exchange: On 16/03/2023 at 12:07 AM, Yavar Moradi said: That’s not at all what happened for me. I still consider it a lesser film and *easily* the worst of the original trilogy. I can’t watch it without cringing most of the time. It was dated (to put it kindly) in the 80s and it’s even worse now. Are there things to admire about it, though? Absolutely! Ford is great, Quan is great, and their chemistry is just wonderful, with some moments that are pure magic thanks to the third “great”: John Williams and his incredible score… probably my favorite of the whole franchise to be honest. I think over the years I’ve come to see it as the Empire to Raiders’ Star Wars, if that makes any sense. It’s so much richer and it really carries the film. So yeah, Temple of Doom is still extremely problematic for me. But Quan and his relationship with Ford was always the saving grace of that film, besides the score. And I’m so happy for him that he’s had this comeback. If Short Round is squeezed into the end of Dial of Destiny, I’ll be delighted even if the rest of the film is as trash as the stupid rumor mill wants us to believe. It’ll be bringing back the best part of the worst of the original trilogy. Still (partially) celebratory, even of Temple of Doom. I only went into further detail in the thread because I was directly asked: On 16/03/2023 at 10:03 AM, SilverTrumpet said: So is your issue mostly cultural sensitivity? We just watched the movie again over the weekend and I was sitting there still in disbelief that anyone could think the movie is a bad movie whatsoever. I get it not being someone's favorite, but "easily" the weakest, or bad (as some people think)? No way! And someone else suggested my issues with the film (which I had upon first viewing it a mere decade after it was released, as a pre-teen who had already experienced racism due to my middle eastern heritage) was "judging stuff from the past by modern standards" -- that's when I felt compelled to share a film review from the time the film came out, one which was not politically motivated but which frankly and reasonably took issue with racist portrayals in the film. So... I've answered your "why did you do this?" I certainly didn't set out to hijack your thread, which should be obvious from my first two posts in it. Yavar enderdrag64 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Brando 1,864 Posted March 18, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted March 18, 2023 I got a little bit of speed at 1 am so I was finally allowed to read thru this thread after seeing it on here since yesterday and not being able to read thru it because of the slowness. Temple of Doom is my favorite and seeing all the love for Quan has made me so happy. I love the story he tells of him seeing Ford at D23 and how he wasn’t sure if Ford would remember him but he pointed at him and asked “are you Short Round?” And he was transported back to 1984. All of my fingers are crossed that he has a cameo in DoD. Andy, Gabriel Bezerra, Yavar Moradi and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Holko 9,529 Posted March 18, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted March 18, 2023 15 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said: Anyone considering it the best of the original trilogy has to be willing to overlook/forgive that stuff… and it’s just messed up, to say the least. How about this: instead of this stuff, we'll assume all these people who made it here (and weren't banned or chased out already for being massive cunts) are intelligent enough to enjoy a greatly made very enjoyable movie while also being able to tell on our own that the people depicted in it are not the real people we meet in real life. I for example work with Indians every day and if there would any unfortunate sliver of racism I'd discover in myself, it would not be because of a movie where people jump out of airplanes on inflatable rafts and tear people's hearts out while they remain alive told me to. Telling us we suck anyway or us saying "you know what, I don't enjoy this enjoyable movie then" will not stop racism or unmake the movie or make the actual dumb people not take it as face value to reinforce their already present racism. I'll take my warning for this last post in this specific topic though I do agree it's a sad state of affairs when "racism is not good, is this racism or not" would count as a political talking point. Gurkensalat, Andy, Brando and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Naïve Old Fart 9,551 Posted March 18, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted March 18, 2023 Geez, Louise, it's TEMPLE OF DOOM. It's not HOLOCAUST. None of it is ever meant to be taken seriously. BIRTH OF A NATION; GONE WITH THE WIND; TEMPLE OF DOOM, all these films might have racial stereotypes, or racial themes, but that does not stop them from being great films. PSYCHO has a knife-wielding, murdering manic, who dresses up as his dead mother, and that is among the greatest films ever made! These films are products of their times, and should - must - be judged accordingly. Watch them, or don't watch them, but bitching about them ain't gonna change them, one bit. Now, if you don't mind, I've got badder fish to fry (adjusts bow-tie, and walks off-camera). Andy, Brando, Jurassic Shark and 4 others 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jurassic Shark 12,083 Posted March 18, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted March 18, 2023 48 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said: Now, if you don't mind, I've got badder fish to fry There's always a bigger fish. Brando, Andy and Nick1Ø66 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy 4,141 Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 I just found this at Target. It made me laugh so it came home with me IMG_6283.mp4 Naïve Old Fart and Brando 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TolkienSS 407 Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 On 17/03/2023 at 12:07 AM, Holko said: Says the one who has to reply to everyone to defend his own stance Fans of ToD feel like defending it because it's often looked at as a lesser film and because Spielberg himself didn't seem to like it very much. It's not because some Freudian defense mechanism. That's just cringe. Fans felt like defending ToD probably two decades before Woke Hollywood was even remotely a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Nick1Ø66 4,720 Posted March 18, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted March 18, 2023 Temple of Doom has really grown on me the past several years. It's still my least favourite among the three films, but I've really come to appreciate it, and judge it on its own terms rather than as a sequel to Raiders. The opening musical number, and the entire opening scene in fact leading up to the plane escape in particular, is fantastic. I've also come to like Willie Scott more, and now actually find her less annoying than Marion. Holko, Andy and Brando 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Andy 4,141 Posted March 18, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted March 18, 2023 Marion in Crystal Skull is more annoying than Willie. GerateWohl, Bellosh and TolkienSS 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bellosh 3,419 Posted March 19, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted March 19, 2023 6 hours ago, Andy said: Marion in Crystal Skull is more annoying than Willie. dude holy shit you ain't wrong. such a shame to such a strong character in Raiders. It's like how Last Crusade made Brody a clown (one of the most HORRIBLE decisions from the trilogy) unpopular opinion: Indy grabbing the hat from Mutt was a better send off than riding into the sunset. Andy, ThePenitentMan1 and Brando 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Andy 4,141 Posted March 19, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted March 19, 2023 Marion in Raiders is how we’d all like to act on an adventure with Indy. Willie is how we’d actually act. Bellosh, 1977, Brando and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,720 Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 42 minutes ago, Bellosh said: unpopular opinion: Indy grabbing the hat from Mutt was a better send off than riding into the sunset. No. No. Um…no. Jurassic Shark and Holko 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellosh 3,419 Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 hey i said it was an unpopular opinion..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,720 Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 Last Crusade's ride into the sunset was the perfect send-off for Indy. It's not an opinion. Jay and Bellosh 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellosh 3,419 Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 12 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said: Last Crusade's ride into the sunset was the perfect send-off for Indy. 10000% it was. Until 2008. Nick1Ø66 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Nick1Ø66 4,720 Posted March 19, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted March 19, 2023 What happened in 2008? THERE. ARE. THREE. FILMS! Jay, Bellosh, Edmilson and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brando 1,864 Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 1 hour ago, Andy said: Willie is how we’d actually act. Literally. If I am soaking wet and fully clothed, I am not a happy camper and everyone around me will hear about it. Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellosh 3,419 Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 21 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said: What happened in 2008? THERE. ARE. THREE. FILMS! all joking aside, they had a lot to live up to with that sunset ending. for all the things wrong with KOTCS, they got it right with that send off to Indy. the ball is in DoD's court now. ThePenitentMan1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Andy 4,141 Posted March 19, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted March 19, 2023 11 minutes ago, Brando said: Literally. If I am soaking wet and fully clothed, I am not a happy camper and everyone around me will hear about it. Willie Scott is obviously written to be the complete opposite of Marion, but truly, she’s there as the point of view for the audience to identify with. All the criticism her character and performance has taken over the years, I just don’t get. If I see a mouse startle me, I let out an unearthly abdominal scream out of pure instinct. If I were in the Hell of Pankot with that lion tamer and the kid, I’d be soiling myself. Also, her being a complete sissy makes Shorty and Jones seem that much cooler. They are the best Lucasfilm trio after Luke, Han, and Leia. Maybe even better. Edmilson, Brando and 1977 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bellosh 3,419 Posted March 19, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted March 19, 2023 spielberg and lucas at the top of their game TolkienSS, Andy, Sweeping Strings and 2 others 1 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brando 1,864 Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 13 minutes ago, Andy said: Willie Scott is obviously written to be the complete opposite of Marion, but truly, she’s there as the point of view for the audience to identify with. All the criticism her character and performance has taken over the years, I just don’t get. If I see a mouse startle me, I let out an unearthly abdominal scream out of pure instinct. If I were in the Hell of Pankot with that lion tamer and the kid, I’d be soiling myself. Also, her being a complete sissy makes Shorty and Jones seem that much cooler. They are the best Lucasfilm trio after Luke, Han, and Leia. Maybe even better. 3 minutes ago, Bellosh said: spielberg and lucas at the top of their game A perfect frame Bellosh and Andy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,083 Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 5 hours ago, Bellosh said: It's like how Last Crusade made Brody a clown (one of the most HORRIBLE decisions from the trilogy) What do you mean? He can blend in anywhere. 4 hours ago, Andy said: If I see a mouse startle me, I let out an unearthly abdominal scream out of pure instinct. Umm... OK. Where's @publicist when you need him? Has he been banned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post GerateWohl 4,371 Posted March 19, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted March 19, 2023 And here comes probably the most unpopular opinion of the whole thread. Yes, Kingdom of the Crystal Skull is full of flaws etc. But I find watching it more entertaining than Temple of Doom. ToD happens to be my least favourite of the series, even though it probably has the best score of all the films. Edmilson, bruce marshall, Andy and 1 other 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Naïve Old Fart 9,551 Posted March 19, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted March 19, 2023 I've posted before, and I'll post again: ... CRYSTAL SKULL is not about Indiana Jones. It's not about Jones' search for the skull, it's about Mutt's search for Oxley. Once you lock-in to the Mutt/Oxley relationship, it becomes a deeper, richer film. Brando, GerateWohl and Andy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Andy 4,141 Posted March 19, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted March 19, 2023 I like most of Crystal Skull. I also like most of Last Crusade. bruce marshall, GerateWohl and Brando 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Romão 2,274 Posted March 19, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted March 19, 2023 There's one aspect in which I find KOTCS particularly lacking and where TOD particularly excels, and that is the cinematography. And that is a huge factor in enjoying these movies crumbs, ThePenitentMan1, Brando and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,551 Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 Of course, @Romão. How on earth can Janus Kaminski ever hope to compare to the great Dougie Slocombe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,372 Posted March 19, 2023 Author Share Posted March 19, 2023 8 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: Where's @publicist when you need him? Has he been banned? Nope Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy 4,141 Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 I can’t understand why they broke tradition and didn’t have a fist fight in Last Crusade. Missed opportunity for action, humor, peril, and music. KOTCS returns to form with great one on one brawls with Dovchenko. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,242 Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 26 minutes ago, Andy said: I can’t understand why they broke tradition and didn’t have a fist fight in Last Crusade. No fist fight, but Pat Roach was nearly in The Last Crusade, in a deleted scene: http://www.theraider.net/films/crusade/deleted_scenes.php Brando and Andy 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brando 1,864 Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 1 hour ago, Andy said: I can’t understand why they broke tradition and didn’t have a fist fight in Last Crusade. Missed opportunity for action, humor, peril, and music. KOTCS returns to form with great one on one brawls with Dovchenko. Alright, so I understand this. But you can't deny, Indy repeatedly slamming Vogel's face into the tank after climbing back on top makes up for it. Also, right before dad pops out and he throws his fist into his chin, that's a great punch. Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerateWohl 4,371 Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 Listened today again to the Temple of Doom score and thought again that it is strange that KotCS was the first Indy OST with special concert arrangements of major themes. All previous OSTs just contained special edits of film tracks and the only "concert arrangement" were the end titles, which is really an exception in Williams' work. Andy and Yavar Moradi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brando 1,864 Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 4 minutes ago, GerateWohl said: Listened today again to the Temple of Doom score and thought again that it is strange that KotCS was the first Indy OST with special concert arrangements of major themes. All previous OSTs just contained special edits of film tracks and the only "concert arrangement" were the end titles, which is really an exception in Williams' work. It is a bit odd there aren't any concert arrangements, yeah. I wish we had full pieces for the Ark and the Grail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,372 Posted March 19, 2023 Author Share Posted March 19, 2023 48 minutes ago, GerateWohl said: Listened today again to the Temple of Doom score and thought again that it is strange that KotCS was the first Indy OST with special concert arrangements of major themes. All previous OSTs just contained special edits of film tracks and the only "concert arrangement" were the end titles, which is really an exception in Williams' work. Yea, it's really weird isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,083 Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 Well, it's not the first time that JW concert arrangements have come after the release of the OST. I guess it varies how much disposable time he has for such things before going into the recording studio. GerateWohl and Brando 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1977 1,743 Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 On 16/03/2023 at 12:14 PM, Tom Guernsey said: I'm sure someone from FSM (might have been Lukas K actually) told an anecdote where they were in a queue behind Ke Huy Quan and they whistled Short Round's theme, but was disappointed not to get a response. I too remember that story. That was an FSM podcast released before KotCS where they speculated on how the upcoming score would sound relative to the prior trilogy. I also remember one of the hosts saying he would be fine with it as long as it didn't sound like Dex's Diner On 17/03/2023 at 9:49 PM, Yavar Moradi said: But IF for example someone finds nothing problematic in Birth of a Nation (or Gone With the Wind, a film more actively beloved by many people today), it's just a fact that they are not bothered by the obvious racism contained within. That's not some left-wing agenda. What's great is DoD will right all these wrongs. I can't wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Edmilson 7,470 Posted March 19, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted March 19, 2023 What do you guys think about this? Brando, Andy, crumbs and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerateWohl 4,371 Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 23 minutes ago, Brando said: It is a bit odd there aren't any concert arrangements, yeah. I wish we had full pieces for the Ark and the Grail. I mean, Williams created some for his Sony Spielberg albums: The Basket Chase Marion's Theme Slave Children's Parade Scherzo for Motorcycle and Orchestra But they were not on the OSTs in that form. Brando 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,083 Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 30 minutes ago, Edmilson said: What do you guys think about this? YES PLEASE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerateWohl 4,371 Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 34 minutes ago, Edmilson said: What do you guys think about this? At last we would get to see an academy award winner's acting performance as a lead in Indiana Jones. What an imrovement. Finish to these second rate actors like Harrison Ford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,083 Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 He could also do the music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy 4,141 Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 It’s my understanding he has spent years doing stunt coordination. He could do the action scenes for sure! Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,083 Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 5 minutes ago, Andy said: It’s my understanding he has spent years doing stunt coordination. He could do the action scenes for sure! Or at least coordinate them! Smeltington and Andy 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,470 Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 Yeah, I think an adventure movie mixing globe-trotting Indy adventure with martial arts could be awesome. Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,599 Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 3 hours ago, Edmilson said: What do you guys think about this? I’ve thought about it constantly since seeing those pictures of them together at D23… and Quan obviously has the chops be an action lead. IMO he was always the obvious inheritor of the hat, but since he didn’t seem to be acting any more I don’t think it even occurred to anybody until last year. Yavar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,083 Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 Of course someone at Lucasfilm must have thought about bringing back the character, either with the original actor or a new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docteur Qui 1,544 Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 Seems like a no-brainer for them to do some kind of Short Round thing, in addition to his rumoured late addition to DoD. I imagine Quan would be super keen, and considering the failure of the Willow reboot and the diminishing returns that is the Star Wars machine, Lucasfilm would be silly not to capitalise on the moment he's having. It's not like they have any other avenues to exploit the Indy IP... although knowing Disney we could end up with Sallah: Origins in 2030. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,599 Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 I mean, they might… but we won’t know until the movie comes out and we see how good (and popular) PWB’s character is. But hell if she’s great why not team them up? Yavar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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