Taikomochi 1,143 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 4 minutes ago, Edmilson said: Isn't this a bit too dark and brooding for a map scene? They used to be scored in a more upbeat way IIRC. There was that wilted, anxious statement of the Raiders March for the one map transition in Crystal Skull when they moved to the Amazon. This doesn’t seem that tonally out of step with that. Edmilson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellosh 3,484 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 @Edmilson don't know why but this 2 second bit reminded me of 'The Patriot'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,364 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 11 minutes ago, Edmilson said: Isn't this a bit too dark and brooding for a map scene? They used to be scored in a more upbeat way IIRC. I mean, without getting into spoilers, the film is pretty dark and brooding. It ain't exactly a "fun" adventure movie. The second map cue occurs after some Spoiler pretty heavy shit happens. It's not too dissimilar to the second map cue in KOCS anyway. Edmilson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 Some more perspective themes Archimedes Theme (?) Prologue to Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny 4:08 - end (possible concert rendition) Archimedes' Tomb 1:13 - 1:46 Trope 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 I have a specific question. Does the "Dial of Destiny" theme (Prologue 4.08 -End) have unreleased variations in the film? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,364 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, King Mark said: I have a specific question. Is the "Dial of Destiny" theme (Prologue 4.08 -End) have unreleased variations in the film? My feeling is the Dial had a few moments of interesting orchestration, but melodically nothing really clicked to me. Some oscillating strings or whatever, but they permeate the whole score. If the point of reference is something like the Grail theme, they're on different planets. Spoiler It seems like a missed opportunity maybe, given all the fetch quests required before the characters can execute the Dial's power. Musically Williams could've approached this in a fragmented way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien F 1,742 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, King Mark said: I have a specific question. Does the "Dial of Destiny" theme (Prologue 4.08 -End) have unreleased variations in the film? @King Mark It might have a slightly longer version in the end credits. I could be wrong. I haven't had a chance to compare the end credits with the Prologue track. Take a look at my post in the "Score in the film" thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted June 28, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 28, 2023 I'm beginning to think between motifs and themes and what not, there could be over a dozen new identities in this score. It is more dense and elaborate than initially appears! ---- Some more perspective themes Macguffin/Dial Theme 1 Prologue to Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny 3:43 - 4:03 Polybius Cipher 0:40 - 0:49 Brando, MaxMovieMan and Trope 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 someone recorded the end credits it's the same as Prologue 2 minutes ago, Damien F said: @King Mark It might have a slightly longer version in the end credits. I could be wrong. I haven't had a chance to compare the end credits with the Prologue track. Take a look at my post in the "Score in the film" thread. Damien F and TheUlyssesian 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,581 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 10 minutes ago, Bellosh said: @Edmilson don't know why but this 2 second bit reminded me of 'The Patriot'. It reminded me a bit of the trumpet motif that plays in The Patriot whenever Mel Gibson remembers his violent past with the native americans. 8 minutes ago, crumbs said: I mean, without getting into spoilers, the film is pretty dark and brooding. It ain't exactly a "fun" adventure movie. Geez... First Bond, now Indy also gets the Nolan-ized "dark and disturbing" aesthetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien F 1,742 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 6 minutes ago, King Mark said: I have a specific question. Does the "Dial of Destiny" theme (Prologue 4.08 -End) have unreleased variations in the film? There isn't any great 'Map Room: Dawn' style unreleased version of that theme. crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artguy360 1,845 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 I re-ordered the OST with the ASM version of Helena's theme as the opening track. I think it works as a concert piece dripping with golden-age vibes. I moved the orchestral Helena's theme to after the Prologue and put the full Raider's March at the very end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 1 minute ago, Damien F said: There isn't any great 'Map Room: Dawn' style unreleased version of that theme. Ok,that's a relief Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellosh 3,484 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, Edmilson said: It reminded me a bit of the trumpet motif that plays in The Patriot whenever Mel Gibson remembers his violent past with the native americans. yup that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,364 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, artguy360 said: I re-ordered the OST with the ASM version of Helena's theme as the opening track. I think it works as a concert piece dripping with golden-age vibes. I moved the orchestral Helena's theme to after the Prologue and put the full Raider's March at the very end. Even after only watching the film once, I can say the Raiders March would work far better as the album closer than Helena's Theme (either version). The orchestral version belongs directly after the film's final cue! I don't mind the overture of her theme at the start of the Prologue, but the violin version would probably work even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 The OST is so short it's easy to memorise it before seeing the movie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien F 1,742 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 Even taking into account the unreleased music from the 1944 scenes and the New York scenes, I don't think this OST is anywhere near as poor of a representation of the score as the OSTs to KOTCS and TROS were. crumbs and Taikomochi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,364 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 1 minute ago, Damien F said: Even taking into account the unreleased music from the 1944 scenes and the New York scenes, I don't think this OST is anywhere near as poor of a representation of the score as the OSTs to KOTSC and TROS were. Agreed. I'm frustrated by the huge chunks missing from 1944 and New York. But overall everything in the film where I went "I want that!" is on here, albeit microedited in places. The bazaar source from Morocco would've been nice to have though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien F 1,742 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 1 minute ago, crumbs said: Agreed. I'm frustrated by the huge chunks missing from 1944 and New York. But overall everything in the film where I went "I want that!" is on here, albeit microedited in places. The bazaar source from Morocco would've been nice to have though. It is crazy he decided to leave empty space on the album rather than filling it with more cues from 1944 and New York. Edmilson and ThePenitentMan1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,302 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 12 minutes ago, King Mark said: Ok,that's a relief no this is sad igger6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 Well yeah in the sense that theme should have been more developed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellosh 3,484 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 prob my favorite use of the B theme of all time (until Sinister Visitors gets the proper release) Jilal and WDG01 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 but that's lifted from Last Crusade (unreleased Packet from Dad) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellosh 3,484 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 totally different than Indy's Home i see your edit, i don't think so to be honest @King Mark this one? i still think it sounds different enough Tydirium 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 yeah I didn't quite place it at first but that's it. At least we have a similar quote in c.d. quality sound now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,364 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 12 minutes ago, Bellosh said: prob my favorite use of the B theme of all time (until Sinister Visitors gets the proper release) It's lovely... but :28 is a great example of the temp track love that permeates the score, and it constantly takes you out of the movie. Was obviously temped with this cue from KOCS: Bellosh, Jilal and TheUlyssesian 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post p0llux 400 Posted June 28, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 28, 2023 God I love that Helena's Theme is front and center. It literally opens the album. For those struggling with this theme, I really hope it's multiple uses in this score help cement it in your minds. It is a top theme. That said, it might be a while(or never) before we hear from Williams again in the film department. So enjoy this and really take it all in. Tydirium, Brando, Bellosh and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellosh 3,484 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 1 minute ago, crumbs said: It's lovely... but :28 is a great example of the temp track love that permeates the score, and it constantly takes you out of the movie. Was obviously temped with this cue from KOCS: yeah i knew that from kotcs. gotta say i don't mind it all that much. it's a highlight from KOTCS for me Gabriel Bezerra and Tydirium 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,364 Posted June 28, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 28, 2023 Just now, Bellosh said: yeah i knew that from kotcs. gotta say i don't mind it all that much. it's a highlight from KOTCS for me At least it made the OST this time Martinland, Edmilson, Bellosh and 3 others 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellosh 3,484 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, p0llux said: God I love that Helena's Theme is front and center. It literally opens the album. For those struggling with this theme, I really hope it's multiple uses in this score help cement it in your minds. It is a top theme. her theme is lovely when the beginning piano parts of her suite get used like this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien F 1,742 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, p0llux said: God I love that Helena's Theme is front and center. It literally opens the album. For those struggling with this theme, I really hope it's multiple uses in this score help cement it in your minds. It is a top theme. When I listened to the OST yesterday, I was surprised how often her theme appeared compared to Indy's theme. Having now seen the movie, that makes sense. She really is the driving force of the plot. However, the unreleased statements of Indy's theme during the tuk tuk chase would have balanced it out a little on the album had they been included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 The loud brass passage at 3.29 of Prologue is lifted from somewhere in KoTCS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,302 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 it's a mess MaxMovieMan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,364 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, Damien F said: When I listened to the OST yesterday, I was surprised how often her theme appeared compared to Indy's theme. Having now seen the movie, that makes sense. She really is the driving force of the plot. However, the unreleased statements of Indy's theme during the tuk tuk chase would have balanced it out a little on the album had they been included. I could count on one hand the amount of times Indy's theme appears in the film after the prologue! I appreciate that they took the David Arnold/Bond/Casino Royale approach here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellosh 3,484 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 i'm so late to this discovery (since i only listened to that original concert upload of helena's theme once or twice, didn't like the sound quality) but 2:45-2:49 is a beautiful nod to marion's theme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tydirium 1,168 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 I’m honestly still not entirely convinced that that’s an intentional reference to Marion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,203 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 It's definitely lifted from Marion's theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p0llux 400 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 Oh it's 1000% from Marion's Theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Brónach 1,302 Posted June 28, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 28, 2023 it's a mess! Martinland, MaxMovieMan and Jilal 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tydirium 1,168 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 It’s the same notes, but I’m just not convinced Williams sat there and consciously thought “I’m going to reference Marion’s theme here.” crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Romão 2,276 Posted June 28, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 28, 2023 I think it is absolutely intentional Jurassic Shark, KK and TheUlyssesian 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,203 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 5 minutes ago, Tydirium said: It’s the same notes, but I’m just not convinced Williams sat there and consciously thought “I’m going to reference Marion’s theme here.” If it had been parts of the love theme from The Terminal that was quoted, your post would have made sense. Taikomochi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,581 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 Me too. Sneaky JW always enjoyed making these kinds of references. Remember the Imperial March disguised in Anakin's Theme? Although in Anakin's case that reference made sense, now this... is JW implying that Indy and Helena are going to fornicate? crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p0llux 400 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 It's 2000% intentional. John Williams is the smartest composer in Hollywood. Everything is intentional for him, especially for Indiana Jones franchise where everything is literally a homage to something in the past or an in house joke to something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schilkeman 997 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, Edmilson said: Me too. Sneaky JW always enjoyed making these kinds of references. Remember the Imperial March disguised in Anakin's Theme? Although in Anakin's case that reference made sense, now this... is JW implying that Indy and Helena are going to fornicate? Yes, that's what it means Christ, there's some weird takes in this thread. Martinland and MaxMovieMan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien F 1,742 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 Spoiler for the end of the movie: Spoiler Helena is responsible for bringing Marion back to Indy's apartment so JW might have been thinking about that when writing the theme. Edmilson and Brando 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,203 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 8 minutes ago, Edmilson said: Me too. Sneaky JW always enjoyed making these kinds of references. Remember the Imperial March disguised in Anakin's Theme? Although in Anakin's case that reference made sense, now this... is JW implying that Indy and Helena are going to fornicate? The track accompanies the scene where "Helena" is revealed to be Marion in disguise. Anybody else thinks the march in track 17 sags a bit? Kind of bottom heavy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Indianagirl 298 Posted June 28, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 28, 2023 So I’m spending most of my day in the airport and air today. I forgot my ear pods and I just realized the score came out today and not Friday. Does it mean I have a problem when I immediately went to the little technology shop and bought new overpriced EarPods so I can listen today while I wait around in airport? Taikomochi, heidl, Jay and 5 others 2 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 Of course it is intentinal! Other composers do this too. Ilia's theme suite from Star Trek 1979 references the main theme within it at 2:42. Tara's theme main title from Gone With The Wind references Rhett Butler's theme within it at 2:31. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,364 Posted June 28, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, Damien F said: Spoiler for the end of the movie: From a dramatic standpoint, this makes perfect sense. It's only a fleeting reference in her theme, which is apt considering the film's narrative. Brando, Damien F and Brónach 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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