Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (Score in the film) - SPOILERS ALLOWED!

[Brando 1,864]

12 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

is there anything in the background of the new york bar where helena and indy take a whiskey?

I don't think so

 

[Manakin Skywalker 4,897]

22 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

Guys, could “Pulse of the city” be a source music instrumental song? It is under “songs” in the end credits. Do they usually credit additional composer’s film cues there? 
 

and it’s name really evokes a source music composition like jazz or something.

 

is there anything in the background of the new york bar where helena and indy take a whiskey?

 

There is no music listed by John Williams for the piano piece in the cue list, it's completely blank in that section (it jumps from "Helena Runs!" to "Sallah to the Rescue"). That would seem to confirm it's indeed Pulse of the City. There is no unidentified source music either.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Its weird really. Mangold asked williams if he could compose 70s music and he said sure i can do… and pulse of the city is the only music thats sounds like 70s williams , for example, black sunday…

[crumbs 14,318]

49 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

Its weird really. Mangold asked williams if he could compose 70s music and he said sure i can do… and pulse of the city is the only music thats sounds like 70s williams , for example, black sunday…

 

Yeah, in hindsight I find that anecdote kinda weird. Mangold asks Williams for something specific, Williams responds that he can do it, then hands it off to Ross instead.

 

Maybe Williams did a quick sketch without orchestration, gave Ross verbal instructions for the type of instrumentation he wanted, then Ross did the rest. And as a result of this task being more involved than mere orchestration, Williams decided he should be credited for the whole cue.

[Marian Schedenig 8,206]

3 hours ago, crumbs said:

Yeah, in hindsight I find that anecdote kinda weird. Mangold asks Williams for something specific, Williams responds that he can do it, then hands it off to Ross instead.

 

Hey, Willy-baby, I told Jim over there that I can write him some 70s style music, but I really have no interest at all in doing that, so you'll have to write that bit, alright?

[Andy 4,139]

6 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said:

Its weird really. Mangold asked williams if he could compose 70s music

He needed to ask?  I hope it meant he requested 70s style music instead of asking if Johnny was capable of it. 

[michael_grig 472]

On 31/8/2023 at 4:54 AM, crumbs said:

So the first cue in New York 1969 ("For Who... Whom?") is indeed pitch-shifted upwards compared to the film version. Look at that frequency line.

 

 

 

Good catch @LB Makes Stuff, you noticed this yesterday and the spectograms confirmed it.

 

My hunch is the OST version was pitch-shifted upwards so it crossfaded smoothly into Marion's Theme.

How do they even shift the pitch and still keep the good quality? I tried in Audacity and even Melodyne, the results were decent but nowhere close to being in a quality like the original!

[Manakin Skywalker 4,897]

4 hours ago, michael_grig said:

How do they even shift the pitch and still keep the good quality? I tried in Audacity and even Melodyne, the results were decent but nowhere close to being in a quality like the original!

 

By changing the speed. Pitch shifting alone will distort the quality, but if you adjust the pitch by changing the speed too, that distortion won't be there, just a visual anomaly in the spectrogram of the frequencies being lower or higher than the rest of the music.

[michael_grig 472]

20 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

 

By changing the speed. Pitch shifting alone will distort the quality, but if you adjust the pitch by changing the speed too, that distortion won't be there, just a visual anomaly in the spectrogram of the frequencies being lower or higher than the rest of the music.

I did that in Audacity too and the quality was not really good as well.

[Jay 37,370]

Well these guys are using Pro Tools, not Audacity 

[Damien F 1,742]

@Jay, are you planning on doing one of your cool tables that breakdowns the score chronologically in the film?

[Jay 37,370]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gLWlWGQDU2sjQtm83qAu9pgDTlEMSH7smeWw5zZwqHs

[Manakin Skywalker 4,897]

There's would be no difference in the default pitch/stretch tools between Audacity and Pro Tools, they work the exact same way. Unless they're using some type of plugin... but then again the quality sounds relatively the same to me in this case when using the standard "change speed" effect in Audacity. Being able to alter it from a high-res source would certainly help too, which is exactly what they did.

[Brando 1,864]

We could just send Ramiro Belgardt an email and see if he'll answer

[enderdrag64 624]

Is this the most chronological OST album Williams has ever made?

[Bellosh 3,419]

there's a really nice bit of music when Teddy and that co-pilot (i think having that dude essentially wake up in 213 BC is fucking hilarious) land the plane.  I wonder how it will sound with all the other Syracuse music happening.

 

2 minutes ago, enderdrag64 said:

Is this the most chronological OST album Williams has ever made?

 

well prologue has end credits music, Helena's theme is a concert suite and Voller Returns and To Morocco should be switched and yeah it's pretty chronological

[LB Makes Stuff 240]

I find it strange that “Whip and a Gunfight” (something along those lines) isn’t on that leaked list. Or am I missing something?

[CGCJ 394]

9 minutes ago, LB Makes Stuff said:

I find it strange that “Whip and a Gunfight” (something along those lines) isn’t on that leaked list. Or am I missing something?

The cue list sourced from GEMA only features the cues that were used in the final film, suggesting that 3M10 v1.1 Whip At a Gunfight didn't end up being used.

[LB Makes Stuff 240]

Ah, makes sense. Now I’m curious to hear it…

[CGCJ 394]

2 hours ago, Jay said:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gLWlWGQDU2sjQtm83qAu9pgDTlEMSH7smeWw5zZwqHs

You've left a collum next to the GEMA cue list in the 'Tracklist & GEMA' page, I presume this is for the publisher work codes, like in your Last Crusade spreadsheet, so here they are:

Spoiler

CEY151 American Spy

CEY170 American Spy V2 (Patch 2)

CEY171 American Spy V2

CEY173 American Spy (Patch 1)

CEY174 Bombs Away! V2

CEY175 Bombs Away!

CEY177 Indy Driver Part 1 V2

CEY178 Indy Driver Part 2

CEY179 Indy Driver

CEY180 It's a Fake V2

CEY181 It's a Fake V2 (Patch 1)

CEY182 Indy Rescues Baz V2

CEY183 Combat Train-ing V3

CEY184 Combat Train-ing V3 (Patch 1)

CEY185 Jump 1 V2

CEY186 Helena's Tutorial

CEY187 Voller's Interview

CEY188 Nazis

CEY190 I'm Not Selling This, Am I?

CEY191 The Archives

CEY192 Helena Runs!

CEY193 Pulse of the City

CEY198 Sallah to the Rescue

CEY199 Departures

CEY200 It Must Be Destroyed

CEY201 To Morocco Again

CEY202 Indy Recognizes Professor Schmidt

CEY203 Doing Helena's Bidding

CEY204 Rossini's Menu

CEY205 Rahim Arrives

CEY206 You Don't Need Me?

CEY207 Streets of Morocco

CEY208 Tuk Tuk Chase (Patch 1 Rev)

CEY209 Tuk Tuk Chase

CEY211 Tuk Tuk Chase (Patch 2)

CEY213 Tuk Tuk Chase (Patch 4)

CEY214 Airplane Mutiny

CEY215 To Athens

CEY216 To Athens (Patch 1)

CEY217 Sunken Ship

CEY218 Indy's Regret

CEY219 Eels!

CEY220 Centipedes

CEY221 Water Ballet (Insert)

CEY222 Water Ballet

CEY223 Polybius Cipher

CEY224 Helena's Tutorial

CEY228 Escaping the Boat

CEY229 Escaping the Boat (Patch 1)

CEY230 Melting Wax

CEY231 Melting Wax (Insert)

CEY232 Teddy is Kidnapped

CEY233 To the Airport (Patch 2)

CEY234 Helena in Action

CEY235 The Crescent

CEY236 The Crescent (Rev)

CEY237 Centipedes (Patch 1)

CEY239 Handcuffed

CEY240 Archimedes' Tomb

CEY241 Confrontation at the Tomb

CEY242 To the Airport

CEY246 To the Airport (Part 1 Patch)

CEY247 To the Airport Part 2

CEY248 Airport Nazis

CEY249 Airport Nazis (Patch 1)

CEY250 Airport Nazis (Patch 4)

CEY251 Airport Nazis (Patch 3)

CEY253 Airport Nazis (Patch 5)

CEY261 Through the Portal

CEY262 Ancient Syracuse Version 3

CEY264 Planes in Trouble Insert

CEY274 Centuries Join Hands (Insert)

CEY275 Centuries Join Hands

CEY276 Centuries Join Hands (Patch 1)

CEY277 For Who...Whom?

CEY278 Finale 1

CEY279 Finale (Patch 1)

CEY284 Raider's March - JR Edit

CEY293 Helena's Theme Rev 2

CEY294 Helena's Theme Rev

CEY295 End Credits Part 3

Sorry if that's not what that collum is for, but I'm sure at-least someone will appreciate this. (It might help in identifying Ross' Pulse of the City as the licensed source music would also have publisher work codes and could be used to figure out the gaps in that section of the film?)

[Edmilson 7,466]

18 hours ago, Jay said:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gLWlWGQDU2sjQtm83qAu9pgDTlEMSH7smeWw5zZwqHs

Some insights from the spreadsheet:

• There's 18 minutes 17 seconds of music in the prologue, but the OST only covers 4:42 of that segment. The first two cues (almost 4 minutes of music) are completely unreleased, and the remaining cues were all edited. "Indy Driver" is 3 minutes long in the movie but the OST only includes 1:30, "It's a Fake" is almost 4 minutes long but we can only hear 0:27 (!) and the next three cues are over 2 minutes but are edited down to seconds. Geez...
• The OST track "Tuk Tuk in Tangiers" only covers the first part of the chase, there's 4:18 of the second cue from the same action scene that went unreleased. In other words: the majority of the music for an important action scene is nowhere to be found on the OST.
• For the climax, "To The Airport Part 2" (2:30 minutes) and "Through the Portal" (3:46 minutes) were completely dropped from the album. "Ancient Syracuse" and "Centuries Join Hands" are much longer in the movie, with the OST containing approx. just half of those cues.
• On the other hand, "Archimedes' Tomb" is 24 seconds shorter on the movie, which means that probably the OST has material that were ultimately dropped from the final cut.

In terms of unreleased material and presentation of the score as actually heard in the movie, this might actually be one of the worst recent JW OSTs, huh?

[John F 100]

Since day one I’ve said this is one of the worst JW soundtracks ever. So much music needs a release. In this day and age of longer soundtrack releases the release is a disservice to the fans of IJ and JW, especially it possibly being his last score. 

[Bellosh 3,419]

there's really not much missing that would make this soundtrack "better" imo.

 

i'm not convinced the parade chase cue (or any other missing music/cue) 'saves' this album for anyone who already doesn't like it.  it's nothing like all the missing cues that the Concord set gave us.

 

and i'm not a fan of the all re-hashed cues....(like parts of the warehouse scene with them looking for the alien corpse is played right before they go through the time portal....no thanks)

 

the only thing I'm truly looking forward to is the bit of music that plays as Archimedes searches the destroyed plane.  that will be a lovely addition to all the Syracuse music.

 

the score itself in the film doesn't feel as cohesive as the soundtrack, so I actually prefer the soundtrack in this case.

 

of course i still want all the missing music, but there's nothing AMAZING missing that isn't already on the OST

[LB Makes Stuff 240]

I think the score needed more cowbell to be honest…

[Edmilson 7,466]

Helena's Theme for Cowbell and Orchestra

[Holko 9,529]

This is still the best Indy OST with the best crafted best flowing program, nevermind what's missing.

[Bellosh 3,419]

is there anything that people are desperately wanting to hear that was left off?

 

genuinely curious --- nothing seems to even rival what KOTCS left off.

 

i say that as someone who still loves every drop of music from DoD.

[Holko 9,529]

I skipped into the movie (will properly watch it again soon) and I definitely heard a ton of shit I'd really like.

[Bellosh 3,419]

i kinda compare a lot of the missing airport and syracuse music to a bunch of mini jungle chase edits.

 

i def want the complete versions of all that music, as it's the best in the score imo.  but the ost has enough to satisfy me.

 

i really don't care for the archive scene/pre-parade chase music, aka Spyders, it will just feel weird hearing a Minority Report cue in an Indy score.

[Jay 37,370]

On 03/09/2023 at 7:45 PM, CGCJ said:

You've left a collum next to the GEMA cue list in the 'Tracklist & GEMA' page, I presume this is for the publisher work codes, like in your Last Crusade spreadsheet, so here they are:

 

 

Thanks for that!  Saved me having to look them all up one at a time.  Added to the doc!

[LB Makes Stuff 240]

 

36 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

is there anything that people are desperately wanting to hear that was left off?

I’d like to hear the nods to other JW scores that we hear throughout. (War of the Worlds, Close Encounters, Minority Report, etc.)

[Bellosh 3,419]

to each their own!

 

you know what it is for me? as a fan of the film....i wish JW didn't do that!

 

I feel like, personally, it lowers the quality of the film to re-hash so many bits. which feels harsh to type....but the irony is the rest of JW's music in the film is so good that it raises the level of the film. 

 

Maybe the On the Tank reference is fine, cause one could argue that is something like Indy's version of tie fighter music (bad example --- but you get it)

 

I think the film could have 'felt' stronger to me without dipping into so many older cues.  I can't and won't blame JW, due to his age obviously.  It's just a small nitpick I have with the film.

[Indy 17]

57 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

is there anything that people are desperately wanting to hear that was left off?

 

genuinely curious --- nothing seems to even rival what KOTCS left off.

 

i say that as someone who still loves every drop of music from DoD.

 

Yes, the Tuk Tuk chase. I especially love the brief part with Raiders' March's B-theme towards the end.

[Brónach 1,302]

11 hours ago, Holko said:

This is still the best Indy OST with the best crafted best flowing program, nevermind what's missing.

 

better than Raiders?

 

i'm sure if the Raiders OST was brought down from 41 min to 30 min it rules

[Holko 9,529]

43 minutes ago, Brónach said:

better than Raiders?

 

I don't even know what's on there, but editing down Desert Chase so shittily would put it around the bottom anyway. Oh, I remember it puts a jolly light early 2nd act travelling cue in front of the big dark biblical climax, that flows great. LiStEnInG eXpErIeNcE

 

43 minutes ago, Brónach said:

i'm sure if the Raiders OST was brought down from 41 min to 30 min it rules

Yeah wtf, why are albums so long, 40 whole minutes? Do they expect us to have an attention span longer than a 2008 youtube video or something?

[Bellosh 3,419]

You're German Hungarian, Holko.  Don't try to be funny.

[Cameron1138 33]

2 hours ago, Bellosh said:

is there anything that people are desperately wanting to hear that was left off?

 

genuinely curious --- nothing seems to even rival what KOTCS left off.

 

i say that as someone who still loves every drop of music from DoD.

Definitely. The full opening with the reworked Belly of the Steel Beast and On the Tank sections as well as some great original action music, Pulse of the City, the full tuk tuk chase, Through the Portal and the full Battle of Syracuse (to be honest I actually liked the reuse of the warehouse track from KotCS, I always really loved that piece and this moment felt like a more appropriate use for its epic sound), and any more of Helena's theme, the Nazi theme, or the Archimedes theme that I can get my hands on because I really love the former two themes and the latter theme felt too underrepresented on the album.

 

And aside from any specific tracks, for the sake of my OCD I just really need the album to get to at least a comparable length and level of completeness to the official expanded releases we have of the original trilogy scores, even if we don't get the complete recording sessions like we did for KotCS. ToD and TLC may not be complete but they at least have sufficient representation of all the major plot beats and action scenes in the films, and with enough quieter/filler music to give the bigger moments some breather room.

[Brando 1,864]

I loved ALL of the throwbacks, so yes I want them all!

[Brónach 1,302]

56 minutes ago, Holko said:

I don't even know what's on there, but editing down Desert Chase so shittily would put it around the bottom anyway. Oh, I remember it puts a jolly light early 2nd act travelling cue in front of the big dark biblical climax, that flows great. LiStEnInG eXpErIeNcE

 

Yeah wtf, why are albums so long, 40 whole minutes? Do they expect us to have an attention span longer than a 2008 youtube video or something?

 

perhaps Map Room and Basket Game can be switched around /s

 

 

too chronological? in that case we can lose Map Room, we have Miracle of the Ark anyway /j

 

then again, JW plays mostly just Raiders March in concert, so it's clearly made for that, or you can listen to the end credits of the movie in the cinema in 1981 and that way you can follow the artist's intentions.

[Holko 9,529]

23 minutes ago, Brónach said:

or you can listen to the end credits of the movie in the cinema in 198

Yes, that awful hacked up credits edit is clearly what he had in mind when he wrote it.

[Brónach 1,302]

i loathe when they do that in end credits

 

it's not like they're being clever like the door edit in barry's abduction

[Bellosh 3,419]

which one of you is being sarcastic and who is being serious....i can't tell

 

i'm Indy:

 

[Holko 9,529]

8 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

which one of you is being sarcastic and who is being serious....i can't tell

We're triple agents, sarcastically sarcastic about being sarcastic

[Bellosh 3,419]

[Brónach 1,302]

if only KOTCS was as good as when Harrison says "What is this thing??", or its colourful photography

[Will 2,215]

Great to hear these snippets of unreleased music! Impressed by the sound quality.

[Bellosh 3,419]

MM (Manakin Matessino) has been wonderful to us.

[Will 2,215]

On 30/08/2023 at 5:32 PM, Jay said:

I really wanted Fabelmans to have that great "Escape to Nowhere" cue, and was hoping Indy 5 would have more music from the Prologue and NYC sections.  But as soon as I saw Disney not bother with FYCs for their other summer-release movies (BFG's never going on the website and Solo not getting one at all), I had zero hopes that Indy 5 would even get one.

 

Do we know if the "Escape to Nowhere" cue (which I admittedly don't remember from the film) was JW, or is it still just a guess?

[Jay 37,370]

It's absolutely a John Williams original, no doubt about it

[Will 2,215]

Wow! Will have to listen for it next time I watch the film.