MISSION IMPOSSIBLE: FALLOUT (2018) - Film & Score

[Jurassic Shark 12,076]

That's why he left... he was replaced by @Bilbo's 'cloth.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

1 hour ago, crocodile said:

If only! No one gives away free CD's. Not very often anyway.

 

Karol

They’re all digital copies nowadays. 

[crocodile 8,012]

Just now, Koray Savas said:

They’re all digital copies nowadays. 

That's what I meant.

 

Karol

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

CD albums @Jurassic Shark, CD albums.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,344]

I only do digital if the choice is between paying 50$ for Mephisto Waltz on CD or 10$ on iTunes. 

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

I’m amazed at how flaccid this music sounds. It’s anemic by the standards of modern film music. There’s no satisfying bite or punch. The massive sound is rather mellow. No attack. Unsatisfying. 

 

2/10. At least get a real modern composer if you want a real modern score. 

 

The Savas brothers rates this higher than Powell’s Star Wars?!? It’s a good thing I’m not a visitor of their site. 

 

 

 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Some people just like farty horns

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Kramer, or whatever the hell his name is, the guy who only writes orchestral spy scores had some of the most satisfying and punchy soundscapes in orchestral history in the last film.

 

Budget Zimmer over here can’t get it up. Lesson learned: if you want Zimmer, hire Zimmer. 

On 7/30/2018 at 4:46 AM, Nick Parker said:

 

His brother.

 

Hopefully he doesn’t also listen to music on laptop speakers.

[Jay 37,364]

From the FSM thread

 

Quote

La-La Land Records Bonus Tracks:

1. Plutonium Trade (2:54)
2. As Ugly As They Come (2:26)
3. Framing Ethan (2:01)
4. Je Suis Désolé (1:06)
5. Trapped (3:26)
6. This Mission Is Terminated (2:10)

~ 15 minutes of music.

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,076]

Strange that the OST was so long when they anyway were going to release a 2 CD expansion.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,344]

If Varese released this in the 90's, they'd be struggling to find even 29 minutes worth of decent music!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Just now, kaseykockroach said:

If Varese released this in the 90's, they'd be struggling to find even 29 minutes worth!

 

They knew what they were doing back then.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,344]

1 minute ago, Cherry Pie That'll Kill Ya said:

 

They knew what they were doing back then.

29 is such an ugly number though. When I have a score with 29 tracks (Homeward Bound, Nightmare Before Christmas, John Barry's King Kong), I combine a track or two, just because I hate the number 29. 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

1 minute ago, kaseykockroach said:

29 is such an ugly number though. When I have a score with 29 tracks (Homeward Bound, Nightmare Before Christmas, John Barry's King Kong), I combine a track or two, just because I hate the number 29. 

 

 

[Koray Savas 2,251]

12 hours ago, Blumenkohl said:

The Savas brothers rates this higher than Powell’s Star Wars?!? It’s a good thing I’m not a visitor of their site. 

One Savas has. I’ve made no mention of my opinion of the score. 

[Drew 590]

6 hours ago, kaseykockroach said:

29 is such an ugly number though. When I have a score with 29 tracks (Homeward Bound, Nightmare Before Christmas, John Barry's King Kong), I combine a track or two, just because I hate the number 29. 

 

Then put a one-minute track of silence at the end of every four albums and call it "Leap Track".

[Richard Penna 3,689]

9 hours ago, Koray Savas said:

One Savas has. I’ve made no mention of my opinion of the score. 

 

What is your opinion then?

[Jurassic Shark 12,076]

And what does your extended family think about the score?

[Drew 590]

The past two weeks on Twitter, paraphrased:

Some people: "The Fallout score is trash." - OK

Balfe: "You don't like aspects of the Fallout score because your ears are full of wax and you can't hear properly." - OK

Me: "The score sounds mixed oddly like samples and it detracts enjoyment. Regardless of my thoughts on the score, it would sound better if the orchestra was mixed and recorded more organically." - EVERYONE LOSES THEIR MINDS

[Koray Savas 2,251]

14 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

What is your opinion then?

I don’t have one yet. 

[deleted account 108]

9 hours ago, Drew said:

The past two weeks on Twitter, paraphrased:

Some people: "The Fallout score is trash." - OK

Balfe: "You don't like aspects of the Fallout score because your ears are full of wax and you can't hear properly." - OK

Me: "The score sounds mixed oddly like samples and it detracts enjoyment. Regardless of my thoughts on the score, it would sound better if the orchestra was mixed and recorded more organically." - EVERYONE LOSES THEIR MINDS

I, for one, appreciate your efforts to call out the current wave of composers, such as RCP and their drones, on their mediocrity, whether it be in composition, orchestration, or mixing...it's a thankless job, but I'm glad you're here to do it....  ;-)

 

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Yeah, it's great that someone's out there to bravely shit on people's work - medicore or not - from behind the veil of Twitter.  That really helps make the world a better place. 

[Mr. Who 919]

I don’t get why so many people here have to really hate scores from composers they don’t like. It’s a weird behaviour. Trashing people’s work that they’ve been working on for 9 months is just disgusting. Would Soundtrack memes really say this to Lorne’s face?

[Kasey Kockroach 2,344]

No, because that'd require having to look at Lorne's ugly mug! 

[crocodile 8,012]

To be honest, the score worked quite well in the film. It's not necessarily a Mission: Impossible film and score that I wanted but it fits the Nolanesque tone of the film.

 

Karol

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Angela Bassett’s character could’ve been describing the change in direction for the music when she said “Why use a scalpel when you can use a hammer?” (Or whatever the line was)

[crocodile 8,012]

Yeah, but you could describe the entire film as such. Gone is the wit and light touch. It was well made but tiresome to watch.

 

Karol

[Disco Stu 15,495]

12 minutes ago, crocodile said:

Yeah, but you could describe the entire film as such. Gone is the wit and light touch. It was well made but tiresome to watch.

 

Karol

 

Agreed.  Very well executed, the action sequences truly are something to behold, but it’s not my ideal of what an M:I movie should be, personally.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

It felt kind of like watered down Nolan

[crocodile 8,012]

I loved the previous two (and a half if you include the middle segment of the third) because they were fun and lighthearted heist films. The new one is more pure action-oriented. It is very well done, as you say, but not as interesting. People say they develop Ethan Hunt's character a little bit but the experience tells us these films get worse as soon as you go there. He's just... Tom Cruise. What more is there to say? And in this type of a genre talking about friendships and relationships almost comes off as disingenuous and phony. I mean, who cares?

 

To be honest, I have nothing against this film. It's solid and reliable filmmaking. What it sets out to do, it does well. But it's not my Mission: Impossible. And it goes on forever!

 

Karol

[Will 2,215]

6 hours ago, Mr. Who said:

I don’t get why so many people here have to really hate scores from composers they don’t like. It’s a weird behaviour. Trashing people’s work that they’ve been working on for 9 months is just disgusting. Would Soundtrack memes really say this to Lorne’s face?

 

But that's the thing - I don't think he did originally intend to bring Balfe himself into the conversation (although you could argue that he should have accepted that possibility). Here's the original tweet once again:

 

 

It was only after this initial post that @YellowOne (whoever that is) tagged Balfe and asked him what he thought. YellowOne then made a rather inappropriate post that essentially put words in SoundtrackMemes' (Drew's) mouth, and suggested that Drew was being really passive-aggressive with his poll. Drew clarified his actual views and respectfully asked about why, precisely, the score sounds so electronic: Was it some type of standard RCP mixing? No, Balfe replied.

 

Drew then brought in part of a Jon Broxton review of a Junkie XL score, which Balfe dismissed as "not worth a valid conversation" (the review was indeed harsh, but I think it made reasonable points in the quoted segment). Then the discussion spiraled into a debate about the progression of film scoring over the years (a few other posters, including David Arnold - he was defending Balfe - had joined in by that point). I thought this discussion was likewise challenging but pretty respectful. 

 

In sum, while I personally enjoy Balfe's score and respect his work here, I don't think I'd say Drew crossed any lines in this tweet or the following exchange -- particularly given that the account description is already slightly tongue-in-cheek ("Funny and edgy memes ... in the film music community"). 

[Drew 590]

I would say that Balfe was the initial aggressor in the conversation. His first reply showed that he misread the poll question (what the listeners heard even though we all knew it was a real orchestra). He then dodged my points by claiming that my headphones were not sufficient and that some listeners had wax in our ears. You guys are misinterpreting me as being nasty, but he evidently kept not understanding my questions, and thus I kept having to rephrase them repeatedly...

 

 

 

 

Also, 36.4 people is not the same as 36.4 percent... 😛

 

Then, I tested the waters with another score that surely wouldn't still make people go crazy (and legitimately sounds like it is performed on dated samples)...

 

And look who brought Balfe back for another round:

 

 

I'm just trying to have a conversation about the way these scores are mixed and everyone is losing their minds.

 

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,076]

@Will, thanks for summarizing for us who don't care catching up on the drama.

 

@Drew, you cannot have a decimal number of people voting yes. It's either 36 or 37.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

On 8/4/2018 at 4:44 PM, Drew said:

I would say that Balfe was the initial aggressor in the conversation. His first reply showed that he misread the poll question (what the listeners heard even though we all knew it was a real orchestra). He then dodged my points by claiming that my headphones were not sufficient and that some listeners had wax in our ears. You guys are misinterpreting me as being nasty, but he evidently kept not understanding my questions, and thus I kept having to rephrase them repeatedly...

 

Also, 36.4 people is not the same as 36.4 percent... 😛

 

Then, I tested the waters with another score that surely wouldn't still make people go crazy (and legitimately sounds like it is performed on dated samples)...

 

And look who brought Balfe back for another round:

 

I'm just trying to have a conversation about the way these scores are mixed and everyone is losing their minds.

 

What points are you making? You’re not talking about recording or mixing techniques. You’re hosting a poll on Twitter, of all places. Go to the VI Control forums and talk to the gear heads there. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,076]

In the poll he clearly asks about how people think the final product sounds, which of course is determined by the recording, mixing, postprocessing, and other factors.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

It’s a yes or no question. How or why is not asked. If that’s what you want to know, that’s fine, but like I said no conversation is being had. Throwing out a statistic of your poll doesn’t really mean anything either. Ask Balfe what techniques or gear he used instead. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,076]

Oh, there seemed to be quite a lengthy conversation where he tried to clarify what he meant by the yes/no question, although I think the poll question is perfectly understandable without any clarification.

[Drew 590]

Balfe explained the techniques. The sections of the orchestra were recorded separately, sometimes in different studios, and then mixed together into a final product. Doing so much editing around and having sections come from different sources emulates the kind of techniques used to assemble a sampled orchestra.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Cool, so what’s the issue?

[Drew 590]

Just now, Koray Savas said:

Cool, so what’s the issue?

 

There is no reason that it should sound sampled when there was a huge orchestra. Yet, it does to many people. It seems like a waste of time, money, and effort.

[Mr. Who 919]

But if the composer wants the orchestra to sound like that it’s not an issue.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

Whoever tagged Balfe is an asshole but Balfe himself comes across as a bit indignant at the fact that somebody doesn't like his score (yes, that type of score is what Balfe was asked to do but that doesn't make the score or general approach above criticism)

[Will 2,215]

1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

@Drew, you cannot have a decimal number of people voting yes. It's either 36 or 37.

 

Hehe yeah I was a little perplexed by that too. It appears that Twitter must round to the nearest percent, so while taking 40% of 91 total voters (presumably what Drew did!) gets you 36.4 voters the actual percent must not have been exactly 40%, obviously throwing off the final number. 

[Richard Penna 3,689]

59 minutes ago, Mr. Who said:

But if the composer wants the orchestra to sound like that it’s not an issue.

 

What? If it sounds rubbish, even after following the composer's wishes, then it's definitely still an 'issue'.

 

Of course, it may be a case of Balfe following director's orders, in which case he's not entirely responsible for how the score sounds. But the scope of the score release suggests to me that he probably doesn't have a problem with the direction he took, therefore our right to criticise it is not diminished.

 

Another way to put that: McQuarrie wanted the RCP sound, Balfe delivered. Many people think it sounds rubbish, and a few people here won't accept that fact, and are using the 'it serves the film' thing to excuse Balfe for not writing a particularly great score.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

5 hours ago, Drew said:

 

There is no reason that it should sound sampled when there was a huge orchestra. Yet, it does to many people. It seems like a waste of time, money, and effort.

Is it your time, money, or effort? No? Then who cares? Don’t see the movie. And if your poll is any sort of reliable measure (which it isn’t) then a minority of people think it sounds that way. Internet’s full of a bunch of entitled folks, it’s grating. This is one of the best reviewed action films in years, so prepare for more Lorne Balfe blockbusters and more scores sounding this way. 

[Locrius 97]

3 hours ago, Koray Savas said:

Is it your time, money, or effort? No? Then who cares? Don’t see the movie.

 

I love the irony of a film music reviewer/writer—who has a reviews website because obviously he thinks his and his brother's opinions are worth people "caring" about—saying "who cares?" when it comes to someone else's opinion. I see absolutely nothing wrong with @Drew wondering out loud if other people on Twitter also felt like the score sounds like samples; just like I also see nothing wrong with him thinking of it as a "waste" of time, money etc. when a full orchestra is hired to perform a score and it winds up sounding (from his perspective at least) like samples.

 

3 hours ago, Koray Savas said:

Internet’s full of a bunch of entitled folks, it’s grating. 

 

Entitled to what? They're sharing their opinions on social media. What exactly are you saying they're entitled to, that they shouldn't be?

 

3 hours ago, Koray Savas said:

so prepare for more Lorne Balfe blockbusters and more scores sounding this way.

 

...Okay? And? And people will just keep on criticizing them as they see fit. As they have every right to. Not sure what point you're trying to make. You really have no business reviewing film music, if you get so heated at the notion that people have differing opinions. Your whole comment reeks of condescension.

[Jurassic Shark 12,076]

4 hours ago, Koray Savas said:

Is it your time, money, or effort? No? Then who cares?

 

Maybe the listeners that were disappointed because they were expecting something better-sounding from 100 strings and 40 brass players?

[publicist 4,643]

Which begs the question why they again and again turn to empty action franchises for their fix instead of listening to some real music.

[Jurassic Shark 12,076]

True, but once in a while "empty action franchises" yield good scores, as was the case with Rogue Nation. Then it's not surprising that people had high hopes for the score to the follow-up.

[deleted account 108]

As a relative outsider (and less frequent poster) looking in, there is something very interesting going in this thread.  Koray really seems to be personally, emotionally involved in what people say, and how people feel, about the director McQuarrie and composer Balfe, as much, or even more than, the movie itself.  It seems like anyone who makes a negative comment about the film or its score gets treated as if they've personally insulted not only the director and composer, but also Koray himself, to a degree.  I honestly, and with the utmost respect, wonder why that is....

 

I think it's funny that Dan Goldwasser (Scoringsessions.com) got all annoyed when Drew asked about the "Pirates" score on Twitter, too. 

 

A funny commonality between the two (as many here may know) is that Koray's brother runs FILM.MUSIC.MEDIA and Dan runs SCORING SESSIONS.  Both of these websites rely on positive personal relationships with composers, in the latter case, to get permission to come photograph recording sessions, and in the prior case, to get inside access to composers for their in-depth video interviews.

 

Not that anyone asked, but personally, I think the current trend in film music tends to favor scores that sound more like recordings/sound design and less like live orchestral performances.  I liken it to the trend in the 90's when MTV-style quick-cutting was all the rage in filmmaking, or when digital color-grading came in and made everything look super saturated (like Oh Brother Where Art Though or Ultraviolet) or when Bullet-time was everywhere.  I think Drew asked a relevant question when he asked about samples vs. live.  Does anyone here really think that RCP scores sound the same as JW scores?  Honestly, I think we all agree RCP has a sound that is not really anything like JW's.

 

There are people on this board who dismiss the current sound (myself included, if I'm honest), and there are people who like it.  The people who seem to like it, such as Mr. Who, seem to take any criticism of it as a pointless exercise in "bashing" music they like.   Some even seem to feel like certain people here take JW too seriously, which strikes me as funny considering this IS a John Williams fan site.

 

One thing that has emerged seems to be that the community here could be sorted into two very general camps - 1 camp likes to listen to film music primarily for it's musical value and the other camp likes to listen to film music primarily because of its association with a film.  Camp 1 has been critical of the score to Fallout, while camp 2 has argued that camp 1 is disregarding what it's association to the film adds to it.  For what it's worth, I fall into camp 1, again, not that anybody asked.

 

thoughts?