Popular Post Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted August 2, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted August 2, 2017 Whether it's new Star Wars, new John Williams, new Twin Peaks, Nolan and Zimmer, Giacchino, superhero movies, Game of Thrones.... Don't you feel like people are generally far more negative than they used to be about pretty much everything? You don't see or hear much effusive praise, that's for sure, unless it's effusive praise for "how things used to be." Don't you think this is an odd phenomenon? Do you reckon it is actually a question of decreasing quality or overexposure? I could buy that for certain things. But is it also a cultural change, a shift towards being more cynical and unimpressed in general? Is it an internet thing, whereby the ability to soapbox facelessly brings out the armchair critic and contrarian in all of us? Is it possible to enjoy things in 2017, and if so, is it possible to express that enjoyment without being branded a fanboy? After all, while many will decry "haters," negative sentiments can nevertheless be painted as insightful criticism. What can positive sentiments be defended as but naivete? It is now much easier, and possibly more stylish, to tear down a defense than it is to brush off offense. I thought this was a more interesting way to broach this subject than some of the "pleas for positivity" we've seen of late. Arpy, Cerebral Cortex, Holko and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will 2,215 Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Great idea for a thread. This is something I've been pondering as well. I'm probably one of the more positive members here (see my exclamation point-filled reactions to new Williams news), and sometimes I wonder whether I'm naive or whether other people are too cynical. Cerebral Cortex and Johnnyecks 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post karelm 2,913 Posted August 2, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted August 2, 2017 I think there is a lot of positivity here. We are just more sensitive to the negativity so it is more noticeable. Take the Dunkirk thread for example. I would guess it is about 75% positive so that is quite good. I guess I don't fully agree with your premise. I think overall this site is quite tolerant of a wide range of opinions and various fanboydom even when it is against our personal taste. You do have some cynics here though but that is not unusual. I personally miss some members who were more involved and always thoughtful and challenging but outgrew this place but I don't think that's what you mean. Bilbo, Dixon Hill, Loert and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,333 Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 A few weeks ago I bought Wild Tales on Blu-ray and today I bought Slow West so it's not that I hate everything! But it's true that in the last few years I have been let down by several directors that I love. Dixon Hill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted August 2, 2017 Author Share Posted August 2, 2017 Oh to be clear, I'm not talking about JWFan in any specific way, nor do I agree with anyone who thinks we're a negative community in any sense - this is more of a broad thing that applies all over, but I do sometimes feel it seeps in here. Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Some negativity is better than incessantly liking everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 43 minutes ago, TheGreyPilgrim said: Whether it's new Star Wars, new John Williams, new Twin Peaks, Nolan and Zimmer, Giacchino, superhero movies, Game of Thrones.... Don't you feel like people are generally far more negative than they used to be about pretty much everything? People? What people? All the people from all over the world? I think there's a qualifier missing. Not to put too fine a point on it, I think it's just (or mostly) Americans. And the topics you mention as examples are, incidentally, all American too: JW, Game of Thrones, Twin Peaks, etc. It's mind-boggling and rather tragic how, in the past few decades, America is going downhill in a handbasket. Maybe the 20 trillion national debt has something to do with it, weighing on everybody's mind? Consciously or unconsciously, many people (Americans!) sense it and are reacting to it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mstrox 6,651 Posted August 2, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted August 2, 2017 Well, there are a few things at play here, in my opinion. 1) People are generally more vocal about things that they dislike than things they like. On the flipside, it's often easier to talk about things you dislike than things you like. For those reasons, the people who dislike things are usually the loudest voices in the room. 2) Culture has, over time, become less earnest and more sarcastic. Generationally, that sarcasm has become watered down into a more humorless cynicism. 3) Our outreach ability has grown exponentially in the past 20 years. Instead of using that blessing to expand our horizons and worldview, we've largely made our worlds smaller by congregating in large groups of people who share our own values and opinions. In those echo chambers, what once was a maybe slightly disappointed "It wasn't for me" is followed up with a dozen more, until it becomes an angry "IT WASN'T FOR US!" In my opinion, that makes us hate things instead of just disliking things. crumbs, Holko, Will and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted August 2, 2017 Author Share Posted August 2, 2017 26 minutes ago, Sally Spectra said: Some negativity is better than incessantly liking everything. I don't necessarily disagree. 4 minutes ago, Josh500 said: People? What people? All the people from all over the world? I think there's a qualifier missing. Not to put too fine a point on it, I think it's just (or mostly) Americans. And the topics you mention as examples are, incidentally, all American too: JW, Game of Thrones, Twin Peaks, etc. It's mind-boggling and rather tragic how, in the past few decades, America is going downhill in a handbasket. Maybe the 20 trillion national debt has something to do with it, weighing on everybody's mind? Consciously or unconsciously, many people (Americans!) sense it and are reacting to it... You annoy me. 2 minutes ago, mstrox said: Well, there are a few things at play here, in my opinion. 1) People are generally more vocal about things that they dislike than things they like. On the flipside, it's often easier to talk about things you dislike than things you like. For those reasons, the people who dislike things are usually the loudest voices in the room. 2) Culture has, over time, become less earnest and more sarcastic. Generationally, that sarcasm has become watered down into a more humorless cynicism. 3) Our outreach ability has grown exponentially in the past 20 years. Instead of using that blessing to expand our horizons and worldview, we've largely made our worlds smaller by congregating in large groups of people who share our own values and opinions. In those echo chambers, what once was a maybe slightly disappointed "It wasn't for me" is followed up with a dozen more, until it becomes an angry "IT WASN'T FOR US!" In my opinion, that makes us hate things instead of just disliking things. Agree with all this. 42 minutes ago, Will said: Great idea for a thread. This is something I've been pondering as well. I'm probably one of the more positive members here (see my exclamation point-filled reactions to new Williams news), and sometimes I wonder whether I'm naive or whether other people are too cynical. Whatever else, someone your age shouldn't have to wonder if you're being too enthusiastic. That's unfortunate. Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Or perhaps we've wisened up to the complacency of the Hollywood content creators and recognise the poor quality of their output. The Brett Ratners of the world hate this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post #SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted August 2, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted August 2, 2017 Mid-life crises. Everything sucks now. Things were far better in the olden days. I hate this thread too! mstrox, Johnnyecks and crumbs 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, Stefancos said: I hate this thread too! Johnnyecks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 13 minutes ago, Josh500 said: People? What people? All the people from all over the world? I think there's a qualifier missing. Not to put too fine a point on it, I think it's just (or mostly) Americans. And the topics you mention as examples are, incidentally, all American too: JW, Game of Thrones, Twin Peaks, etc. It's mind-boggling and rather tragic how, in the past few decades, America is going downhill in a handbasket. Maybe the 20 trillion national debt has something to do with it, weighing on everybody's mind? Consciously or unconsciously, many people (Americans!) sense it and are reacting to it... Yes! Donald will set things right! Not Mr. Big and Koray Savas 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 1 minute ago, mstrox said: 2) Culture has, over time, become less earnest and more sarcastic. Generationally, that sarcasm has become watered down into a more humorless cynicism. I don't think that's true. One thing that is true for sure is that many, MANY people voicing their opinions on whatever have understood, often instinctively, that acting personally offended is a bargain for more social cachet in our culture. Think about pressure groups, heck, think about all those LGBT groups protesting 'Basic Instinct' without having seen it: stuff like that got progressively worse. So taking into account that this perceived 'negativity' is more often reactive than active - often labeling stuff as cynicism that is anything but - i think wry or belligerent humour has a harder stand than ever. Other than that i think we just spend all too much time on the internet. It's here were the most misconceptions occur, mainly due to a lack of personal contact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, BloodBoal said: Yes! Donald will set things right! Its true that the Americans did an incredible amount of whinging during their election campaign and quite a few months after that. On social media...it was relentless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Over exposure, definitely. We're used to, in this digital age, getting what we want and having more influence in making it a reality that our standards are always set perilously and insatiably high. I think there's a happy medium somewhere, in the things we often hold up as 'guilty pleasures' the kinds of entertainment that you consume for gratification, and that's often ignored, unfortunately. You're either in the clique or out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mrbellamy 6,287 Posted August 2, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted August 2, 2017 1 hour ago, Alexcremers said: But it's true that in the last few years I have been let down by several directors that I love. I feel like this is one aspect of it that I've found, that some of the stuff that seems to inspire the most outspoken frustration or criticism are not for the truly crappy things (can't remember the last time I saw somebody passionately railing against Uwe Boll or even Michael Bay?) but for the things that are almost good. Giacchino is a good example of that here. I don't think any of the biggest critics of him think that he's untalented, far from it. Instead it often seems to come from this constant nagging "He could be better, why isn't he better??" Others include Spielberg, Ridley Scott, Nolan, Williams. It's probably easier to just casually dismiss something like a Transformers sequel when you sort of automatically accept that it never really had a shot of being good. It's not like you have to wrestle those opinions out of your head. Most people here aren't gonna give something like that the time of day, anyway. But then try and ignore a Michael Giacchino superhero score or Christopher Nolan WWII movie or Ridley Scott Alien or David Lynch Twin Peaks or George Lucas Star Wars or Steven Spielberg Indiana Jones. Anything that could be really good becomes a target and people probably take to a forum more readily in those instances because it's like they need to reconcile the much more frustrating dichotomy between the prospect (if not total promise) of something being awesome and that same thing not actually being awesome. It's especially potent if the hype made you concoct some version that you'd now still rather think about after seeing the real thing, which you had hoped would fulfill/replace those vague fantasies of a new favorite which now aren't going away. Those thoughts can be hard to organize in your head so a forum makes a good excuse to put it down in front of you, making comparisons to what you expected vs what you got, what could have been changed or improved. Plus you can get feedback and hopefully positive reinforcement as opposed to just keeping a diary or something. Holko, Not Mr. Big, Will and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BloodBoal 7,538 Posted August 2, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted August 2, 2017 Arpy, Will, Loert and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,287 Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Yep, good points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,482 Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 I still enjoy many things, I'm just more critic, as I get old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted August 2, 2017 Author Share Posted August 2, 2017 Yes, getting old. For some time, I was prepared to chalk all this up to old fart syndrome, but it applies equally to oldsters and youngsters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will 2,215 Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Could it be connected to my generation's "meme culture," which basically entails criticizing everything imaginable (albeit for comedic purposes)? Actually, this kind of ties into a major problem I have with the modern world, namely, the evident inability of many to make a joke that doesn't criticize something/put someone down, a joke that isn't just a negative comment in disguise (even if it's not intended to be hurtful). Luckily many JWFans do have that ability, but at school it's often a rare breed (although thankfully I am rarely if ever the target of this not-very-funny "humor"). But that's a different discussion! Loert and Cerebral Cortex 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post #SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted August 2, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted August 2, 2017 It's not just your generation. the internet has a hell of a lot to do with it. It taught people that can say what they like with a very limited chance of any real accountability. crumbs, mstrox, Will and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 6 minutes ago, Stefancos said: It's not just your generation. the internet has a hell of a lot to do with it. It taught people that can say what they like with a very limited chance of any real accountability. And it feels bloody good too. In my professional life, so often I have to act all serious and pretend to be friendly with all these industry morons, it makes me feel sick. Maybe even a little more dead on the inside. But being on the internet allows me to wipe that professional goodie-two-shoes facade away and unleash my true self - all the characters I play in my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 People are getting older and they like what they used to get. The older they are the more they criticize negatively without any proper reason or because something is different. Of course this is a bit generalized, but look for example at the cinemas, where loads of young people are satisfied by Transformers 9590 and Fast and Furious 3958308593. Middle aged people tend to be more demanding, very old people however tend to grumble when they aren't completely satisfied. This might be a cliché but there are recognizablel tendencies. The more you know the better you can rate it and the more often you discover some real shit. Now, as everybody is aging and everybody spends the time with people of the same age, this simply leads to the impression that "everything" is more hated by "everyone" than earlier. That's not all, but it's at least an important effect that influences a neutral evaluation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted August 2, 2017 Author Share Posted August 2, 2017 Are people satisfied by the latest Transformers or Fast and Furious crap? I don't actually know, do these films perform well? Not Mr. Big 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Quintus 5,399 Posted August 2, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted August 2, 2017 It seems the irony of the thread is lost on those dishing out copious amounts of LIKES like they're going out of fashion and planting them on any mildly agreeable post that comes level with their FOV. I've noticed that has become the culture here lately, and I fucking HATE it. Johnnyecks, #SnowyVernalSpringsEternal, mrbellamy and 6 others 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mstrox 6,651 Posted August 2, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted August 2, 2017 A likeable post if I've ever seen one. crumbs, Unlucky Bastard, Not Mr. Big and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted August 2, 2017 Author Share Posted August 2, 2017 1 hour ago, Quintus said: It seems the irony of the thread is lost on those dishing out copious amounts of LIKES like they're going out of fashion and planting them on any mildly agreeable post that comes level with their FOV. I've noticed that has become the culture here lately, and I fucking HATE it. This actually was one of the observations that got me thinking. I also noticed that the likes seem to skew heavily in favor of posts that are disparaging rather than positive. I performed extensive studies to verify this before starting the thread. Will and Johnnyecks 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Then stop hanging round here all day! In belated positive news, here is a sampling of Prince Philip's best quotes, proof that the art of negative thinking is not a recent phenomenon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 I blame Giachinno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 12 minutes ago, TheGreyPilgrim said: This actually was one of the observations that got me thinking. I also noticed that the likes seem to skew heavily in favor of posts that are disparaging rather than positive. So... people like hate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 I agree with Bloodboal 100%! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 5 minutes ago, publicist said: I agree with Bloodboal 100%! Here's another one to add to my signature! Johnnyecks and Will 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,913 Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 I just don't agree that generally speaking, we hate everything now. There are many pleasant surprises I have experienced in the past few days. A very simple example, I am loving Stranger Things, which I was only now introduced to after returning from Comic-con and must now binge watch. I was the age of the characters at that time so it has a certain 1980's nostalgia for me too. But wonderful writing, acting, characters, cast, etc. I will say there is a general feeling of anxiety but that is personal not general. Try not to get too bogged down in calamities. Times in the past have been much worse and we've made it through. I think all generations felt things weren't as good as it used to be. "Children today are spoiled. They contradict their parents, gobble their food, and tyrannize their teachers." So wrote Socrates in 450 B.C. I am not an optimist (I consider myself more of a pragmatist) but there are many amazing and wonderful things happening these days and we live in amazing times. It isn't full of hate and negativity but at times, I do agree it can feel hopeless. That is where perspective comes in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Take no notice, this is just a thread for GreyPilgrim to project his poorly shrouded vexation at having to endure a world where one or two JWFaners weren't too keen on Nolan's new movie. Plus I've been moaning about Twin Peaks on and off a bit. Away wit yer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUMENKOHL 1,068 Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 It’s cool to be a negative Nancy. Signals discerning taste to other “intellectuals.” /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Because once you get old, everything turns to shit. Jay and Johnnyecks 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 5 hours ago, TheGreyPilgrim said: Are people satisfied by the latest Transformers or Fast and Furious crap? I don't actually know, do these films perform well? Some people are. I had a really disturbing experience at the cinema and I wasn't even watching F&F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 What's wrong with the new Twin Peaks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted August 3, 2017 Author Share Posted August 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Quintus said: Take no notice, this is just a thread for GreyPilgrim to project his poorly shrouded vexation at having to endure a world where one or two JWFaners weren't too keen on Nolan's new movie. Plus I've been moaning about Twin Peaks on and off a bit. Away wit yer! Nope! 23 minutes ago, Evil-Lyn said: What's wrong with the new Twin Peaks? Not much, but it probably didn't need 18 episodes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 That's the same problem the original series had. Season 1 actually left you wanting more. Season 2 went on for too long with filler episodes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 There's a brilliant 9 episodes worth of brand new mesmerising storyline with some astonishing parts, which have unfortunately been stretched out to 18 'leisurely' hours by Lynch. Imagine if Peter Jackson had decided to make his universally beloved Hobbit film into a 9 hour trilogy instead? You get the idea! mstrox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 8 hours ago, karelm said: I just don't agree that generally speaking, we hate everything now. There are many pleasant surprises I have experienced in the past few days. A very simple example, I am loving Stranger Days, which I was only now introduced to after returning from Comic-con and must now binge watch. I was the age of the characters at that time so it has a certain 1980's nostalgia for me too. Don't you mean Stranger Things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 Stranger Things was shite. The very epitome of Netflix's algorithm driven story telling. People are watching X and Y. Let's combine them into z and nobody will notice!! Not Mr. Big 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 Not going to bother with season 2 then I take it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 I didn't even watch the last episode and a half of season 1. Was just dragging on too long and I couldn't be bothered. I could just the Goonies and ET again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 Fair enough. I couldn't really understand why the world went absolutely nuts for Stranger Things either, but I suppose TV is at the most zeitgeisty it has ever been. Blame social media. Nick1Ø66 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 Yeah, I think it appealed to a certain type of person who is very vocal in social media and or running stuff like BleedingCool and that sort of stuff. Its target audience is quite influential at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Quintus said: Fair enough. I couldn't really understand why the world went absolutely nuts for Stranger Things either, but I suppose TV is at the most zeitgeisty it has ever been. Blame social media. Season two needs to be a bit better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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