Disco Stu 15,495 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 I often decry polls on the forum, and there have been quite a few today, but I'm genuinely curious about others' thoughts on this. While I realize the Americana/Coplandesque style is not to everyone's taste, Lincoln is one of my personal favorite Williams OSTs, not least because of its deeply emotional, beautiful, spare melodies. I also love the very natural sounding recording of the CSO. Many thanks to @Incanus' analysis as a quick reference for theme names and timestamps. I realize I might be skewing the results somewhat with my selection of settings for each theme, especially for those not familiar enough with the score to have other settings in mind. I tried to pick 2 for each to give an idea of different ways Williams uses them. With Malice Toward None (1:19 - 1:49) [deep brass/woodwinds] (7:40 - 8:24) [solo trumpet w/ piano counterpoint] The American Process (8:25 - 9:13) [solo piano] (0:00 - 0:50) [woodwinds] The People's House (3:14 - 4:48) [woodwinds to strings, with climactic brass crescendos] (3:10 - end) [solo trumpet] Freedom's Call (3:19 - 5:29) [strings and brass, mostly. some woodwind textures adding color] (0:25 - 1:09) [solo piano to deep brass] Elegy (3:06 - end) Remembrance (though I often refer to it as The Blue and Grey due to the track title where it first appears) (9:29 - end) [solo piano] Getting Out the Vote (for giggles ) central melody introduced at 0:26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 Ooooh this is a tough one, there's just too many great damn themes in this score. I might have to listen to it again and get back to you! Josh500 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 They're all brilliant, but Remembrance it must be. Not Mr. Big and MikeH 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted November 14, 2017 Author Share Posted November 14, 2017 It's so achingly bittersweet on solo piano. I so want Williams to compose a heartbreaking, full-on Adagio-esque arrangement for strings crying out in pain, which will never happen. Fitting, I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 I think I truly prefer With Malice Towards None, but as a coda to the credits suite and score as a whole that passage is too haunting to ignore. Not Mr. Big 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 1. Rememberance 2. With Malice Towards None 3. The American Process 4. The People's House 5. Elegy 6. Getting Out the Vote 7. Freedom's Call I forgot how many fantastic melodies Lincoln has. Disco Stu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted November 14, 2017 Author Share Posted November 14, 2017 2 minutes ago, TheGreyPilgrim said: I think I truly prefer With Malice Towards None, but as a coda to the credits suite and score as a whole that passage is too haunting to ignore. I honestly can't decide which is my favorite, but I could easily be convinced to pick Remembrance. It expresses something fundamental about the human experience of grief/loss that can never be expressed with words. Jay and Not Mr. Big 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 10 minutes ago, TheGreyPilgrim said: I think I truly prefer With Malice Towards None, but as a coda to the credits suite and score as a whole that passage is too haunting to ignore. Agreed, though it's not complete without the warm piano reprise of With Malice Towards None afterwards. Dixon Hill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted November 14, 2017 Author Share Posted November 14, 2017 I have such fond memories of listening to this OST the entire month of December 2012, it always makes me think of Christmas! A season when I'm always prone to listen to music of a poignant/bittersweet tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 It's more autumnal for me. Approaching Thanksgiving, it'll soon be shelved again until next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mrbellamy 6,293 Posted November 14, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted November 14, 2017 "Remembrance" is definitely the one that sticks with me the most, though I think my single favorite moment in the score is the oboe solo of the "American Process" melody (at 0:50) when Lincoln is reading to Tad during the voting. DolceMecha, Disco Stu and Fozmo 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 People house BY FAR Classic Williams theme Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Disco Stu 15,495 Posted November 14, 2017 Author Popular Post Share Posted November 14, 2017 It's taken most of the day for me to decide. I've listened to the Lincoln OST three times! The American Process is my choice. I really like the opening folk-like melody, especially when played on piano as in the first clip I posted for it above, but it's the B section of the melody that I'm truly in love with. (8:49 - 9:14) Especially the section from 9:02 - 9:14 which for me just encapsulates how this score makes me feel. Notably of course it is this section that leads directly into our beloved Remembrance that closes the suite. Ooooh and I love when this B section is played with great force in the strings as in the opening track: (2:42 - 3:09) Jay, Will and artguy360 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien F 1,742 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 There are so many great themes in that score. It's actually insane how many he wrote for that movie. My pick would be The American Process. It is the piece that immediately comes to mind when I think of this score. It also the theme that mostly reminds me of 19th century American music. Disco Stu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted November 14, 2017 Author Share Posted November 14, 2017 I love that all 5 of what I would consider the "central" melodies of the score have gotten at least one vote. Really speaks to how great they all are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Damien F 1,742 Posted November 14, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted November 14, 2017 I know Getting Out The Vote was added for giggles, but its concert version is a really fun piece. Shame it wasn't included in the third Williams / Spielberg collection CD. Disco Stu, Will and ConorPower 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted November 14, 2017 Author Share Posted November 14, 2017 Just now, Damien F said: I know Getting Out The Vote was added for giggles, but its concert version is a really fun piece. Shame it wasn't included in the third Williams / Spielberg collection CD. I agree wholeheartedly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 A serious oversight of that CD! Why did we get TWO With Malice Towards Nones instead!? Damien F 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 Threads like this really help me realise I how good this score was and how much dedication WIlliams put into it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien F 1,742 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 I think it was more than dedication. I think it showcases how much love he has for Americana and he probably really enjoyed writing it. Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will 2,215 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 5 hours ago, king mark said: People house BY FAR Classic Williams theme Yep!! I remember it was one of the first Williams themes I ever fell in love with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,695 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 With Malice Towards None I don't think any of the others come close tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 4,672 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 I went with With Malice Towards None. I do really love the concert version of Getting out the Vote. I also really like Remembrance, but the way the melody closes reminds me so much of Rosewood that it takes me out of the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 All the themes in the score are beautiful pieces of Americana but I have to go With Malice Toward None. And now I have to listen to this score (yet) again. Thanks Disco Stu! Disco Stu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fancyarcher 350 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 With Malice Towards None gets my vote. It gives me a good feeling just listen to it. All of the "themes" in the score are absolutely outstanding though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 With Malice Toward None, for me. The themes are all inspired and great, but this one's arguably the most inspired and greatest. Reminds me somehow of Angela's Prayers theme from Angela's Ashes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 Just now, Josh500 said: None for me. Yup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted November 17, 2017 Author Share Posted November 17, 2017 I really love what I'll call the "19th century cadences" of this score. Can anyone recommend another score (from any decade) that has a similarly 19th century folk sense of counterpoint and harmony? Being only an extreme novice in music theory, I'm not sure how to communicate what I mean, but I don't just mean other Coplandesque Americana scores, but I'll take recommendations for those as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeallen01 2,136 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Such a phenomenal score. I love the emotionally related themes, but just for pure Williams whimsy I love the score accompanying James Spader and his dealings. Brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted November 17, 2017 Author Share Posted November 17, 2017 Absolutely stunning use of the Remembrance theme from 0:17 to 1:24 in this clip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 The names in the poll seem arbitrary to me. How did you com up with them? What you call With Malice Toward None is a great theme. It is best expressed as an aching violin solo in Track 12. It is as beautiful a solo as the violin solo in Jewish Town in Schindler's List. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,293 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 On 11/14/2017 at 10:11 AM, Disco Stu said: IMany thanks to @Incanus' analysis as a quick reference for theme names and timestamps But except for "Remembrance" they're also all track titles from the OST that heavily feature the themes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 Thanks to @Disco Stu and this thread, I've listened to the Lincoln OST thrice this week. It may be a boring answer, but I think my favorite theme is the People's House one. But dang, I can barely even separate the themes when trying to think of my "favorite", I kinda just like all the themes equally. It's one of the thematically richest scores he's ever done! Disco Stu and Will 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted November 22, 2017 Author Share Posted November 22, 2017 He was clearly inspired by the material and the subject generally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 Yes, very much so! You can tell he put a lot of effort into this and The Book Thief really. Actually all the ones adapted from books he read: HPSS and Memoirs too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will 2,215 Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 18 minutes ago, Jay said: Thanks to @Disco Stu and this thread, I've listened to the Lincoln OST thrice this week. It may be a boring answer, but I think my favorite theme is the People's House one. But dang, I can barely even separate the themes when trying to think of my "favorite", I kinda just like all the themes equally. It's one of the thematically richest scores he's ever done! Yeah, I remember back when I first was introduced to the score (several years ago) with the "Peterson House and Finale" track, I felt like everything flowed so beautifully together, with no awkward transitions between material. It just felt like one long concert piece. I was rather amazed to find out a couple years later, when I became a bigger JW fan, that the cue was really a medley of a bunch of different themes! Sometimes medleys can sound a little "forced" (TFA and BFG end credits do this IMO, although I still love them). Lincoln's, like quite a few other JW scores, did not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,373 Posted November 22, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted November 22, 2017 It's a great end credits suite, he's really been knocking those out of the park lately. The Force Awakens' is one of the best of his whole career! Cerebral Cortex, ConorPower and Will 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 Seeing this thread pop up, decided to revisit the score. I don't think it's unreasonable to say this is his best score since Munich/Memoirs. And its one of the few scores that so absolutely embodies Williams meticulous craft. Not a single note is wasted here. Cerebral Cortex 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 It's his best score since War Horse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 It's up there with Schindler's List and Munich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,044 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Toss-up for me between The People's House and The American Process. I'll vote for the latter because that was the one that stuck out to me the first time I saw the film, although I'd say I love them about equally now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted October 6, 2020 Author Share Posted October 6, 2020 Hey! I just discovered this video uploaded last month by the National Symphony Orchestra. It includes a FULL live performance of the three part suite from Lincoln. On top of that it also includes the suite from JFK, Copland's Lincoln Portrait, and Rhapsody in Blue. I have this timestamped to start with the Lincoln suite: SteveMc and Jay 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 I voted Remembrance? What the fuck??! (Malice would win for me now, followed by American Process) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted October 6, 2020 Author Share Posted October 6, 2020 And yes a perfect opportunity to bump this, probably my favorite thread I created A chance for original participants to revisit their choices and newer members to vote for the first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 Remembrance or The Blue and the Grey is one of my all-time favourite Williams pieces. It's a shame it wasn't used or developed any further as it's a somber, reflective piece that I think does more for me than With Malice Toward None. @Disco Stu As I remember you're the champion of this film and score, I have to thank you for letting me have another chance to reevaluate this score and purchase it a few years ago. Jay and Disco Stu 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted October 6, 2020 Author Share Posted October 6, 2020 I'm still in love that "American Process" b section that I posted as my favorite 3 years ago (2:42 - 3:09) I also happen to be watching the movie again tonight (it's major comfort food for me). I'm on that great scene where Lincoln entertains the war room during the shelling of Wilmington with a story of Ethan Allen. "Appropriate? George Washington's portrait in a water closet??" "Yes," said Mr. Allen, "where it'll do good service.. The whole world knows nothing will make an Englishman shit quicker than the sight of George Washington." Arpy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 41 minutes ago, Disco Stu said: Hey! I just discovered this video uploaded last month by the National Symphony Orchestra. It includes a FULL live performance of the three part suite from Lincoln. On top of that it also includes the suite from JFK, Copland's Lincoln Portrait, and Rhapsody in Blue. I have this timestamped to start with the Lincoln suite: Wow, awesome! This 3 movement suite should have been in Spielberg Williams III instead of what they went with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted October 6, 2020 Author Share Posted October 6, 2020 4 minutes ago, Jay said: Wow, awesome! This 3 movement suite should have been in Spielberg Williams III instead of what they went with I love Thomas Hooten's performance on "With Malice Toward None" too much to cut that. My current thinking is that the second strings-led version should have been cut and instead sub in "The Long Road to Justice" also with Hooten on solo trumpet. But of course I'd have taken the 3 movement suite too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 1 minute ago, Disco Stu said: My current thinking is that the second strings-led version should have been cut and instead sub in "The Long Road to Justice" also with Hooten on solo trumpet. Oh wow... Yes please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artguy360 1,844 Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 They're all so good and so many tracks on the OST weave in and out of one theme to the next in a way that almost escapes notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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