Popular Post Steve 593 Posted August 14, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 14, 2020 Compared to the Boston Pops concerts, the VPO performances are simply on another level. And the criticizm on the trumpets here seems over the top. They missed one!!! note the whole concerts. That was in Jurassic Park on sunday. Otherwise there were no flubs. I'm not calling timing issues a flub. Joni Wiljami, blondheim and Erik Woods 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 It's nonetheless an error that draws a lot of attention to itself. 1 hour ago, Thor said: From now on, I'm going to avoid this thread as much as possible, so I'm as fresh as possible when I get the set. As I said over on FSM, it will be a dual experience for me. On the one hand, immense frustration that I had to sell my ticket due to other obligations and the envy I feel towards those who were able to attend, and on the other hand delight in seeing Williams conduct a great concert, in sparkling sound and video. But I want to go in as unprepared as possible, to get the full impact. Haven't ordered it yet, though. Hopefully, it won't sell out. If you come to Nidaros we can watch it together! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kühni 485 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 blondheim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tannhauser 101 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 Haven’t read the whole thread so apologies if it’s been already discussed. But what’s with that big fat dominant 7th chord in the brass at 0:34 in Adventures on Earth!? It’s usually a major 7th right? Tydirium and tmarps 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Marian Schedenig 8,198 Posted August 14, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 14, 2020 10 hours ago, bruce marshall said: When you go to a concert do they sit part of the orchestra in a sling hanging from the ceiling? Yes, the Musikverein does have a roof, and yes, it does reflect sound. 3 hours ago, bigjimwilson said: Does anyone here who might be more familiar with the orchestra than I am, (Marian?... I'm thinking maybe you) do we know how much of the Wiener Philharmoniker "A-Team" we have here? I'm thinking about orchestras here in the UK who regularly have players dep their places out to stand in players. I'm assuming it works the same way the world over? I'm not that familiar with them (especially in concert setup - I've seen them now and again, but regularly only at the Staatsoper, where they rarely have their A configuration, and where I don't watch the players closely most of the time. I do know they had several other commitments that day, so some players might have been allocated to those. I don't know how free they are to choose their assignments if they have to split, or if some of them might have skipped the Williams concerts by choice or because the orchestra was already full. Cerebral Cortex, blondheim, bigjimwilson and 3 others 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Wan 65 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB-8 3,478 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Kühni said: That interview with ASM really sucks. She goes on and on about "her" second Violin Concerto...which is completed by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 21 minutes ago, E-Wan said: Is that you, @Marian Schedenig? BB-8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tydirium 1,167 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 1 hour ago, tannhauser said: Haven’t read the whole thread so apologies if it’s been already discussed. But what’s with that big fat dominant 7th chord in the brass at 0:34 in Adventures on Earth!? It’s usually a major 7th right? Noticed this too! Misprint? Wrong note played? Very strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 Probably a new arrangement. tmarps 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB-8 3,478 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 4 hours ago, bigjimwilson said: I've just had a thought while watching some of the video...... now as a disclaimer, obviously I adore John, why else would i be here?! and I really do respect the orchestra as being one of the best in the world, and I was at the concerts in person and honestly couldn't have hoped for a better experience...... so, with that said.... Does anyone here who might be more familiar with the orchestra than I am, (Marian?... I'm thinking maybe you) do we know how much of the Wiener Philharmoniker "A-Team" we have here? I'm thinking about orchestras here in the UK who regularly have players dep their places out to stand in players. I'm assuming it works the same way the world over? I'll never forget the disappointment I felt after attending a Beethoven performance from the Hallé here in Manchester, and talking to one of the woodwind players in the pub afterwards. My friend mentioned that I was coming to the Williams night they were having the following week, and before the sentence was even finished, she rolled her eyes and said "hmmmm, all a bit 'pops' for me, I think I'll be depping that one out." I think my reply was just "wow. well, I couldn't possibly disagree with you more if I tried." I wanted to make some quip about being careful heading back to the busy bar, your musical blinkers might cause problems. But I left it Anyway. I've seen the Hallé on nights where they're obviously the top players, and I've seen nights where they were lacking in certain areas. Sometimes it's down to conductor, but I guess sometimes it's down to the experience of the players too. The majority of this concert recording is absolutely perfect. But, as is the nature of live music.. there are a few little flubs here and there. And yes, we can't forget that Johnny is getting on a bit, and I wouldn't be surprised if by the time the Shark Cage Fugue came round he was waiting for his second wind. None of this takes away from my huge enjoyment of the album. It's a snapshot of a wonderful historic moment in time, and this is how it happened. Having seen a few New Year concerts with the Vienna Phil, and watching some clips of them with Andris Nelsons, I'm noticing some familiar faces but also seeing plenty that aren't there in the Williams footage. Members come and go, I understand that, but I have no idea how regular change over is. So I suppose my question is.... with the orchestra not being well known at all for their "pops" performances, do you think the line up we have at these concerts is made up of the regular players, or more "understudys" who might have been more excited about the prospect of a Williams concert? Was our dear John snubbed by any of the orchestra regulars do we think? Just a thought! Wondering if anyone else has a take on it. Possibly, a kind of "A-Team" of VPO was drawn together for Bernard Haitink's very last concerts last summer. PROMS, Salzburg, Lucerne. Now out on DVD and Bluray for comparison. bigjimwilson and blondheim 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Marian Schedenig 8,198 Posted August 14, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 14, 2020 8 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: Is that you, @Marian Schedenig? Erm no? That guy looks more like a cheap Williams clone than like me. BB-8, Jurassic Shark and Maglorfin 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 Well, you don't know which one of them I was referring to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB-8 3,478 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 17 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said: Erm no? That guy looks more like a cheap Williams clone than like me. Really, what's all the fuss about this Atmos? It reminds me of the early 90ties DGG 4D era which flopped. DGG has not always (not never) been a high-end recording house. For timeless high-end approaches to capturing natural orchestral sound I would refer to Chandos, Hyperion and BIS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 7 minutes ago, BB-8 said: DGG has never been a high-end recording house. Oh, they've done plenty of high-end recordings in the past. blondheim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB-8 3,478 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 Just now, Jurassic Shark said: Oh, they've done plenty of high-end recordings in the past. Depends how we define high-end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 9 minutes ago, BB-8 said: DGG has never been a high-end recording house. I definitely disagree. Karajan had a mastering problem in the 70s and 80s as he got into his 70s and 80s, and could not longer hear treble. He unfortunately was practically a dictator and also their biggest seller so his influence permeated for a while. But there have been some amazing DG recordings over the years, most especially before that point. Jochum's Carmina Burana from the 60s comes to mind immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 5 minutes ago, BB-8 said: Depends how we define high-end. So how do you define it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remco 685 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 I think it’s telling that quite a few players who are not playing on ‘Remembrances’ can be seen attentively listening with their eyes closed, and I think even visibly moved. Or it’s my wishful thinking? Edit: Goodness, I’m annoyed by Mutter’s presence on this. A lot of times when Williams is talking about something interesting she just interrupts and talks about herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,223 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 On 7/17/2020 at 10:36 AM, Mattris said: I noticed that Amazon pushed back the release of the Blu-Ray set to October 2, 2020. Hopefully, the producers are taking the additional time to make some improvements, such as picking the best performances (across the two concerts) and polishing the overall sound mix. On 7/17/2020 at 11:06 AM, Jay said: The concert video was finished months ago and the stream is the same thing we're getting on disc. The delay is only due to manufacturing delays of the physical product That answers my question regarding why the Blu-Ray and CD set will not be released and delivered via Amazon today as originally scheduled. October 2; the wait is unbearable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 This performance of Close Encounters is not getting near enough praise. Remco and tmarps 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverTrumpet 638 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 1 hour ago, JohnnyD said: That answers my question regarding why the Blu-Ray and CD set will not be released and delivered via Amazon today as originally scheduled. October 2; the wait is unbearable! But there's no digital version of the blu ray, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Marian Schedenig 8,198 Posted August 14, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 14, 2020 They really captured the Musikverein acoustics wonderfully on this. It sounds just like it really did sound in the hall. Joni Wiljami, Matthias, Amer and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB-8 3,478 Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 8 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said: They really captured the Musikverein acoustics wonderfully on this. It sounds just like it really did sound in the hall. Except for ASM who appears too loud when she comes in on her single track solo. 15 hours ago, Steve said: Compared to the Boston Pops concerts, the VPO performances are simply on another level. And the criticizm on the trumpets here seems over the top. They missed one!!! note the whole concerts. That was in Jurassic Park on sunday. Otherwise there were no flubs. I'm not calling timing issues a 11 hours ago, blondheim said: I definitely disagree. Karajan had a mastering problem in the 70s and 80s as he got into his 70s and 80s, and could not longer hear treble. He unfortunately was practically a dictator and also their biggest seller so his influence permeated for a while. But there have been some amazing DG recordings over the years, most especially before that point. Jochum's Carmina Burana from the 60s comes to mind immediately. Shostakovich 7 with Chicago and Bernstein. It's amazing! And evidence for just how perfect US brass sections are. This is a DGG live recording. blondheim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 46 minutes ago, BB-8 said: Shostakovich 7 with Chicago and Bernstein. It's amazing! And evidence for just how perfect US brass sections are. This is a DGG live recording. I agree wholeheartedly. Amazingly enough, that recording came out right around the time Karajan died. They either got their act together quick, or Bernstein, their other big seller, refused to let that happen because it's quite the lively mix. Those trumpets are absolute screamers. BB-8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 I got my Blu-ray yesterday. I haven't watched it yet, but I think I might have already spotted some JWFanners on the inside cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artguy360 1,843 Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 Listening to the album now on YouTube Music now. The acoustics are wonderful. Somehow I never noticed that The Rebellion is Reborn was part of the program. I'm so excited to hear the Vienna Philharmonic perform it! crumbs and BB-8 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB-8 3,478 Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 11 hours ago, Remco said: Edit: Goodness, I’m annoyed by Mutter’s presence on this. A lot of times when Williams is talking about something interesting she just interrupts and talks about herself. Her strong egocentric personality may have been imprinted through Karajan. blondheim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,317 Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 1 hour ago, artguy360 said: Listening to the album now on YouTube Music now. The acoustics are wonderful. Somehow I never noticed that The Rebellion is Reborn was part of the program. I'm so excited to hear the Vienna Philharmonic perform it! Such an underrated concert suite, that one! Everyone seems so fixated on the fact John weaved two themes together, but if not the precedent set with the previous 7 scores, nobody would be any the wiser! A magnificent piece of music. Only wish he'd performed Rey's Theme, but I assume it would've been the inferior Mutter version anyway. BB-8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,349 Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 Finally started listening. Flight to Neverland: So is this what I'm supposed to be so excited about? And is this really the Vienna Phil? How exactly does an orchestra with their reputation manage to be ten times worse and more sloppy than the Boston Pops? The horns literally miss the first note they have to play! Close Encounters: Okay, this is much better, but give me Dudamel or Brossé any time instead. Devil’s Dance: Wow! Overly long opening and cadenza, but Mutter is clearly in a league of her own. Adventures on Earth: I do not like these trumpets and horns. Error in the brass. Cor anglais is top-notch. Too much vibrato in the strings. Timpani misses beat at the very end. Pity. Jurassic Park: Now this is more like it. Two errors, but otherwise perfect. Dartmoor, 1912: Those strings are so, so good. Now I’m hearing what I was hoping to hear from this orchestra. Really long silence between tracks, though. Suite from Jaws: Surprisingly slow tempo and not everyone is always in sync, but I’m still hearing professionals at work. One Horn error. Again, awesome strings and trombones. Climax was fantastic. More tomorrow. Steve and Jurassic Shark 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,198 Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 7 hours ago, BB-8 said: Except for ASM who appears too loud when she comes in on her single track solo. I think there's a significant mix difference in the different tracks. It's hard to judge (different amps, speakers vs. headphones, and the psychology of seeing the musicians in the video), but the surround mix seems to have very natural acoustics that sounds exactly like the Golden Hall, while the stereo mixes (both of the album and the full concert) have more of an "album" sound - good, but different. BB-8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 31 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: Suite from Jaws: Surprisingly slow tempo and not everyone is always in sync, but I’m still hearing professionals at work. One Horn error. Again, awesome strings and trombones. Climax was fantastic. What about that uneven flute playing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve 593 Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 1 hour ago, bollemanneke said: Finally started listening. Flight to Neverland: So is this what I'm supposed to be so excited about? And is this really the Vienna Phil? How exactly does an orchestra with their reputation manage to be ten times worse and more sloppy than the Boston Pops? The horns literally miss the first note they have to play! Close Encounters: Okay, this is much better, but give me Dudamel or Brossé any time instead. Devil’s Dance: Wow! Overly long opening and cadenza, but Mutter is clearly in a league of her own. Adventures on Earth: I do not like these trumpets and horns. Error in the brass. Cor anglais is top-notch. Too much vibrato in the strings. Timpani misses beat at the very end. Pity. Jurassic Park: Now this is more like it. Two errors, but otherwise perfect. Dartmoor, 1912: Those strings are so, so good. Now I’m hearing what I was hoping to hear from this orchestra. Really long silence between tracks, though. Suite from Jaws: Surprisingly slow tempo and not everyone is always in sync, but I’m still hearing professionals at work. One Horn error. Again, awesome strings and trombones. Climax was fantastic. More tomorrow. A joke it seems. Where are the supposed errors in JP for example? Utterly bullshit review, sorry. 1 hour ago, bollemanneke said: Flight to Neverland: So is this what I'm supposed to be so excited about? And is this really the Vienna Phil? How exactly does an orchestra with their reputation manage to be ten times worse and more sloppy than the Boston Pops? The horns literally miss the first note they have to play! Show me one Pops version that is better, please. And I'm not talking about the studio recording on the Spielberg Vol.1 1 hour ago, bollemanneke said: Close Encounters: Okay, this is much better, but give me Dudamel or Brossé any time instead. Best verison of close encounters ever. Brosse? LoL. The Dudamel version is fine too, though. 1 hour ago, bollemanneke said: Adventures on Earth: I do not like these trumpets and horns. Error in the brass. Cor anglais is top-notch. Too much vibrato in the strings. Timpani misses beat at the very end. Pity. Times for the errors, please. The brass is majestically here. No errors or flubs. Perfect version, best live version I know. 24 minutes ago, Steve said: Suite from Jaws: Surprisingly slow tempo and not everyone is always in sync, but I’m still hearing professionals at work. One Horn error. Again, awesome strings and trombones. Climax was fantastic. Timing for the supposed horn error, please. The tempo is fine for me. Almost perfect version. At least as good as the one on Spielberg Collection Vol. 1 As I said before, these are the best live versions of the tracks that I know of. I also like the Dudamel recording, but it is also patched together from four concerts. Some people here act as if this is my local Orchestra trying to play a difficult program. Pathetic. One can nitpick releases to death, or one can enjoy fantastic recordings. I choose the latter one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,349 Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 I was most certainly not joking. No time to point out individual seconds now, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve 593 Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 11 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: I was most certainly not joking. No time to point out individual seconds now, sorry. Can't wait for your further analysis. With timestamps, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB-8 3,478 Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 1 hour ago, Marian Schedenig said: I think there's a significant mix difference in the different tracks. It's hard to judge (different amps, speakers vs. headphones, and the psychology of seeing the musicians in the video), but the surround mix seems to have very natural acoustics that sounds exactly like the Golden Hall, while the stereo mixes (both of the album and the full concert) have more of an "album" sound - good, but different. For this obvious balance problem, I think it was the right decision of the producers to discard all except one of the ASM pieces from the CD and vinyl releases. Though a 2 CD set could have worked, combining all ASM arrangements onto disc 2. But then given the ATS studiio album, I can understand why they just included Daryl's Dance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remco 685 Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 @Steve I’m happy for you that you don’t notice the errors, but @bollemanneke is totally right. Still, I can’t help but accept them because the sound is so glorious. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 Errors have never sounded this great! Martinland and Matthias 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 Errors errors!! 😱😱😱 Sad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remco 685 Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 I feel like we’re just listening to an unedited live performance. Did they really use the takes from the first day and repair sessions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve 593 Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 18 minutes ago, Remco said: @Steve I’m happy for you that you don’t notice the errors, but @bollemanneke is totally right. Still, I can’t help but accept them because the sound is so glorious. Minor errors at best. Horns are meant to fail in concert. It's such a difficult instrument to play. The intonation may not always be perfectly fine. Doesn't make it a error though. I guess I'm listening to a different concert. I found more errors in the so highly praised Brosse London concert than in the Vienna one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remco 685 Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 1 minute ago, Steve said: Minor errors at best. Horns are meant to fail in concert. It's such a difficult instrument to play. The intonation may not always be perfectly fine. Doesn't make it a error though. I’m not talking about the Horns. The orchestra in general plays quite sloppy on many moments. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve 593 Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, Remco said: I’m not talking about the Horns. The orchestra in general plays quite sloppy on many moments. Their timing wasn't the best, I agree. Especially the percussionists often lacked timing. That was already noticeable in the concert hall. However that's nothing new. Orchestras rarely have good timing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB-8 3,478 Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 I have really no reason to complain. The sound improvement is significant. Martinland 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remco 685 Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 4 minutes ago, Steve said: There timing wasn't the best, I agree. Especially the percussionists often lacked timing. That was already noticeable in the concert hall. However that's nothing new. Orchestras rarely have good timing. This relativism gets a bit annoying, I’m sorry. The Dudamel LA album didn’t have these problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve 593 Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 19 minutes ago, Remco said: This relativism gets a bit annoying, I’m sorry. The Dudamel LA album didn’t have these problems. Which tunes are you talking about? On a side note: the dudamel album was merged together from 4 night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 Jaws, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 22 minutes ago, Steve said: Which tunes are you talking about? On a side note: the dudamel album was merged together from 4 night. Yes and the orchestra familiar with this music. Not the bread and butter for VP. I loved this. I try to avoid this rathole, but now too drunk I sinked again🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve 593 Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 7 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: Jaws, for example. The whole title?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 Out to Sea / The Shark Cage Fugue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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