Star Wars: Andor (2022) - released episode spoilers allowed

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

I dont remember a single note from the score. If i didnt knew, i would say the show is unscored 

[LSH 969]

19 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

I dont remember a single note from the score. If i didnt knew, i would say the show is unscored 

 

Yes, I understand the tone they are going for but the music could be a little more obvious at least. 

 

Somebody here suggested that the Minority Report stylings of John Williams would work well.

 

On 07/10/2022 at 12:11 PM, DiamondFire said:

Oh yeah totally. The TIE moments in this show so far have been superb. The one in last weeks episode scared the absolute shit out of me.

 

Yes, that was an awesome little moment.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I'm really liking the show, but I too don't notice the score at all.

 

Must admit to being perplexed by comments like below (yes, I'm aware this guy is a Lucasfilm employee, but still I don't think he's lying about loving the score this much).  Tastes differ of course, but it's not like I find the music not to my taste, I just literally don't notice there is any.

 

 

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

I dont even remember andor’s theme!

 

the star wars heads title music used for the series (and mandalorian) is more memorable

 

[GerateWohl 4,370]

1 hour ago, Disco Stu said:

I'm really liking the show, but I too don't notice the score at all.

 

Must admit to being perplexed by comments like below (yes, I'm aware this guy is a Lucasfilm employee, but still I don't think he's lying about loving the score this much).  Tastes differ of course, but it's not like I find the music not to my taste, I just literally don't notice there is any.

 

 

I would even go that far, that If someone loves Brittel's music that much for what it is, a Star Wars score, has no clue at all about what makes Williams' film music and his Star Wars scores in particular so special and good.

 

Ii understand, what some people like about scores like Brittel's. The music is simple, unoptrusive, easily accessible, pleasant and doesn't challenge your intellect to any degree. People who listen to music just to relax. But forgive me, I am not interested in those people's opinions about music.

[Tallguy 3,395]

4 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

I would even go that far, that If someone loves Brittel's music that much for what it is, a Star Wars score, has no clue at all about what makes Williams' film music and his Star Wars scores in particular so special and good.

 

Ehhhh. I like a lot of scores that aren't Star Wars scores. Just because this is in a Star Wars property, in the Star Wars universe, whatever, only makes it a Star Wars score inasmuch as it is those things. But it's not even glancing at the same space that Williams occupied.

 

On the one hand, this is a good thing. The nut that Lucasfilm has been trying to crack that, for instance, Marvel has managed is making different genres work in the same framework. They don't have to be / can't be the exact same kind of story told over and over. And for whatever you think of it this is not the same Star Wars story we've been told before. And it has a very different score to match.

 

On the other hand Star Wars has one of the greatest musical languages ever created for film. (IMHO.) I guess I might think "Can you imagine trying to do that for 24 episodes in a row?"

[1977 1,743]

I stuck with this show up to episode 5, hoping it would improve, but sadly this ain't my Star Wars. As bad as Kenobi was, at least it was watchable in part. This is a slog to get through.

 

[GerateWohl 4,370]

I was wondering at some dialogue scenes in the show, why this doesn't feel like SW a lot. And I realized, in SW dialogues had just the purpose of charaterization or driving the plot or world building or all three. But here suddenly appear dialogues just to expose personal matters of people or just for the sake of it. That is a new facette. I am not sure yet If I like that or not.

[Tallguy 3,395]

1 hour ago, GerateWohl said:

I am not sure yet If I like that or not.

 

I think I'm with you. Even if this sticks the landing(s) I can't see myself revisiting this much. I definitely don't need this to be "The new direction of Star Wars".

 

As much as I'm loving this, I remember how much FUN I had watching the first season of Rebels. This is really GOOD. But it isn't FUN.

[LSH 969]

I'm still liking it. I've never really had much invested in Star Wars to begin with but I've enjoyed most of the spin-off stuff, Obi Wan Kenobi aside. 

 

I like the approach to this. It's low key, shot from a grounded perspective, and doesn't rely on the fan base to get its 'yay' moments.

 

I do, however, wish the music would be more prominent. It doesn't need bombast, but it deserves something more ..... 'there'.

[Andy 4,138]

1 hour ago, Tallguy said:

 

I think I'm with you. Even if this sticks the landing(s) I can't see myself revisiting this much. I definitely don't need this to be "The new direction of Star Wars".

 

As much as I'm loving this, I remember how much FUN I had watching the first season of Rebels. This is really GOOD. But it isn't FUN.

Thank you for saying this. All of what you said resonates with me.  This is not for me. And I’m coming to terms with the first major SW I actively dislike.  I appreciate that others dig it, but I am fearful Lucasfilm will say, see?  We need more of that!

 

I will watch this through to the end, but I will never ever devote time to this again.   Unless Salacious Crumb becomes a major character in like the 8th episode or something. 

[Tallguy 3,395]

2 hours ago, LSH said:

and doesn't rely on the fan base to get its 'yay' moments.

 

You know, it should be lauded just for this. As far as I can tell the fan service is at near 0. As much as I think it will be / should be hard to avoid telling a believable Mon Mothma story in this era without involving the Organas, I love how far away from the Skywalker movies this has kept.

 

1 hour ago, Andy said:

And I’m coming to terms with the first major SW I actively dislike.

 

With the possible exception of Resistance, I think the only two major SW projects I actively dislike are Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith.

 

The three sequel movies are... fine. They're dumb as rocks even in a Star Wars context. (I think JJ must live a very good life to write something so disconnected from it). But they're fine. I love Rogue One and Solo. Book of Boba has serious and terrible problems, but I still found things in it that were rewarding. Mando is a hoot. Clone Wars keeps tricking me into thinking that I like 2 and 3. And Rebels gives me that 1977 Star Wars high for, like, four seasons. Ahhhhh, yeah. That's the stuff.

 

Eps 2 and 3 kept making me cry "Why George? WHY?!?"

[DarthDementous 1,059]

Catching up on the discourse in this thread (and regretting that choice)...

What is up with these completely off-base criticisms? The amount of passes the other Star Wars shows have gotten only for this one to get completely needled, and needled incorrectly is mind-boggling. Someone even said that the nightmare scenario is that Lucasfilm looks at this show and say 'let's make more of that'. Yes, because we really want Lucasfilm to retreat to making corporate milquetoast Star Wars and not experimenting with other people's strong visions again. TLJ was misguided in many ways but the response to it may have been the worst part because all the wrong lessons were learned. I'm sure people are just chomping at the bit for more Obi Wan Kenobi's and Book of Boba Fett's of which Andor is a direct counter to. Be very careful about what it is that you're actually advocating here, Lucasfilm is notoriously reactionary just like their audience

I want to briefly address the criticism that all the female characters in Andor have no flaws. Now, I believe this comes from a belief that this is a show with feminist messaging - which may be true. That's not inherently a bad thing though, what would be a bad thing is if the relatability of the world and characters suffered dramatically as a result of it being filtered through a radical lens. There are certainly shows that are falling victim to that, She-Hulk being probably the best example of that. To include Andor in that same category is absolutely ludicrous though, again think about what it is you're actually advocating for here.

No one in Andor is living their best life, they're all quite flawed people in a flawed world regardless of gender. You may not feel that because the show isn't interested in bashing you over the head with what's right or wrong, it just presents the reality of it all as best as it can and invites you to make your own conclusions. There's certainly an intent to communicate a message but I think it's indirect and more organic because the world and characters within it seem to come first in terms of priority.

As an example, Mon Mothma. This is someone who comes from a life of luxury, she cares about the struggles people go through yes, and advocates for them, but she is ultimately detached from it on the ground-level. She dismisses servants with annoyance like they're flies she's trying to swat so she can argue with her husband, she is very much out of touch with the working class and benefits from them. Her biggest concern right now is being found out at a fancy dinner with some of the most powerful people in the galaxy while some members of the Rebellion are just struggling to exist. You can learn a lot about someone from the people they choose to associate with, and Mon Mothma's clearly failing marriage is indicative of a very relatable complacency, particularly from someone who comes from a privileged upbringing. Her Chandrilan husband has many powerful connections and is likely quite wealthy himself, but Mon Mothma doesn't need him, he's an active detriment to what she's trying to accomplish. Yet she stays with him likely because it's familiar, comfortable, and to divorce would cause great upheaval in the short-term. The choice is still there though, if this were a fully actualized person she would take it, and to be fair that may still happen as we've only just been introduced to this character.

These aren't people distorted by an ideological lens, they're regular people who want to do their own definition of good but are limited by their circumstances to do so. That right there may as well be the main theme of the entire show, and I cannot for the life of me figure out how people are missing that beyond them seeing it through their own ideological distortions

[Nick1Ø66 4,718]

11 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

Catching up on the discourse in this thread (and regretting that choice)...

What is up with these completely off-base criticisms? The amount of passes the other Star Wars shows have gotten only for this one to get completely needled, and needled incorrectly is mind-boggling. Someone even said that the nightmare scenario is that Lucasfilm looks at this show and say 'let's make more of that'. Yes, because we really want Lucasfilm to retreat to making corporate milquetoast Star Wars and not experimenting with other people's strong visions again. TLJ was misguided in many ways but the response to it may have been the worst part because all the wrong lessons were learned. I'm sure people are just chomping at the bit for more Obi Wan Kenobi's and Book of Boba Fett's of which Andor is a direct counter to. Be very careful about what it is that you're actually advocating here, Lucasfilm is notoriously reactionary just like their audience

I want to briefly address the criticism that all the female characters in Andor have no flaws. Now, I believe this comes from a belief that this is a show with feminist messaging - which may be true. That's not inherently a bad thing though, what would be a bad thing is if the relatability of the world and characters suffered dramatically as a result of it being filtered through a radical lens. There are certainly shows that are falling victim to that, She-Hulk being probably the best example of that. To include Andor in that same category is absolutely ludicrous though, again think about what it is you're actually advocating for here.

No one in Andor is living their best life, they're all quite flawed people in a flawed world regardless of gender. You may not feel that because the show isn't interested in bashing you over the head with what's right or wrong, it just presents the reality of it all as best as it can and invites you to make your own conclusions. There's certainly an intent to communicate a message but I think it's indirect and more organic because the world and characters within it seem to come first in terms of priority.

As an example, Mon Mothma. This is someone who comes from a life of luxury, she cares about the struggles people go through yes, and advocates for them, but she is ultimately detached from it on the ground-level. She dismisses servants with annoyance like they're flies she's trying to swat so she can argue with her husband, she is very much out of touch with the working class and benefits from them. Her biggest concern right now is being found out at a fancy dinner with some of the most powerful people in the galaxy while some members of the Rebellion are just struggling to exist. You can learn a lot about someone from the people they choose to associate with, and Mon Mothma's clearly failing marriage is indicative of a very relatable complacency, particularly from someone who comes from a privileged upbringing. Her Chandrilan husband has many powerful connections and is likely quite wealthy himself, but Mon Mothma doesn't need him, he's an active detriment to what she's trying to accomplish. Yet she stays with him likely because it's familiar, comfortable, and to divorce would cause great upheaval in the short-term. The choice is still there though, if this were a fully actualized person she would take it, and to be fair that may still happen as we've only just been introduced to this character.

These aren't people distorted by an ideological lens, they're regular people who want to do their own definition of good but are limited by their circumstances to do so. That right there may as well be the main theme of the entire show, and I cannot for the life of me figure out how people are missing that beyond them seeing it through their own ideological distortions

 

Or some people simply think the show's just not that good.

[1977 1,743]

I think the characters have something to do with the lack of investment I'm feeling from this. They're just bland, soulless placeholders for...something. Now if there was an actual story being told that was compelling I could deal with that, but this is akin to sitting on a bench watching random people walk by.

[DarthDementous 1,059]

11 hours ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

 

Or some people simply think the show's just not that good.

Good job addressing literally nothing I said

[Faleel 5,350]

21 hours ago, Tallguy said:

 

And Rebels gives me that 1977 Star Wars high for, like, four seasons.

So like, all of them?

[Tallguy 3,395]

7 minutes ago, Roll the Bones said:

So like, all of them?

 

Almost exactly like, yeah.

[Pellaeon 593]

4 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

Good job addressing literally nothing I said

 

People are allowed to make their own points, whether or not they directly answer yours. I guess most people are just shooting the breeze about what they’re deciding to watch; they’re not trying to send a message to Disney or whatever. There is a huge quantity of SW TV now, and there’s no obligation to watch it all.

 

From my point of view, if you write a story about Sherlock Holmes, it will be judged on the basis of whether it’s good Arthur Conan Doyle pastiche. A new Conan of Cimmeria story will be judged on how good of a Robert E. Howard pastiche it is. They can be pastiched forever and never lose their fun; the game is not to reinvent the formula, and certainly not to debunk or contradict the originals in any way, but to tell a smashing good yarn within the context—to see how close you can come to beating Doyle or Howard at his own game.

 

Star Wars is a bit like that. The essential works of art/literature/film which define Star Wars are in the past. When a new piece calls itself Star Wars, people will say, well, are there heroes and villains? Space battles? Droids and aliens? Exotic planets? Was it optimistic and adventurous? Mystical, romantic, funny? Was there magnificent orchestral music? Because if it strays too far from too many of these points, people will say, maybe bring back some of that stuff I liked. Or do your thing; it’s just not for me. Or maybe just let it lie dormant for a while.

[JohnTheBaptist 57]

On 08/10/2022 at 12:47 PM, GerateWohl said:

The music is simple, unoptrusive, easily accessible, pleasant and doesn't challenge your intellect to any degree. People who listen to music just to relax.

If John Williams Star Wars music was designed to "challenge your intellect", it wouldn't have sold nearly as well as it has. I'm pretty sure that like all film and television music, it was designed to be background noise for a pretty picture.

[DarthDementous 1,059]

1 hour ago, Pellaeon said:

 

People are allowed to make their own points, whether or not they directly answer yours. I guess most people are just shooting the breeze about what they’re deciding to watch; they’re not trying to send a message to Disney or whatever. There is a huge quantity of SW TV now, and there’s no obligation to watch it all.

 

From my point of view, if you write a story about Sherlock Holmes, it will be judged on the basis of whether it’s good Arthur Conan Doyle pastiche. A new Conan of Cimmeria story will be judged on how good of a Robert E. Howard pastiche it is. They can be pastiched forever and never lose their fun; the game is not to reinvent the formula, and certainly not to debunk or contradict the originals in any way, but to tell a smashing good yarn within the context—to see how close you can come to beating Doyle or Howard at his own game.

 

Star Wars is a bit like that. The essential works of art/literature/film which define Star Wars are in the past. When a new piece calls itself Star Wars, people will say, well, are there heroes and villains? Space battles? Droids and aliens? Exotic planets? Was it optimistic and adventurous? Mystical, romantic, funny? Was there magnificent orchestral music? Because if it strays too far from too many of these points, people will say, maybe bring back some of that stuff I liked. Or do your thing; it’s just not for me. Or maybe just let it lie dormant for a while.

This is a weird lecture to get from an EU fan of all people

Yes, people can make their own points, however that was a direct response to what I was saying and it sidestepped the entire argument by saying 'maybe people just don't like the show' which is like...okay? Maybe? I'm more interested as to why people do or don't like something and whether that's supported by the thing itself

[GerateWohl 4,370]

52 minutes ago, JohnTheBaptist said:

If John Williams Star Wars music was designed to "challenge your intellect", it wouldn't have sold nearly as well as it has.

That is simply wrong.

The reason why this music has in the meantime such a vivid existence on its own apart from the pictures is because it has much more value than just being background music.

Opposite to Andor. 

[Pellaeon 593]

8 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

This is a weird lecture to get from an EU fan of all people

 

The EU is no different at all. When an EU story recaptures the magic of the OT, people love it, they can’t get enough. When it falls too far from the tree, people say it’s weird, it doesn’t feel like Star Wars.

[JohnTheBaptist 57]

8 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

That is simply wrong.

The reason why this music has in the meantime such a vivid existence on its own apart from the pictures is because it has much more value than just being background music.

Opposite to Andor. 

That doesn't make it "intellectually challenging". It's not Schoenberg. Again, if it was intellectually challenging, the general public would hate it.

[crocodile 8,017]

I sort of enjoy this series due to overall high quality of production values, performances and generally more (pretentious?) grown-up attitude. Having said that, I am hoping the entire world building starts to pay off because after 5 episodes all of it feels bit scattered.

 

Karol

[GerateWohl 4,370]

49 minutes ago, JohnTheBaptist said:

That doesn't make it "intellectually challenging". It's not Schoenberg. Again, if it was intellectually challenging, the general public would hate it.

You are twisting my words. I said, music like The Andor score is not intellecually challenging in any way. That is an exaggerated way of saying something doesn't contain anything worth thinking about. 

[Positivatee 327]

I don't notice the music in Andor. It's there but it's not memorable at all. 

[Edmilson 7,466]

2 hours ago, Positivatee said:

It's there but it's not memorable at all. 

A description that also applies to the scores of about 80% of Hollywood movies and TV shows these days.

[Positivatee 327]

1 hour ago, Edmilson said:

A description that also applies to about 80% of Hollywood movies and TV shows these days.

 

While true, Star Wars media should never have unmemorable music. 

 

Every Williams score has a few earworms.

 

Rogue One has a great villain march. 

 

The Mandalorian has very unique music. 

 

But Andor's is meh. 

[DarthDementous 1,059]

7 hours ago, Pellaeon said:

 

The EU is no different at all. When an EU story recaptures the magic of the OT, people love it, they can’t get enough. When it falls too far from the tree, people say it’s weird, it doesn’t feel like Star Wars.

How do you explain KOTOR 2, The Bane Trilogy, and Plagueis then?

[Pellaeon 593]

Not familiar, TBH. You pegged me as an EU fan, and now you’re trying to gotcha me on EU minutiae. I suppose I would say that if there are “Sith” stories which are highly regarded, then they “recapture the magic” not of the OT but rather of the PT and specifically RotS. So that’s kind of a corollary rather than a refutation. But also you will note that after an overabundance of these “Darth” products, the franchise course-corrected and we’ve not really heard much from them since.

[Faleel 5,350]

NVM

[DarthDementous 1,059]

6 hours ago, Pellaeon said:

Not familiar, TBH. You pegged me as an EU fan, and now you’re trying to gotcha me on EU minutiae. I suppose I would say that if there are “Sith” stories which are highly regarded, then they “recapture the magic” not of the OT but rather of the PT and specifically RotS. So that’s kind of a corollary rather than a refutation. But also you will note that after an overabundance of these “Darth” products, the franchise course-corrected and we’ve not really heard much from them since.

Well, that's curious. Because you very confidently said that the EU was no different yet you seem to not have actually had much experience with it or what it is that people appreciate about it. The examples I brought up (and these are probably the most popular EU works next to the Thrawn Trilogy) do what Andor does, take a much more realistic look at the universe and explore areas that were barely even grazed in the movies with great detail and a 'no holds barred' approach. You could argue they're more science fiction than science fantasy, especially KOTOR 2. KOTOR 2 being particularly notable because it actively tries to deconstruct Lucas' Star Wars much like TLJ tried and failed at

However, they fit quite seamlessly in the universe because of the attention to the world they exist in, they augment rather than replace and tell self-contained stories whilst also giving some context to the stories we're familiar with, overall enriching the universe

[Pellaeon 593]

[mstrox 6,651]

Won’t speak for the PT fans, but we weren’t all making heart eyes for Zahn in 1992.

[Pellaeon 593]

I didn’t read them till 2016, TBH.

 

Lots of people did, though, I guess.

[DarthDementous 1,059]

That latest episode of Andor was absolutely incredible, between House of The Dragon and this, blockbuster television is soaring right now (we don't talk about Rings of Power)

Just...wow. The detail in everything again, the character conflicts, the tension, the visuals, the pay-offs. Episode 6 really feels like it has elevated the show as a whole and I love that we immediately feel the effects of the Rebel attack because it would be that significant, even down to the layperson noticing it on the news. I loved it.

[JNHFan2000 2,966]

I definitely liked this episode the most. But I'm still not completely hooked. I feel it moves to slow and I still don't really care about many of the characters.

 

I don't feel it's bad. But for me there's just something missing and I can't put my finger on what that is.

[A24 4,338]

Is it better than The Book of Boba Fett?

[mstrox 6,651]

Terrific episode!

[Disco Stu 15,495]

[DarthDementous 1,059]

48 minutes ago, AC1 said:

Is it better than The Book of Boba Fett?

Significantly so. It's pretty much the exact opposite of the way everything was approached in that show

[A24 4,338]

7 minutes ago, DarthDementous said:

Significantly so. It's pretty much the exact opposite of the way everything was approached in that show

 

Ah, good! I already expected that after watching the trailer, but maybe the trailer was misleading. 

[mstrox 6,651]

The episode was also radiant.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

13 minutes ago, mstrox said:

The episode was also radiant.

 

That Andor is some pig!

[Tallguy 3,395]

That was something else. This might even be some music I'd listen to on it's own. The opening titles sounded a bit like Michael Kamen's Logan and Rogue.

 

With all of the OT recreations in this and Rogue One that feel like "This is how it REALLY looks!" it was interesting to see the Imperial Senate. That's just a tough space to make look believable. Good college try though.

 

Loading up the TIE fighters? Squeeee!

[Pellaeon 593]

Crunchy.

[Oswin Pond 58]

On 08/10/2022 at 7:13 PM, Tallguy said:

 

I think I'm with you. Even if this sticks the landing(s) I can't see myself revisiting this much. I definitely don't need this to be "The new direction of Star Wars".

 

As much as I'm loving this, I remember how much FUN I had watching the first season of Rebels. This is really GOOD. But it isn't FUN.

 

But the best Star Wars movies (3 & 5 ) are not fun at all.

I agree that being fun is part of Star Wars, but there is also a lot of Star Wars that isn't fun and is still very good. So far Andor is imo the best live action project we've had since Revenge of the Sith in 2005. With maybe Rogue One too but that's it.

 

That last episode was absolutely fantastic.

The only thing I dislike is the music. 

[Tallguy 3,395]

1 hour ago, Oswin Pond said:

But the best Star Wars movies (3 & 5 ) are not fun at all.

 

5 is a hoot. "Laugh it up, fuzzball!" The battle in the snow, the asteroid field. Vader's jump scare on Cloud City. "Mine! Mine! Mine! Or I will help you not!" The saber fight with Luke and Vader is thrilling. It might be the "serious" one of the OT, but it is certainly fun.

 

I find 3 to be unwatchable.

[Oswin Pond 58]

20 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

 

5 is a hoot. "Laugh it up, fuzzball!" The battle in the snow, the asteroid field. Vader's jump scare on Cloud City. "Mine! Mine! Mine! Or I will help you not!" The saber fight with Luke and Vader is thrilling. It might be the "serious" one of the OT, but it is certainly fun.

 

I find 3 to be unwatchable.

 

The beginning of the movie is kind of fun yeah (although miles from anything in 1 4 and 6) but then it gets so serious and that's the best part. 

 

I find 3 to be the best Star Wars, and yet it's really not fun, more tragic. The point is that some Star Wars movies are less fun than others, some games too. KOTOR is very very serious yet it's vastly regarded as the best Star Wars game. That's okay to have a balance instead of everything being the same.