Datameister 2,044 Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 1 hour ago, bollemanneke said: Oh, also, I discovered something else yesterday: that grace note in the Firebolt that we were all surprised at, it's actually in the film. I don't understand why I found that weird at first as I've definitely spent more time with the film than that problematic OST. Now THAT is something that sounds like it shouldn't be there. (Because it shouldn't.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,349 Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 Yeah, I must say, I just thought carefully about what you said about the family theme always sounding like this in HP1, and again, I don't understand why I never realised that. I still prefer the film version, but you're right. God, still discovering things after 21 years. Datameister 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,349 Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 @TSMeffordI just found your alternate firebolt synced to picture in this thread. My God, it does indeed work very well. TSMefford 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMefford 1,509 Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 On 21/09/2022 at 3:48 AM, bollemanneke said: @TSMeffordI just found your alternate firebolt synced to picture in this thread. My God, it does indeed work very well. Oh yeah! Thanks! It's quite cool to hear it in the scene and it's not bad at all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB-8 3,478 Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 I just had a more generic thought: The only thing that will remain of the whole Potter/Rowling franchise will be the music of John Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HunterTech 994 Posted September 24, 2022 Share Posted September 24, 2022 Eh. Complicated as my feelings on the franchise may be currently, there's too much there that worked for it to not be remembered for a lot of positive reasons. The music is certainly the easiest to divorce from it, but it's too ingrained into pop culture for it to drop off so easily without the author actually committing a heinous crime. TSMefford, ConorPower and Unlucky Bastard 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,349 Posted September 24, 2022 Share Posted September 24, 2022 10 hours ago, BB-8 said: I just had a more generic thought: The only thing that will remain of the whole Potter/Rowling franchise will be the music of John Williams. Please don't forget Patrick Doyle. Please. HunterTech 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB-8 3,478 Posted September 24, 2022 Share Posted September 24, 2022 1 hour ago, bollemanneke said: Please don't forget Patrick Doyle. Please. OK, but am I allowed to forget Hooper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,349 Posted September 24, 2022 Share Posted September 24, 2022 Yes, you most certainly are. BB-8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMefford 1,509 Posted September 24, 2022 Share Posted September 24, 2022 *sigh* Hooper haters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,349 Posted September 24, 2022 Share Posted September 24, 2022 I don't hate him. I just think he went in an utterly wrong direction after the scores that come before, undoubtedly also because of an incompetent director. crumbs and BB-8 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HunterTech 994 Posted September 24, 2022 Share Posted September 24, 2022 I'm willing to give Hooper some leeway, since I feel Yates really screwed over Desplat in terms of the kind of scores he could've given to the franchise (which I guess makes JNH a bit of an anomaly). bollemanneke and crumbs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameron007 43 Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 I agree, Yates was what drove the movies down. bollemanneke and ConorPower 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB-8 3,478 Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 16 hours ago, Cameron007 said: I agree, Yates was what drove the movies down. Yes, and there has been no improvement since the launch of the "Fantastic Beasts" franchise, which is now completely screwed up. Including the music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,349 Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 I'm surprised that first movie turned out as well as it did now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB-8 3,478 Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 18 hours ago, bollemanneke said: I'm surprised that first movie turned out as well as it did now. You mean HP1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,349 Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 No, FB1! HP1 is great. BB-8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,692 Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 The sign for me that the FB franchise is in trouble is the embarassingly tiny FANTASTIC BEASTS in the SoD logo. What WB actually wants is more Potter movies. I've never seen any of the FBs as they never appeared on Netflix (at least while I was with them) so I have no opinion as to whether the movies suck or not. Although I just saw Prime has a free '10 minute preview'... just make the damn movie Prime, it's been out long enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Trope 527 Posted November 12, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted November 12, 2022 I just finished my second complete listen through of all 7 CDs over 3 days (1 day per film) on my new headphones. Wow, these are truly brilliant scores, and the expansions allow JW to take the listener on an incredible musical journey. I believe that somewhere it was mentioned that the first section of the last track on the Prisoner of Azkaban score (Trailer) was written by someone other than John Williams. However, this was the first time I realised that the concluding statement of JW's family theme (tracked with Reunion of Friends from Chamber of Secrets?) has the stereo channels reversed. I never noticed this before! I wonder if it is like that in the actual trailer itself... Also the whole track is mastered much louder than anything else, making the opening synthetic orchestra/drum strikes even more obnoxious. Other than that slight hiccup (and the strange decision to include a portion of The Dementors Converge on the alternate Watching the Past track), I absolutely love this release. I was very impressed by Philosopher's Stone this time through, particularly the inventiveness of the children's suite and JW's masterful orchestrations. I enjoy how each movement in the suite focuses its attention on one particular section of the orchestra at a time, giving each a unique tone colour. crumbs, MrJosh, Holko and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,223 Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 7 minutes ago, Trope said: …the strange decision to include a portion of The Dementors Converge on the alternate Watching the Past track… Actually, that is part of the alternate as it was composed, conducted and recorded. Trope 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trope 527 Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 12 hours ago, JohnnyD said: Actually, that is part of the alternate as it was composed, conducted and recorded. Oh wow, so the version of Watching the Past which uses the Patronus Light chorus (in the main program) was a revision and not originally intended by JW? Does that mean both the Dementors Converge and Watching the Past were originally meant to have the same chaotic music for the patronus between them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,317 Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Trope said: Does that mean both the Dementors Converge and Watching the Past were originally meant to have the same chaotic music for the patronus between them? Correct! Crazy innit? bollemanneke and Trope 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Holko 9,526 Posted November 13, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted November 13, 2022 And I think we discovered that the revision is just Patronus Light (without the loops applied to the album version) and a separate brass WttP overlay, the same one also used sped up for the album Dementors Converge. And that Dementors Circle is likely an unused choral element for Dementors Converge's opening, since it gets reprised in a hurried form in Watching the Past! crumbs, Trope and bollemanneke 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trope 527 Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 19 hours ago, Trope said: I believe that somewhere it was mentioned that the first section of the last track on the Prisoner of Azkaban score (Trailer) was written by someone other than John Williams. However, this was the first time I realised that the concluding statement of JW's family theme (tracked with Reunion of Friends from Chamber of Secrets?) has the stereo channels reversed. I never noticed this before! I wonder if it is like that in the actual trailer itself... I found the trailer where the music is used and the portion of Reunion of Friends has the correct left and right channels, so it is only a mix-up on the CD track. enderdrag64 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,317 Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 Whoops! Oh well, I never listen to that track anyway 😛 My understanding is the elements provided by WB for POA were less than satisfactory, so I don't necessarily trust that whatever was provided to Mike was "accurate," so to speak. I'd love to see a standalone 3CD reissue of Azkaban someday, if all the correct elements are found and more of the film mix versions of cues can be presented (whether Williams' intent or not). Not to mention the alternates that may or may not have been recorded... enderdrag64 and Trope 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,795 Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 And the shawn cue… redishere and bollemanneke 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,367 Posted November 13, 2022 Author Popular Post Share Posted November 13, 2022 On 12/11/2022 at 10:16 AM, Trope said: (and the strange decision to include a portion of The Dementors Converge on the alternate Watching the Past track) The LLL track "Watching The Past (Alternate)" is John Williams' original intended version of this cue - it's the cue "7M4 Watching The Past" in its own track with nothing else. After it was recorded, it was decided to replace the ending with a new composition that used the "Window To The Past" theme. The LLL track "Watching The Past" is therefore the bulk of "7M4 Watching The Past" segueing into this newly recorded New Ending. As a side note, the brass part and the choir parts of this new ending were recorded separately, and the original soundtrack album contained one of the choir parts artificially extended with looping in its own track ("The Patronus Light"). The LLL track "The Dementors Converge (Film Version)" is the entire cue for the scene as-recorded - "6M5AN First Frozen Lake" in its own track with nothing else. This is what the film uses. For the original soundtrack album, they took 6M5AN and mucked with it; from 1:45-2:33 in that track ("The Dementors Converge") is a bunch of different stuff, including some of that 7M4 new ending again. We don't know if this hodgepodge was crafted only for the soundtrack album, or was intended to be used in the film but rejected. I don't think I've ever seen anyone break down exactly what makes up that hodgepodge... Trope, TSMefford, enderdrag64 and 2 others 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trope 527 Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 Does anybody know what the difference between the two Lumos! tracks is from the POA set? Are they simply different takes? Listening to them back to back, I can't aurally tell what the difference is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,349 Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 Yes, or different mixes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,317 Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 2 hours ago, Trope said: Does anybody know what the difference between the two Lumos! tracks is from the POA set? Are they simply different takes? Listening to them back to back, I can't aurally tell what the difference is. Just slightly different takes I believe. The film version is more "bouncy," for lack of a better musical term. There's mix differences too. I think the strings are more prominent in the film version. Trope 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 If you told me that the section of “Watching the Past (alternate)” that was replaced was actually a Close Encounters alternate, I’d believe you bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,692 Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 There's a certain point with alternates where I start to lose sight of their value if they're just subtly different takes of the same composition. But of course that's from a listening perspective - it might be that someone more musically inclined can tell the diference and finds it academically interesting. Plus the faction of fans that don't rest until they have basically every take of everything I usually keep them only either if they are markedly different or interesting, or if they represent album material I like. Or if it concerns a grail release with two not very big alternates, in which case, forget what I just said... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 Well the Watching the Past alternate section isn’t subtle, it’s a completely different piece of music, the kind of alternate I care about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,349 Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 I just had a thought: is Harry's theme in HP1 underused and overused in 2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 Does Harry have a theme in 1 and 2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 Some people call the Friends theme that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Disco Stu 15,495 Posted November 29, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted November 29, 2022 3 minutes ago, Holko said: Some people call the Friends theme that. IIIII'LL BEEEE THERE FOOOOR YOOOOOOOU Docteur Qui, Once, blondheim and 2 others 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Faleel 5,350 Posted November 29, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted November 29, 2022 Once, artguy360 and Docteur Qui 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,349 Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 Mike called it Harry's theme, so that's what it is to me now. I find his writing and analyses very interesting and revealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 Where did he call it that? I’m not calling you a liar, just curious. One of the more interesting aspects of the first three scores for me was what I always interpreted as scoring Harry’s different reactions to his magical world and not just giving him a thematic calling card. If Mike, who talks to John Williams, feels differently then I certainly would like to read about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 I think it's in his booklet for the first score. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 Ah, I will have to go back and check my liner notes bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artguy360 1,843 Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 Are we talking about Harry's Wondrous World? I've always taken it to be Harry's theme in that it is a theme for him experiencing the magical world much like I think of Window to the Past as a theme for Harry's loneliness as much as a theme for the memory of his parents. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mrbellamy 6,287 Posted November 30, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted November 30, 2022 Quote The theme for Harry is joyful and heroic in character, consisting of a flowing line followed by a short fanfare figure. It is related to Harry's friendship with Ron and Hermione and is used for moments of triumph such as the grand endings of "The Quidditch Match" and "Gryffindor Wins the House Cup" and the quiet conclusion of "Love, Harry." The theme is fully presented in "Harry's Wondrous World" where it is introduced by an opening unison statement of the main Hedwig "B" theme. I think ultimately the issue is always gonna be a little confused because the "Family" theme is also used for moments of personal growth or reflection for Harry, and underscoring bonding moments with his friends (Hermione's speech at the end of "The Chess Game" where she is literally speaking to Harry's personal integrity and naming friendship as a virtue). I've always identified both closely together without even really thinking about how they're categorized unless I'm logged onto JWFan lol Over the years I've kinda just felt one is Harry's Theme (Friendship) and the other is Harry's Theme (Family). They're ultimately summed up for me by their climaxes, with the former as he celebrates with Gryffindor and his achievements become one with his friends' achievements, and the latter as he realizes Hogwarts = home = Hogwarts, and family = friends = family. Which again just speaks to the subtly equivalent relationship between these themes imo. In my memory the line is drawn most deliberately at the beginning of COS with "Family" over the photo of his parents and "Friendship" as he flips the page to Ron and Hermione. bollemanneke, blondheim and Holko 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 It’s a wonderful theme regardless. Just goes to show how good music will work no matter what its intention originally was. All thoughts aside, Harry’s Wondrous World couldn’t feel more right. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,349 Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 Exactly. I think JW wanted to trigger emotions first and be intellectual second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 15 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: Exactly. I think JW wanted to trigger emotions first and be intellectual second. I’ll be honest, I think that is his MO most of the time Docteur Qui 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,692 Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 I'd venture to suggest that's what happens almost all the time. One can compose themes for specific characters or sentiments but if something just works... whatever I mean, there's no possible way that Hedwig's Theme is a theme for Hedwig. It's just JW's main theme and he thought that sounded a cool name on the album. Docteur Qui 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,044 Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 29 minutes ago, Richard Penna said: I'd venture to suggest that's what happens almost all the time. One can compose themes for specific characters or sentiments but if something just works... whatever I mean, there's no possible way that Hedwig's Theme is a theme for Hedwig. It's just JW's main theme and he thought that sounded a cool name on the album. Well, he originally wrote a much shorter "Hedwig's Theme" for the trailer, based purely on his mental imagery from the books—hadn't seen any film footage. He thought it evoked the snowy owl's flight and titled it accordingly. But it so effectively captured the broader magic and mystery of Harry's entry into the wizarding world that it ended up becoming the score's main theme. Docteur Qui and enderdrag64 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,350 Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 16 minutes ago, Datameister said: Well, he originally wrote a much shorter "Hedwig's Theme" for the trailer, based purely on his mental imagery from the books—hadn't seen any film footage. He thought it evoked the snowy owl's flight and titled it accordingly. But it so effectively captured the broader magic and mystery of Harry's entry into the wizarding world that it ended up becoming the score's main theme. Fansplaining Datameister 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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