Jurassic Shark 12,120 Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 A Guy Named @JoeinAR was there first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallguy 3,411 Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 On 6/1/2021 at 11:12 PM, Brundlefly said: It is not lost, the plane just merges much better with the surroundings now, while the Y-trail isn't that obvious any more, but it's still there. On 6/3/2021 at 3:20 AM, TownerFan said: The film had actually two different, but very similar keyarts of the poster (illustrated by the great John Alvin). The US poster doesn't have the truck: The international poster used in UK, France, Italy, and Spain has a different composite and the truck added: Yeah, I had the original one-sheet. (I might still have it.) The colors on the poster are lovely. The plane is painted and is recognizably an A-26. The connection between the title and the plane is very clear. The original album ruins this. Well, the CD and cassette covers did anyway. 5 hours ago, GerateWohl said: I think, I said it before, but Always seemed to me like Ghost version 0.1. Whatever Spielberg wanted to achieve with it was achieved better in Ghost. On the plus side, Always was there first and it had a Williams score. Yeah. That's why I never liked Ghost. 5 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: A Guy Named @JoeinAR was there first. It was. There's a nice Easter egg in Always. In the A Guy Named Joe Dorinda brags "I always come in on three wheels" and since she's flying a tail-dragger airplane she's saying she lands perfectly every time. In Always she has the same line. But since she's flying a tricycle gear plane she's admitting she's a crappy pilot. ("Oh, kinda perverse!" Pete replies.) I haven't been this excited for a new CD since The Rocketeer. I'm not sure there will be much new but it will be interesting and it will sound gorgeous. BrotherSound and Jurassic Shark 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,421 Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 I think that the parts of the film that are similar to Ghost are just one part of what's happening in Always. I think Spielberg was doing something else entirely that Ghost doesn't touch on at all, but I won't say anymore because it wasn't an observation I came up with on my own, but one I read in the new liner notes. I think the notes will open people's eyes up to the film and make them appreciate it more - at least that's what happened for me. BrotherSound 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerateWohl 4,408 Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 38 minutes ago, Jay said: I think that the parts of the film that are similar to Ghost are just one part of what's happening in Always. I think Spielberg was doing something else entirely that Ghost doesn't touch on at all, but I won't say anymore because it wasn't an observation I came up with on my own, but one I read in the new liner notes. I think the notes will open people's eyes up to the film and make them appreciate it more - at least that's what happened for me. Looking forward to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Incanus 5,722 Posted June 12, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 12, 2021 2 hours ago, Jay said: I think that the parts of the film that are similar to Ghost are just one part of what's happening in Always. I think Spielberg was doing something else entirely that Ghost doesn't touch on at all, but I won't say anymore because it wasn't an observation I came up with on my own, but one I read in the new liner notes. I think the notes will open people's eyes up to the film and make them appreciate it more - at least that's what happened for me. Did Mike Matessino again pen the liner notes for this release? I really enjoy his writing which usually offers new and fresh insights or points of view to both the score and the film. E.g. Empire of the Sun and War of the Worlds essays are wonderful in that regard. I have noticed that Mike has been moving away from writing much musical analysis in a very detailed track-by-track fashion on these releases and letting the music speak for itself. Of course the liner notes speak about the thematics and musical relations since those are often very integral part of how Williams writes his music but there is a broader handling of the music and I have noticed that Mike is nowadays trying to set each score in its historical context in terms of Williams' career, which I find a welcome point of view. Jay, crlbrg and crumbs 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post GerateWohl 4,408 Posted June 12, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 12, 2021 36 minutes ago, Incanus said: Did Mike Matessino again pen the liner notes for this release? I really enjoy his writing which usually offers new and fresh insights or points of view to both the score and the film. E.g. Empire of the Sun and War of the Worlds essays are wonderful in that regard. I have noticed that Mike has been moving away from writing much musical analysis in a very detailed track-by-track fashion on these releases and letting the music speak for itself. Of course the liner notes speak about the thematics and musical relations since those are often very integral part of how Williams writes his music but there is a broader handling of the music and I have noticed that Mike is nowadays trying to set each score in its historical context in terms of Williams' career, which I find a welcome point of view. I hope that Maurizio is going to do a podcast episode on this with Mike. Looking forward to this. Chewy, BrotherSound and Once 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 12 hours ago, GerateWohl said: I think, I said it before, but Always seemed to me like Ghost version 0.1. Whatever Spielberg wanted to achieve with it was achieved better in Ghost. On the plus side, Always was there first and it had a Williams score. Ghost is a fantastic film it's full of humor love excitement and some damn good acting. I cannot say the same for always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,421 Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 I really liked John Goodman and Holly Hunter's acting in Always. It's just that Richard Dreyfus and (... looks up his name) Brad Johnson greatly disappoint next to them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 4,681 Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 2 hours ago, Jay said: I really liked John Goodman and Holly Hunter's acting in Always. It's just that Richard Dreyfus and (... looks up his name) Brad Johnson greatly disappoint next to them I like Dreyfus in roles where he doesn't laugh much. Otherwise, it gets grating quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallguy 3,411 Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 I loved everybody but Brad Johnson. (Including Dreyfus.) Too bad. I mean, that was an opportunity on a silver platter and he just wasn't up to it. I did see him in a direct to video sequel to The Philadelphia Experiment and he wasn't terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,421 Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 Richard Dreyfus was fantastic in Jaws, Close Encounters, What About Bob.... Something about his performance in Always rubbed me the wrong way. But maybe if I watch it again I'll have a different opinion. Brad Johnson though... Yea. Squandered opportunity is a good descriptor. Marg Helgenberger was cute too, even though her character was one-note. Audrey Hepburn was also kinda weird in this movie. Admittedly, I've only seen her in Breakfast at Tiffany's and this... But she was great in that and weird in this IMO 1977 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallguy 3,411 Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 Not to beat the dead horse: Who has Spielberg "discovered"? He's obviously great with established talent. (Dreyfus was "established" after American Graffiti.) Do we count Drew Barrymore? Had that "Hanks" fellow done anything of note? This "Cruise" fellow? Um... This, er... "Robert Shaw"? Getting far afield of the music, but who SHOULD have been Ted? How established was Van Johnson in A Guy Named Joe? First name that comes to mind is Tim Robbins. Now I'm thinking of Ted Baker as the kid from either Hudsucker Proxy or Bull Durham and I'm cursing the movie gods. OTOH: Hell, it seems weird to think of it now, but other than the unknown Brad Johnson wasn't this one of Goodman's first big screen roles after his debut on Rosanne? Back to the music: Wait, can this NOT be listened to on Spotify / Amazon / etc? You poor bastards. Buy this! BUY THIS NOW! Apropos of nothing: There is a gorgeous A-26 in museum near my house. I have yet to see a PBY Catalina in person. I HAVE flown IN a B-25 like in A Guy Named Joe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,421 Posted June 13, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 13, 2021 51 minutes ago, Tallguy said: Not to beat the dead horse: Who has Spielberg "discovered"? He's obviously great with established talent. (Dreyfus was "established" after American Graffiti.) Do we count Drew Barrymore? Had that "Hanks" fellow done anything of note? This "Cruise" fellow? Um... This, er... "Robert Shaw"? I never said "discovered", I said "one of Spielberg's greatest strengths is his eye for casting" which is absolutely true. Yes Drew Barrymore was great in ET but so was Henry Thomas. And the older kids. Ditto for Heather O'Rourke in Poltergiest. Jonathan Ke Quan in Indy 2. All the kids in The Goonies. Christian Bale in Empire of the Sun. River Phoenix in Indy 3. Charlie Korsmo in Hook. Joseph Mazzello and Ariana Richards in Jurassic Park. Etc. As for adults, how about John Malkovich in Empire of the Sun, Liam Neeson and Ralph Fiennes in Schindler's List, Vince Vaughn in The Lost World, Matthew McConaughey, Djimon Hounsou and Chiwetel Ejiofor in Amistad, Matt Damon, Vin Diesel, and Giovanni Ribisi in Saving Private Ryan, Amy Adams in Catch Me If You Can, Diego Luna and Zoe Saldana in The Terminal, Daniel Craig in Munich, Tom Hiddleston and Benedict Cumberbatch in War Horse - all cast by Spielberg before they were big stars. Yavar Moradi, Brundlefly, Edmilson and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallguy 3,411 Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 7 hours ago, Jay said: I never said "discovered", I said "one of Spielberg's greatest strengths is his eye for casting" which is absolutely true. Yes Drew Barrymore was great in ET but so was Henry Thomas. And the older kids. Ditto for Heather O'Rourke in Poltergiest. Jonathan Ke Quan in Indy 2. All the kids in The Goonies. Christian Bale in Empire of the Sun. River Phoenix in Indy 3. Charlie Korsmo in Hook. Joseph Mazzello and Ariana Richards in Jurassic Park. Etc. As for adults, how about John Malkovich in Empire of the Sun, Liam Neeson and Ralph Fiennes in Schindler's List, Vince Vaughn in The Lost World, Matthew McConaughey, Djimon Hounsou and Chiwetel Ejiofor in Amistad, Matt Damon, Vin Diesel, and Giovanni Ribisi in Saving Private Ryan, Amy Adams in Catch Me If You Can, Diego Luna and Zoe Saldana in The Terminal, Daniel Craig in Munich, Tom Hiddleston and Benedict Cumberbatch in War Horse - all cast by Spielberg before they were big stars. OK. That answers my question. So Johnson is kind of an anomaly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,421 Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 I'd say so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croweyes1121 14 Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 On 6/12/2021 at 11:13 PM, Jay said: Richard Dreyfus was fantastic in Jaws, Close Encounters, What About Bob.... Something about his performance in Always rubbed me the wrong way. But maybe if I watch it again I'll have a different opinion. Brad Johnson though... Yea. Squandered opportunity is a good descriptor. Marg Helgenberger was cute too, even though her character was one-note. Audrey Hepburn was also kinda weird in this movie. Admittedly, I've only seen her in Breakfast at Tiffany's and this... But she was great in that and weird in this IMO FWIW, I think Dreyfuss nailed what he was supposed to do with the role. I’d give the film another chance. The arc of Pete’s character is to become selfless and let go of the perceived control he never really had - over himself, his life, his death, etc. I’ve always found it so sadly profound that he takes these awful chances every time he flies, and then after Dorinda tells him that she could understand his flying how he does if he was “doing it to save somebody’s life…anybody’s life”. And then the scene where he saves Goodman’s character ends with he himself dying. The rest of the film deals with his other bad tendencies - holding on too tight, and his unwillingness to let Dorinda be free to love and give her heart to someone else despite his being gone. It’s a selfish but very human impulse to hang on — one he finally learns to shed by the time the movie is over. I guess what I’m saying is…his character was meant to be a bit self-servingly obnoxious. That was the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,421 Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 Sure, but it doesn't make it enjoyable to watch. It doesn't have a enough of that Spielberg magic to get you from the start to the payoff Croweyes1121 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallguy 3,411 Posted June 15, 2021 Share Posted June 15, 2021 It's interesting to me how a movie's context can change so much of the film. What I mean is, for example, Terminator 2 is obviously structured assuming that you don't know anything about the film except that you saw the first one. All of the story beats in the first act play on that expectation. Arnold is the Terminator again and there is another wiry guy sent back to stop him. Then the film flips that on it's head and the audience loses their minds. EXCEPT the film was marketed within an inch of its life that Arnold is the GOOD guy this time around. If you saw in 1991 that surprise was most likely not there. Always OTOH clearly knows that you have come to this movie either because you know the film it's based on or you know the plot: Pilot is killed and comes back as a ghost. IIRC they try to kill Pete three times in the beginning of the film. "Oh, he dies here. No, wait... Here. Here?" But I knew nothing about any of that. I knew Spielberg, Dreyfus, airplanes. SOLD! And a lead character like Dreyfus has a certain amount of script immunity so I "knew" he was never in any danger. So when his plane flat out explodes it was actually quite a shock to me. 8 hours ago, Jay said: Sure, but it doesn't make it enjoyable to watch. It doesn't have a enough of that Spielberg magic to get you from the start to the payoff Hmm. Watching some clips of the film in another thread I remembered how gorgeous I thought (and think) this film is. Dreyfus also made his comeback playing jerks and he built a lot of his later career playing less likable / sympathetic parts. This was one of if not his very last stab at playing a charming quirky leading man. And I loved him in this. I do think this film went against the grain on a lot of Spielbergian expectations. It wasn't as fantastic as an Indiana Jones and it wasn't as important as an Empire of the Sun. Jay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mahler3 478 Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 ClassicFM are going to premiere a track from this beautiful album tomorrow at a time between 11:30am and 12noon (GMT) https://www.classicfm.com/radio/shows-presenters/bill-turnbull/ Jay and Chewy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,421 Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 Great news! mahler3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amer 2,131 Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 Starting now... https://www.classicfm.com/radio/shows-presenters/bill-turnbull/ Chewy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy 2,409 Posted June 19, 2021 Author Share Posted June 19, 2021 It is time to zoom in and guess the track titles! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amer 2,131 Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 Wow. It’s a premiere of the unused ‘End Credits’ The themes weaves in between with variations of ‘Smoke Gets in your Eyes’ song and other themes. I love it. Kinda reminds me of what’s happened with the unused ‘End Credits’ of Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chewy 2,409 Posted June 19, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted June 19, 2021 For those who missed it, I recorded it: Chewy · Always End Credits (ClassicFM) Yavar Moradi, Bayesian, Dr. Know and 16 others 7 1 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,542 Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 01 - Intimate Conversations 02 - Premonitions* 03 - Saying Goodbye 04 - Pete in Heaven 05 - The Return 06 - The Old Timer's Shack 07 - Follow Me 08 - Seeing Dorinda 09 - Ted's Heroics and Pete's Aura* 10 - 11 - 12 - 13 - 14 - 15 - 16 - The ? (Film Version) 17 - The Old Timer's Shack (Alternate)** 18 - 19 - The Rescue Operation () 20 - Among the Clouds () ? Just going by @crumbs' iso score video titles, descriptions and lengths, this is not a strict chrono program. Chewy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy 2,409 Posted June 19, 2021 Author Share Posted June 19, 2021 Judging by what's written on the disc, the new release most likely has 21 tracks: Amer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,421 Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 This is one of my favorite tracks of film music in a long while. It's gorgeous. Williams does more with the song melody than The Platters ever did. Great choice for the Classic FM preview! Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,722 Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 1 hour ago, Chewy said: For those who missed it, I recorded it: Chewy · Always End Credits (ClassicFM) Thank you @Chewy! And wow that is a lovely piece with nice arrangements of Smoke Gets In Your Eyes. It almost feels like there are two distinct halves in the end credits, the first with Williams' music book ending one orchestral version of the Smoke Gets In Your Eyes that ends at 3:52 on the above recording and then the second part that opens with the piano rendition of the Smoke Gets In Your Eyes and ends with that lovely James Thatcher horn motif and ethereal "heaven music". Amer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,421 Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 Anyone recognize that rendition of the epic Jim Thatcher horn solo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallguy 3,411 Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 Ahhh that's a nice way to start my morning. Although I have to say I'm not crazy about the first rendition of Smoke and I think it diminishes the impact of the second (which is much sweeter). But by all means, I should get very critical about what's wrong with a 32 year old piece of unused music. The rest of it was a lovely rendition of the film's themes without being a needle drop. When was the last time before this that a Williams end title had new arrangements of a film's themes? He pretty much stopped after Raiders didn't he? Or do I not listen to the right Williams scores? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 Now that is some classic Williams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciarlese 252 Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 2 hours ago, Chewy said: It is time to zoom in and guess the track titles! Am I wrong to say that this is not a new recording nor a previously unreleased score? 🧐 Jurassic Shark and Yavar Moradi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,120 Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 Shh, the general public wouldn't understand that. Chewy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,349 Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 So this end credits suite is very surprising. I've only heard fragments because I want to retain some surprise for the release proper, but it sounds totally different to the partially used verison in the film. Does this mean there's actually 2 versions of the end credits? One with Williams' arrangements of Smoke Gets In Your Eyes and another version with only Williams material? Fascinating! I'm a bit surprised by how many OST tracks Mike has reused for this release. The Return in particular, which begins with the cue for Pete's death, but is placed after Pete In Heaven on this assembly. The alternate album version of Old Timer's Shack in the main program, rather than the film version, being another. BrotherSound and Chewy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,421 Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 1 hour ago, ciarlese said: Am I wrong to say that this is not a new recording nor a previously unreleased score? 🧐 Ha! I didn't even notice. Yea, that's weird wording! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,421 Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 2 hours ago, Tallguy said: When was the last time before this that a Williams end title had new arrangements of a film's themes? He pretty much stopped after Raiders didn't he? Or do I not listen to the right Williams scores? Just sticking from 77-89: Star Wars, Close Encounters, 1941, Empire Strikes Back, Raiders, ET, Return of the Jedi, Temple of Doom, SpaceCamp, and Witches of Eastwick all had new arrangements of the film's themes written for their end credits. Empire and Jedi obviously reuse some Star Wars end title music, but not enough to make them not count IMO. Superman is very similar to the Main Title arrangement, though I don't know which was conceived of first. I'd speculate the End Title arrangement came first and later the Main Title was written to be similar to it. Empire of the Sun is not based on anything in the score (the "Liberation" cue came later and replaced the "Freedom March" cue JW wrote originally). Last Crusade retreads the Raiders March and the Scherzo film cue, but the grail theme section has new development. That leaves Jaws 2, The Fury, Dracula, Heartbeeps, Monsignor, The River, The. Accidental Tourist, and Born on the Fourth of July for someone else to describe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Guernsey 2,295 Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 56 minutes ago, Jay said: Just sticking from 77-89: Star Wars, Close Encounters, 1941, Empire Strikes Back, Raiders, ET, Return of the Jedi, Temple of Doom, SpaceCamp, and Witches of Eastwick all had new arrangements of the film's themes written for their end credits. Empire and Jedi obviously reuse some Star Wars end title music, but not enough to make them not count IMO. Superman is very similar to the Main Title arrangement, though I don't know which was conceived of first. I'd speculate the End Title arrangement came first and later the Main Title was written to be similar to it. Empire of the Sun is not based on anything in the score (the "Liberation" cue came later and replaced the "Freedom March" cue JW wrote originally). Last Crusade retreads the Raiders March and the Scherzo film cue, but the grail theme section has new development. That leaves Jaws 2, The Fury, Dracula, Heartbeeps, Monsignor, The River, The. Accidental Tourist, and Born on the Fourth of July for someone else to describe... Easy enough to describe Jaws 2, with its slightly unusually two part end titles. The second half is easy enough, a fun concert style reworking of the catamaran sailing music (one of my favourite obscure William themes I’d say) but the first half is, I believe, an entirely new fanfare theme that isn’t derived from any other theme in the rest of the score. A nicely triumphant, if slightly OTT way to end, especially compared to the more wistful version of out to sea used as the basis for the original Jaws end credits. I wonder how the original Jaws would have ended if it had a modern, post Star Wars style 5 plus minutes of end credits. Hmmm… Jay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,382 Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 Accidental Tourist has a sprightly arrangement of the main theme. The Phantom Menace and AOTC also have original end credits, they were just reused as concert arrangments as well. 4 hours ago, ciarlese said: Am I wrong to say that this is not a new recording nor a previously unreleased score? 🧐 It is a unreleased cue, which is score, not source music, or a song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,421 Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 13 minutes ago, Permanent Waves said: The Phantom Menace and AOTC also have original end credits, they were just reused as concert arrangments as well. Yea, but he was asking about end credits before Always, not after Always. 13 minutes ago, Permanent Waves said: It is a unreleased cue, which is score, not source music, or a song. The point is that it's not a "new recording" - it's a previously unreleased (and unused) recording, and the entire score is not an "unreleased score", this is one previously unreleased cue from a score that did have a release. ciarlese 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Faleel 5,382 Posted June 19, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 19, 2021 The end credits is unreleased score But yes, you are correct, that description is like this... https://i.imgur.com/VnQ2CNW.mp4 https://imgur.com/VnQ2CNW Jay, Chewy and Holko 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BrotherSound 2,248 Posted June 20, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 20, 2021 8 hours ago, Jay said: Superman is very similar to the Main Title arrangement, though I don't know which was conceived of first. I'd speculate the End Title arrangement came first and later the Main Title was written to be similar to it. So, it’s a bit complicated: 1M1 Main Title appears to have been written first, as the End Credits borrow a couple fairly large sections directly from 1M1. There’s instructions to copy bars from 1M1 on the second row of this page: But then the revised New 1M1 - Part II Main Title borrows material directly from the end credits, basically the last minute and a half, except for the final two bars which are unique to New 1M1 - Part II. A little hard to see, but ‘End Credits’ has been scratched out at the top and ‘New 1M1 MT’ written in, because the entire page was reused: Anyway, to veer things back on topic: it occurred to me that Always, with its blend of new age-y gossamer (like the middle of ‘Fortress of Solitude’) and expansive Americana (‘Leaving Home’, natch) may be more closely related to the score of Superman than one would suspect. crlbrg, That_Bloke, Edmilson and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,349 Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 On 6/19/2021 at 9:29 PM, Holko said: 01 - Intimate Conversations 02 - Premonitions* 03 - Saying Goodbye 04 - Pete in Heaven 05 - The Return 06 - The Old Timer's Shack 07 - Follow Me 08 - Seeing Dorinda 09 - Ted's Heroics and Pete's Aura* 10 - 11 - 12 - 13 - 14 - 15 - 16 - The ? (Film Version) 17 - The Old Timer's Shack (Alternate)** 18 - 19 - The Rescue Operation () 20 - Among the Clouds () ? Just going by @crumbs' iso score video titles, descriptions and lengths, this is not a strict chrono program. That listing of The Rescue Operation at track 19 is interesting! The OST track should be track 12, so this might be some type of alternate. Assuming only tracks 2, 9 and 15-21 are non-OST, this is my best guess for the rest of the tracklist, assuming the bonus cues are in chronological order. Guesses in red: 01 - Intimate Conversations (OST track, combines two cues, unclear if chronological) 1:26 02 - Premonitions* Judging by the artwork, this track is 2+ minutes long. There's only ~33 secs of unreleased music here... maybe Ted Meets Al is included here?) 2:01 03 - Saying Goodbye (OST track) 3:15 04 - Pete in Heaven (OST track) 6:44 05 - The Return (OST track, combines two non-chronological cues) 2:31 06 - The Old Timer's Shack (OST track) 4:55 07 - Follow Me (OST track) 1:18 08 - Seeing Dorinda (OST track) 3:35 09 - Ted's Heroics and Pete's Aura* Unreleased bus driver and wishbone cues, and maybe Ted Meets Al based on the track duration 3:25 10 - Pete and Dorinda (OST track, combines two versions of same cue) 3:18 11 - Promise to Hap (OST track) 2:30 12 - The Rescue Operation (OST track) 5:15 13 - Among the Clouds (OST track, combines the final two cues of the film, written to overlap. The latter cue was revised with the following track) 8:35 14 - Dorinda Solo Flight (OST track) 3:17 15 - End Credits (Alternate) Unused version with Williams arrangement of Smoke In Your Eyes? 6:20? 16 - The Death of Pete (Film Version) Film Version of Pete's death cue 1:11? 17 - The Old Timer's Shack (Alternate)** Film Version Alternate 4:46 18 - Follow Me Alternate that leaked in bootleg 1:16 19 - The Rescue Operation Alternate? I thought the different sections of music in the film were tracked, but maybe there's an alternate cue that went unused 5:15? 20 - Among the Clouds (?) Unsure what this is -- maybe an alternate version of the cue Among the Clouds?? There isn't enough room for a combo track of Among the Clouds with Dorinda Solo Flight 4:30? 21 - End Credits (Film Version) The film credits has alternate music to the clip released yesterday 4:11? Track time estimate = 80:34 (so my estimates are wrong somewhere...) Clearly there's some educated guesswork here, but I'm surprised every OST track has (seemingly) been ported across! If track 16 is the film version of Pete's Death, it's curious that it wasn't placed between tracks 3 & 4 (as it appears in the film). Ditto the film version of Old Timer's Shack, which is relegated to the bonus section. Maybe Williams preferred his album versions of those cues. Not sure where the short Al Meets Ted cue has been placed (possibly integrated with track 9, given the duration). I'm guessing OST Among The Clouds has been placed before OST Dorinda Solo Flight, presenting Williams' two versions of the final cue back-to-back (effectively giving the score two climaxes). I figured one of these (the unused earlier version) would be relegated to the bonus section. Assuming the OST tracks are 1:1 identical to the previous release, that means the two versions of Pete and Dorinda haven't been separated (they crossfade in the OST track), so there won't be a clean ending to the film version or clean opening for the alternate (making a chrono edit impossible). Similar deal with the crossfaded cues in Intimate Conversations and The Return. Bit of a bummer but I guess space constraints were a factor (and it looks like this will be a fully packed CD!) Guess all will be revealed in a few days! Looking forward to the official tracklist and hearing more samples. Can't wait to pick this up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,542 Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 4 minutes ago, crumbs said: That listing of The Rescue Operation at track 19 is interesting! The OST track should be track 12, so this might be some type of alternate. 100%, since the length is in the line below it and there are already alternates listed before it. Never heard the OST but I didn't really feel the strict chrono score as is worked all that well based on your iso videos, so I probably won't be unhappy about some of this playing around and keeping combinations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,349 Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 Yeah I'm sure the complete score will work better with combined tracks and a more 'curated' presentation. No issue with combo tracks if it makes for a better listening experience (even if it's non-chronological), but I'm generally not a fan of the way Williams crossfades cues that weren't intended to overlap (ie, the two versions of Pete and Dorinda here, which I think would've been just as effective with a pause between each version). Holko 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,421 Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 Anyone else notice the catalog number on the spine in the pic? https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4O-77AWQAEm3th?format=jpg&name=large Dr. Rick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,349 Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 LLL-1527? Dr. Rick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallguy 3,411 Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 Didn't I hear an interview with Matessino for Close Encounters that he's adopted the template that if its an existing track he'll keep the name of the original track, but if it's a new or altered track he'll give it a different name? Mostly for legal purposes but also for us poor saps that still remember (and own!) ALL the versions. Or is Among the Clouds (alternate) a different enough title? 6 minutes ago, Jay said: Anyone else notice the catalog number on the spine in the pic? https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4O-77AWQAEm3th?format=jpg&name=large It didn't jump out at me. So why is that significant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,248 Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 1 hour ago, crumbs said: 20 - Among the Clouds (?) Unsure what this is -- maybe an alternate version of the cue Among the Clouds?? There isn't enough room for a combo track of Among the Clouds with Dorinda Solo Flight 4:30? I’ve got a hunch what this might be: I don’t think there was a true alternate cue written, but bizarrely, the entirety of that stunning horn solo was originally written doubled by piano and piccolo (two octaves higher). So, maybe there’s an alternate take with that original instrumentation? crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,421 Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 13 minutes ago, Tallguy said: Didn't I hear an interview with Matessino for Close Encounters that he's adopted the template that if its an existing track he'll keep the name of the original track, but if it's a new or altered track he'll give it a different name? Mostly for legal purposes but also for us poor saps that still remember (and own!) ALL the versions. Or is Among the Clouds (alternate) a different enough title? Yes if the contents are identical to an OST track (even if he rebuilt it from scratch), he keeps the same name. He doesn't ever use an album track title for different contents. And yea, adding a parenthetical = new track title. 13 minutes ago, Tallguy said: It didn't jump out at me. So why is that significant? The rest of the 1520s came out in late 2019 / early 2020 They are currently in the 1560s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,349 Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 21 minutes ago, BrotherSound said: I’ve got a hunch what this might be: I don’t think there was a true alternate cue written, but bizarrely, the entirety of that stunning horn solo was originally written doubled by piano and piccolo (two octaves higher). So, maybe there’s an alternate take with that original instrumentation? Oh wow, that would be quite something! Strikes me as the type of thing they at least tried for a take or two before going with the horn solo. Fingers crossed you're right! 23 minutes ago, Tallguy said: Didn't I hear an interview with Matessino for Close Encounters that he's adopted the template that if its an existing track he'll keep the name of the original track, but if it's a new or altered track he'll give it a different name? Mostly for legal purposes but also for us poor saps that still remember (and own!) ALL the versions. Or is Among the Clouds (alternate) a different enough title? I think he discussed it on E.T., where he kept a lot of track titles from the previous expansion despite not being a fan of the track names they used (I think his preference is to use the original cue titles as track names). But yeah, for legal purposes, they have to change the track title if the content of the track itself is altered (even something as mundane as separating cues that were previously overlapped, like several tracks on the TLW expansion). On Among The Clouds specifically, it's a little confusing because it's both a cue title (for the second last cue of the film proper) and an OST track title (which actually combines two different cues into the same track, one of which wasn't used in the film). Hypothetically, if Mike wanted to present just the cue Among the Clouds by itself (without the other cue appended), ironically he wouldn't be able to name that track Among the Clouds due to the existing OST title. 6 minutes ago, Jay said: The rest of the 1520s came out in late 2019 / early 2020 They are currently in the 1560s That's interesting! So this release must have been assembled back in 2019 and suffered a pretty hefty delay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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