Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (Disney Records Original Soundtrack Album) - NO FILM SPOILERS!

[Taikomochi 1,136]

4 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Isn't this a bit too dark and brooding for a map scene? They used to be scored in a more upbeat way IIRC.

There was that wilted, anxious statement of the Raiders March for the one map transition in Crystal Skull when they moved to the Amazon. This doesn’t seem that tonally out of step with that.

[Bellosh 3,419]

@Edmilson

 

don't know why but this 2 second bit reminded me of 'The Patriot'. 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Isn't this a bit too dark and brooding for a map scene? They used to be scored in a more upbeat way IIRC.

 

I mean, without getting into spoilers, the film is pretty dark and brooding. It ain't exactly a "fun" adventure movie. The second map cue occurs after some

Spoiler

pretty heavy shit happens.

 

It's not too dissimilar to the second map cue in KOCS anyway.

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

Some more perspective themes

 

Archimedes Theme (?)

 

Prologue to Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny 4:08 - end (possible concert rendition)

 

 

Archimedes' Tomb 1:13 - 1:46

 

 

[King Mark 3,631]

I have a specific question. Does the "Dial of Destiny" theme (Prologue 4.08 -End) have unreleased variations in the film?

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3 minutes ago, King Mark said:

I have a specific question. Is the "Dial of Destiny" theme (Prologue 4.08 -End) have unreleased variations in the film?

 

My feeling is the Dial had a few moments of interesting orchestration, but melodically nothing really clicked to me. Some oscillating strings or whatever, but they permeate the whole score.

 

If the point of reference is something like the Grail theme, they're on different planets.

 

Spoiler

It seems like a missed opportunity maybe, given all the fetch quests required before the characters can execute the Dial's power. Musically Williams could've approached this in a fragmented way.

 

[Damien F 1,742]

2 minutes ago, King Mark said:

I have a specific question. Does the "Dial of Destiny" theme (Prologue 4.08 -End) have unreleased variations in the film?

@King Mark It might have a slightly longer version in the end credits. I could be wrong. I haven't had a chance to compare the end credits with the Prologue track. Take a look at my post in the "Score in the film" thread.

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

I'm beginning to think between motifs and themes and what not, there could be over a dozen new identities in this score. It is more dense and elaborate than initially appears!

 

----

 

Some more perspective themes

 

Macguffin/Dial Theme 1

 

Prologue to Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny 3:43 - 4:03

 

 

 

Polybius Cipher 0:40 - 0:49

 

 

[King Mark 3,631]

someone recorded the end credits it's the same as Prologue

2 minutes ago, Damien F said:

@King Mark It might have a slightly longer version in the end credits. I could be wrong. I haven't had a chance to compare the end credits with the Prologue track. Take a look at my post in the "Score in the film" thread.

 

[Edmilson 7,469]

10 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

@Edmilson

 

don't know why but this 2 second bit reminded me of 'The Patriot'. 

 

 

It reminded me a bit of the trumpet motif that plays in The Patriot whenever Mel Gibson remembers his violent past with the native americans.

 

8 minutes ago, crumbs said:

 

I mean, without getting into spoilers, the film is pretty dark and brooding. It ain't exactly a "fun" adventure movie.

Geez... First Bond, now Indy also gets the Nolan-ized "dark and disturbing" aesthetic.

[Damien F 1,742]

6 minutes ago, King Mark said:

I have a specific question. Does the "Dial of Destiny" theme (Prologue 4.08 -End) have unreleased variations in the film?

 

There isn't any great 'Map Room: Dawn' style unreleased version of that theme.

[artguy360 1,844]

I re-ordered the OST with the ASM version of Helena's theme as the opening track. I think it works as a concert piece dripping with golden-age vibes. I moved the orchestral Helena's theme to after the Prologue and put the full Raider's March at the very end.

[King Mark 3,631]

1 minute ago, Damien F said:

 

There isn't any great 'Map Room: Dawn' style unreleased version of that theme.

Ok,that's a relief

[Bellosh 3,419]

2 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

It reminded me a bit of the trumpet motif that plays in The Patriot whenever Mel Gibson remembers his violent past with the native americans.

 

yup that!

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2 minutes ago, artguy360 said:

I re-ordered the OST with the ASM version of Helena's theme as the opening track. I think it works as a concert piece dripping with golden-age vibes. I moved the orchestral Helena's theme to after the Prologue and put the full Raider's March at the very end.

 

Even after only watching the film once, I can say the Raiders March would work far better as the album closer than Helena's Theme (either version). The orchestral version belongs directly after the film's final cue!

 

I don't mind the overture of her theme at the start of the Prologue, but the violin version would probably work even better.

[King Mark 3,631]

The OST is so short it's easy to memorise it before seeing the movie

[Damien F 1,742]

Even taking into account the unreleased music from the 1944 scenes and the New York scenes, I don't think this OST is anywhere near as poor of a representation of the score as the OSTs to KOTCS and TROS were.

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1 minute ago, Damien F said:

Even taking into account the unreleased music from the 1944 scenes and the New York scenes, I don't think this OST is anywhere near as poor of a representation of the score as the OSTs to KOTSC and TROS were.

 

Agreed. I'm frustrated by the huge chunks missing from 1944 and New York. But overall everything in the film where I went "I want that!" is on here, albeit microedited in places.

 

The bazaar source from Morocco would've been nice to have though.

[Damien F 1,742]

1 minute ago, crumbs said:

 

Agreed. I'm frustrated by the huge chunks missing from 1944 and New York. But overall everything in the film where I went "I want that!" is on here, albeit microedited in places.

 

The bazaar source from Morocco would've been nice to have though.

 

It is crazy he decided to leave empty space on the album rather than filling it with more cues from 1944 and New York.

[Brónach 1,302]

12 minutes ago, King Mark said:

Ok,that's a relief

 

no this is sad

[King Mark 3,631]

Well yeah in the  sense that theme should have been more developed

[Bellosh 3,419]

prob my favorite use of the B theme of all time (until Sinister Visitors gets the proper release)

 

 

[King Mark 3,631]

but that's lifted from Last Crusade (unreleased Packet from Dad)

[Bellosh 3,419]

totally different than Indy's Home

 

i see your edit, i don't think so to be honest

 

@King Mark  this one? i still think it sounds different enough

 

 

[King Mark 3,631]

yeah I didn't quite place it at first but that's it. At least we have a similar quote in c.d. quality sound now.

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12 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

prob my favorite use of the B theme of all time (until Sinister Visitors gets the proper release)

 

 

 

It's lovely... but :28 is a great example of the temp track love that permeates the score, and it constantly takes you out of the movie.

 

Was obviously temped with this cue from KOCS:

 

 

[p0llux 398]

God I love that Helena's Theme is front and center. It literally opens the album. For those struggling with this theme, I really hope it's multiple uses in this score help cement it in your minds. It is a top theme.

 

That said, it might be a while(or never) before we hear from Williams again in the film department. So enjoy this and really take it all in.

[Bellosh 3,419]

1 minute ago, crumbs said:

 

It's lovely... but :28 is a great example of the temp track love that permeates the score, and it constantly takes you out of the movie.

 

Was obviously temped with this cue from KOCS:

 

 

 

yeah i knew that from kotcs.  gotta say i don't mind it all that much.  it's a highlight from KOTCS for me 

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Just now, Bellosh said:

 

yeah i knew that from kotcs.  gotta say i don't mind it all that much.  it's a highlight from KOTCS for me 

 

At least it made the OST this time

 

[Bellosh 3,419]

3 minutes ago, p0llux said:

God I love that Helena's Theme is front and center. It literally opens the album. For those struggling with this theme, I really hope it's multiple uses in this score help cement it in your minds. It is a top theme.

 

 

her theme is lovely when the beginning piano parts of her suite get used like this

[Damien F 1,742]

3 minutes ago, p0llux said:

God I love that Helena's Theme is front and center. It literally opens the album. For those struggling with this theme, I really hope it's multiple uses in this score help cement it in your minds. It is a top theme.

 

 

When I listened to the OST yesterday, I was surprised how often her theme appeared compared to Indy's theme. Having now seen the movie, that makes sense. She really is the driving force of the plot. However, the unreleased statements of Indy's theme during the tuk tuk chase would have balanced it out a little on the album had they been included.

[King Mark 3,631]

The loud brass passage at 3.29 of Prologue is lifted from somewhere in KoTCS

[Brónach 1,302]

it's a mess

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2 minutes ago, Damien F said:

 

When I listened to the OST yesterday, I was surprised how often her theme appeared compared to Indy's theme. Having now seen the movie, that makes sense. She really is the driving force of the plot. However, the unreleased statements of Indy's theme during the tuk tuk chase would have balanced it out a little on the album had they been included.

 

I could count on one hand the amount of times Indy's theme appears in the film after the prologue!

 

I appreciate that they took the David Arnold/Bond/Casino Royale approach here.

[Bellosh 3,419]

i'm so late to this discovery (since i only listened to that original concert upload of helena's theme once or twice, didn't like the sound quality)

 

but 2:45-2:49 is a beautiful nod to marion's theme

 

 

[Tydirium 1,167]

I’m honestly still not entirely convinced that that’s an intentional reference to Marion.

[Jurassic Shark 12,083]

It's definitely lifted from Marion's theme.

[p0llux 398]

Oh it's 1000% from Marion's Theme.

[Brónach 1,302]

it's a mess!

[Tydirium 1,167]

It’s the same notes, but I’m just not convinced Williams sat there and consciously thought “I’m going to reference Marion’s theme here.”

[Romão 2,274]

I think it is absolutely intentional

[Jurassic Shark 12,083]

5 minutes ago, Tydirium said:

It’s the same notes, but I’m just not convinced Williams sat there and consciously thought “I’m going to reference Marion’s theme here.”

 

If it had been parts of the love theme from The Terminal that was quoted, your post would have made sense.

[Edmilson 7,469]

Me too. Sneaky JW always enjoyed making these kinds of references. Remember the Imperial March disguised in Anakin's Theme?

 

Although in Anakin's case that reference made sense, now this... is JW implying that Indy and Helena are going to fornicate? 

[p0llux 398]

It's 2000% intentional. John Williams is the smartest composer in Hollywood. Everything is intentional for him, especially for Indiana Jones franchise where everything is literally a homage to something in the past or an in house joke to something.

[Schilkeman 964]

3 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Me too. Sneaky JW always enjoyed making these kinds of references. Remember the Imperial March disguised in Anakin's Theme?

 

Although in Anakin's case that reference made sense, now this... is JW implying that Indy and Helena are going to fornicate? 

Yes, that's what it means  Christ, there's some weird takes in this thread.

[Damien F 1,742]

Spoiler for the end of the movie:

 

Spoiler

Helena is responsible for bringing Marion back to Indy's apartment so JW might have been thinking about that when writing the theme.

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,083]

8 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Me too. Sneaky JW always enjoyed making these kinds of references. Remember the Imperial March disguised in Anakin's Theme?

 

Although in Anakin's case that reference made sense, now this... is JW implying that Indy and Helena are going to fornicate? 

 

The track accompanies the scene where "Helena" is revealed to be Marion in disguise. 

 

Anybody else thinks the march in track 17 sags a bit? Kind of bottom heavy?

[Indianagirl 298]

So I’m spending most of my day in the airport and air today. I forgot my ear pods and I just realized the score came out today and not Friday. Does it mean I have a problem when I immediately went to the little technology shop and bought new overpriced EarPods so I can listen today while I wait around in airport? 

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

Of course it is intentinal!

 

Other composers do this too. 

 

Ilia's theme suite from Star Trek 1979 references the main theme within it at 2:42.

 

 

Tara's theme main title from Gone With The Wind references Rhett Butler's theme within it at 2:31.

 

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Damien F said:

Spoiler for the end of the movie:

 

From a dramatic standpoint, this makes perfect sense. It's only a fleeting reference in her theme, which is apt considering the film's narrative.