Original Star Wars albums now available in Spatial Audio on Tidal and Apple Music

[aj_vader 534]

These Dolby Atmos releases show the state that the Jedi tapes must be in. These are all mono centre channel rips which highlight the 'data' missing from Jedi's transfers compared with A New Hope. 

 

Main Titles - A New Hope

 

Tie Fighter Attack - A New Hope 

 

 

Finale - Empire Strikes Back

 

 

Return of the Jedi

 

 

It sounds like they've maybe put reverb over the tape transfers to try and mask the issues. It sounds like aggressive mp3 compression as well. 

[Holko 9,529]

Could it be faked atmos somehow?

[aj_vader 534]

9 minutes ago, Holko said:

Could it be faked atmos somehow?

Of course, definitely! but who knows? 

[Holko 9,529]

So this is a film cue and still faked. Then we can't be sure about the missing tape. Or maybe that's why they faked the rest, they had to fake Jabba, might as well be consistent.

[BrotherSound 2,242]

11 minutes ago, Holko said:

So this is a film cue and still faked. Then we can't be sure about the missing tape.

The revised ‘Return of the Jedi’ (4M4R Jabba’s End) was recorded as part of the album sessions, though, along with the concert arrangements and end credits.

[Faleel 5,359]

1 minute ago, BrotherSound said:

The revised ‘Return of the Jedi’ (4M4R Jabba’s End) was recorded as part of the album sessions, though, along with the concert arrangements and end credits.

Wasn't Jabba the Hutt recorded in that session?

[BrotherSound 2,242]

Just now, A Farewell to Kings said:

Wasn't Jabba the Hutt recorded in that session?

Well, yeah: it’s one of the concert arrangements.

[crumbs 14,318]

I always figured the 2018 ROTJ Demaster was just a slightly tweaked version of the 2016 Sony album master transfer. Maybe they replaced a few film cues with a multi-track source (those were apparently located after 1997) but it appears the music recorded for the album only exists on that album master now.

 

And I doubt the album master was more than stereo, hence potentially faked atmos in those tracks.

[Jay 37,372]

On 16/08/2021 at 2:36 PM, Jay said:

Recorded on the special album recording day:

• 03 Luke And Leia (4:43) {Brother and Sister}
• 04 Parade Of The Ewoks (3:24) {Parade Of The Ewoks}
• [2:47-end] of 05 Han Solo Returns (At The Court Of Jabba The Hutt) (1:20) {Jabba The Hutt}
• 07 The Forest Battle (4:01) {The Battle In The Woods}
• 10 The Return Of The Jedi (5:00) {4M4 Rev}
• [1:58-end] of 11 Ewok Celebration and Finale (5:59) {End Credits}

TOTAL TIME - 24:27

 

The 1993 4-CD anthology, 1997 2-CD set, all video games, basically everything we know about, all used the 1983 album master (if not a rip of the CD itself) for these 6 cues. 

 

To our knowledge, the original elements that those cues were recorded to have never been located again after the album master was completed.  Rumor has it that the original element might have been sent to the makers of the documentary "From Star Wars To Jedi: The Making of a Saga", because the English version of Lapti Nek appeared in that doc, but I have no idea if Lapti Nek was recorded on the album day or not >shrug<

 

Fun fact: because the clean opening of the End Credits cue is not available, the end credits track on the 1997 2-CD set actually begins with The Empire Strikes Back's end credits opening before seguing into the ROTJ recording as soon as it can.  And we're now going on 40 years since anyone has heard the majority of the Jabba The Hutt concert arrangement recorded that day.

 

We don't know precisely what element(s) from the main scoring sessions have survived, but ones that sound better than what was used for the 1993 and 1997 sets definitely exist. 

 

I cannot recall off the top of my head if there was evidence when the 2018 sets came out if the tracks that are entirely made up of material from the main session (01 Main Title [The Main Story Continues], 02 Into The Trap, 08 Rebel Briefing, 09 The Emperor) were taken from something different from the album master or not, but if the new Atmos mixes of those tracks are different than the others than that would make sense.

[Tallguy 3,401]

It's OK. Any day now the Mike M....  Ah. Whew. I just can't.

[1977 1,743]

4 hours ago, Jay said:

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Jay said:

Fun fact: because the clean opening of the End Credits cue is not available, the end credits track on the 1997 2-CD set actually begins with The Empire Strikes Back's end credits opening before seguing into the ROTJ recording as soon as it can.  

 

That SW: Corellian Edition CD supposedly contains the end credits from RotJ, does it include Victory Celebration in front? The track title is End Title (From Star Wars Episode VI).

[Chewy 2,393]

7 hours ago, aj_vader said:

These Dolby Atmos releases show the state that the Jedi tapes must be in. These are all mono centre channel rips which highlight the 'data' missing from Jedi's transfers compared with A New Hope. 

 

Fortunately, some tracks from Return of the Jedi are legit surround mixes!

 

Here are some examples of things I can't remember hearing that well (or at all) in the stereo mix:

 

01 Main Title (The Story Continues)

 

 

02 Into the Trap

 

 

09 The Emperor

 

 

 

So we can assume all the other tracks come from the original stereo album master, and so required a fake Atmos mix for this new release.

 

This doesn't mean that the original session tapes are damaged or lost for those cues! Maybe they just thought in 2017/2018 that their album transfers had already the film mixes and sounded good enough, who knows  

[Jay 37,372]

1 hour ago, JTWfan77 said:

That SW: Corellian Edition CD supposedly contains the end credits from RotJ, does it include Victory Celebration in front? The track title is End Title (From Star Wars Episode VI).

 

Surely its the same TESTB/ROJ hybrid edit like on the 1997 ROTJ 2-CD set, just without the Victory Celebration part.

[MrJosh 892]

1 hour ago, Chewy said:

 

Fortunately, some tracks from Return of the Jedi are legit surround mixes!

 

Here are some examples of things I can't remember hearing that well (or at all) in the stereo mix:

 

01 Main Title (The Story Continues)

 

 

02 Into the Trap

 

 

09 The Emperor

 

 

 

So we can assume all the other tracks come from the original stereo album master, and so required a fake Atmos mix for this new release.

 

This doesn't mean that the original session tapes are damaged or lost for those cues! Maybe they just thought in 2017/2018 that their album transfers had already the film mixes and sounded good enough, who knows  

Whoa, that synth on The Emperor is nuts. 

[DangerMotif 1,038]

On 5/5/2023 at 12:14 AM, DangerMotif said:

wow these sound amazing, never picked up on a weird theremin like sound in the emperors theme before.

Makes a big difference in a good way

[Jay 37,372]

Oh that synth theremin is so cool!

[Faleel 5,359]

Doesn't that synth show up in Shuttle Tydirium Approaches Endor?

 

 

 

[MrJosh 892]

oh yeah, sure does. 

[Tallguy 3,401]

I just went back and listened to the original The Emperor. I can almost hear it start to go up, but I can't hear that crazy sine wave.

[Faleel 5,359]

6 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

I just went back and listened to the original The Emperor. I can almost hear it start to go up, but I can't hear that crazy sine wave.

 

[BrotherSound 2,242]

2 hours ago, MrJosh said:

02 Into the Trap

 

Timpani heaven! 😍

[voltisubito 42]

The ARP synth in The Empire Strikes Back is missing in this new mix - not only (most noticeably) in The Magic Tree, but in other cues too.

[phbart 609]

On 05/05/2023 at 4:41 PM, Chewy said:

Those atmos mixes are legit!

 

 

Impressive!

 

Is this actual discrete multi-channel audio, like L-C-R? Or did you use an audio software to extract the center channel from a 2-channel stream?

[Manakin Skywalker 4,897]

3 hours ago, phbart said:

Impressive!

 

Is this actual discrete multi-channel audio, like L-C-R? Or did you use an audio software to extract the center channel from a 2-channel stream?

 

This is from the Atmos mixes (which is what this thread is for) which are in 5.1 surround sound.

[phbart 609]

Thanks for clarifying. 

[Faleel 5,359]

On 10/05/2023 at 5:59 PM, MrJosh said:

oh yeah, sure does. 

Pretty sure this song uses something very similar as well:

 

 

[phbart 609]

On 05/05/2023 at 6:19 PM, Chewy said:

 

It's definitely fixed, you're probably still listening to the old version. The left-channel annoying mix from the 2018 version is completely gone and the edit was corrected.

 

2018 version :

 

 

New version:

 

 

If you turn off the spatial audio option, that botched edit will be there. Now if you turn it on, the botch is gone. Also, even if you turn off the Dolby Atmos option from your device but keep the spatial audio from the Apple Music app turned on, you'll still have the botch-free edit. That's... interesting.

[phbart 609]

Why didn't they provide a new proper master for the regular 2 channel mix, instead of the "old" 2018 master? Even a 2-channel downmix of the atmos version sounds better and more balanced here.

[Groovygoth666 670]

11 minutes ago, phbart said:

Why didn't they provide a new proper master for the regular 2 channel mix, instead of the "old" 2018 master? Even a 2-channel downmix of the atmos version sounds better and more balanced here.

You're asking why the company that put out the 2018 "remasters" didn't create new stereo mixes after already going to the trouble of releasing them a few years prior? Possibly to save face and not admit that the "remasters" were botched/badly made. Cost saving maybe? They've already paid to get new mixes in 2018, then they've potentially paid someone again to create the new Dolby Atmos versions, so why pay that same person/team to create new stereo mixes from the atmos ones when there's recent stereo mixes out there?

 

It's important to remember that Disney/Lucasfilm have finite resources, and right now those companies are both in financial flux, so going to the trouble of creating these Atmos versions from the scans made in 2018 could be seen as a easy money maker to the people in charge, but to suggest putting together new stereo mixes again so soon might be that extra cost that's easy to just pass off as "well we already did those" to those people in charge.

[crumbs 14,318]

48 minutes ago, Groovygoth666 said:

It's important to remember that Disney/Lucasfilm have finite resources, and right now those companies are both in financial flux, so going to the trouble of creating these Atmos versions from the scans made in 2018 could be seen as a easy money maker to the people in charge, but to suggest putting together new stereo mixes again so soon might be that extra cost that's easy to just pass off as "well we already did those" to those people in charge.

 

I don't even see the financial benefit of spending money on Atmos mixes. Maybe if it was a "value add" to doing the Demaster project in the first place, but seems like a lot of work for little benefit 5 years later.

 

OTOH, if the Demasters are so damn profitable they can throw money at Murphy for Atmos mixes, why the hell aren't they throwing money at Mike/JW for expansions?

[Groovygoth666 670]

9 hours ago, crumbs said:

 

I don't even see the financial benefit of spending money on Atmos mixes. Maybe if it was a "value add" to doing the Demaster project in the first place, but seems like a lot of work for little benefit 5 years later.

 

OTOH, if the Demasters are so damn profitable they can throw money at Murphy for Atmos mixes, why the hell aren't they throwing money at Mike/JW for expansions?

Oh I agree that to us it's difficult to see the financial benefit of these new releases (maybe the TROS Atmos release sold really well?). Disney does seem to prefer putting out the OST programs though. So potentially whoever convinced those in charge that it was worth doing 5.1 mixes might have only been allowed to go with the OST programs of the OT, seeing as the PT got left out. And as to why this and not expansions, would it be cheaper to pay Murphy to create new mixes for 3 films OST's he's already worked on or paying someone else to potentially build everything from the ground up and with more music?

[Holko 9,529]

Dumbasses.

[phbart 609]

6 hours ago, Groovygoth666 said:

You're asking why the company that put out the 2018 "remasters" didn't create new stereo mixes after already going to the trouble of releasing them a few years prior? Possibly to save face and not admit that the "remasters" were botched/badly made. Cost saving maybe? They've already paid to get new mixes in 2018, then they've potentially paid someone again to create the new Dolby Atmos versions, so why pay that same person/team to create new stereo mixes from the atmos ones when there's recent stereo mixes out there?

 

It's important to remember that Disney/Lucasfilm have finite resources, and right now those companies are both in financial flux, so going to the trouble of creating these Atmos versions from the scans made in 2018 could be seen as a easy money maker to the people in charge, but to suggest putting together new stereo mixes again so soon might be that extra cost that's easy to just pass off as "well we already did those" to those people in charge.

I totally agree that both companies have finite (meaning "limited") resources. Same thing for their skills for audio engineering, apparently.

[Groovygoth666 670]

On 26/05/2023 at 10:23 AM, phbart said:

I totally agree that both companies have finite (meaning "limited") resources. Same thing for their skills for audio engineering, apparently.

Well you get what you pay for. It's so bizarre how the 2018 "remasters" turned out considering they were done by Shawn Murphy who should know better. Then again look at the Disney Legacy Collection, how many of those releases have botched editing and music that was on the OST missing? It seems quality control is not Disney's biggest priority when it comes to these sorts of releases, which is frustrating considering the people involved in putting them together in the first place.

[phbart 609]

On 04/06/2023 at 10:49 PM, Groovygoth666 said:

Well you get what you pay for. It's so bizarre how the 2018 "remasters" turned out considering they were done by Shawn Murphy who should know better. Then again look at the Disney Legacy Collection, how many of those releases have botched editing and music that was on the OST missing? It seems quality control is not Disney's biggest priority when it comes to these sorts of releases, which is frustrating considering the people involved in putting them together in the first place.

Yes!

 

I remember how dissapointed I was when they released The Lion King in 2014. Boy, that CD sounds utterly BAD! The leaked recording sessions that I got a couple of years prior to this release are still my go-to version to listen.

[Faleel 5,359]

2 hours ago, phbart said:

The Lion King [legacy collection]. Boy, that CD sounds utterly BAD!

[Jurassic Shark 12,083]

On 01/07/2023 at 1:04 AM, phbart said:

Yes!

 

I remember how dissapointed I was when they released The Lion King in 2014. Boy, that CD sounds utterly BAD! The leaked recording sessions that I got a couple of years prior to this release are still my go-to version to listen.

 

Buy it... on the impressive 2014 "Legacy Collection" album from Disney if you desire a superior new mix of the scores and songs as they appeared in the film, especially with an impressive and fresh perspective on the important Hans Zimmer score.

 

https://www.filmtracks.com/titles/lion_king.html

[Giftheck 917]

I love how their 'avoid it' does mention the earlier leaks... but grossly overstates what's actually on those leaks 🤣 I've never even seen or heard half of the stuff they claim is in these leaks (no evidence of this 'not-song Circle of Life' that apparently stems from a never-heard Academy Promo, for instance) - the only things that come immediately to mind are alternative sections for 'Sunrise at Pride Rock' and 'Mufasa Dead', and a completely-unreleased-anywhere alternative to 'Scar's Dinner' that is still only heard in the film.

 

My personal preference is the 2014 set because of some of the additional material completely absent from the 1994 mix (such as the missing chorals in King of Pride Rock) but I do understand why some prefer those 1994 mixes.

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

I tend to prefer the 2014, but I like both mixes enough to keep them on my phone.

[phbart 609]

On 12/07/2023 at 1:03 PM, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Buy it... on the impressive 2014 "Legacy Collection" album from Disney if you desire a superior new mix of the scores and songs as they appeared in the film, especially with an impressive and fresh perspective on the important Hans Zimmer score.

 

https://www.filmtracks.com/titles/lion_king.html

I really don't know what to say about that. No offense to the reviewer, but I'm pretty sure he/she didn't get the "proper" leaked version. The 2014 Legacy edition is hissy as hell! I mean... hiss in a 1994 recording from a major studio? 

[Faleel 5,359]

14 hours ago, phbart said:

I really don't know what to say about that. No offense to the reviewer, but I'm pretty sure he/she didn't get the "proper" leaked version. The 2014 Legacy edition is hissy as hell! I mean... hiss in a 1994 recording from a major studio? 

It's your equipment.

 

Attack of the Clones is 2002 and hissy as hell.

[Giftheck 917]

Back on topic, I'm kinda surprised that it seems the Prequels haven't been done in spatial format yet. Mind you, there's a lot of awkward edits they'd have to alter.

[ThePenitentMan1 744]

53 minutes ago, Giftheck said:

Back on topic, I'm kinda surprised that it seems the Prequels haven't been done in spatial format yet. Mind you, there's a lot of awkward edits they'd have to alter.

 

Simple solution: Get Mike Matessino to make Prequel expansions, and release that in spatial audio.