Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (Score in the film) - SPOILERS ALLOWED!

[Jay 39,429]

Maybe the version recorded for the prologue was tracked into the airplane scene

[Jay 39,429]

I just made a new discovery, more of a correction I guess:

 

I missed before that "Polybius Cipher" appears before "Helena's Tutorial" in the GEMA list, so now I believe that "Polybius Cipher" is heard in the film from 1:29:30-1:33:31, and that Helena's Tutorial is an INSERT that was given a unique name, and appears from 1:30:42-1:31:23 within that.

 

So for the OST track, he began it with the clean opening of the insert and then continued from its end into the rest of Polybius Cipher.

 

 

Along these same lines, I think that "Indy Recognizes Professor Schmidt" is a new opening to "Doing Helena's Bidding" that got its own name, and same with "Rahim Arrives" being a new opening for "You Don't Need Me?" that got its own name.

 

I think it's easy to tell where "Indy Recognizes Professor Schmidt" ends and "Doing Helena's Bidding" begins (in the film and OST track), but I had a very hard time deciding where I think "Rahim Arrives" ends and "You Don't Need Me?" begins.  They play from 1:00:34-1:01:37 if anyone wants to weigh in with their thoughts (my best guess is that 1:01:02 is where the switchover happens)

[KittBash 294]

I did a quick search and didn't see this mentioned yet so....
For those who like the Analysis of Frank Lehman it appears he's updated his “A guide to the Musical themes of Indiana Jones” to include Dial of Destiny. 

 

https://franklehman.com/indiana-jones-themes/

 

 

[Gabriel Bezerra 399]

On 06/09/2023 at 7:48 PM, Bellosh said:

 

 

1:03:55-1:03:58  ------> is :15-:18 of The Rocket Sled from KOTCS (i'm almost sure it's not Whirl Thru Academe)

 

1:03:59-1:04:11 ------> is :30-:40 of The Rocket Sled from KOTCS

 

1:04:23- 1:04:36 ------> is somewhere between 1:02-1:27 of Escape From Venice, I can't match it exactly, gonna need help on this...... but it's all Venice.  Interestingly enough that motif transitions really smoothly back into Helena's theme.  Love it.

 

1:05:11 -1:05:12 is more Escape from Venice

 

1:05:22-1:05:23 ------> is 2:11-2:12 of Whirl Thru Acadame 

 

1:05:37-1:05:40 ------> is something from KOTCS, i can't pinpoint it, it's literally all starting to sound the same to me.

 

1:05:49-1:05:55 ------> 2:10-2:15 of Escape from Venice

 

1:33:51-1:33:53 ------> is the nazi theme from The Last Crusade, trying to think of the cue that would have that bit that closely resembles it, any takers?

 

2:04:38-2:05:13 ------> 3:11-3:43 of The Spell of the Skull from KOTCS

 

2:07:20-2:07:23 ------> :34-:36 of Ants!  (someone with better ears might want to double check this, as Ants! has a few moments with these swirling strings, but i think i chose the right one)

 

2:10:22-2:10:31 ------> 3:20-3:28 of The Spell of the Skull. 

 

2:11:09-2:11:19 ------> 2:51:2:59 of Map/Out of Fuel from ToD

 

some of these might be off by a second or two because it seems JW kinda dragged out some of the notes or shortened them in DoD, but for the most part it's the same.

 

I'll keep adding when I notice another one.

 

before you put any of these in spreadsheet, do double check them please.

I could swear that I heard 5m42 The Waterfall (KOTCS) but just omitting Marion's theme when Indy tries to help Helena inside the german plane...

[Bellosh 3,912]

2 hours ago, Gabriel Bezerra said:

I could swear that I heard 5m42 The Waterfall (KOTCS) but just omitting Marion's theme when Indy tries to help Helena inside the german plane...

 

what timestamp in Dial of Destiny are you referencing?  If you don't have the movie and just wanna try to remember what exact part, I can try to find it.

 

there's a slight buildup that seems to be original underscore to Dial just before Indy goes to help Helena when the nazi is hanging on her leg and then this plays:

 

 

[Gabriel Bezerra 399]

26 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

 

what timestamp in Dial of Destiny are you referencing?  If you don't have the movie and just wanna try to remember what exact part, I can try to find it.

 

there's a slight buildup that seems to be original underscore to Dial just before Indy goes to help Helena when the nazi is hanging on her leg and then this plays:

 

I'm waiting for the movie to get here digitaly, so I'm really going from memory alone, I think it's right before that scene... I just remember that it was on the plane already in the past, and I kept expecting for Marion's theme to show up. The Waterfall is one of my favourites from KOTCS... so maybe I heard things.

[Doo_liss 6,423]

5 minutes ago, Gabriel Bezerra said:

I'm waiting for the movie to get here digitaly, so I'm really going from memory alone, I think it's right before that scene... I just remember that it was on the plane already in the past, and I kept expecting for Marion's theme to show up. The Waterfall is one of my favourites from KOTCS... so maybe I heard things.

No, I definitely remember there being a cue that had a Marion's theme originally, but without it.

 

Could have also been the opening of the full Jungle Chase?

[Bellosh 3,912]

1 hour ago, Gabriel Bezerra said:

I'm waiting for the movie to get here digitaly, so I'm really going from memory alone, I think it's right before that scene... I just remember that it was on the plane already in the past, and I kept expecting for Marion's theme to show up. The Waterfall is one of my favourites from KOTCS... so maybe I heard things.

 

i'm not doubting you, when I made my list I also thought I heard bits of the Jungle Chase, which makes sense since KOTCS is quoted so much. 

 

It must be well before Indy realizes Helena is on the plane though.  I'm gonna let the scene play in the background while I work and maybe I'll catch it.

 

edit: yeah i'm hearing nothing in the plane in ancient greece

 

ONLY thing it could possibly be is 2:09:14-2:09:18 but it sounds so vague, to me at least, and if thats what you're talking about after a viewing in the theater....then you got some amazing ears, my friend!

 

The Jungle Chase might be in the tuk tuk sequence.  I was losing my mind keeping up with all the quotes from KOTCS and TLC

[Brando 2,162]

You’re not referring to the 2 instances of the Jungle Chase being quoted during the opening sequence right?

[Bellosh 3,912]

17 hours ago, Brando said:

You’re not referring to the 2 instances of the Jungle Chase being quoted during the opening sequence right?

 

1944 opening sequence or opening tuk tuk sequence?

 

edit: Okay I found some Jungle Chase in the 1944 sequence!  and it is MOST definitely the part that's right before Marion's theme

 

13:59-14:10 in the movie:

 

is the first 8 seconds here (it seems it's extended in DoD)

 

 

 

 18:36-18:47 of the movie is 2:16-2:30ish. ---- again these cues are either shortened or extended in Dial

 

 

 

also there seems to be more KOTCS when Basil is about shoot the nazi, Weber. starts at 19:13 for those you playing at home.

[Edmilson 8,920]

What are all the non-Indy quotes in the score? So far I caught just three: Spyders (Minority Report) and The Intersection Scene(War of the Worlds) during the NY chase scene (before Pulse of the City) and The Conveyor Belt (Attack of the Clones) during the second part of the tuk tuk chase that JW unfortunately left off the OST.

[Doo_liss 6,423]

8 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

What are all the non-Indy quotes in the score? So far I caught just three: Spyders (Minority Report) and The Intersection Scene(War of the Worlds) during the NY chase scene (before Pulse of the City) and The Conveyor Belt (Attack of the Clones) during the second part of the tuk tuk chase that JW unfortunately left off the OST.

Didn't someone find Anakin Crawling from ROTS?

[Darth Crossfader 577]

I think The Ferry Scene can be heard at some point too, but I might be misremembering

[Edmilson 8,920]

JW probably liked WotW so much he quoted it in two Indy movies in a row! 

[Bellosh 3,912]

19 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

The Intersection Scene(War of the Worlds) during the NY chase scene (before Pulse of the City)

 

is this the part where Indy is calling 911 after seeing his colleagues dead?  I thought I heard something from WotW there --- if not, yeah, we got more WotW here

[Doo_liss 6,423]

2 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

 

we got more WotW here

see nobody cares..

 

[LB Makes Stuff 276]

2 hours ago, Edmilson said:

What are all the non-Indy quotes in the score? So far I caught just three: Spyders (Minority Report) and The Intersection Scene(War of the Worlds) during the NY chase scene (before Pulse of the City) and The Conveyor Belt (Attack of the Clones) during the second part of the tuk tuk chase that JW unfortunately left off the OST.

I think there’s a Close Encounters-y quote when Sallah rescues Indy.

[Andy 5,152]

I have to listen to the whole thing again, but my radar detected some 1941 style dialogue accents and “build-ups” that recall the “Sub Commander” cue.  May not be a direct quote, but definitely made my ears perk up with familiarity. 

[Foxfan 134]

Is this film finally coming to Blu-ray? Missed the theatrical window and don't want to spend $25 on a digital copy.

[Luke Skywalker 1,939]

16 minutes ago, Foxfan said:

Is this film finally coming to Blu-ray? Missed the theatrical window and don't want to spend $25 on a digital copy.

You can wait oner or two more months and watch it on disney+, if you have it.

[Foxfan 134]

5 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said:

You can wait oner or two more months and watch it on disney+, if you have it.

True.. although the audio tends to get neutered on Disney + (The Mouse pandering to the masses needing a flat dynamic range for watching with laptop speakers).

 

I was watching the first four films when they turned up on Disney + but switched to my Crystal Skull Blu-ray because the flattened sound during the nuclear blast sequence was so bad.

 

Seriously Disney, let users turn on dynamic range compression themselves without ruining it for everybody that still has a decent sound system!

[Doo_liss 6,423]

27 minutes ago, Foxfan said:

True.. although the audio tends to get neutered on Disney + (The Mouse pandering to the masses needing a flat dynamic range for watching with laptop speakers).

 

I was watching the first four films when they turned up on Disney + but switched my Crystal Skull Blu-ray because the flattened sound during the nuclear blast sequence was so bad.

 

Seriously Disney, let users turn on dynamic range compression themselves without ruining it for everybody that still has a decent sound system!

They probably got too many complaints that people couldn't hear the dialogue, or that the loud parts were too loud, and the quiet parts too quiet.

[Gurkensalat 350]

On 18/9/2023 at 8:13 PM, Edmilson said:

What are all the non-Indy quotes in the score? So far I caught just three: Spyders (Minority Report) and The Intersection Scene(War of the Worlds) during the NY chase scene (before Pulse of the City) and The Conveyor Belt (Attack of the Clones) during the second part of the tuk tuk chase that JW unfortunately left off the OST.

 

The Battle of Syracuse reminds me very much of some action music from The Lost World, but I don't know if this is a quote. In general I am surprise of this many similarities to older, unrelated soundtracks. It would be interesting to know if they were a deliberate choice of Williams to incorporate them into his probably last score as a kind of summary of his life work or if it is just unconscious bubbling up of those ideas during the composing. Or even a sign of failing creativity although this would seem strange since he composed one of his best concert works just before this score. 

[Edmilson 8,920]

11 hours ago, Gurkensalat said:

The Battle of Syracuse reminds me very much of some action music from The Lost World, but I don't know if this is a quote.

I don't think the Syracuse music is that similar to The Lost World. Both employ a lot of percussion, but the Syracuse cue is more, say, ancient, as in Greco-Roman (filtered through classic Hollywood's lens) ancient. I feel this is Williams way of paying tribute to Rosza and the other ancient epic scores from the past. 

 

TLW's percussion, on the other hand, is more primal and wild, like evoking a time before human civilization where large, ferocious beasts ruled the Earth. 

[Doo_liss 6,423]

2 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

I don't think the Syracuse music is that similar to The Lost World. Both employ a lot of percussion, but the Syracuse cue is more, say, ancient, as in Greco-Roman (filtered through classic Hollywood's lens) ancient. I feel this is Williams way of paying tribute to Rosza and the other ancient epic scores from the past.

 

 

More North though.

[Luke Skywalker 1,939]

The battle of syracusse has a timpani rythm similar as the opening of the lost world theme. Just that.

[Tom 5,137]

I found the Battle of Syracuse to be the freshest action music to be written (by anyone) in the last several years.  

[LB Makes Stuff 276]

I agree, it’s really fun to me. It’s action music that’s supporting the sequence, not just there as noise. It is the initial thing that reveals that we ain’t in 1939 after all.

[Luke Skywalker 1,939]

Its great

[Cameron1138 34]

Yeah, I wasn't a huge fan of that track when I listened to it at first before seeing the film because it didn't sound like the typical Indy action piece I expected, but after hearing it in context that makes sense and I love it.

[Bellosh 3,912]

JW handing Mangold Battle of Syracuse on a lunch break after rehashing 25 KOTCS cues like

 

[Brando 2,162]

1 hour ago, Bellosh said:

JW handing Mangold Battle of Syracuse on a lunch break after rehashing 25 KOTCS cues like

 

This meme has been well used on the Internet the past couple of days, and this is also a great addition

[Alex 2,887]

On a serious note... it does seem weird he would suddenly churn out something like Battle of Syracuse after what he did for the prologue.

[Cameron1138 34]

39 minutes ago, Alex said:

On a serious note... it does seem weird he would suddenly churn out something like Battle of Syracuse after what he did for the prologue.

I assume in both cases he was just writing the sort of tracks he was asked for.

[crumbs 14,870]

1 hour ago, Alex said:

On a serious note... it does seem weird he would suddenly churn out something like Battle of Syracuse after what he did for the prologue.

 

Not to mention he wrote at least 3 versions of it!

[Bellosh 3,912]

as much as I love Battle of Syracuse, it still sounds like something JW could write in his sleep.  that's more or less a comment on how good he is.

[Damien F 1,773]

I get the impression it was business as usual for him while writing the action cues except for The Battle of Syracuse where he decided to lean into the golden age style of swords and sandals scores. It probably wasn't too difficult or even innovative for him but wasn't as by-the-numbers as the other action cues in the score. The Battle of Syracuse is an awesome track.

[Bellosh 3,912]

i keep telling you --- The Airport/Battle of Syracuse/Centuries Join Hands is one of JW's best 3 tracks in a row in a long time!

 

[Edmilson 8,920]

It would've been even better if Through the Portal had been released and placed alongside these three cues 

[LB Makes Stuff 276]

I wish that had made it over “Ploybius Cypher” to be honest. Like, the whole cluster with the brass is soooo much better sounding in “Through the Portal” than in “Ploybius Cypher”.

[Darth Crossfader 577]

On 19/09/2023 at 2:52 AM, Andy said:

I have to listen to the whole thing again, but my radar detected some 1941 style dialogue accents and “build-ups” that recall the “Sub Commander” cue.  May not be a direct quote, but definitely made my ears perk up with familiarity. 

 

It's a direct quote during the prologue, IIRC

[TolkienSS 466]

On 27/09/2023 at 2:47 PM, Alex said:

On a serious note... it does seem weird he would suddenly churn out something like Battle of Syracuse after what he did for the prologue.

 

You say this like the movie wasn't recut loads of times and didn't need to have significant score chunks redone, which were probably rerecorded temp.

[crumbs 14,870]

Large chunks of the Prologue were almost certainly temp track re-records.

 

A little disappointing, but I get it. The man was 90 and wanted to focus his priorities elsewhere, which yielded pieces like Helena's Theme. Considering the alternative was Chamber of Secrets 2.0 (a few new themes paired with mostly Ross adapted music) I'm perfectly happy with what we got.

 

And as the cue list revealed, there were lots of patches and rewrites. For all we know JW's original cues were totally new music.

[Damien F 1,773]

If reusing existing cues for the prologue meant he could focus his time and energy for tracks like The Battle of Syracuse, I think that's an acceptable trade-off.

[crumbs 14,870]

Exactly. And I'd pay a handsome price to hear what he wrote for V1 and V2 of Battle of Syracuse. *cough Disney Records cough*

 

Clearly he devoted more energy to the parts that inspired him the most. No surprise most people cite that third act as the film's best.

[LB Makes Stuff 276]

Fingers crossed we get a session leak very soon (2024/2025). I do want to hear every ounce of music from that final act without any edits to them. (I’d also especially like to see if “Whip at a Gunfight” is actually that Super Bowl cue that wasn’t used.)

[Holko 10,231]

45 minutes ago, crumbs said:

And as the cue list revealed, there were lots of patches and rewrites. For all we know JW's original cues were totally new music.

While rewatching the movie I noticed a lot of places where quotes come in in a very jarring way with little to no effort in matching or transitioning tempos etc. I don't even care if the original cues had quotes too, I just hope that these cases are all patches and there are more coherent cues hidden underneath.

[crumbs 14,870]

49 minutes ago, LB Makes Stuff said:

Fingers crossed we get a session leak very soon (2024/2025). I do want to hear every ounce of music from that final act without any edits to them. (I’d also especially like to see if “Whip at a Gunfight” is actually that Super Bowl cue that wasn’t used.)

 

I'd totally forgotten that! You're right, I don't think this music appears anywhere in the final film.

 

 

[Not Mr. Big 4,739]

4 hours ago, LB Makes Stuff said:

Fingers crossed we get a session leak very soon (2024/2025). I do want to hear every ounce of music from that final act without any edits to them. (I’d also especially like to see if “Whip at a Gunfight” is actually that Super Bowl cue that wasn’t used.)

Fingers crossed I get a million dollars

[Alex 2,887]

I just need his original intention for the entire tuk tuk chase. There is a lot of fantastic (original) unreleased stuff in the film.