What's a score you wished John Williams did?

[mrbellamy 6,338]

On 26/06/2023 at 6:44 PM, Marian Schedenig said:

The Book Thief?

 

Lowest budgeted movie he's scored since Rosewood 

[JTN 2,234]

Too bad Williams didn’t score at least one more Jurassic Park film. I’m sure he would’ve gone down some interesting route for JP3. 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,714]

On 10/07/2023 at 12:20 AM, mrbellamy said:

Lowest budgeted movie he's scored since Rosewood 

 

... and it looks like it.

It's a terribly cheap-looking film.

[filmmusic 1,896]

On 10/07/2023 at 2:20 AM, mrbellamy said:

 

Lowest budgeted movie he's scored since Rosewood 

Rosewood didn't seem like a low budget film to me.

Hmm, I see at imdb its budget was $25 million. Is this low? I don't know...

[Schilkeman 1,006]

Kind of the low end for a mid budget drama in the late 90s, I think. 

[Thor 7,643]

Whatever the cost was, it looks amazing. So full and saturated and sweaty; definitely Jensen's best work as cinematographer.

[Brónach 1,302]

On 07/07/2023 at 4:23 PM, Tom Guernsey said:

Minority Report always struck as prime Jerry Goldsmith territory (great though JW's score is).

 

imagine Poledouris

[Tom Guernsey 2,320]

59 minutes ago, Brónach said:

 

imagine Poledouris

That would also work!

[Jurassic Shark 12,232]

Half of it would have been synth and the other half would have been played by a scrappy orchestra. 

[Not Mr. Big 4,655]

To be honest, besides Conan, Poledouris's stuff never did much for me

[Brónach 1,302]

not even Starship Troopers? Flesh + Blood? Wind?

[filmmusic 1,896]

11 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said:

To be honest, besides Conan, Poledouris's stuff never did much for me

Free Willy? The Blue Lagoon?

[Not Mr. Big 4,655]

1 hour ago, Brónach said:

not even Starship Troopers? Flesh + Blood? Wind?

Not a fan of Starship Troopers (film or score), and didn't get too much into what I heard of Flesh and Blood.  Haven't heard Wind

[Darth Mulder 154]

Kubrick originally wanted Williams as the composer for The Shining. It's in the trivia section on IMDB. Is this information true?

[Not Mr. Big 4,655]

2 hours ago, Darth Mulder said:

Kubrick originally wanted Williams as the composer for The Shining. It's in the trivia section on IMDB. Is this information true?

I've never heard that until now but I'm leaning towards "I don't think so".  

[Brónach 1,302]

I'm adding Pacific Rim to my wishes of Agora and Gladiator and Pirates of the Caribbean

 

On 26/06/2023 at 10:59 AM, Chen G. said:

 

I disagree. Williams' villain music - stuff like the Imperial March or even Duel of the Fates - is too rhythmically propulsive. It makes it feel groovy. I remember back in 1980 Williams said he wrote a new theme for Vader and the Empire that's "evil but fun."

 

That kind of treatment of evil - "evil but fun" - would not work for The Lord of the Rings.

 

it's possible you were looking for JW's imaginary evil music for LOTR in the wrong spots, but we can't really know.

 

I think it's also possible that Shore's intense need to sound old and "simple" may be counterintuitive to JW's sensibilities in that time period, but that's why i find this idea fun.

[Chen G. 4,024]

1 hour ago, Brónach said:

I think it's also possible that Shore's intense need to sound old and "simple" may be counterintuitive to JW's sensibilities in that time period, but that's why i find this idea fun.

 

Certainly, I would say.

 

Of course that makes it fun to imagine, though!

[Brónach 1,302]

it's true that his famous music can be very cheeky (which i really enjoy), but he has a lot of music going into the opposite direction, so i don't know.

 

"John look, this is a historical-religious-war drama"

[Edmilson 7,616]

21 hours ago, Darth Mulder said:

Kubrick originally wanted Williams as the composer for The Shining. It's in the trivia section on IMDB. Is this information true?

Maybe Kubrick temped his movie with the score from Images? Or maybe even Jaws?

[Jurassic Shark 12,232]

On 11/07/2023 at 8:30 AM, Naïve Old Fart said:

 

... and it looks like it.

It's a terribly cheap-looking film.

 

They couldn't even afford to pay for books.

[Not Mr. Big 4,655]

35 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Maybe Kubrick temped his movie with the score from Images? Or maybe even Jaws?

That doesn't seem in line with the movie Kubrick made.  At most maybe a producer pitched the idea at the early stages

[Mr. Hooper 1,960]

On 25/7/2023 at 6:02 PM, Darth Mulder said:

Kubrick originally wanted Williams as the composer for The Shining. It's in the trivia section on IMDB. Is this information true?

I remember reading that Kubrick was looking for a big commercial success, and thought The Shining would be it. Maybe he thought that hiring Williams would add to its commercial appeal...

 

That said, I've never actually read anything confirming that he was ever seriously considered.

[Marian Schedenig 8,244]

On 26/07/2023 at 10:27 PM, Not Mr. Big said:

On 26/07/2023 at 9:50 PM, Edmilson said:

Maybe Kubrick temped his movie with the score from Images? Or maybe even Jaws?

That doesn't seem in line with the movie Kubrick made.  At most maybe a producer pitched the idea at the early stages

 

Had Kubrick temped it with Images, half the finished film would probably still have the Images score in it.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,714]

DANGEROUS LIAISONS.

The score that we have is good, but doesn't really capture the tragic undercurrents of the story.

The tragedy of JANE EYRE; the sexuality of DRACULA; the playful seductiveness of THE WITCHES OF EASTWICK.

That's Oscar ™ #5, right there.

[johnmillions 1]

On 22/6/2023 at 11:46 PM, Courtney Sees Ghosts said:

Or is there just any movie you wanted Williams to do?

I do not wish to belittle the contributions of Gregson-Williams, Silvestri, or Horner, but I would be interested to hear how JW would have approached The Chronicles of Narnia, Forrest Gump, and Apollo 13.

[Toillion 216]

I just watched Titanic for the first time this weekend and I have to admit that I really didn’t like the score. Even my wife said the love theme was annoying 😳. I would have liked to see what JW could have done with the film. 

[mrbellamy 6,338]

2006-2010 are the years where I really felt JW's absence and so I would have especially liked to see him score a few more releases in there. 

 

Apart from the obvious Harry Potter and the aforementioned Agora, I think 2006 has four movies from previous collaborators that would have been right in JW's wheelhouse: World Trade Center, The Black Dahlia, Flags of Our Fathers, and Letters from Iwo Jima. Black Dahlia would probably be the most interesting, WTC strikes me as the most realistic for him to get offered and say yes. 

[GerateWohl 4,465]

4 hours ago, mrbellamy said:

Black Dahlia

Mark Isham's score is the best thing about that movie. 

[Schilkeman 1,006]

8 hours ago, Toillion said:

I just watched Titanic for the first time this weekend and I have to admit that I really didn’t like the score. Even my wife said the love theme was annoying

I love Horner's music by itself, but he may have been the worst spotter of the major film composers. I often find his music interferes with what is going on on-screen. I think Apollo 13 and Willow were quite good, but Braveheart, The Rocketeer and Titanic drove me nuts. Didn't he win a Razzie for The Perfect Storm? I'd believe it.

 

Kind of on topic, I can't think of a specific movie, but I wish Williams had more westerns in his filmography.

[Tom Guernsey 2,320]

1 hour ago, Schilkeman said:

I love Horner's music by itself, but he may have been the worst spotter of the major film composers. I often find his music interferes with what is going on on-screen. I think Apollo 13 and Willow were quite good, but Braveheart, The Rocketeer and Titanic drove me nuts. Didn't he win a Razzie for The Perfect Storm? I'd believe it.

 

Kind of on topic, I can't think of a specific movie, but I wish Williams had more westerns in his filmography.

Interesting. For all his faults on the originality front, I always thought his dramatic instincts were excellent which go hand in hand with his approach to spotting. I guess he was the anti-Jerry Goldsmith in that he took a more maximalist approach in terms of how much music he wrote but I suspect a significant factor influencing that was the types of films he scored and the era he worked (in terms of having hit the big time in the 80s rather than the 60s).

 

In terms of the original topic there’s probably more cases where I wish someone else had taken on a JW score so he could write something for a different movie instead where his particular skills could have been more effectively deployed. As I’ve noted numerous times, there are some JW scores I don’t really think anyone else could have written (the obvious classics mainly) but plenty where someone else could have written an equally good score. Having said that, I would enjoy a trip to the parallel universe were he scored Alien…

[Thor 7,643]

There's still so much unheard Williams out there to find (many TV things, for example), in addition to the great amounts that are already out there that can be listened to, that I can't invest much time or energy in thinking about what he didn't do, or could and should have done over the years.

[JTN 2,234]

Duel, The Color Purple, Bridge of Spies, Ready Player One.

[Edmilson 7,616]

World Trade Center would be nice. 

 

Another one who could be an interesting choice is the 2010 Percy Jackson movie. Yeah, the movie is atrocious but it had Chris Columbus directing it so why didn't he call JW? Maybe he already knew the movie was going to be shite and thought Williams was much higher than what the movie deserved?

 

Same goes for Oliver Stone. To this day I don't understand why stopped calling JW to do his movies. WTC, W, all of those would've been more interesting with Williams.

[GerateWohl 4,465]

I would have liked to hear Williams scores for the Hunger Games saga.

[Richard Penna 3,767]

1 hour ago, Edmilson said:

Yeah, the movie is atrocious but it had Chris Columbus directing it so why didn't he call JW? 

.....

Same goes for Oliver Stone. To this day I don't understand why stopped calling JW to do his movies. WTC, W, all of those would've been more interesting with Williams.

 

(a) How do you know they didn't and he just declined? You literally just said the PJ movie looked atrocious.

(b) <Unpopular opinion alert> Williams isn't the right composer for every project - a director deciding they want to go with someone else is not a thing that should be frowned upon. Scott's going all over the place with his music choices now depending on what he thinks an individual film needs, rather than a rosy tinted view that one composer can deliver the perfect score no matter what the material is.

[Edmilson 7,616]

In Percy Jackson's case, I think either Columbus, the producers/studio or both wanted to do something "edgier" for older kids/teens, with a more modern vibe and attitude. Remember that they aged the main characters from 12 in the books to, like, 16 or 17 in the movies?

 

Williams's music for Columbus so far had been "magical" with childlike wonder so he and/or the producers thought it would be too childish and kiddie for the kind of movie they wanted to make.

 

If this is true, I wonder how many fantasy movies based on YA literature that followed Potter were NOT offered to Williams because of his music for HP 1 and 2. Everyone wanted to have their own Harry Potter but, as a means of differentiating their movies from the HP franchise they wanted to go "darker and edgier" and thus Williams' music would not be suitable.

 

Heck, Williams might have lost the gig on HP 5-8 because producers were too focused on his music for Philosopher's Stone and wanted to go darker and more grown up (Yates's goal was to make a political thriller with OotP).

 

Too bad they haven't heard or forgot his score Prisoner of Azkaban, not to mention Revenge of the Sith, A.I., Minority Report, War of the Worlds... 2000s Williams absolutely could've done the darker score they wanted but because he was too associated with "the magic and wonder of childhood" and etc. he wasn't called for literally anything in the late 2000s.

[Bellosh 3,505]

Ready Player One

Bridge of Spies

[Once 605]

1 hour ago, Edmilson said:

Same goes for Oliver Stone. To this day I don't understand why stopped calling JW to do his movies. WTC, W, all of those would've been more interesting with Williams.

Quote

Discussing his feature “World Trade Center” on a panel at the Beverly Hilton with his composer, Craig Armstrong, and music supervisor, Budd Carr, Stone said that Armstrong was not his first choice to score the picture. “John Williams turned us down,” the Oscar-winning writer-director said. “I listened to dozens and dozens of composers.”

Source!

[Not Mr. Big 4,655]

PADDINGTON 

[Tom Guernsey 2,320]

1 hour ago, Richard Penna said:

 

(a) How do you know they didn't and he just declined? You literally just said the PJ movie looked atrocious.

(b) <Unpopular opinion alert> Williams isn't the right composer for every project - a director deciding they want to go with someone else is not a thing that should be frowned upon. Scott's going all over the place with his music choices now depending on what he thinks an individual film needs, rather than a rosy tinted view that one composer can deliver the perfect score no matter what the material is.

I agree with your unpopular opinion 😜. But as I’ve said above, there are certain projects where I don’t think he could have been surpassed and his skills are much better put to those. Would i love to have heard a Jerry Star Wars or Superman score? Sure. But would he have written something better? I doubt it. And I say that as a devoted Jerry fan. Those were films where JW was just a perfect fit and used the full breadth of his talents and style. 

[mrbellamy 6,338]

1 hour ago, Once said:

Source!

 

I had a feeling he'd been offered it!

 

My guesses would be that he either didn't care for the film, felt 9/11 was too heavy or too much pressure to write for, or 2005 just wore him out. 

[Not Mr. Big 4,655]

4 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

 

I had a feeling he'd been offered it!

 

My guesses would be that he either didn't care for the film, felt 9/11 was too heavy or too much pressure to write for, or 2005 just wore him out. 

"Oliver Stone's 9/11" carries a certain inflammatory political connotation, even if the film itself ended up being very safe

[artguy360 1,846]

11 hours ago, Once said:

Source!

I watched the film and appreciated it for what it was, but I don't think the film has a lot of musical potential. I think it was not a very interesting project for JW in terms of opportunities for the music to shine in the film.

[Richard Penna 3,767]

13 hours ago, Tom Guernsey said:

Those were films where JW was just a perfect fit and used the full breadth of his talents and style. 

 

I agree but with a much more subsetted basis - there's no question that Williams was the perfect composer for the big franchises - SW, Indy, Potter, Jurassic. Career-best stuff in all of these. Maybe less so some of the later SW films where the filmic material went downhill and perhaps a younger, more enthusiastic composer might've found something fresher to add. (I'd have loved Powell scoring the sequels)

 

Where I'd suggest more healthy debate is non-franchise, standalone films, and I compare something like The Terminal where his jazzy roots and general romantic approach was just right for the film, with perhaps WotW where I wonder if something a bit more modern, by a composer who can do more interesting textural work (perhaps using electronics more), might've lent the film a bit more oomph. I find the action cues in that score a bit messy.

 

As for a film I wish Williams had done? Actually, given what we got for the last few Potter movies and my general 'so-so' view on Desplat, in retrospect, a Williams-send off could've been fun.

[mrbellamy 6,338]

11 hours ago, artguy360 said:

I watched the film and appreciated it for what it was, but I don't think the film has a lot of musical potential. I think it was not a very interesting project for JW in terms of opportunities for the music to shine in the film.

 

Probably would have inspired a nice concert piece, though

[Yavar Moradi 2,649]

Superman II will always be my #1 answer to this. I like Ken Thorne in general but he had a thankless task on this assignment, which I guess he did about as well as anyone could do...but it wasn't the original score the film needed.

 

Oh, and the Nuclear Man theme from Superman IV effin' SLAPS! (I like the other two new Williams themes for that score as well.)

 

Yavar

[Jurassic Shark 12,232]

Chamber of Secrets. 

[Edmilson 7,616]

I'm pretty confident that if Williams could've devoted 100% of his attention to Chamber of Secrets it would've turned out a better score than Philosopher's Stone. The Chamber theme is among the best JW wrote in the XXI century.

 

Damn it Spielberg, why didn't you wait to release CMIYC in 2003? 

[GerateWohl 4,465]

24 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Damn it Spielberg, why didn't you wait to release CMIYC in 2003? 

Why didn't Spielberg let Jerry Goldsmith write the score for Catch Me If You Can? Or Elmer Bernstein. I am sure, both would have turned out great, too.

[Edmilson 7,616]

8 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

Why didn't Spielberg let Jerry Goldsmith write the score for Catch Me If You Can? Or Elmer Bernstein. I am sure, both would have turned out great, too.

Indeed, but I think it's more likely Spielberg would've called Thomas Newman or James Horner.

 

I wonder how "hurt" and feeling betrayed Spielberg would be if JW had chosen to focus 100% on HP2 and left CMIYC though. Would he understand or would he be so upset he'd never work with Williams again?