John Powell's HOW TO TRAIN YOUR DRAGON: THE HIDDEN WORLD (2019) - 2024 Varese Deluxe Edition

[filip 53]

48 minutes ago, Molly Weasley said:

I'm curious if anyone else feels the Hidden World DE has a really weird EQ (esp. compared to the OST). Granted, I've only listened in my car so far, but it seems like the modern smiley-face EQ is fairly exaggerated on this album. Missing a lot of the mids.

Erm... is that written "smiley-face" supposed to mean something in response to the quoted post of mine? Feels weird.

[Faleel 5,359]

1 hour ago, filip said:

Erm... is that written "smiley-face" supposed to mean something in response to the quoted post of mine? Feels weird.

It's a type of eq curve, resulting in more high bite and sizzle, and bassier lows.

[filip 53]

25 minutes ago, Faleel said:

It's a type of eq curve, resulting in more high bite and sizzle, and bassier lows.

ty.

I'm having a bad day. Everything feels personal. Good thing I still had some common sense left to ask.

Apologies@Molly Weasley

[JTN 2,036]

One of the main reasons why I love John Powell’s work is because his music has the same raw energy that the music of Williams and Goldsmith has. His melodies are great, but the sheer force he utilizes the orchestra with, that blows the world’s head off, is what truly captivates me. It’s this kind of music that makes me fall in love with film music and symphonic music in general over and over again.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

9 hours ago, Princeling1987 said:

 

I think that the HTTYD Soundtrack Trilogy is the second best of all time right behind the LOTR Trilogy and before anything Star Wars.

 

I think that Powell is the best composer of the 2010's thanks to the HTTYD Trilogy, MNM, Pan, Ferdinand, Solo.

 

So you're damn right, this thread has been a great read for a Powell fan!!

 

Just want to say, I'd like to echo the positive vibe in this thread has, because I'd normally expect a post like this to be torn apart in 5 seconds flat by angry villagers who can't believe you've ranked something/someone above Williams. But they haven't (yet) and it speaks to the mature tone of this thread that you can have a view that goes a bit against the JWFan grain but is nonetheless honest and driven by different tastes. I too love LotR and HTTYD as a whole more than anything in SW - they came along at the right time for me, just like SW came along at the similar point for others.

[JTN 2,036]

While I would never rank HTTYD above the wonderful classic masterpieces that the Star Wars scores are, John Powell is indeed one of the best film composers who has worked in film music in the last 20 years. 

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

I definitely hold Williams’ scores in higher regard, but I also play individual cues from HTTYD more often than anything from Star Wars.

[Faleel 5,359]

I would rank JW's SW scores at "I love this" and JP's HTTYD scores at "I love this too!"

[Yavar Moradi 2,599]

2 hours ago, Faleel said:

I would rank JW's SW scores at "I love this" and JP's HTTYD scores at "I love this too!"

 

This is the correct, healthy attitude to have.

 

Yavar

[Holko 9,529]

First impression is that this score's fantastic. Fun new themes, some real interesting variations on the old ones, some amazing highlight cues, you really can hear the maturation of Powell's writing, there's even a surprise source cue!

 

On the second listen though, I wasn't 100% satisfied with the structure. It's going along nicely and then oh no, we're at the end already without that much buildup, when many of the themes barely got space for nice renditions? And we're already doing the big epic sad ending when the score itself didn't much suggest that this was all leading to a big sad ending? Though the film absolutely does not build up to it either so that makes sense. Also it has the messiest battle cue of the three. I just thought that 2 does a better job with its structure, having an arc, feeling like a full journey, having enough space for all the themes to be explored, having more emotionally charged key moments etc., largely helped by the movie being much better and allowing for all that of course. Ironically this is the longest of the 3 scores (if only by a few minutes and helped by the credits) but somehow on this listen I felt like it should have definitely been longer, which I never really thought with the really well-rounded first two.

 

But Busy Busy Berk is still amazing.

And holy shit Forbidden Courtship.

And Romance in the Clouds!

And The Hidden World!

And Grimmel's Surprise!

And Viking Wedding / Boat Epilogue!

And Setting Up Camp!

And Stronger Together!

And Into the Hole!

And With Love Comes Loss!

Oh, and all the Powell quotes in the booklet are lovely! And I didn't know he was so involved in even the script/ideas phase!

 

 

My first pass at an edit looks like this:

 

I did a little blanket EQing across the whole thing to boost the mids. I took many of the OST titles where I liked them better but it's all the DE tracks.

 

• Joined Mysterious Creature with Toothless in Love.
• Joined Valka's Warning with Setting Up Camp, in reverse order (heavier cue first, playful second) because I felt it makes for a better transition between the darker ending of Exodus and the playful Forbidden Courtship that way.
• Moved New Berk Feast forward to replace Near Miss Valka (makes this block more light, no short dark interruption), also lowered its volume a bit, what is it with loud medieval source cues in the middle of the program, first the Nelwynses then this
• Joined Near Miss Valka and Ambush / Cage Fight
• Joined Stronger Together, New Island and Into the Hole, the latter two especially work better joined when the tension is kept up instead of them just being short disconnected cues. Also the first 12 seconds of New Island were moved to the start of this track, before Stronger Together.
• Joined With Love Comes Loss and Grimmel's Surprise

[Andy 4,141]

Looks interesting @Holko   Did you delete anything?  My first listen was a mixed reaction, and I’ve only seen the film once, so I might be better with something like this. 
 

Do you have a measured or quantifiable EQ adjustment, or did you just go by ear?

[Holko 9,529]

Just now, Andy said:

Did you delete anything?

Yep, the Jónsi song! I think now was the first time I listened to the entire thing, and I'm pretty damn sure it's the last. I like Sticks and Stones and really like Where No One Gkes but this is just... no.

 

2 minutes ago, Andy said:

Do you have a measured or quantifiable EQ adjustment, or did you just go by ear?

Yeah unfortunately I just went by ear tweaking it for half an hour to go well enough with the preset of my earphones.

[Faleel 5,359]

2 hours ago, Holko said:

Yep, the Jónsi song! I think now was the first time I listened to the entire thing, and I'm pretty damn sure it's the last. I like Sticks and Stones and really like Where No One Gkes but this is just... no.

 

 

Yeah, not the biggest fan of it at all.

 

Though I kinda like the lyric "growing apart" as I kinda interpret it with a double meaning:

 

Growing on our own separate from each other.

 

Growing farther away from each other.

[Tallguy 3,401]

It's my favorite of the three songs. And it's so heartbreaking that I usually don't listen to it.

[Faleel 5,359]

1 minute ago, Tallguy said:

It's my favorite of the three songs. And it's so heartbreaking that I usually don't listen to it.

That last part is certainly true, from a certain point of view

[Richard Penna 3,694]

Clear hierarchy of the songs for me. Where No One Goes is awesome, Together From Afar is just barely interesting enough to keep, but Sticks and Stones has about as much business being on a soundtrack album as I See Fire (i.e., bugger all).

 

One simple change would make all three at least a passing interest, and only the second one does it - use Powell's theme.

[bored 309]

Unpopular opinion: I never liked Where No One Goes either. It just doesn't fit the style of the rest of the music at all besides the vague Icelandic/Nordic connection. The electronic vocals and drums make me cringe every single time without fail, and I really wish that whole sequence was just a new version of "Test Drive" in E Major the whole time instead. At least in "Test Drive" the guitar's way in the background and blends well with the other instruments. 

[Richard Penna 3,694]

I agree that stylistically it doesn't fit at all but I like the verse melody (the chorus being Test Drive) and in general I do like electronically driven songs. Not everyone's thing though, of course.

 

I gave S&S a re-listen after getting this set and I just couldn't find a way into it. If that song has anything to do with the score or film other than a very tenuous cultural link with the band, or some meaning of sticks and stones... I'm not hearing it. It would be like putting Radioactive on a soundtrack album for a family comedy set in Vegas. Yes, the band is from there but what do they have to do with the theme or plot of the film? None of the albums needed a song.

[Faleel 5,359]

It's in the credits, that's what it had to do with the film.....

[Richard Penna 3,694]

14 hours ago, Holko said:

Also it has the messiest battle cue of the three.

 

One of my few quibbles with the score is exactly this, and especially with the new section put back in. I get a bit apologistic with these moments because the composer is having to follow the film, but nonetheless it's not a very cohesive battle cue.

 

The other quibble would be that I'm not a massive fan of Rescue Mission. It's a perfectly fine cue but it functions a bit like a prologue that needs music that's not very prologue-like on album. Were I looking to arrange the album for optimum listening I'd actually move this cue somewhere a bit later, and maybe even put Grimmel's Surprise as an opener, which has a much faster and accessible build-up and ends on a similar vibe.

[Edmilson 7,466]

HTTYD 2 has the best action music but HTTYD 3 has the best emotional parts (and by a hair, because Stoick Saves Hiccup and Stoick's Funeral is peak John Powell). 

[Tallguy 3,401]

Unless we're counting the openings of 1 and 2 as action music (and it probably is, I just don't think of it that way) I don't really pay attention to ANY of the "action" music in all three of them. Maybe if I narrowed that to "battle" music. I mean, it's good, it certainly serves the film. There are parts of the final battle in 1 that make me cheer. But it doesn't hold a candle to See You Tomorrow or Flying With Mother etc. For some reason I don't count cues like Toothless Comes Back (or any of the tracks that follow that) as "action".

 

The thing that made me want the expansion of 2 the most was Where No On Goes Reprise.

[Faleel 5,359]

Do... do we need to take away your score fan card?

 

 

[Tallguy 3,401]

35 minutes ago, Faleel said:

Do... do we need to take away your score fan card?

 

 

 

No, I don't think so, why?

 

"Don't pay attention to" is probably strong. It's not like I'm editing them out of my playlist or anything. But none of these pieces are the ones that made me say "I MUST HAVE THIS SCORE". Besides, See You Tomorrow and Forbidden Courtship have more oomph than most "action" scores.

[Faleel 5,359]

3 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

 

No, I don't think so, why?

 

"Don't pay attention to" is probably strong. It's not like I'm editing them out of my playlist or anything. But none of these pieces are the ones that made me say "I MUST HAVE THIS SCORE". Besides, See You Tomorrow and Forbidden Courtship have more oomph than most "action" scores.

Cool.

 

Battle of the Bewilderbeast made me want to write music.

[Andy 4,141]

I’m with @Tallguyon this. 
 

I’m here for the thematic stuff, the friendship stuff, the delicate quirky stuff, the emotional stuff. 
 

Powell loses me when he brings the entire weight of the orchestra on top of my ears for action cues.   Not always, but I know I’m not alone in this opinion.  I listen in my car, so maybe I’d have a different opinion on my home stereo, but his are the only scores that have me reaching to turn the volume down. 

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

Honestly, I reach to turn the volume down on a couple of his scores, but only in their officially released form. The FYC of HTTYD1 for example I do not consider to be too loud, even though the DE and especially the OST are in some places. IMO of course.

[Holko 9,529]

8 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

The other quibble would be that I'm not a massive fan of Rescue Mission. It's a perfectly fine cue but it functions a bit like a prologue that needs music that's not very prologue-like on album.

Yeah, it jumps right into material that we're hearing for the first time as if it was known material he's free to vary, very different from the almost formal introductions in the other two.

 

 

Y'all are mad, Powell's action is pretty much all awesome and fun.

 

 

Also...

7 hours ago, Edmilson said:

but HTTYD 3 has the best emotional parts

Haha no, I can't even think of any that really affect me outside of the epilogue.

[Faleel 5,359]

Y'all trippin.

22 hours ago, Holko said:

And we're already doing the big epic sad ending when the score itself didn't much suggest that this was all leading to a big sad ending?

A melancholic pall is cast on practically the entire score right from Legend Has It.....

[Holko 9,529]

22 minutes ago, Faleel said:

A melancholic pall is cast on practically the entire score right from Legend Has It.....

My impression from my second listen was that a lot of it is just carefree and cutesy fun, with a little threatening/action thrown in but not with that much emotional depth or stakes or weight. 1 and 2 build to their endings better.

[Faleel 5,359]

1 minute ago, Holko said:

My impression from my second listen was that a lot of it is just carefree and cutesy fun, with a little threatening/action thrown in but not with that much emotional depth or stakes or weight. 1 and 2 build to their endings better.

Your impressions were WRAWNG!!

 

 

Too much reverb and bass drone undertones to be carefree

[tee_oh 20]

On 11/3/2024 at 11:35 AM, Andy said:

I’m with @Tallguyon this. 
 

I’m here for the thematic stuff, the friendship stuff, the delicate quirky stuff, the emotional stuff. 
 

Powell loses me when he brings the entire weight of the orchestra on top of my ears for action cues.   Not always, but I know I’m not alone in this opinion.  I listen in my car, so maybe I’d have a different opinion on my home stereo, but his are the only scores that have me reaching to turn the volume down. 

 

Yeah Powell is one of my favorite composers but a lot of his scores have a point where its just too much and I have to turn it down or skip, generally the climactic action scenes like Into the Maw, or Rebellion of the Winged

[Luka 242]

2 minutes ago, tee_oh said:

a point where its just too much and I have to turn it down or skip, generally the climactic action scenes

 

That's where I turn the volume up and bang my head 

[Faleel 5,359]

1 hour ago, Luka said:

 

That's where I turn the volume up and bang my head 

Sounds painful

[PrayodiBA 517]

It's very heartening to see such great praise for John Powell here. It’s further cementing that after John Williams, the next greatest composer of this decade is indeed John Powell.

 

But as a Powell fan, I guess it’s not wrong to place the HTTYD trilogy scores not among the very best of him.
 

HTTYD's score are too "heavy" for me. HTTYD is a Powell score that I rarely revisit (albeit how masterpice it is)

 

Even if ranked, all of HTTYD's scores do not make it into my TOP 3 best Powell scores, which is here my TOP 20 ranking for me:

 

1. Happy Feet
2. Horton Hears A Who
3. Antz
4. First HTTYD
5. Mars Needs Moms
6. Ice Age 3
7. Migration
8. Third HTTYD
9. Chicken Run
10. X-Men 3
11. Kung Fu Panda
12. Second HTTYD
13. Call of The Wild
14. Robots
15. Pan
16. Evolution

17. Ferdinand
18. Solo A Star Wars Story
19. Rio
20. Bolt

(Yes, I put Solo that low. Solo is too too much for me)

 

[Anthony 572]

I'm not quite sure why, but there's a period between 2011 and 2014 where there are 5 consecutive scores which just don't do anything for me.

 

Kung Fu Panda 2

Happy Feet Two

The Lorax

Ice Age 4

Rio 2

 

Apart from Bola Viva from Rio 2 (which you need the song album for), many of these just sound like they are going through the motions. 

 

Yes, there have been other less interesting scores over the years (Jumper, Green Zone, Fair Game, Jason Bourne...) but it was odd to have 5 in a row AND for them to be for the type of film where Powell usually excels.

 

[Faleel 5,359]

6 minutes ago, Anthony said:

I'm not quite sure why, but there's a period between 2011 and 2014 where there are 5 consecutive scores which just don't do anything for me.

 

Kung Fu Panda 2

Happy Feet Two

The Lorax

Ice Age 4

Rio 2

 

Apart from Bola Viva from Rio 2 (which you need the song album for), many of these just sound like they are going through the motions. 

 

Yes, there have been other less interesting scores over the years (Jumper, Green Zone, Fair Game, Jason Bourne...) but it was odd to have 5 in a row AND for them to be for the type of film where Powell usually excels.

 

Wasn't it KFP2 where Powell ended up quitting early on after getting fed up with director interference? that could explain it.

 

(Personally, I like KFP2)

[Anthony 572]

14 hours ago, PrayodiBA said:

if ranked, all of HTTYD's scores do not make it into my TOP 3 best Powell scores

 

I'm not surprised by anything on your list - they are all very good. However I *was* surprised by a couple of absences - no Paycheck or The Bourne Supremacy (and one that doesn't seem to get mentioned as much, Mr. & Mrs. Smith...although maybe I like that more then the average person). Are you less into that style of Powell?

[Tallguy 3,401]

I was actually listening to KFP2 the other day. 1) It's my favorite film in the series. 2) There's a moment towards the end of The Hidden World that slips into Powell's KFP groove. (I think it's the scene in KFP2 where Po is meditating and trying to remember his parents.) I don't know where the moment is in THW. I'll find it when I quit listening to Top Gun.

 

The one I don't revisit enough is Bolt. Bolt is a strong pre-cursor to HTTYD with a goodly amount of To Kill a Mockingbird mixed in. I LOVE that score.

 

I never saw Mr. and Mrs. Smith but I have the score. MaMS, Ferdinand, and parts of Solo all have that "I feel like SPANISH today!" sound. IIRC. The only one of those three that I know really well is Solo.

[Gabriel Bezerra 302]

19 hours ago, PrayodiBA said:

1. Happy Feet

Someone who loves Happy Feet!!!

 

[Knight of Ren 789]

I've been revisiting the Kung Fu Panda scores and the second entry is definitely my favorite. Powell's presence is perfectly balanced with Zimmer's and I really like how each of them gave their own style to the music and the themes. KFP3 is also really nice, but I feel not as great since Powell's absence is felt more, and a similar thing happened while listening to the fourth score recently.

 

My fav Powell scores outside of HTTYD would be Pan, Call of the Wild and Solo. I love his fantasy/adventure writing and I feel those are some of the best examples of what he has to offer!

[Tallguy 3,401]

I should check out Pan. The movie was very meh.

 

The one Powell score I just can't get into that people rave about is X-Men 3. So not only do I hate the movie but now I feel like I'm missing out on a great Powell score. Ah well, I'll always have Chicken Run.

[mstrox 6,651]

Yeah, I’ve never been able to get into his X-men score either.

 

The Powell scores I really dig are Chicken Run, Shrek, Evolution, and Solo.  There are some real high points in Horton but overall it doesn’t cling together for me as a listen.  Everything else is pretty-good, except his Bourne scores didn’t do anything for me.

[PrayodiBA 517]

8 hours ago, Anthony said:

I'm not surprised by anything on your list - they are all very good. However I *was* surprised by a couple of absences - no Paycheck or The Bourne Supremacy (and one that doesn't seem to get mentioned as much, Mr. & Mrs. Smith...although maybe I like that more then the average person). Are you less into that style of Powell?

Yeah, you got me. I'm not really fond of Powell's live action score. That being said, each of them has its own highlight in the OST that I'd rank high amongst Powell's best tracks, like "Hogchase", etc. But as a whole album, I just can't connect. 

 

 

4 hours ago, Gabriel Bezerra said:

Someone who loves Happy Feet!!!

 

 

😄😄

Happy Feet is truly a gem!

(People often dislike it because of the presumed "uneven-ness" in the middle part, which is certainly not the case)

I found this is Powell at his "most restrained", but at the same time still delivering his usual bonanza. Hence, making it a good listen. Not too heavy. But that's not the reason why I adore it.

It's the themes,.....those themes though,.......... 😍

 

Happy Feet, along with Antz, and Horton Hears A Who, were the one that first welcomed me to Powell. That's why I put them at the very top. I still remember when I was teenager, how I always repeat & repeat the scene where the "Hero/The Alien Ship" theme appears in Happy Feet. And how powerful the "The BIg Shoe" theme in Antz. And how I might perhaps shed a tear when the "We Are Here" scene started to play in Horton.

 

[mstrox 6,651]

I didn’t know who he was at the time, but his big Media Ventures Action Themes to Face/Off grabbed me in the theater.

[JNHFan2000 2,966]

The Aliens Ships from Happy Feet is still one of Powell's best cues in his career.

 

That solo flute always gives me chills and the buildup before and after that is 🤌🏽

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

8 hours ago, Anthony said:

I'm not surprised by anything on your list - they are all very good. However I *was* surprised by a couple of absences - no Paycheck or The Bourne Supremacy (and one that doesn't seem to get mentioned as much, Mr. & Mrs. Smith...

 

Speaking only for myself of course, I love all three of those scores.

[PrayodiBA 517]

19 minutes ago, JNHFan2000 said:

The Aliens Ships from Happy Feet is still one of Powell's best cues in his career.

 

That solo flute always gives me chills and the buildup before and after that is 🤌🏽

 

This one, right?

 

The very best theme from Powell!

As if the angel itself guided him to write it.

 

I'm sorry HTTYD, you are quite nothing compared to this theme.

[Anthony 572]

On 13/03/2024 at 11:25 AM, Tallguy said:

I never saw Mr. and Mrs. Smith but I have the score. MaMS, Ferdinand, and parts of Solo all have that "I feel like SPANISH today!" sound.

 

If you like that, you'll probably also like Knight And Day. Especially the Bull Run cue.

 

Not sure what parts of Solo sound Spanish, however!

 

23 hours ago, PrayodiBA said:

 

This one, right?

 

The very best theme from Powell!

As if the angel itself guided him to write it.

 

I'm sorry HTTYD, you are quite nothing compared to this theme.

 

I struggle with large parts of Happy Feet. The dramatic stuff (that theme included) just sound quite dark and depressing to me. Give me the lighter stuff any day. Maaaaaambo!

 

Best Powell theme...hmm. I feel choosing something from Dragons is too easy. Test Drive, yeah, yeah...

 

Maybe the Flying theme from Rio.

 

 

[Edmilson 7,466]

I love Powell's theme from Rio! Such a fun, heartwarming and underrated score.