Composer Threads James Newton Howard thread

[JTN 2,030]

Does anyone have a John Williams tattoo? Maurizio must have one. 

[Thor 7,508]

God, no. No offense to leeallen, but to me, tatooing your favourite artists on your body is too extreme. Then again, I have no interest in tatooing my body with anything in the first place.

[thestat 348]

Dude leeallen - mega respect! My favourite is probably this mega-overblown Costner vengeance track. This was when JNH went from a Streisand, Seagal guy to full-blown orchestral genious. Obviously, I was ignorant of JNH's substantial background in orchestration and conducting:

 

And I love when the full JNH kicks in at about 4:30, brilliant, brilliant stuff

 

[Richard Penna 3,694]

On 24/05/2023 at 10:54 PM, thestat said:

 

And I love when the full JNH kicks in at about 4:30, brilliant, brilliant stuff

 

 

I absolutely adore this cue too. There's something about how relatively understated it is as an action cue yet it feels so dramatic as a result. Particularly the part at 5:24 where it doesn't quite go straight into the final part of the action, but that little extra beat of buildup does something to throw you off slightly before the final part. Then the final dissonant bit at 7:00 (in the expansion) is unlike anything I've heard from a score like this - I can't remember what happens in the film but it can't be good.

[Marc 768]

I just had to transcribe and record this one !

 

 

[Edmilson 7,466]

JNH received another Emmy nomination for the Industrial Light & Magic documentary. Weirdly, only he was nominated, not the other guys, despite them being credited in the album.

 

https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/2023-emmy-nominations-list-1235666521/

[Bespin 8,483]

Wow, I just discovered that James Newton Howard wrote 5 arrangements for Charles Aznavour on his 12th album in English, recorded in California, and titled "Aznavour '83" (titled "In Times To Be" in UK).

• I'll Be There

• In Your Room

• Hold Back The Night

• I Didn't See The Time Go By

• In Times To Be

https://www.discogs.com/release/2971504-Charles-Aznavour-Ill-Be-There

 

 

[JTN 2,030]

On 12/7/2023 at 7:16 PM, Edmilson said:

Weirdly, only he was nominated, not the other guys, despite them being credited in the album.

This is the Zimmer way.

[Edmilson 7,466]

Michael Dean Parsons Co-Scoring David Yates’ ‘Pain Hustlers’

 

Quote

Michael Dean Parsons (Sketchbook, Stan Lee, Only, Obi-Wan Kenobi: A Jedi’s Return) has joined composer James Newton Howard to co-score the upcoming Netflix original film Pain Hustlers. The movie is directed by David Yates (Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them) and stars Emily Blunt, Chris Evans, Catherine O’Hara, Jay Duplass, Chloe Coleman, Brian d’Arcy James, Aubrey Dollar, Amit Shah, Willie Raysor and Andy Garcia. The crime drama revolves around a woman struggling to raise her daughter who becomes involved in a racketeering scheme after taking a job at a failing pharmaceutical start-up. Wells Tower wrote the screenplay. Yates is also producing the project with Lawrence Grey (Lights Out, Yes Day). Parsons has previously provided additional music for the Howard-scored Disney+ docuseries Light & Magic and served as score producer on Willow, Fantastic Beasts: The Secrets of Dumbledore and the upcoming The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes (to be released in theaters on November 17, 2023) and All the Lights We Cannot See (to premiere on November 2 on Netflix). Pain Hustlers will premiere next month at the 2023 Toronto Film Festival and is set to debut on October 27 on Netflix.

 

http://filmmusicreporter.com/2023/08/17/michael-dean-parsons-co-scoring-david-yates-pain-hustlers/

 

Why do I have the uncomfortable feeling that, if that disturbing Vanity Fair article had not been published last year, this Parsons dude would've written much of the Pain Hustlers score and it would've still be credited to JNH alone?

[Stark 316]

20 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Michael Dean Parsons Co-Scoring David Yates’ ‘Pain Hustlers’

 

 

http://filmmusicreporter.com/2023/08/17/michael-dean-parsons-co-scoring-david-yates-pain-hustlers/

 

Why do I have the uncomfortable feeling that, if that disturbing Vanity Fair article had not been published last year, this Parsons dude would've written much of the Pain Hustlers score and it would've still be credited to JNH alone?

Additional composers have been getting credited as co-composers more and more even before that article, but also this Parsons guy has been writing documentary scores independent of JNH so I don’t even think this is an “additional music guy writes most of the music” situation.

[Edmilson 7,466]

I imagine that, with JNH busy with Hunger Games prequel and All the Light We Cannot See, he probably just provided the themes to Pain Hustlers and Parsons did the rest.

[thestat 348]

So glad to see JNH go back to full melodic exploration with the Night on Night album (if this does not get a Grammy and an accompanying tour with all the performers, there is no justice in the world at all). At the same time, would be wonderful if he was allowed to compose action music like this again

 

[Tallguy 3,398]

50 minutes ago, thestat said:

So glad to see JNH go back to full melodic exploration with the Night on Night album (if this does not get a Grammy and an accompanying tour with all the performers, there is no justice in the world at all). At the same time, would be wonderful if he was allowed to compose action music like this again

 

 

I was late to the party but I became obsessed with this score last year. I still have never seen the film.

[MaxMovieMan 273]

I’m relistening to the complete King Kong score right now and damn it is such a banger. The Skull Island theme is incredible.

[Edmilson 7,466]

Since that can't be expanded because the movie released in late 2005, then at least I'm thankful we got the sessions.

[Tallguy 3,398]

50 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Since that can't be expanded because the movie released in late 2005, then at least I'm thankful we got the sessions.

 

Does that date ever move forward? That's 18 years ago at this point.

[JTN 2,030]

52 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

 at least I'm thankful we got the sessions.

Is it the 3-CD version with a runtime of 3:41:36?

[Richard Penna 3,694]

That's the one I've got and it's about as comprehensive as you could want. If the AFM don't want our money, their loss.

[Edmilson 7,466]

30 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

 

Does that date ever move forward? That's 18 years ago at this point.

I don't think so, no. But @Jay can clarify this better than me.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

I think it was clarified during a recent discussion that it was a set-in-stone date and not a sliding date.

 

Someone really needs to fix that, quite badly.

[Jay 37,369]

1 hour ago, Tallguy said:

 

Does that date ever move forward? That's 18 years ago at this point.

 

 

On 24/11/2022 at 12:16 PM, Jay said:

 

Here is exactly what Mike said about this:

 

For AFM recordings made before July 3, 2005, NO reuse needs to be paid to the musicians at all, provided a) that it’s for a physical format release with a 5000 unit maximum, and b) that the musicians list is published, preferably in the packaging. For recordings made after that date, whatever the musicians were paid to record the score for the film has to be paid to them again, 100%. That’s why it’s called “reuse”. They were paid to play music for sync purposes, but an album is a new use.

 

So, hypothetically, if 120 people were paid $360,000 to record the music for the film (musicians, orchestrators, copyists, at an average of $3K a person), then a label would have to pay that exact same amount to AFM in order to put out an expanded album. That makes it impossible to consider even before you get to licensing, publishing, production and manufacturing.

 

The 2005 date was established in 2015 and applied to recordings going back 10 years prior, but unfortunately it was not a “sliding” date as it really should have been.

 

Mike

 

I have never seen anything anywhere that indicated that the AFM has changed this policy.

[JTN 2,030]

@Edmilson Is there any specific reason why you're not responding to my question? 

[Edmilson 7,466]

1 hour ago, JTW said:

@Edmilson Is there any specific reason why you're not responding to my question? 

Because @Richard Penna already did better than I could:

 

2 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

That's the one I've got and it's about as comprehensive as you could want. If the AFM don't want our money, their loss.

 

[JTN 2,030]

1 hour ago, Edmilson said:

already did better than I could:

Yes but he also replied to something else. And I was asking you because I was interested in your response. 

[Edmilson 7,466]

1 minute ago, JTW said:

Yes but he also replied to something else. And I was asking you because I was interested in your response. 

Well, mine is also the 3 CD one and I'm satisfied with it. I'm pretty sure it covers everything recorded from that score, alternates included.

 

I remember a 4 CD "Deluxe" edition being announced on some dodgy corners of the internet, but I think it's a fan edit of the sessions.

[JTN 2,030]

5 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

I remember a 4 CD "Deluxe" edition being announced on some dodgy corners of the internet, but I think it's a fan edit of the sessions.

The "Deluxe Edition" I know of is shorter than the 3-CD version, only 2:28:25. Maybe there's another "deluxe edition" that I don't know. But I don't think JNH composed more music than what is in the 3-CD edition. 

[Jay 37,369]

80 cues were written for King Kong, before you even get into how many cues had multiple versions...

 

01. 1M1 Opening (v.3)

02. 1M2 Ann & Manny (v.3)

03. 1M3 Ann & Weston (v.3)

04. 1M4 Viewing Footage (v.1 and v.2 (Blake's Insert))

05. 1M5 The Map (v.2)

06. 1M6 Carl Steals Footage (v.4, Insert and New Insert)

07. 1M7 Carl Finds Ann (v.1)

08. 2M1 Carl Convinces Ann (v.2, v.4 and v.6)

09. 2M2 Venture - Ann Onto Boat (v.3, v.6 and v.7 (Insert))

10. 2M3 Ann Steps Onto Boat (v.3)

11. 2M4A

12. 2M4 Delaying Jack (v.3)

13. 2M5 Boat Leaves Harbor (v.3)

14. 2M6A Bruce Hangs Poster (v.4)

15. 2M6B Jimmy (v.4)

16. 2M7 Ann Rehearses In Mirror (v.2)

17. 2M8A Ann Meets Jack (v.7)

18. 2M8B Bruce And Jimmy (v.8)

19. 2M9 Jimmy Overhears (v.4)

20. 2M10 Filming On The Boad - Ann Meets Jack (v.5 and v.10 (Blake Insert))

21. 3M1 The Crew Is Nervous (v.2)

22. 3M2 Montage (v.2)

23. 3M3 There Are No Stars (v.2)

24. 3M4 'We Have Sea Bed!' (v.3 (Sketch))

25. 3M4 Wall (v.3)

26. 3M5A Breach (v.4)

27. 3M5B Skull Island (v.6)

28. 3M6 The Village (v.7)

29. 4M1 Natives (v.3)

30. 4M2 Native Attack (v.3)

31. 4M3A Saved by The Crew (v.2 and Rev.)

32. 4M3B Ann Is Kidnapped (v.4)

33. 4M5 Arming The Crew (v.4)

34. 4M6 Sacrifice (Part 2) (v.2)

35. 4M7 Kong Appears (v.4)

36. 4M8 Trek To Save Ann (v.1 and v.10)

37. 4M10 Crew In Boneyard (v.1)

38. 5M1 Footprint (v.5)

39. 5M2 Stampede (v.7)

40. 5M3 Raptors (v.2)

41. 5M4 Heroes Don't Look Like Me (v.1)

42. 5M5A Ann Tries To Escape - Dances (v.14, v.16 and v.18)

43. 5M5B Ruins (v.5)

44. 5M6 Crew Finds Kong - Log (v.3)

45. 6M1 Lizards (v.14)

46. 6M2 T-Rex & Ann (v.2)

47. 6M3 T-Rex & Kong Fight (v.8)

48. 6M4 Vines (v.6)

49. 6M5 Jawbreaker (v.4 and v.6)

50. 6M6 Dead Crew Members (v.5)

51. 6M7 Beautiful (v.5)

52. 7M1 Carl Gets Idea (v.2, v.3 and v.4 (New Ending))

53. 7M3 In Kong Arms (v.1)

54. 7M4 Jack In Graveyard (v.6)

55. 7M5 Kong Awakes - Bats (v.5 (Bars 1-71))

56. 7M6 Chases Ann & Jack (v.4 (Bars 1-39))

57. 7M7A Now (v.15)

58. 7M7B To The Boats (v.11)

59. 7M8 Chloroform (v.5 and v.7 (Insert))

60. 7M9 Theater (v.5 and v.6 (Insert))

61. 7M10 Jack Reflects (v.1, v.2, v.3 and v.4)

62. 8MS1 Untitled (Original, Alternate, Blake Version and Pete Version)

63. 8MS2 Kong On Broadway (Engraved, Handwritten and With annotations)

64. 8MS3 Untitled (Original and Alternate)

65. 8MS4 Untitled (Original and Alternate)

66. 8MS5 Untitled (Original and Alternate)

67. 8MS6 Untitled (Original and Alternate)

68. 8MS8 Untitled (Original and Alternate)

69. 8M1 Beauty Stayed His Hand (v.1 and Alternate)

70. 8M3 Kong Sees Jack (v.1 and v.4)

71. 8M4 Kong Chases Jack (v.8)

72. 8M5 Macy's (v.14, Alternate End 1 & 2)

73. 8M6 Army Attacks (v.9)

74. 8M7 Climbs Empire State Building (v.1)

75. 9M1 The Planes Attack (v.5)

76. 9M2 Second Attack (v.8)

77. 9M3A Jack Enters Building (v.4.and v.8 (Alternate))

78. 9M3B Third Attack (v.5 (Choir, Choir Lyrics, Choir Alternate Lyrics 1 & 2, Solo Boy, Solo Boy Lyrics, Solo Boy Alternate Lyrics 1, 2, 3 & 4) and v.9)

79. 9M4 Beauty Killed The Beast (v.4)

80. King Kong Suite

[JTN 2,030]

Plus the unused cues composed by Howard Shore. ;-)

[Brónach 1,302]

in a month? how many people worked on this?

[Tallguy 3,398]

12 minutes ago, Brónach said:

in a month? how many people worked on this?

 

All of them. Hans Zimmer went uncredited.

[Jay 37,369]

41 minutes ago, Brónach said:

in a month? how many people worked on this?

 

James Newton Howard, Chris Bacon & Blake Neely composed the score.

 

And then there were a LOT of orchestrators.

[Edmilson 7,466]

That's actually a good question. We never know how much of the KK score was written by people other than JNH. Supposedly Blake Neely helped with some stuff.

[Jay 37,369]

It's not a mystery at all.  All written on the sheet music, and credited in GEMA or other such databases properly, like always

[MaxMovieMan 273]

It’s a miracle the score turned out as good as it did. It’s almost iconic to me at this point now. One of my favorite JNH projects.

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

John Barry and Max Steiner wrote a fair share.

[Edmilson 7,466]

7 minutes ago, Jay said:

It's not a mystery at all.  All written on the sheet music, and credited in GEMA or other such databases properly, like always

Interesting! I downloaded the sheets from that forum that shall be not named a few years ago and all I found was JNH's name on most of the cues... Still, do you have a link for one of these databases? I'd like to take a look at them and finally sort out what was written by JNH and what wasn't.

[Jay 37,369]

https://online.gema.de/werke/search.faces?lang=en

 

do Titles Contains Kong

and Writer Contains Bacon or Writer Contains Neely

 

Hmm, looks like that only reveals "Bruce and Jimmy" was JNH with Bacon.  I've seen a fuller list somewhere else once.  Let me see if I can find it

 

EDIT: I apologize.  I was conflating King Kong with a different score.

 

You're right, we don't know who wrote what on this score.  The manuscripts all say JNH, or don't list the composer at all.

 

it is a mystery.

 

My bad!

[LSH 969]

 

TRACKLIST:

 

1. Selling Montage – Michael Dean Parsons (1:57)
2. One Last Pitch – Michael Dean Parsons (1:14)
3. Rookie of the Year – James Newton Howard (0:55)
4. You’re Fired – Michael Dean Parsons (0:54)
5. Liza Needs a Moment – James Newton Howard (0:38)
6. Vesting – James Newton Howard (1:23)
7. I Want a Rebate – Michael Dean Parsons (1:03)
8. Procedure Risks – Michael Dean Parsons (0:57)
9. You’re Not a Bad Person – Michael Dean Parsons (0:53)
10. Sheer Desperation – James Newton Howard & Michael Dean Parsons (2:50)
11. Stealing Evidence – Michael Dean Parsons (0:41)
12. Passive Investor – James Newton Howard (2:34)
13. One Year and Three Months – Michael Dean Parsons (0:37)
14. Hustler – Michael Dean Parsons (1:36)
15. Inventing a Doctor – Michael Dean Parsons (0:46)

[ddddeeee 257]

I like that it's broken down who did what. Netflix did that for Wednesday, too. More of this!

[JNHFan2000 2,966]

It's not a very interesting score. It very much sounds like a score that is just there to be between songs sometimes.

 

But at 18 minutes it never outstays it's welcome. But Howard's other 2 scores for this year are probably gonna be the highlights

[Thor 7,508]

19 minutes ago, JNHFan2000 said:

It's not a very interesting score. It very much sounds like a score that is just there to be between songs sometimes.

 

I agree with this. Feels like "tissue material", lying discretely underneath and not making much of a fuss.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

The breakdown would suggest Parsons did most of the work, and I think sensibly. JNH has better things to do than some Netflix film.

[JNHFan2000 2,966]

The only reason Howard did this is because it's from David Yates

[Edmilson 7,466]

According to some formulas I used on Excel, out of the 19 minutes of the album, 10 minutes 38 seconds were written by Parsons, 5 minutes 30 seconds by JNH and 2 minutes 50 seconds by both of them.

 

Yeah, this movie may be so small and off the radar that JNH only bothered writing 8 minutes of music, leaving the rest to a less famous (and probably less expensive) composer.

 

At least I'm thankful each composer got credits for the tracks they actually worked on. Had this movie happened before, JNH would've been credited for the whole album and I'd listen to it thinking it's a new work from one of my favorite composers when actually 56% of it was done by this Parsons dude (who would've gotten a tiny "additional music by" credit hidden somewhere in the movie and the album).

[LSH 969]

6 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

JNH has better things to do than some Netflix film.

 

Other than his other imminent Netflix project?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_the_Light_We_Cannot_See_(miniseries)

 

Not a film, granted, but this is one of many things JNH is producing this year that I'm looking forward to the most.

[Jaaaackified 81]

6 hours ago, Edmilson said:

According to some formulas I used on Excel, out of the 19 minutes of the album, 10 minutes 38 seconds were written by Parsons, 5 minutes 30 seconds by JNH and 2 minutes 50 seconds by both of them.

 

Yeah, this movie may be so small and off the radar that JNH only bothered writing 8 minutes of music, leaving the rest to a less famous (and probably less expensive) composer.

 

At least I'm thankful each composer got credits for the tracks they actually worked on. Had this movie happened before, JNH would've been credited for the whole album and I'd listen to it thinking it's a new work from one of my favorite composers when actually 56% of it was done by this Parsons dude (who would've gotten a tiny "additional music by" credit hidden somewhere in the movie and the album).

 

This Parsons dude is the album producer on the "Night After Night" album, the coming All The Light We Cannot See and Hunger Game prequel

[Knight of Ren 789]

Yeah, this score is just fine, not really a lot to get out of it. But I'm really looking forward to the Netflix miniseries and the Hunger Games prequel! Both look like they're gonna be great scores, I think.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

Based on a quick skim they could've scored this with library tracks to absolutely identical effect. I suppose it gives some experience to a new composer but this just seems to be generic connective stuff. At least one track is just a minute of literal droning. Not to say that's a bad thing - if you saw this and liked the music, just the release for you.

[JTN 2,030]

New interview with James Newton Howard.

https://composer.spitfireaudio.com/en/articles/james-newton-howard-on-why-clarity-and-perspective-are-crucial-for-a-great-film-score

[JNHFan2000 2,966]

That's a really good interview. Alwas glad when composers really get the chance to speak. It always ends up with some cool insights