Datameister 2,044 Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 With Horner, there'd be no need to actually hire him - just put together a temp track from his other scores and pay him royalties. The end result would be about the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Brigden 7 Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 It's a shame about Broughton, he's a fantastic composer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 Well, I renewed my Horner fandom with Avatar, Spiderwick Chronicles and The Four HorsemenWith that I know he could pull of a great Potter score Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 Well, I renewed my Horner fandom with Avatar, Spiderwick Chronicles and The Four HorsemenWith that I know he could pull of a great Potter scoreLEGEND OF ZORRO and NEW WORLD are also winners in my book. Williams modern action writing really sucks..except for parts of WOTW it's all for the dogs. NO MORE XYLOPHONES! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 I mix up Charlie Bridgen and publicist. Sorry Charlie ,50% of the past Williams bashing I attributed to you were probably from publicist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,694 Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 <br>Well, I renewed my Horner fandom with Avatar, Spiderwick Chronicles and The Four Horsemen<br><br>With that I know he could pull of a great Potter score<br><br><br>I'd hate a Potter score based on Avatar. For one thing, I think the action material in that score is entirely devoid of any personality.<br><br>Plus I've heard that Horner took <i>Spiderwick</i> because he didn't want to do Potter. Not sure where I read it, but just chucking it in the ring.<br><br><br>Williams modern action writing really sucks..except for parts of WOTW it's all for the dogs. NO MORE XYLOPHONES!<br><br><br>It's not great, really. Nothing he does sounds serious at all because of those damn xylophones. I think the troll fight in HPPS is inappropriate for the scene because it doesn't even remotely convey the idea that this troll is actually rather life threatening.<br> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 Desplat rocks, period.Did he compose a superior Potter score to the three Williams' ones? Of course not, but he wrote a damn good film score, something we don't get anymore from these kind of movies. I appreciate he mantained his own peculiar voice and avoided aping Williams' stylings.A Horner Potter score? Mm, it would have sound like a zillion other things, so thank god we didn't got one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Crichton 4 Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 Horner blew his last chance for me with Avatar. As soon as I heard the danger motif over the first shot of Pandora I knew it was going to be the same old same old. I had to stop myself from bursting out laughing so I wouldn't have to explain why I was laughing to the people I was with. Two British composers I really wish had gotten a crack at Potter, both would have been excellent: David Arnold and Murray Gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,044 Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 Horner blew his last chance for me with Avatar. As soon as I heard the danger motif over the first shot of Pandora I knew it was going to be the same old same old. I had to stop myself from bursting out laughing so I wouldn't have to explain why I was laughing to the people I was with. Same reaction here. I actually find many parts of the score to be rather compelling...and it's not his most directly self-plagiaristic work...but still, it's nothing especially new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 If the whole of Avatar score was on the same level of Quaritch Down first minute or so, I wouldn't have minded having him for Potter. But it is not the case, is it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 I was watching a bit of Avatar last night and I swear I heard John Barry King Kong in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebekahnoelleparker 9 Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 Well, I must say I'm just very disappointed. As someone who is not only a Harry Potter fanatic, but also a John Williams fanatic, this final movie was going be epic for me. I know that it will still be fine, but even if you look at the flaws of the first 3 films, the music still makes them fantastic.I wanted the ending of the series to feel more or less "full-circle" and had a lot of hope after JW's comments about his interest in the final HP film.Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy4 155 Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 I like Horner's Avatar score quite a bit. I don't really mind the use of the danger motif, because I think the only similarity is a very superficial one - the notes themselves. The harmony, the style, and the use in the score is completely different (correct me if I'm wrong - I'm assuming all the previous uses of the danger motif have been similar to the ones used in Star TRek II?). Does it even represent danger in the film? To me it seemed more like despair. Similarly, I don't mind at all Horner's reuse of his Bicentennial Man in A Beautiful Mind, because the mood it invokes is entirely different. My favorite part of Avatar is the wonderful love theme, especially as heard in "Becoming One with The People." Absolutely gorgeous, and one of the best Horner cue's I've ever heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 It was obvious that if they cant get Williams they will stay with Desplat and i would have supported them but then i heard his Part1 soundtrack..........After such a dissapointing listening experience i have to say: "What a pity to get Desplat again " There would be so many other good choices possible. And after the probably most unmemorable Potter score continuity between Part1 and 2 is for nothing now, makes not even sense anymore. He created nothing memorable worthy of continuity treatment for this soundtrack and now he does the last Part and will probably struggle hard. We all knew before that he can't write action that well. How shall such a subtle, themeless, unmemorable and boring Desplat underscore work for an action film (2/3 are action) and the finale of an eight movie franchise. I have no idea at all.Holy shit, just shut up.We all knew he can't write action well? Seriously?! You confessed you haven't heard a SINGLE other score by him. Listen to Hostage or Fantastic Mr. Fox. Fuck, listen to ANYTHING by him. You don't have the right to talk shit based on 1 hour of music out of a long career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Crichton 4 Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 OK, keep it civil please guys. If you must get ugly, please do it through PMs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joelparnis 0 Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 If it couldn't be Williams, i'm happy its Desplat. Nay-sayers be damned, part 1 is a fine score and i look forward to hearing how the many motifs and thematic ideas are expanded into part 2. Also Sky battle is the best action HP cue since PoA, and one of the highlights of the DH score. Open your ears people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 I wanted John to score it, but he's not so it's easy to deal with it. At least Desplate has talent unlike some cough zimmer cough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 I was away for the weekend so I'll just make some quick points.Richard, Williams was so enamored with the book for Geisha he had planned on approaching Yo Yo Ma and writing a piece based on the book alone for Ma to perform with him.Bruce Broughton would have been a great choice for PotterI've always felt that a Horner styled Potter might sound like his score to Something Wicked This Way Comes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF1_freeze 131 Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 Holy shit, just shut up.We all knew he can't write action well? Seriously?! You confessed you haven't heard a SINGLE other score by him. Listen to Hostage or Fantastic Mr. Fox. Fuck, listen to ANYTHING by him. You don't have the right to talk shit based on 1 hour of music out of a long career.Oh boy , you should better say:I'm such a Desplat fanboy that i can't cope with critic and as i have no proper arguments myself for serious discussion i start shouting and using bad language.In short: Get your things together and accept this score is a huge waste of opportunities and dissapointment for me. I have seen some Desplat scored films in the cinema and i never even noticed anything worthy of relistening before. The scores fit these films like gloves (which is positive) but never shine on their own or take center stage (which is bad cause it's no fun to listen to them outside of the movie).For me there obviously is no desire (after this Potter) to check out more Desplat in the near future (except DHpart2). Sky battle is a well orchestrated, enjoyable mish mash and probably one of the best tracks on this album but i would take JW on action autopilot every time over this track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 Sky battle is a well orchestrated, enjoyable mish mash and probably one of the best tracks on this album but i would take JW on action autopilot every time over this track.Why? Neither SKY BATTLE nor THE WEREWOLF SCENE (to take a random Williams pick) are anything to write home about.At the risk of arousing KM's wrath again, Williams isn't that great in the action department at present. The resident courtiers will disagree, of course, but apart from moments in WOTW and the odd set piece here and there in the prequels, which scene-specific action music by JW wasn't a clustered, sometimes downright messy, affair? (let's say since LOST WORLD) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie 45 Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 Not many weren't, but in both Desplat's and Williams' defenses, most action scenes these days are weak and lazily conceived, even if they appear to be "setpieces". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 I was watching a bit of Avatar last night and I swear I heard John Barry King Kong in there.There is a video on youtube that compares the two but I think it's a bit of a stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scallenger 483 Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 From the recent premiere of Deathly Hallows Part 1, this information has come about:On John Williams not returning for Deathly Hallows - Part 2, director David Yates said that in order for John to have returned, he would've needed to provide John with a rough cut of the film sooner than was possible. Their schedules simply did not align, but he did make it clear both Williams and Yates wanted to work with each other.Source: http://www.mugglenet.com/app/news/show/3948 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 Well I guess, for the 1000th time, we can put this to rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,802 Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 Interesting. I imagined that they would have a rough cut by now. Oh well, at least we have two more insteresting scores to look forward next year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,694 Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 Sky battle is a well orchestrated, enjoyable mish mash and probably one of the best tracks on this album but i would take JW on action autopilot every time over this track.Why? Neither SKY BATTLE nor THE WEREWOLF SCENE (to take a random Williams pick) are anything to write home about.At the risk of arousing KM's wrath again, Williams isn't that great in the action department at present. The resident courtiers will disagree, of course, but apart from moments in WOTW and the odd set piece here and there in the prequels, which scene-specific action music by JW wasn't a clustered, sometimes downright messy, affair? (let's say since LOST WORLD)Messy is the word I'd use for some of JW's recent action material. He shoves xylophones, woodwinds and pretty random brass bursts which really take the music out of the film for me.The Werewolf Scene actually make me cringe a bit during the part where Lupin actually transformers. The music descends into a load of timpani hits and metal clangs that ruin for me some pretty neat stuff going on with the actual orchestra. Then when it's actually meant to be serious (there's like, a werewolf running around trying to kill them, John?), we get some rather bright percussion, followed by what I'd describe as 4 brass players improvising for 10 seconds.On most occasions he's musically excellent, but sometimes not very appropriate for the scene. He ruins both for me with this cue.The medieval stuff and Buckbeak's material is great, but the action stuff is why I think PoA is really overrated. It's messy and almost never conveys the real emotions of the scene. Add this to the fact that I think his golden days are well behind him, and you can see why I'm not a huge fan these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy4 155 Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 I love modern Williams action music. While its more complex and more frantic than some of his other stuff, I never think of it as random hits, particularly not the stuff from the Potter films. "Quidditch, Third Year," "The Quidditch Match," and "The Chess Game" are amongst his finest action cues IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Crichton 4 Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 Well I guess, for the 1000th time, we can put this to rest.5,264th time by last count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 I love modern Williams action music. While its more complex and more frantic than some of his other stuff, I never think of it as random hits, particularly not the stuff from the Potter films. "Quidditch, Third Year," "The Quidditch Match," and "The Chess Game" are amongst his finest action cues IMO.The first one is really a fugue, classical in form, the second one is basically a theme showpiece (albeit rather bumpy in spots) and the third one uses a steady rhythm (and Alex North) as basing ground - all not characteristic for modern Williams action writing. Not that there is anything wrong with complex and frantic but i have my quivering little doubts that anyone on this board would go off on this stuff if it wasn't for the big looming credit "Composed and Conducted by John Williams". The other thing is that cues like the werewolf scene mentioned do not even work that great in the movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 I wish I were more interested in Potter music if only to get involved with the bitching goin' on in here.As it is, I'm far more excited about the upcoming Williams Tintin score (action! adventure! comedy! suspense!) than I am disappointed that he's not returning to Potter. Which I'm not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy4 155 Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 I love modern Williams action music. While its more complex and more frantic than some of his other stuff, I never think of it as random hits, particularly not the stuff from the Potter films. "Quidditch, Third Year," "The Quidditch Match," and "The Chess Game" are amongst his finest action cues IMO.The first one is really a fugue, classical in form, the second one is basically a theme showpiece (albeit rather bumpy in spots) and the third one uses a steady rhythm (and Alex North) as basing ground - all not characteristic for modern Williams action writing. Not that there is anything wrong with complex and frantic but i have my quivering little doubts that anyone on this board would go off on this stuff if it wasn't for the big looming credit "Composed and Conducted by John Williams". The other thing is that cues like the werewolf scene mentioned do not even work that great in the movie.I agree that "Werewolf Scene" isn't a great cue, but I think that's the exception rather than the other action cues I mentioned I loved. For instance, I think most modern action cues use rhythm as a basing ground - it is then developed throughout. Cues that come to mind that do this include "General Greivous," "Chase Through Couruscant," "Jango's Escape," "John Anderton's Excape," etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taikomochi 1,136 Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 I wish Elliot Goldenthal could have ascended from the heavens and replaced Desplat... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,017 Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 I wish I were more interested in Potter music if only to get involved with the bitching goin' on in here.As it is, I'm far more excited about the upcoming Williams Tintin score (action! adventure! comedy! suspense!) than I am disappointed that he's not returning to Potter. Which I'm not.Same here.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacob 0 Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 Well I guess, for the 1000th time, we can put this to rest.5,264th time by last count. Even so, it still felt like a little something died when I read that.It wasn't such a long shot after all. Just scheduling conflicts.Que sera, sera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,044 Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 Even so, it still felt like a little something died when I read that.It wasn't such a long shot after all. Just scheduling conflicts.Que sera, sera.Yep. =/ Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlao-roo 389 Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 Even so, it still felt like a little something died when I read that.You took out your frustration on some poor defenseless little animal, didn't you?Uncool, bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fommes 153 Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 Well, let's hope for his sake it was an animal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 For instance, I think most modern action cues use rhythm as a basing ground - it is then developed throughout. Cues that come to mind that do this include "General Greivous," "Chase Through Couruscant," "Jango's Escape," "John Anderton's Excape," etc...Some of them are good (who's denied that), but by and large Williams' writing often is not very coherent for those scenes (the Grievous cues would be a typical example of his overly busy and fragmented action style of late)...additionally, those pieces often awkwardly segue into each other on the soundtrack.I listen to a lot of stuff, so the intrinsicate study of some random action music by John Williams is not high on my priority list, my general impression is that either modern editing techniques or just a lack of direction prevent him from finding more convincing musical solutions for this stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 From the recent premiere of Deathly Hallows Part 1, this information has come about:Their schedules simply did not align, but he did make it clear both Williams and Yates wanted to work with each other.Source: http://www.mugglenet.com/app/news/show/3948If this was close to being true, the booklet of the OST didn't say that Yates offered Desplat part 2 during recording sessions.Way more likely is that he liked Desplat and offered him part 2. Both Yates as well as Williams probably didn't want it, so they decided on "schedule conflict".Like Shore and Jackson decided on "creative differences". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacob 0 Posted November 14, 2010 Share Posted November 14, 2010 Even so, it still felt like a little something died when I read that.You took out your frustration on some poor defenseless little animal, didn't you?Uncool, bro. Well, let's hope for his sake it was an animal.I... I killed them. I killed them all. They're dead. Every single one of them... and not just the men, but the women and the children too.They're like animals, and I slaughtered them like animals! I hate them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,044 Posted November 14, 2010 Share Posted November 14, 2010 You're breaking my heart! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted November 14, 2010 Share Posted November 14, 2010 I... I killed them. I killed them all. They're dead. Every single one of them... and not just the men, but the women and the children too.They're like animals, and I slaughtered them like animals! I hate them!*cue inappropriate Imperial March* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scallenger 483 Posted November 14, 2010 Share Posted November 14, 2010 More information about why Williams did not end up scoring Part 2:This is the first film directed by composer Alexandre Desplat, who has a wide range of films under his belt already. One reporter asked Yates how they went from Nicholas Hooper to Alexandre Desplat. It led Yates to also talk about their attempt to bring John Williams back for Part 2: "Nick basically needed to have a lie down after the first two films. He was exhausted. I'm such a noodler when it comes to music, and I don't sort of say 'Right, here's the film, go and score it.' I sit with the composer and change things and we move things around and I get them to do several drafts of something because it's so much fun and it's such an important part of the storytelling. And Nick, who's my dear friend, I wanted him to come back. And unfortunately he said 'I'm too tired'. And Alexandre, who's lovely, stepped on board. He'll be doing Part 2. I was hoping to get John Williams, and he wanted to do it, but the only way he could do it was if he scored a rough cut because of his schedule. So I would've had to have given him a rough cut and I need to get the film in a proper state before I present it to anybody. I'm a huge fan of John Williams. I grew up on John Williams. He's a God to me. The thought of showing John Williams a rough cut is "ugh, I can't do that". And so unfortunately even though he wanted to do it and I wanted him to do it, the schedules just didn't fit." Source: http://www.mugglenet.com/movies/movie7/junket.shtmlWell... we can at least say this... thank goodness Hooper was "too tired" to do the final 2 films! That would have been awful, imo. Desplat may be generic in his action music, it seems, but Hooper couldn't even write action music! lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF1_freeze 131 Posted November 14, 2010 Share Posted November 14, 2010 If Williams is Yates god he hopefully will force both Yates and Desplat to use more of Hedwig's Theme, write memorable own themes and hopefully cameo at least one other classic Potter theme like family or window to the past!(Either Yates is lying here in his praise for Williams or he just completely lacks any sense of music . Because if he has so much praise for Williams how can he value Hooper so much. I mean friendship is good and well but seriously considering to let his friend Hooper butcher another two movies is extremely strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted November 14, 2010 Share Posted November 14, 2010 Holy shit, so the stories are true, boy. Williams DID want to do it and Spielberg interceded, as usual. All the Jim Garrisons here were right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUMENKOHL 1,068 Posted November 14, 2010 Share Posted November 14, 2010 I can't figure out who ticks me off more.John Williams for being so unmalleable (this is the guy who worked with Lucas, who handed him shit cuts that looked nothing like the final movie). Or David Yates for being so stupid. You get your god offering to score a movie for you, and you reject him because you don't want to show him a rough cut? I hate to sound the conspiracy alarm, but there's more to this. Oh well. Desplat did a wonderful job on the first part. But still, getting Williams back would have been a great treat. Too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scallenger 483 Posted November 14, 2010 Share Posted November 14, 2010 Yeah, this news was frustrating to read for me. We were so close to another Williams score, til the very last minute, it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,368 Posted November 14, 2010 Share Posted November 14, 2010 Oh man, how depressing.Once again, Spielberg's schedule interferes with good scores Williams would have made for other directors. Blarg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demondm810 399 Posted November 14, 2010 Share Posted November 14, 2010 More information about why Williams did not end up scoring Part 2: I was hoping to get John Williams, and he wanted to do it, but the only way he could do it was if he scored a rough cut because of his schedule. So I would've had to have given him a rough cut and I need to get the film in a proper state before I present it to anybody. I'm a huge fan of John Williams. I grew up on John Williams. He's a God to me. The thought of showing John Williams a rough cut is "ugh, I can't do that". And so unfortunately even though he wanted to do it and I wanted him to do it, the schedules just didn't fit." Source: http://www.mugglenet.com/movies/movie7/junket.shtmlCareful not to step in the bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt C 454 Posted November 14, 2010 Share Posted November 14, 2010 Why are people sounding the conspiracy and B.S. alarms? Yates provided a sound explanation -- and despite what the liner notes said, it seems like Desplat was offered Part 2 after Williams turned it down.Let it go, people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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