Star Wars is better than everything

[HunterTech 994]

So what exactly is old Ben saying in ANH when he states the Force binds through every living being? Is that some random leftover for an idea Lucas had at one point in the planning stages?

[Chen G. 3,950]

In the classic trilogy, The Force really can be used by everybody.

 

If Johnson's film ignored the prequel trilogy, where that concept was no longer a thing, it'd be fine. But he doesn't.

[Nick1Ø66 4,720]

I never got the impression from the OT that the force could be "used" by everybody. Rather, it seemed to me that while the Force is something that binds the galaxy together, flows through all living things, etc., that only certain individuals could "access" and harness that power. At least to a significant degree.

[Chen G. 3,950]

5 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

but that only certain individuals could "access" and harness the power of the force. 

 

At various junctions in interviews and in story conferences, as late as those for Return of the Jedi, Lucas repeatedly clarifies that's not the case. But admittedly, in the finished film it gets a little more muddled with "The Force runs strong in your family."

[Bilbo 3,709]

1 hour ago, Edmilson said:

• Both love Twin Peaks;
• Both love Burton's Batman movies;
• Both love Independence Day (and hate the sequel);
• Both hate The Last Jedi due to political reasons more than filmic reasons;
• Both disliked the Joker movie;
• Both think Star Trek is better than everything

Continue.

Never seen it. Probably never will. 
Hate them. Aged terribly. 
I do enjoy ID4. Never seen the sequel. Doubt I will. 
Not a fan of TLJ but don’t hate it. Think it was poorly conceived and thought out and ended in a way that was difficult to follow up especially for someone as unimaginative as JJ. Canto Bite is half baked and Leia Poppins was unintentionally hilarious. 
Never seen it. 
Star Trek is crap. 

[Nick1Ø66 4,720]

15 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

At various junctions in interviews and in story conferences, as late as those for Return of the Jedi, Lucas clarifies that's not the case. But admittedly, in the finished film it gets a little more muddled with "The Force runs strong in your family."

 

"Clarifies"? George Lucas...clarifies?  

 

I'm surprised you, of all people, would suggest that GL's comments have any bearing on what we actually see in the films.  In the OT there's nothing to suggest that just anyone can "use the force".  We know it can run strong in some people...which suggests that at a minimum, how strong the Force runs in you dictates how readily you can channel it and use it power. I don't think anyone watching Star Wars in 77/80/83 would have ever got the impression that everybody can just "use the Force".

[Edmilson 7,470]

3 hours ago, Bilbo said:

Never seen it. Probably never will. 
Hate them. Aged terribly. 
I do enjoy ID4. Never seen the sequel. Doubt I will. 
Not a fan of TLJ but don’t hate it. Think it was poorly conceived and thought out and ended in a way that was difficult to follow up especially for someone as unimaginative as JJ. Canto Bite is half baked and Leia Poppins was unintentionally hilarious. 
Never seen it. 
Star Trek is crap. 

Here's how I compare to Drax and Justin's, and this forum at large's opinions:

• Twin Peaks: Love the 90s series. Since I wasn't even born when it aired, I only saw it on DVD years later when I already was a teenager. My father saw I loved Lost and Heroes, so he bought the box sets for Twin Peaks the The X-Files for me.
• Meh, they're okay, but I prefer Nolan's movies (except TDKR, which is dog shit). Elfman's scores are wonderful though.
• ID4 is passable. David Arnold's score is great. The sequel is one of the worst movies of the last decade.
• Loved TLJ at the movie theater and to this day I think that, although flawed, it is still one of the best SW movies (even though I maintain that franchise produced more crappy installments than good ones).
• Joker is a good movie.
• The only Trek-related stuff I think it's "better than anything" (or at least better than most things) is Jerry Goldsmith's score for The Motion Picture.

[Nick1Ø66 4,720]

14 minutes ago, Bilbo said:

Never seen it. Probably never will. 
Hate them. Aged terribly. 
I do enjoy ID4. Never seen the sequel. Doubt I will. 
Not a fan of TLJ but don’t hate it. Think it was poorly conceived and thought out and ended in a way that was difficult to follow up especially for someone as unimaginative as JJ. Canto Bite is half baked and Leia Poppins was unintentionally hilarious. 
Never seen it. 
Star Trek is crap.   

 

You came so close!!!

 

Weren't Drax & Justin both obsessed with Titanic as well?

[HunterTech 994]

2 hours ago, Edmilson said:

• Both love Twin Peaks;
• Both love Burton's Batman movies;
• Both love Independence Day (and hate the sequel);
• Both hate The Last Jedi due to political reasons more than filmic reasons;
• Both disliked the Joker movie;
• Both think Star Trek is better than everything

Continue.

 

Never seen it.

89 is fun, and Returns is curious (if perhaps not feeling like a Batman thing much), whilst the score are obvious highlights.

Haven't seen it, though the score is great.

TLJ is both underrated and overrated, and the only thing I could fault it for is potentially making Hollywood further decide we should be in a 50 year entertainment loop because people couldn't shut up (though it definitely is more complicated than that).

Joker didn't leave a particularly strong impression on me, but it's competent enough.

I liked Beyond and the Motion Picture (plus love the first two scores by themselves), so I definitely want to look at more.

[Chen G. 3,950]

23 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

In the OT there's nothing to suggest that just anyone can "use the force".  We know it can run strong in some people

 

You do have a point that, ultimately, what matters is people's own perception of what they watched, independently of any surrounding media coverage. And yes, there's nothing in the film to suggest that anyone can use the Force, but - before Return of the Jedi at least - there's nothing to suggest otherwise, either. 

 

Heck, in the original film The Force is much less of an overt superpower (and in earlier drafts other characters had other powers too: in the third draft, and the audition scripts, Leia was said to "know the art of mind control") and much more of a "believe in yourself" thing.

[Faleel 5,359]

You could argue there is a bit of a remnant of that in "here Resistance to the mind Probe is considerable"

 

And there are people out there who perceived the Force as being able to be tapped by anybody.

[Edmilson 7,470]

11 minutes ago, HunterTech said:

I liked Beyond and the Motion Picture (plus love the first two scores by themselves), so I definitely want to look at more.

Oh, I almost forgot: I liked JJ Abrams' Star Trek 2009 as well! I know diehard Trek fans hate this movie because of how un-Trek it is but as a non-fan I thought it was a wildly entertaining blockbuster with some terrific special effects, pacing and action, plus a great Giacchino score. In a summer season so utterly terrible for blockbusters (we also got crap like X-Men Origins, Angels and Demons, Terminator: Salvation, Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen, G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra, HP and the Half-Blood Prince - which I dislike, etc), the first Kelvinverse movie was one of the best.

 

I liked it so much that Into Darkness was one of my most antecipated movies for 2013. I saw it in theaters hoping for it to be Trek's equivalent of The Dark Knight... But it was not a good movie, disliked both by diehards and casuals. Then, Beyond was... meh.

[Tallguy 3,401]

2 hours ago, Chen G. said:

What I mean is, unless you ignore the prequel trilogy (which Johnson is not doing) which turned the Force hereditary

 

Well, Return of the Jedi did it first.

[Schilkeman 964]

3 hours ago, HunterTech said:

• Both love Twin Peaks;
• Both love Burton's Batman movies;
• Both love Independence Day (and hate the sequel);
• Both hate The Last Jedi due to political reasons more than filmic reasons;
• Both disliked the Joker movie;
• Both think Star Trek is better than everything

 

Saw this for the first time last year and love it. I need to see the new series.

 

Batman 89 is great. Batman Returns is a Tim Burton ass Tim Burton movie, and I’ve never been a big fan.

 

ID4 is required July 4th viewing in my house. The sequel commits the cardinal sin of being boring.

I hate The Last Jedi. I have no problem with the politics of the film or it’s creator.

 

Haven’t seen it, probably won’t.

 

I only love two franchises more than Star Trek, but I tend to agree that Star Trek died when Voyager flew past the Golden Gate Bridge. I think Star Trek started running in to problems the minute it started looking backward instead of forward.

 

[Nick1Ø66 4,720]

2 hours ago, Schilkeman said:

Saw this for the first time last year and love it. I need to see the new series.

 

Batman 89 is great. Batman Returns is a Tim Burton ass Tim Burton movie, and I’ve never been a big fan.

 

ID4 is required July 4th viewing in my house. The sequel commits the cardinal sin of being boring.

I hate The Last Jedi. I have no problem with the politics of the film or it’s creator.

 

Haven’t seen it, probably won’t.

 

I only love two franchises more than Star Trek, but I tend to agree that Star Trek died when Voyager flew past the Golden Gate Bridge. I think Star Trek started running in to problems the minute it started looking backward instead of forward.

 

I like you @Schilkeman, and shall cheer for you. And shall watch your career here at JWFAN with great interest.

[Chen G. 3,950]

7 hours ago, Tallguy said:

Well, Return of the Jedi did it first.

 

I was going to say that in that film all we're told is that Luke's family has a particularly strong affinity to the Force, but then I remembered: "You have a power I don't understand and could never have" - "You're wrong Leia, you have that power too."

 

Oh well...

[Holko 9,529]

10 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

What I mean is, unless you ignore the prequel trilogy (which Johnson is not doing) which turned the Force hereditary, then you can't really make the argument "The Force is for everyone" because its not: some people have it, some people just don't. As a shorthand for egalitarianism, its a bad one.

 

Similarly, there's what's clearly supposed to be a morally-compromising moment where we find out that the Resistance...buys weapons...

Why would you have to be part of this specific order/cult though to be able to use it? Can't the Sith use it? Can't outsiders use it? Of course they can.

[Chen G. 3,950]

Yeah, but it still doesn't work as a shorthand for egalitarianism.

 

If some people just cannot possess the Force, the Force is not an egalitarian concept.

[Holko 9,529]

Maybe you're looking at it wrong? Watch Ratatouille and pay attention to the explanation of "anyone can cook".

[Brónach 1,302]

2 hours ago, Chen G. said:

Yeah, but it still doesn't work as a shorthand for egalitarianism.

 

If some people just cannot possess the Force, the Force is not an egalitarian concept.

 

I would have turned this into the plot for the sequels

[Naïve Old Fart 9,551]

Oh, no! Mattris lives! 

[Brónach 1,302]

who's Mattris? they didn't like the sequels either I assume?

[Naïve Old Fart 9,551]

Believe me, @Brónach, you really don't want to know who Mattris is 

[Brónach 1,302]

Mattris Reloaded

 

for the record, i don't like them, and i think whatever is cool in TLJ in isolation is really hurt by being sandwiched in there.

 

then again, i also don't like Return of the Jedi.

[Chen G. 3,950]

39 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Believe me, @Brónach, you really don't want to know who Mattris is 

 

Just have her look in my signature. Possibly the funniest shit I've read online.

[Brónach 1,302]

i'm a her. OH, THE SIGNATURE i entirely forgot about your signature LOL LMAO

[Holko 9,529]

TROS totally lost all the interest i had for the ST, it blew it all apart instead of even trying to tie them together.

I'm at a point where I'm ignoring running series, couldn't be bothered to start Mando S3, will actively avoid Ahsoka based on the trailer, don't care at all for the Rey movie because of TROS, and can't be arsed to try and figure out what movies and series are coming and when or try to care about them. Basically all future SW I can think of that I care about are Andor S2 and Jedi Survivor (and the future perfect MM expansions of the JW scores of course). Sad.

[Brónach 1,302]

I heard people rant against Andor very hard at first focusing on how it's made, and then i suddenly saw lots of love online and people enjoying that it had some fun with shooting locations. I may see it.

 

I can't with RISE OF SKYWALKER, very few times i've felt that depressed at the cinema. I'm particularly annoyed by how the movie chooses the most boring option every minute, and actively tries to make things harder for itself at times. (and i was bored with THE FORCE AWAKENS after about the first third).

[Tallguy 3,401]

14 hours ago, Edmilson said:

• Both love Twin Peaks;
• Both love Burton's Batman movies;
• Both love Independence Day (and hate the sequel);
• Both hate The Last Jedi due to political reasons more than filmic reasons;
• Both disliked the Joker movie;
• Both think Star Trek is better than everything

Continue.

 

• Only seen bits of Twin Peaks. I used to have friends who gushed about it.
• I love Batman '89. The highs of Batman Returns (most scene with Bruce and Selina) make me forget the parts that are wretched. And I like Christopher Walken.
• ID4: That's right and proper.
• I like The Last Jedi more than Rise of Skywalker. But I like Rise of Skywalker. The Force Awakens is an annoyingly good movie but it's a terrible foundation for a series. I love the OT, I hate the PT, and the ST are just movies that I can watch. They don't "matter". But Luke's story in The Last Jedi is the best thing in all three movies!
• Won't watch if you put a gun to my head.
• A lot of days, sure.

So I am most likely not either of these people.

 

Oh, even post-ROTJ / TPM anyone CAN have the Force. Not everyone DOES. And in the PT era if you did have the Force then the Jedi were going to want a word. For over a thousand generations the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice and making sure that they had a monopoly on the Force in the Old Republic.

[Nick1Ø66 4,720]

3 hours ago, Chen G. said:

If some people just cannot possess the Force, the Force is not an egalitarian concept.

 

[Giftheck 917]

1 hour ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Oh, no! Mattris lives! 

 

[Tallguy 3,401]

4 hours ago, Holko said:

Maybe you're looking at it wrong? Watch Ratatouille and pay attention to the explanation of "anyone can cook".

 

In many ways, the work of a JWFan poster is easy. We risk very little and enjoy no position whatsoever compared those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write and to read. But the bitter truth we posters must face, is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so.

 

Not everyone can become a Jedi, but a great Jedi can come from anywhere. It is difficult to imagine more humble origins than those of the kid sweeping the stable at Canto Bight, who is, in this critic’s opinion, nothing less than the finest Jedi in Star Wars.

[karelm 2,914]

I enjoyed this documentary...sort of a modern retrospective.

 

 

[Edmilson 7,470]

This made me lol:

 

[Edmilson 7,470]

Al Pacino Turned Down Playing Han Solo in ‘Star Wars’ Because He Couldn’t ‘Understand’ the Script

"They offered me so much money," the Oscar winner recalled. "I gave Harrison Ford a career."

[Groovygoth666 670]

2 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Al Pacino Turned Down Playing Han Solo in ‘Star Wars’ Because He Couldn’t ‘Understand’ the Script

"They offered me so much money," the Oscar winner recalled. "I gave Harrison Ford a career."

While I can't find it, I'm pretty sure Harrison Ford credited Donald P. Bellisario for his career, since he wouldn't release Tom Selleck from Magnum P.I. Pacino has talked before about turning the role down for not understanding the script. Robert Englund has spoken about his audition, and how he suggested to Mark Hamill he should audition for a role. Kurt Russell's audition itself has made it's way online. Glynn Turman has spoken about getting close to being cast. Burt Reynolds has also spoken about his audition. Christopher Walken and even Stallone have spoken about it. 

 

Kind of interesting that so many people have come out about auditioning for Solo, but there aren't many that talk about Luke or Leia?

[JNHFan2000 2,967]

I honestly thought she already had one.

 

 

 

[Tom Guernsey 2,286]

6 minutes ago, JNHFan2000 said:

I honestly thought she already had one.

 

 

 

Astonishing the people who do and don't have one to be fair... but this does seem massively overdue and would still seem so even if she hadn't died relatively young.

[Brando 1,864]

7 hours ago, JNHFan2000 said:

I honestly thought she already had one.

 

 

 

Yeah I feel like I saw this a few years ago, so I assumed they already gave her one as well.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,897]

Think I figured it out. Mark Hamill had his ceremony a few years ago, and both he and Harrison talked about Carrie in their speeches.

 

 

[Edmilson 7,470]

 

[Jilal 569]

Return of the Jedi was shown at Kinepolis in Ghent tonight in honor of its 40th anniversary, so I had to go and see it! They did show the oft-despised special edition, but that didn't bother me (save for, perhaps, the awful Jedi Rocks scene). It was really cool seeing it on the big screen for the first time and hearing John's magnificent score blast through the theater's speakers. The synergy of the underscore and the visuals gave me lots of goosebumps. Quite the experience for someone who grew up watching these movies on small television screens.

[Brando 1,864]

I saw it Friday night and yes, it was incredible on the big screen! I’ve seen it one other time for the marathon before TROS and that was the blu ray version, so seeing this was 10 times better with the better color grading.

[Tallguy 3,401]

50 minutes ago, Jilal said:

Return of the Jedi was shown at Kinepolis in Ghent tonight in honor of its 40th anniversary, so I had to go and see it! They did show the oft-despised special edition, but that didn't bother me (save for, perhaps, the awful Jedi Rocks scene). It was really cool seeing it on the big screen for the first time and hearing John's magnificent score blast through the theater's speakers. The synergy of the underscore and the visuals gave me lots of goosebumps. Quite the experience for someone who grew up watching these movies on small television screens.

 

Awesome. During the 80's and 90's they would do screenings every few years someplace. (I figure I've seeing Star Wars around 100 times on screen.) This was the first time I've seen an OT Star Wars film (SE or otherwise) projected since 1997.

 

It was wonderful.

[mstrox 6,651]

I had the Blu-ray version projected for a friend’s Bachelor Party, as it was the only one he hadn’t seen in theaters.  It got big boos from the crowd at the Hayden face replacement.

[Bespin 8,484]

28 minutes ago, mstrox said:

I had the Blu-ray version projected for a friend’s Bachelor Party, as it was the only one he hadn’t seen in theaters.  It got big boos from the crowd at the Hayden face replacement.

 

This never made sense for me, the goal of being a Force Ghost is to appear to someone who knew you, and to appear in the form they were used to see... so they can recognize you.

 

Luke never meet the young Anakin, so it makes no sense.

 

And for people watching the Saga in the order the movies came out, it make no sense to see Hayden Christenssen in ROTJ, WHO THE HELL THIS GUY IS???

 

We knew Lucas irreversibly lost his mind at the exact moment he had this idea of replacing Shaw in that final scene of ROTJ.

 

We can applause the imagination of Lucas, I always will.

 

But the guy clearly lost his mind and don't live an happy retirement.

 

He's a movie director that was never able to get out of Star Wars, all he did after was a failure.

 

Nobody in the business respects him, he seems to live in a constant hatred of people who have power, of "the system", of the "enslavers"... He's depressive and he's just a living caricature of himself.

 

He's not a fulfilled artist, he is a frustrated artist.

 

Can money buy happiness? Ask Georges Lucas.

Even John Williams seems to laugh at him a bit when he speaks about Lucas "he's not a man who speaks very much..."... "I don't know if you remember him...".

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

On 01/05/2023 at 5:47 AM, Edmilson said:

 

 

This is AI generated by the way. You wouldn't know it, unless you think about just how much time and effort would go into making something like this for real. It's a bit upsetting to be honest.

[Edmilson 7,470]

20 minutes ago, Docteur Qui said:

 

This is AI generated by the way. You wouldn't know it, unless you think about just how much time and effort would go into making something like this for real. It's a bit upsetting to be honest.

Oops, I didn't know it.

 

For me, people having fun with AI right now ("look at these incredibles designs for Marvel/Star Wars/DC/etc characters created by AI!!!") is like that scene in Titanic right after the collision where some kids are playing with a piece of the iceberg, kicking it like a soccer ball. They're doomed and having fun with the own thing that will doom them.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,897]

1 hour ago, Docteur Qui said:

 

This is AI generated by the way. You wouldn't know it, unless you think about just how much time and effort would go into making something like this for real. It's a bit upsetting to be honest.

 

In fact the voice that's narrating it is the default voice in ElevenLabs, which is the AI text-to-speech generator that I used for my April Fools post.

 

 

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

1 hour ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

 

In fact the voice that's narrating it is the default voice in ElevenLabs, which is the AI text-to-speech generator that I used for my April Fools post.

 

 

Hearing it in that fake Wes Anderson trailer made me think it was an impersonation of Alec Baldwin, or Jeffrey Wright. Even creepier that it's AI!