The Force Awakens First clip from The Force Awakens, containing Williams score premieres during American Music Awards

[Balahkay 627]

As it should. It's pretty good and I look forward to hearing the whole cue either on the album or in the film. Hopefully both.

[publicist 4,643]

I made the mistake of watching the about 0.3-second long scene and now think you are all bloody insane.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[publicist 4,643]

No wonder, you're here all the time.

[Incanus 5,715]

I made the mistake of watching the about 0.3-second long scene and now think you are all bloody insane.

What?!!! You couldn't extrapolate the upcoming album based just on those 0.3 seconds of music?!!! And you call yourself a Goldsmith fan!

[leeallen01 2,136]

When did it become 'cool' to dislike everything? I'm pessimistic and bitter, but declaring an emergency because of a few seconds of action music...

If Ep4 was released today, no doubt the educated elite of film reviewers would get out their dictionary of pretentiousness, and Rotten Tomatoes would be filled with stuff like; "With a villain so asthmatically over the top, and a plot that jumps from boring place to boring place, Star Wars falls as flat as the annoying whining of its main character."

And

"Set in a galaxy far far away, yet taking place solely in uninspiring earth-like deserts, grey corridors and countless cockpits, and forcing an 'ancient religion' so far down our throats that we may as well be talking to a priest, Star Wars proves that however much you try to shoot your plot through a deus ex machina that's only 2 metres wide, you will undoubtedly miss."

[Incanus 5,715]

What? What emergency? The clip sounds like JW and and I like it.

[leeallen01 2,136]

What? What emergency? The clip sounds like JW and and I like it.

There's nothing to like or dislike about it. It's just a standard few seconds that no doubt is bookended by brilliant action material. Every score in the world is filled with some standard few seconds here and there.

[Incanus 5,715]

What? What emergency? The clip sounds like JW and and I like it.

There's nothing to like or dislike about it. It's just a standard few seconds that no doubt is bookended by brilliant action material. Every score in the world is filled with some standard few seconds here and there.

Yes there is! Music from the gods!

[leeallen01 2,136]

What? What emergency? The clip sounds like JW and and I like it.

There's nothing to like or dislike about it. It's just a standard few seconds that no doubt is bookended by brilliant action material. Every score in the world is filled with some standard few seconds here and there.

Yes there is! Music from the gods!

I view Williams as a god as much as any sane human, but I'm doing everything in my power to be meh about it before I hear it all. I don't want to fall into the trap of hoping the score and the film will be the greatest star wars score and film of all time. I just want them to be solid and good.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Muad'Dib 1,802]

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Arpy 4,145]

You're insane, leeallen, everyone at JWFan is already a devotee to the dark lord Zimmer.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

I sort of hope the rest of the action music takes a more weighty tone than the 15 second clip (which I still like, I must stress). It seems to be more "Tintin" than "War Horse".

[mrbellamy 6,287]

I'm sure we'll get a variety as always. This is from the beginning of the film so I think a more spirited sense of adventure will be appropriate.

I wonder how the Finn/Kylo fight will be scored. I bet he's got something cool for that dramatic dolly move toward Finn as he turns on the saber.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

I'm sure we'll get a variety as always. This is from the beginning of the film so I think a more spirited sense of adventure will be appropriate.

I wonder how the Finn/Kylo fight will be scored. I bet he's got something cool for that dramatic dolly move toward Finn as he turns on the saber.

Will I be tarred and feathered for hoping the duel will at least go partially unscored?

[Jay 37,369]

I want Williams to score it, though Whether or not it plays better without score in the final cut is irrelevant (as long as we have the cue on CD)

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

I want Williams to score it, though Whether or not it plays better without score in the final cut is irrelevant (as long as we have the cue on CD)

Agreed. Hopefully there'll be prominent choral usage.

[mrbellamy 6,287]

I'm sure we'll get a variety as always. This is from the beginning of the film so I think a more spirited sense of adventure will be appropriate.

I wonder how the Finn/Kylo fight will be scored. I bet he's got something cool for that dramatic dolly move toward Finn as he turns on the saber.

Will I be tarred and feathered for hoping the duel will at least go partially unscored?

Not at all, I think that'd be really effective as well. But that dolly just screams for Williams badassery to me. I could totally see him building and building the music and then dropping off when their lightsabers hit or something.

It's a good point, though. It's hard not to look at the trailers and imagine what he might do for every single little moment, when of course certain moments will be best left unscored.

[JasonTHX 21]

I'm getting an "Anderton's Great Escape" vibe from this little bit of music. Anyone else?

[Balahkay 627]

I'm sure we'll get a variety as always. This is from the beginning of the film so I think a more spirited sense of adventure will be appropriate.

I wonder how the Finn/Kylo fight will be scored. I bet he's got something cool for that dramatic dolly move toward Finn as he turns on the saber.

Will I be tarred and feathered for hoping the duel will at least go partially unscored?

Not at all, I think that'd be really effective as well. But that dolly just screams for Williams badassery to me. I could totally see him building and building the music and then dropping off when their lightsabers hit or something.

It's a good point, though. It's hard not to look at the trailers and imagine what he might do for every single little moment, when of course certain moments will be best left unscored.

I think ESB has some good examples of scenes that work better without music even though Williams wrote excellent music for them.

[Jay 37,369]

Exactly.

[Jim Shooter 5]

I really miss Herbert Spencer's orchestration. Since his passing, Williams' scores sound different.

I wish HS orchestrated Ep. VII, it would sound more like the original trilogy.

This clip does sound like TKOTCS, which I don't like. Williams' action music sound very generic for me lately. Compare these to the Battle of Hoth or the Asteroid Field in TESB and you easily see the difference between the "old" Williams with Spencer and the "new" Williams with Conrad Pope. I prefer Spencer. Too bad he passed away a long time ago.

[crumbs 14,317]

He's dead, Jim.

I don't see the point getting upset about things out of anyone's control.

You're also judging a whole score on a 12 second clip. Stepping Stones in KOTCS sounds little like the other action cues, so you can't judge a score from one cue.

Personally, I reckon this cue sounds more like Raiders or Goldsmith's The Mummy with the Arabic flavouring, and nothing like the flatly recorded, generic orchestration of KOTCS.

[Jim Shooter 5]

I know that, crumbs.

I'm not upset, I'm sad. And I'm not judging the whole score, I said my opinion about Williams' action music I heard in this clip and his action music of late.

I hope the full score will be great, I really hope so. As a matter of fact, my one and only hope is in the score of that film.

[crumbs 14,317]

I'm not much of a fan of his modern action music either, but that's got nothing to do with his orchestrator and everything to do with his evolving style. We heard an entirely new style in War Horse, so I'm hopeful he'll continue experimenting down that path rather than rehashing his tired 2000's era action scoring.

I'm confident JJ was very specific about thematically driven scoring and action cues, so let's hope Williams acquiesced.

[Jim Shooter 5]

Where did you hear arabian flavouring in this clip? I didn't.

By the way it isn't like KOTCS. It sounds like an action cue from The Minority Report or The Attack of the Clones.

That's better, but still nowhere near his best.

Yes his musical style may be evolving, but it's not certain for the better. He may've reached his best form between 1975 and 1993 when he wrote masterpiece after masterpiece. Since then - with new orchestrators - his style changed and I'm not sure for the better. He is still very good, John Williams of course, but not the same he was before. That's not a bad thing, but I think he created his best scores between '75 and '93.

I hope Abrams wanted something similar to Return of the Jedi and asked Williams to evolve from that score.

And orchestration is very important.

Williams does a lot of the orchestration himself, but a good orchestrator can elevate a score with clever solutions. Herbert W. Spencer was a wonderful orchestrator who made Williams' great scores greater.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Oh dear...

[KK 3,307]

Good lord...what 15 seconds can do to the typical JWFanner...

[Incanus 5,715]

Good lord...what 15 seconds can do the typical JWFanner...

Marvels. Or horrors, depending on your outlook.

[Brónach 1,302]

Funnily enough, I've seen you people discuss 15 second sections after having access to complete cues.

[KK 3,307]

You mean the microedit stuff? I've always stayed away from those threads. Unless it displayed some miraculous musical brilliance....which is rarely the case.

[Brónach 1,302]

I even remember a thread a bout great extremely short snippets! But these don't make sense out of context.

[Marcus 390]

Where did you hear arabian flavouring in this clip? I didn't.

By the way it isn't like KOTCS. It sounds like an action cue from The Minority Report or The Attack of the Clones.

That's better, but still nowhere near his best.

Yes his musical style may be evolving, but it's not certain for the better. He may've reached his best form between 1975 and 1993 when he wrote masterpiece after masterpiece. Since then - with new orchestrators - his style changed and I'm not sure for the better. He is still very good, John Williams of course, but not the same he was before. That's not a bad thing, but I think he created his best scores between '75 and '93.

I hope Abrams wanted something similar to Return of the Jedi and asked Williams to evolve from that score.

And orchestration is very important.

Williams does a lot of the orchestration himself, but a good orchestrator can elevate a score with clever solutions. Herbert W. Spencer was a wonderful orchestrator who made Williams' great scores greater.

Just to clarify:

It's Williams' orchestrations, whether they be penned in full score by Spencer, Pope, Neufeld, Karam etc. The difference in style has only to do with Williams' preferences.

These have become less contingent on romantic-mid 20th century techniques (Tchaikovsky-Shostakovich-Polish 60s avant-garde) as Williams' own style matured (which is also why "Star Wars" is the least Williams-esque of the star wars scores). You may like or dislike his artistic evolution, but don't blame the orchestrators for his choices; they're his, not theirs.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Brónach 1,302]

If I can have action music here like Tintin I'll really enjoy this one.

[crumbs 14,317]

Yes. Only Williams is to blame if his music sounds like shit.

Unless Shawn Murphy mixed it.

[Incanus 5,715]

Yes. Only Williams is to blame if his music sounds like shit.

Unless Shawn Murphy mixed it.

Shawn has had his good and his bad days.

[crumbs 14,317]

Yes. Only Williams is to blame if his music sounds like shit.

Unless Shawn Murphy mixed it.

Shawn has had his good and his bad days.

Hard to believe the guy who mixed A.I. (yikes) also accomplished Azkaban, Predators, HTTYD1 & 2, and Pooh's Heffalump Movie.

Did he have grommets in 2001?

[WilliamHorne97 16]

Not going to lie I was scared about this score. I thought it would be tamed down. But this is a William's score! It sounds exciting and I can't wait to hear more. Lets hope the rest is as good as this

[Lewya 360]

Not going to lie I was scared about this score. I thought it would be tamed down. But this is a William's score! It sounds exciting and I can't wait to hear more. Lets hope the rest is as good as this

Why were you scared?

[Jim Shooter 5]

Where did you hear arabian flavouring in this clip? I didn't.

By the way it isn't like KOTCS. It sounds like an action cue from The Minority Report or The Attack of the Clones.

That's better, but still nowhere near his best.

Yes his musical style may be evolving, but it's not certain for the better. He may've reached his best form between 1975 and 1993 when he wrote masterpiece after masterpiece. Since then - with new orchestrators - his style changed and I'm not sure for the better. He is still very good, John Williams of course, but not the same he was before. That's not a bad thing, but I think he created his best scores between '75 and '93.

I hope Abrams wanted something similar to Return of the Jedi and asked Williams to evolve from that score.

And orchestration is very important.

Williams does a lot of the orchestration himself, but a good orchestrator can elevate a score with clever solutions. Herbert W. Spencer was a wonderful orchestrator who made Williams' great scores greater.

Just to clarify:

It's Williams' orchestrations, whether they be penned in full score by Spencer, Pope, Neufeld, Karam etc. The difference in style has only to do with Williams' preferences.

These have become less contingent on romantic-mid 20th century techniques (Tchaikovsky-Shostakovich-Polish 60s avant-garde) as Williams' own style matured (which is also why "Star Wars" is the least Williams-esque of the star wars scores). You may like or dislike his artistic evolution, but don't blame the orchestrators for his choices; they're his, not theirs.

Thanks for your reply, Marcus.

I know it's John Williams' orchestrations, it's his music after all, but the orchestrator, especially someone like the late great Herbert Spencer had some artistic freedom and input in terms of some musical solutions which might've been approved by John Williams. If orchestrations wouldn't matter why would he have given a cue for example to Thomas Newman in Return of the Jedi to orchestrate, if it had already been done by himself?

I know Williams orchestrates his own music and he has final say in everything, but a good orchestrator can give some options to the composer and sometimes it makes the music sound better but it can make it sound worse.

In my humble opinion after Herber Spencer passed away, Williams' scores started to sound a little bit different. I'm no expert whatsoever, I apologize to anyone who is, I can only rely on my amateur ears, and I feel that his music after circa 1993 started to become less powerful, as if less instruments had played, I don't know, again, I'm no musician, only a music lover. If you listen to Jaws, or Star Wars, or Close Encounters, or Raiders, or E.T., or Superman, etc. up until Hook, it's obvious even for an average Joe (or in my case, Jim), that these scores sound large in scale, larger than the ones that came after them. I know, there were the Star Wars prequels too, but I can detect the difference in orchestration even there too. Yes, this can be explained by the evolution of John Williams' orchestrational style, and I can accept that but I think it has something - not everything, but something - to do with the new orchestrators like Conrad Pope and/or John Neufeld.

I'm sorry if I offend anyone who has another opinion, but that's the way I feel. If it's John Williams (I know and understand it's his music), I accept it, I just don't like his newer scores as much as his scores of the '70s and '80s.

And especially his action music has become very generic and not at all that imaginative as in his older scores. Take the final war cues of Hook for instance. And while I sincerely hope that his music for Episode VII will be no less than magnificent, I remember the action music from The Minority Report, which was very good and from Crystal Skull, which was O.K., and I hardly remember anything from then on, because it was Williams emulating Williams, which is still way better than what for example the late good James Horner did repeating himself over and over again.

Don't get me wrong: John Williams is in a league of his own, always will be, but we have to accept the fact that he is not young and fresh anymore and his creativity has become less imaginative.

I'll know for sure after The Force Awakens. I consider it his swan song. His last Big Score. His farewell from film music. To me he'll always be a god. My musical god.

[steb74 53]

I think a lot of people would be surprised to find out that the magic they credit to being from only Herb Spencer and his involvement with Williams' scores from a certain period is really wishful thinking and perhaps a way to make a hard distinction that allows the idea of his death ending that particular Williams 'sound'.

Very often he was just one of a handful that contributed to that 'golden age' period, these three were huge contributors to those classic scores Al Woodbury, Fred Steiner, Angela Morley and probably orchestrated cues that people credit with the Spencer magic.

If you want to understand why Williams' style has changed, developed, evolved ......blah, blah, you need to look to him as a composer and not to the orchestrators.

As for the recorded sound of scores, well you could have a stellar mix but if the mastering is sub-par ...there's your problem.

I think Shawn M gets blamed for some of these issues when unfortunately the fault lies elsewhere.

[Jay 37,369]

Jim you need to take a look at some of Williams' sketches that have leaked. They contain complete orchestration information. For Williams scores, the credited orchestrators are little more than glorified copyists. They would tell you that themselves.

Sure, a score could have a cue or two JW doesn't have time to fully orchestrate himself. But that's the exception not the rule.

[WilliamHorne97 16]

Not going to lie I was scared about this score. I thought it would be tamed down. But this is a William's score! It sounds exciting and I can't wait to hear more. Lets hope the rest is as good as this

Why were you scared?

Because I thought it wouldn't sound like a traditional William's score. If this 16 second clip tells us anything, it's that the soundtrack and the movie are going to be a fun ride

[Damien F 1,742]

I'm not listening to 15 second snippets or samples. I'm waiting for either the OST or the movie. People are getting themselves into a tailspin over a tiny portion of the score. It is like judging a two hour movie based on a few seconds of footage.

[crumbs 14,317]

But it's the most innovative, bestest 15 seconds of music he's written in his whole career!!!

And The Force Awakens will be the best movie since Citizen Kane! Orson Welles, eat your heart out.

[Quintus 5,399]

Not going to lie I was scared about this score. I thought it would be tamed down. But this is a William's score! It sounds exciting and I can't wait to hear more. Lets hope the rest is as good as this

Finally someone has heard the score before formulating a view. Link please...

[WilliamHorne97 16]

Not going to lie I was scared about this score. I thought it would be tamed down. But this is a William's score! It sounds exciting and I can't wait to hear more. Lets hope the rest is as good as this

Finally someone has heard the score before formulating a view. Link please...

https://youtu.be/SIaFtAKnqBUenjoy