Holko 9,526 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 5 minutes ago, Jay said: It looks like JW never wrote any music for Hux's speech, which is odd. To me, as it is in the film, it feels like the previous cue would want to continue but it's sneakily mixed down at a convenient low point after it already scored a full sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,348 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 7 minutes ago, Holko said: To me, as it is in the film, it feels like the previous cue would want to continue but it's sneakily mixed down at a convenient low point after it already scored a full sentence. What is in the film is tracked from the opening of Kylo and His Sword (Droid Stole a Freighter). Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,316 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 11 minutes ago, Holko said: To me, as it is in the film, it feels like the previous cue would want to continue but it's sneakily mixed down at a convenient low point after it already scored a full sentence. There's no instruction to overlap into another cue at the end of I Have To Get Back, so we have to assume Hux's Speech was unscored. But who knows for sure. The score has many mysteries, with the film changing constantly during the 12 months JW was working on it. I haven't read the novelization but there's reference to lots of Leia material which never saw the light of day either (including a speech after the Starkiller destruction, where Leia informed the base that the Republic's entire fleet was destroyed in the attack... I wouldn't be surprised if Williams scored a lot of this early material, based on cue titles that have leaked). Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,316 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 3 minutes ago, The River (Fal) said: What is in the film is tracked from the opening of Kylo and His Sword (Droid Stole a Freighter). Yes, that crossfade is particularly jarring in the isolated score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,893 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 Has anyone attempted to create mockups for the unused cues/portions yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will 2,215 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 9 hours ago, Jay said: The music that we thought was unused music for Hux's speech, this one: It turns out it's actually 1M3AR The First Order Approaches, so it was written for the opening scene. It looks like JW never wrote any music for Hux's speech, which is odd. 5M40 The Beam Is Released! was replaced by Sunbeam Strings, though JJ ended up tracking some of it into the opening scene, you can hear it in FYC track 1 from 2:17-2:34 WOW. I'm stunned because (as I first discovered like four years ago!) the cue (apparently 1M3AR) fits very well with the parade grounds scene: https://www.dropbox.com/s/btwgjw1zpy89crx/Parade Grounds (Score Restore).mp4?dl=0 My best guess now is that the cue was originally written for the opening scene, but was then tracked by Abrams into Hux's speech (in a microedited form), and then finally Abrams decided to remove it from the film altogether. @The River (Fal) discovered, I believe, that the version in the YouTube video you link above actually contained some edit points where material was cut out, which would support (or at least not contradict) my new theory that the cue was at one point supposed to play over the speech scene (even if that wasn't JW's intention). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,348 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 26 minutes ago, Will said: WOW. I'm stunned because (as I first discovered like four years ago!) the cue (apparently 1M3AR) fits very well with the parade grounds scene: https://www.dropbox.com/s/btwgjw1zpy89crx/Parade Grounds (Score Restore).mp4?dl=0 My best guess now is that the cue was originally written for the opening scene, but was then tracked by Abrams into Hux's speech (in a microedited form), and then finally Abrams decided to remove it from the film altogether. @The River (Fal) discovered, I believe, that the version in the YouTube video you link above actually contained some edit points where material was cut out, which would support (or at least not contradict) my new theory that the cue was at one point supposed to play over the speech scene (even if that wasn't JW's intention). Fun fact, you can hear the theme from this cue in Finn and Poe United at the 2:57-end Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,242 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 2 hours ago, Will said: My best guess now is that the cue was originally written for the opening scene, but was then tracked by Abrams into Hux's speech (in a microedited form), and then finally Abrams decided to remove it from the film altogether. @The River (Fal) discovered, I believe, that the version in the YouTube video you link above actually contained some edit points where material was cut out, which would support (or at least not contradict) my new theory that the cue was at one point supposed to play over the speech scene (even if that wasn't JW's intention). Yeah, I think there’s a pretty good chance this could be the case! In support of this theory, we know ‘Sunbeam Strings’ / ‘The Starkiller’ was recorded towards the end of the sessions, and he chose the same key, F-sharp minor, which is not an especially common key, certainly not for Williams. So, perhaps he intentionally wrote the new cue to be able to segue smoothly from the end of 1M3AR, even though it wasn’t originally intended for this scene at all. Even as wonderfully over-the-top as Domhnall Gleeson’s performance is here, the very strident brass tends to obscure his monologue (JW always pays expert attention to keeping out of the way of dialog, in terms of both the volume and register of the music), so perhaps that’s why it ultimately went unused. Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will 2,215 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 58 minutes ago, The River (Fal) said: Fun fact, you can hear the theme from this cue in Finn and Poe United at the 2:57-end And in several other cues, I believe (e.g. "The Bombing Run"). My conclusion a few years back was that was a First Order theme/motif -- perhaps originally intended by JW to have a larger role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 You can also hear it here (in a passage that sounds pure Star Wars to me): Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will 2,215 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 Ah, yes, @Romão, that's one of the big ones I was thinking of but couldn't place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,242 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 31 minutes ago, Romão said: You can also hear it here (in a passage that sounds pure Star Wars to me): And one more (tracked?) instance, in 6M55R Council Meeting: Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted May 17, 2020 Author Share Posted May 17, 2020 That's definitely the First Order theme, I didn't realize that was something still up for debate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,242 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 39 minutes ago, Jay said: That's definitely the First Order theme, I didn't realize that was something still up for debate Right, @Falstaft has had this identified as motif for the First Order in the Catalogue of Star Wars themes for a long time now. It’s worth noting that many of the minor themes and motifs like this have no official names, but it’s still possible to make an educated guess at their meaning solely from usage. Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,348 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 7 minutes ago, BrotherSound said: Right, @Falstaft has had this identified as motif for the First Order in the Star Wars Catalogue of themes for a long time now. It’s worth noting that many of the minor themes and motifs like this have no official names, but still possible to make an educated guess at their meaning solely from usage. What does he call that other bouncy motif heard in the same cue (First Order Approaches) and others? Tension? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted May 17, 2020 Author Share Posted May 17, 2020 14 minutes ago, The River (Fal) said: What does he call that other bouncy motif heard in the same cue (First Order Approaches) and others? Tension? https://franklehman.com/starwars/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,223 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 Cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,223 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 On 5/11/2020 at 11:15 AM, Jay said: 1M1 Main Title 1M1A 1M1A v2 (Longer) 1M1A v3 1M1A (Free Version)Starry Night 1M2R 1M2R (New Ending)'Hand' Opening 1M2A Fix 1M2B (untitled) 1M3A 1M3AR The First Order Approaches 1M3B 1M3BRThe Attack on the Village 1M3CI’ve Seen Too Much 1M3DThe Attack on the Village 1M4 1M4RThe Arrival of Kylo Ren 1M4AIntroductions or Introduction 1M4BLanding 1M4DFix on Fix 1M5 1M5 Alt New Intro 1M5 Alt 2 1M5 Alt 2 Insert 1M5 Alt 2RThe Scavenger 1M6 1M6 AltSeeing A Mother and Getting Rations 1M6 AltROne Quarter Portion 1M7 1M7 Flute VersionLunchtime with Rey or Lunchtime 1M8Breakfast 2M11Don’t Follow Me 2M11R 2M11R AltBB + Rey or BB & Rey or BB and Rey 2M12Poe Under Torture 2M12A (Old) 2M12A (Preferred) BB & Rey Cont. 2M13 2M13RThe Droid Is Not For Sale or This Droid Is Not For Sale 2M14R Alt Intro 2M14R Alt Intro v2 Finn Helps Poe 2M14 2M14R I Can Fly Anything 2M15 2M15R 2M15R InsertThe First Escape 2M16 I Don't Know What To Do 2M17 2M17RKylo Ren 2M17A 2M17ARFinn's Trek 2M17BKylo And Hux On The Bridge 2M18AThat Lady with the Stick 2M18BWho's Luke Skywalker 2M18C 2M18CR 2M18C Insert 2M18C Insert IIFollow Me 3M20 3M20RThe Falcon Still Flies! 3M21 3M21RWhat's Your Name 3M22 3M22RKylo and His Sword 3M23 3M23RNo, No...No! 3M24 3M24RHiding Under the Grate 3M26 3M26RYou're Han Solo? 3M27Rathars Appear 3M28The Rathars Attack or The Rathtar Attack 3M28A 3M28AROld Falcon to the Rescue 3M29 3M29RLeia, C3P0 and R2 4M30 4M30RSnoke 4M30AStarkiller Reading the Map 4M31R 4M31RR The Map Scene 4M31A 4M31A (New Ending)Talking With Grandfather 4M32 4M32RGreen Planet or The Green Planet 4M33 4M33R You Gotta Name? or You Got A Name? 4M33R InsertGotta Name? 4M35RMaz on the Table 4M36R I Ran Into You 4M37 I’ve Found the Droid 4M38 4M38RInto the Cellar 4M38A 4M38ARRey’s Dream 4M39 RI Have to Get Back 5M40 5M40 (New Ending)The Beam is Released 5M41Leia’s Condolence Speech 5M43R (Fix)Find Rey! 5M43A (Fix)Maz's Treasure Chest 5M44 5M44 Alt Intro v1 5M44 Alt Intro v2Kylo Arrives at the Battle 5M45R v1Back to Battle 5M45R Alt Finn Fight Alt 5M45 FixFinn and Trooper Fight 5M46RKylo Stalks Rey 5M47 5M47 v2 5M47 Possible InsertGood Guys Shooting 5M48We’ve Got What We Need 5M49 5M49R 5M49A Fix 11-5-15The Abduction of Rey 6M50R 6M50R v2Han & Leia Reunion 6M51 6M51RFinn and Poe, United 6M52R2 in Hibernation 6M53RParental Discussion 6M53AWe See Rey 6M54 6M54RRey vs. Ren 6M54A New 6M54A RBring Her to Me 6M54BYou Will Remove These Restraints 6M55RCouncil Meeting 6M56 6M56RPreparing for the Mission 6M56BR v1 (new ending)Kylo’s Rage! 6M56C FixedTo Lightspeed 6M56DIce Landing 6M56ERen In Cockpit 6M56FHey! 6M57 6M57RRey’s Rope Climb 6M57R Alt EndingRey On Wall 6M58The Bombing Run 7M60Hug Later 7M61Guns A’blaze 7M62I Can Get Us In 7M62A 7M62A InsertOn the Inside 7M62BShootout 7M65Father and Son 7M65ALeia’s Grief 7M65BFather and Son 7M65CLeia Fix 7M66The Control Room and Ren in the Forest 7M67Rey Vs Ren 7M67RIt Is You 7M67ARey vs. Ren 7M67B Rey Gets the Saber 7M67BF Rey Catches Sword 7M67CBlowing Up The Oscillator 7M68Flying Home 7M68ALight In The Snow and Flying Home 8M72Finding the Map 8M73The Complete Map 8M74Climbing the Mountain 8M74A 8M74A v2To Ending 8M75End Credits Part 1 End Credits Part 2 Finale (9-23-15) Finale (11-11-15) Finale Tag 8M77 The Resistance Theme 8M78Snoke 8M79Rey's Theme Rey's Theme (6-6-15) Rey's Theme (Piano Version 9-14-15) Rey’s Theme (10-7-15 longer version) 8M80 8M80A (First Ending) 8M80A (Second Ending)Scherzo for X-Wings 8M81Sunbeam Strings That's really cool! On 5/16/2020 at 8:44 AM, Jay said: The music that we thought was unused music for Hux's speech, this one: It turns out it's actually 1M3AR The First Order Approaches, so it was written for the opening scene. It looks like JW never wrote any music for Hux's speech, which is odd. 5M40 The Beam Is Released! was replaced by Sunbeam Strings, though JJ ended up tracking some of it into the opening scene, you can hear it in FYC track 1 from 2:17-2:34 Really? Wow. How do you know that? I'm just curious. TSMefford 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAvengerButton 175 Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 I thought up a fitting nickname today for the little First Order ditty that plays throughout this film. As opposed to just calling it the "First Order" motif, I think it rather represents a more abstract idea of a new evil power rising in the galaxy. Indeed, the theme kind of has a quality of resurrection about it as the melody ascends upwards, only to curl down with the last note, as if a wraith had risen from it's resting place to haunt the galaxy once more. Therefore, I christen the First Order theme as, "Rising Power". It's not a bombastic march like the Imperial March because I don't think that's the impression that we are supposed to have of the First Order. This is an evil that has "risen from the ashes of the empire" as the opening crawl puts it. It's an inevitable, funeral-marching machine of death. Much more doom-like than it's more bombastic predecessor, the Imperial March. And it even evolves slightly in the guise of the Anthem of Evil, an equally lumbering, zombi-fied yet more fully formed evil theme that still gets to be more bombastic when appropriate. Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,348 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Pando 141 Posted June 10, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 10, 2020 Earlier version (1M5 Alt2 R) of The Scavenger cue from The Force Awakens. Dune slide is different and it's overall slightly longer than the released version. Chewy, BrotherSound, Will and 5 others 4 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Remco 685 Posted June 10, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 10, 2020 Wow, I’m so happy that for the final version he used the introduction of Rey’s theme on synth celeste instead – it was a magical moment seeing that in cinema. Especially considering the actual first statement of the long melody of the theme is stupidly covered by sound effects. Will, Cerebral Cortex, ZenLogic101 and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan 689 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 How have I been completely unaware of the more complete edit lurking around out there? Of course I'm not scouring Google. No sir... An official expanded release can not come fast enough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igger6 894 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 On 5/21/2020 at 3:45 PM, TheAvengerButton said: I thought up a fitting nickname today for the little First Order ditty that plays throughout this film. As opposed to just calling it the "First Order" motif, I think it rather represents a more abstract idea of a new evil power rising in the galaxy. Indeed, the theme kind of has a quality of resurrection about it as the melody ascends upwards, only to curl down with the last note, as if a wraith had risen from it's resting place to haunt the galaxy once more. Therefore, I christen the First Order theme as, "Rising Power". It's not a bombastic march like the Imperial March because I don't think that's the impression that we are supposed to have of the First Order. This is an evil that has "risen from the ashes of the empire" as the opening crawl puts it. It's an inevitable, funeral-marching machine of death. Much more doom-like than it's more bombastic predecessor, the Imperial March. And it even evolves slightly in the guise of the Anthem of Evil, an equally lumbering, zombi-fied yet more fully formed evil theme that still gets to be more bombastic when appropriate. After listening to the isolated-score version of The Last Jedi for the first time this weekend, I realized for the first time how often that motif recurs in the second film. I probably heard it three or four times at least. Does it show up in its original form in TROS as well? If not, what an odd choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Pando 141 Posted June 11, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 11, 2020 On 12/29/2015 at 3:26 PM, Jay said: Alright, I finally had time to finish my second pass through the film, and have completely revamped the complete cue list in the main post. A few spots I had thought were unreleased before are actually on the OST, and the whole list now takes into account what we learned from the FYC. 2. The opening 39 seconds of OST track "The Scavenger": Anyone feel like almost doesn't belong here? It's possible this bit was intended for the scenes of Rey in the Star Destroyer but was dialed out, but I wonder if it could actually be for some entire other scene I haven't identified yet? 02. The Scavenger (3:39) [0:00-0:39] = unknown, possibly unused opening of: [0:39-2:21] = cue 7 Rey The Scavenger (FYC 03) [2:21-end] = cue 8 Lunchtime (FYC 04) I matched up the clip I posted earlier to video, and it seems to match so well it looks like a cartoon. No original sounds or SFX in the video, just music. Observe these cues with music (pure speculation though): - Rey tears off stuff - Drops from rope - Lands - Suspense growing, leading to scarf removal - Flute playing during drinking - Slide down - Lands - Rey gets up from the sled (steps) - Rey puts junk to the net (placing the stick has a clear musical accent) - Engines starting - Drives away - Distant view - Steelpecker - Rey drags the junk - Only the end cleaning sequence probably have video cuts as the audio is longer But this is not what you see in the movie, and I'd agree that it works better: no music in the beginning, and the dune slide with the piano/celeste playing Rey's theme as it sets the pacing much earlier. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dK0tdcys6K1yyL2o2vK5ZVhx6t25hcTq/view?usp=sharing BrotherSound, ZenLogic101, Cerebral Cortex and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAvengerButton 175 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 22 hours ago, igger6 said: After listening to the isolated-score version of The Last Jedi for the first time this weekend, I realized for the first time how often that motif recurs in the second film. I probably heard it three or four times at least. Does it show up in its original form in TROS as well? If not, what an odd choice. Are you referring to this tune: Or this ditty: because to my understanding, the latter plays pretty frequently throughout The Last Jedi AND shows up in a select few moments in TROS. Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeH 768 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 On 6/10/2020 at 4:18 PM, Remco said: Especially considering the actual first statement of the long melody of the theme is stupidly covered by sound effects. Sound effects have gotten absurdly overcooked. Listen to when Rey puts her staff in the net in that scene. Unfortunately the problem will never be solved unless you get knowledgeable directors who really understand how everything should work together. Remco 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,348 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 1 hour ago, TheAvengerButton said: Are you referring to this tune: Or this ditty: because to my understanding, the latter plays pretty frequently throughout The Last Jedi AND shows up in a select few moments in TROS. And The Post Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igger6 894 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 @TheAvengerButton I meant the former, actually, the one you called "Rising Power." To be honest, in my mind, the latter one never really rose above the formless masses of Williams "musical action figures," so to speak―those little four- and five-note motifs that he'll fixate on from time to time, especially in The Last Jedi. I don't think @Falstaft has included any of those in his catalogue, since they all seem to signify nothing more or less than "wars are happening amid stars!" If I recall, though, folks around here classified one of them as the "Quidditch" melody back in 2017, based on its similarity to "Quidditch, Third Year." But back to the First Order motif. It pops up here and there in TLJ, almost always in fragmented but recognizable form. If you have access to the iso score on Disney+, there's a moment at exactly 20:00 when Rey is filling Luke in on the current war, and when she says soon the First Order will control everything, we get the first half of the theme (a rise and a half, if you will). It shows up again right after Leia's "death," when Hux is discussing continuing the bombardment around 31:07 on the iso score. I don't know if either of these moments appears on any of the OST or FYC tracks. There are more, but those are the first two I noticed listening to it as I type this. Falstaft 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Falstaft 2,132 Posted June 12, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 12, 2020 4 hours ago, igger6 said: I don't think @Falstaft has included any of those in his catalogue, since they all seem to signify nothing more or less than "wars are happening amid stars!" If I recall, though, folks around here classified one of them as the "Quidditch" melody back in 2017, based on its similarity to "Quidditch, Third Year." Oh, no, they're all accounted for They do have quite a lot in common with each other (and with generic Williams action & suspense music too). Assigning them motivic status is complicated by the fact that they interact with and may be derived from or sources for other more clearly articulated leitmotifs. But that's what the "Incidental Motif" category exists for! The tension/resistance deployed/resistance in trouble motif in particular gets an incredible work out in TLJ: nearly 40 occurences, and almost double that if you include local repetitions. I'm not sure the First Order theme gets much play after TFA, and even there is clearly a thematic afterthought whose biggest appearance didn't even make the final cut. The moments you cited in TLJ seem in the right ballpark but are inexact in terms of contour and pitch content compared to the First Order theme proper. That said, the little motif at 31:07 is quite similar to a brass figure in The Battle of Crait that I hadn't noticed until now, so you are on to something! BrotherSound, igger6 and Remco 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pando 141 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 On 6/10/2020 at 2:47 PM, Alan said: How have I been completely unaware of the more complete edit lurking around out there? Of course I'm not scouring Google. No sir... An official expanded release can not come fast enough! What do you mean? There's no way to know if a recording of it will ever be released, or if it was even recorded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igger6 894 Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 Oh, wow, @Falstaft, I totally missed the incidental motif section. This deal is getting better all the time! BrotherSound 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Pando 141 Posted June 24, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 24, 2020 An even earlier, completely different version of 1M5 that was eventually discarded. Kind of interesting to hear Vader's theme all over it. DrTenma, Falstaft, CGCJ and 12 others 9 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 26 minutes ago, Pando said: An even earlier, completely different version of 1M5 that was eventually discarded. Kind of interesting to hear Vader's theme all over it. It's like Rey's Theme minus the theme! BrotherSound and MikeH 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew 590 Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 What sample library did you use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artguy360 1,843 Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 Hearing these different versions of The Scavenger remind me of HP3 and how several scenes were re-scored until they found their way to A Window to the Past. Sounds like a similar thing happened with this scene and Rey's theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeltington 1,440 Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 If you want top-tier Williams, make him redo it a couple times! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Falstaft 2,132 Posted June 24, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 24, 2020 I'm honestly a little surprised this isn't getting more play here! The fact that we have a completely different version of "The Scavenger" (and, kind of by extension, a completely different version of Rey's Theme) from TFA strikes me as a major revelation! Even if it's only hearable right now in (quite good!) MIDI mockup form. And, from the little I know about TFA's unheard material, I can say this is 100% legit. I've been debating including this theme in my catalogue since I learned of it. Maybe I need a new section of curiosities and alternates! The unused lydian Rey & BB8 theme from TFA could go in there too... I've whipped up my own little melodic transcription if anyone's curious. The theme has grown on me quite a lot. I'm not sure it's as fitting as Rey's ultimate theme, or as novel, but it's more immediately ear-catching. Seems JW's initial instinct was to go highly ambiguous & chromatic (love that F7/A-F#m cadence!) in his representation of her, and later settled on the more modal final version. @Ludwig, I'm really interested in hearing your thoughts, and if you detect any elements of Rey's ultimate leitmotif in this apparent provisional version... I swear, when the full recording sessions of the Sequel Trilogy ever come out, especially TFA and TROS, it's going to be an unbelievable source of discovery for JW fans. Ludwig, Jay, crumbs and 8 others 8 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,512 Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Ludwig 1,120 Posted June 25, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Falstaft said: @Ludwig, I'm really interested in hearing your thoughts, and if you detect any elements of Rey's ultimate leitmotif in this apparent provisional version... Funny thing is, I don't hear any of Rey's theme in this alternate. There are, however, some slight similarities to March of the Resistance. The melody starting the theme's 2nd half (0:19-0:20 in Pando's mockup) begins with the same notes as the march's 2nd half. If we wanted to push the similarity further, you could say the opening of the theme is somewhat similar too, starting from the tonic note and rising up to the fifth of the scale, complete with a sharp going back up to the fifth note of the scale again (this is the thing @Tom was talking about before in another thread). And hey, even the first three notes of the theme are the same notes in a different rhythm. Also, the 8 bars of this version are also structured the same way as March of the Resistance's first 8 bars: 2 bars - Main idea 2 bars - Main idea slightly varied 2 bars - Faster chord changes 2 bars - Cadence I mention this because this kind of structure (which in music is called a "sentence" for the non-theorists here) has been, despite the march's example, rare for Williams for many decades now, so the connection rather stands out. Even so, though this looks like a lot of evidence, I wouldn't read too much into it. I think this theme has much more to do with a kind of "misterioso" sound Williams likes to invoke. In fact, I'd say this theme has more than a shade of the mystery-laden Unicorn's theme from Tintin in both the contour of the tonic chord and the use of his favored Hungarian minor for elements of mystery. One of the things I admire most about Williams is his ability to clothe cues in an entirely different musical wardrobe, so to speak. It very much looks like he was asked to simply write something in an entirely different vein for this version, so he complied, and instead of producing a reworking of what we know as Rey's theme, produced something wildly different in almost every way! Tom, Falstaft, Pando and 2 others 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pando 141 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 On 6/24/2020 at 6:53 PM, Ludwig said: And hey, even the first three notes of the theme are the same notes in a different rhythm. The first 3 notes also match the original Batman theme BrotherSound 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeH 768 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 That’s a pretty cool lick at 0:51! BrotherSound 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,242 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 22 hours ago, Pando said: An even earlier, completely different version of 1M5 that was eventually discarded. Kind of interesting to hear Vader's theme all over it. While I think they definitely made the right call here, I really like this Harry Potter-ish cue, too. Thank you @Pandofor a great mock up! Shame this theme didn’t get recycled for The BFG the following year. Seems like it would have fit perfectly! Pando and Falstaft 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 It sounds like it would play over the introduction of the Order of the Phoenix in The Order of the Phoenix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falstaft 2,132 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 @Ludwig, you never disappoint! Love that you're able to offer this fascinating and high-level analysis so quickly! 12 hours ago, Ludwig said: Funny thing is, I don't hear any of Rey's theme in this alternate. There are, however, some slight similarities to March of the Resistance. Yeah, I've failed to find any resemblances to Rey's theme in this tune either, either obvious or obscure either. It truly does sound like an entirely different musical "angle" on her character. BrotherSound 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted June 25, 2020 Author Share Posted June 25, 2020 It's really fascinating to learn that Rey's Theme, one of JW's best and most memorable themes in recent years, didn't even exist until a completely other idea for her was completely fleshed out and then replaced. I wonder what JJ said about it as JW demoed the cue on his piano (or would he have heard it via JKMS mockup?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pando 141 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 What's also interesting is that no trace of this theme exists in the rest of the soundtrack, in any form. The current Rey's theme is found in quite a few cues. So not only was this a complete rewrite of The Scavenger cue, it must have been a bigger project to rewrite all others as well. Or perhaps this was done early enough before the rest of the cues weren't yet written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted June 25, 2020 Author Share Posted June 25, 2020 Are you sure the ideas from this version don't crop up again in 1M6 Seeing A Mother and Getting Rations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeltington 1,440 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 Book Thief... here's where I've heard the opening of that melody before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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