Wojo 2,453 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 He's just pissed the yellow emperor made fun of his helmet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeallen01 2,136 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Does anyone get some Jurassic Park vibes in TLJ? I swear the 4 note raptor motif is in there somewhere and this of course at 0:08 - Reminds me of this motif at 0:41 - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bofur01 245 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Snoke is a raptor confirmed? DolceMecha 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeallen01 2,136 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 The example I showed above isn't the raptor motif. The Raptor motif is a different 4 note motif. I'm looking for it now in TLJ. I swear I heard it a few times. Also the percussion and brass fanfares towards the end of A New Alliance is very Lost World. I would love that if Rey dies in Ep9, then something like the end of 'Finale' plays as she dies. The emotional high strings of her theme, and then those 'to be continued' chimes and harp of her secondary theme at the end as she transforms into the force. I think what Williams did with her music at the end of 'Finale' would completely fit a scenario like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post thx99 1,740 Posted January 9, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 9, 2018 FWIW... For The Last Jedi, Williams recorded 138 minutes of music with the orchestra, which Williams says “is something of a record.” Source: http://www.waltdisneystudiosawards.com/media/pdf/SW_PRODUCTION_NOTES.pdf aviazn, TownerFan, Will and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 2 hours ago, leeallen01 said: Does anyone get some Jurassic Park vibes in TLJ? I swear the 4 note raptor motif is in there somewhere and this of course at 0:08 - It surely reminds of Williams' typical gestures when it comes to put music for baddies. Interesting use of augmented fourth (aka "diabolus in musica"). The motif here sounds like a development of Snoke's musical material. 15 minutes ago, thx99 said: FWIW... For The Last Jedi, Williams recorded 138 minutes of music with the orchestra, which Williams says “is something of a record.” Source: http://www.waltdisneystudiosawards.com/media/pdf/SW_PRODUCTION_NOTES.pdf Thanks for pointing out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,950 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Didn't he record just as much for Return of the Jedi? and even more for The Force Awakens? Also, is Williams misremembering when he says: "“Rey has a theme, Kylo Ren has a theme, Finn has one, Rose has one." Either he's refering to that "pursuit" ostinato from The Force Awakens (which I don't recall at all in this), or he is talking about new material from this film which relates to Finn, which again I certainly can't point to, or he's misremembering slightly. Interesting that he doesn't mention Holdo as having a theme, I'd say it's a case for naming that motif as "desperation", but than ex silentio isn't my favorite way of proving a point. James 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Trust in Williams. If he says Finn has one, it's there somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,950 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Sure, but it could have also slipped his mind. It happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,318 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Maybe he just confused Finn with Poe? Seems more likely. The part about the 138 minutes being a record is a little confusing... he recorded something like 178 minutes for TFA. Maybe he meant music included in the final film? Also, I'll amuse myself by imagining Williams was making passive-aggressive jabs about JJ to Rian with those comments about leaving all the music in the film -- which Rian very faithfully did! And also how well it was mixed! Especially considering how much brilliant music JJ removed from TFA, and how much was buried under sound effects. Can't imagine Williams was overly pleased with either, so it's interesting/encouraging that both issues were resolved in TLJ. Quote The last day of recording on films is always a bit emotional for Williams, and for the orchestra as well. “We’ve been together for so many years,” says Williams. “We’ve finished a lot of films together, so there’s always a sense of satisfaction in coming to the end of the musical journey of it. But there’s also the sense of feeling sorry that we won’t be meeting again next week to record some more Star Wars music. We have to look forward to the next episode.” Well, I guess we don't need to worry about Williams not signing on for IX then. He seems very attached to Star Wars these days, indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Balahkay 627 Posted January 9, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 9, 2018 I hope Abrams gives the score for Episode IX the same treatment Johnson did for TLJ but I'm not holding my breath given what happened with TFA. I had no doubt Williams would do Episode IX especially when he announced his writing the main theme for Solo. His interest in Star Wars is still very strong. I'm glad he's not tired of it after 8 episodes! Will, leeallen01, crumbs and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,950 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Yes, it was nice to see him elaborate on his experience with the score. Very interesting. As for Abrams mixing, I don't mind that the director dials out certain parts of the music. There's certainly stuff that you want unscored, be it in the spotting session or during the mixing of the finished film. Think about how the music for Frodo standing on the shores of the Anduin was removed. What I do mind is where there is music and its just buried. To the casual audience, the music in that film is a none-entity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taikomochi 1,136 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Yeah there are points in TFA where I know music is playing, but it’s so buried in the sound mix that I’m not entirely sure why it’s even there. It doesn’t have any effect on the overall sound design of the film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,318 Posted January 9, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 9, 2018 It absolutely contributed to the widespread opinion from the masses that the score was "unnoticeable", because it gets very few opportunities to shine in the mix. Even earlier tracks like The Scavenger are mixed rather quietly, when there are few sound effects at all. If you add back in just a couple of cues, like Finn vs Stormtrooper Captain, Hux's Speech or Han's alternate death, the opinion of the score would've been quite different I think. DarthDementous, James, Tiburon and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,950 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 But its a valid complaint, whether it's one derived from the music itself, or from the way it was mixed. The point of leitmotivic writing is that you see something onstage or onscreen as the leitmotif is playing for the first one or two times, and come to associate an element (apparent or underlying) from those moments with the leitmotif. As it continues to occur, it gathers more and more associative power. If you can't hear the music, no matter the reason, that associative power of the music is completely lost, even as you listen to it again on the album. James 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offline 29 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 I must have amazing speakers. I would hardly call TFA buried in the mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remco 685 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 3 hours ago, Chen G. said: But its a valid complaint, whether it's one derived from the music itself, or from the way it was mixed. The point of leitmotivic writing is that you see something onstage or onscreen as the leitmotif is playing for the first one or two times, and come to associate an element (apparent or underlying) from those moments with the leitmotif. As it continues to occur, it gathers more and more associative power. If you can't hear the music, no matter the reason, that associative power of the music is completely lost, even as you listen to it again on the album. Not sure what you mean here - it’s a complaint yes, but not one that you can aim at the composer, right? In my case, I’ve listened to TFA’s soundtrack far more than I’ve seen the movie but I’m perfectly capable of associating it with the things I’ve seen in the movie. Some very strange decisions were made in there though: who thought it was a good idea to completely cover the very first phrase of Rey’s theme with the overpowering sound of a speeder? Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balahkay 627 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Scherzo for Xwings may as well not played at all. I had no idea it was hacked to pieces until the FYC. Shorter, yes, but the sound mix buried all those horrible edits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,318 Posted January 10, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Remco said: Some very strange decisions were made in there though: who thought it was a good idea to completely cover the very first phrase of Rey’s theme with the overpowering sound of a speeder? This specific moment really bugs me as well, because if any rendition of her theme deserved to be heard it was the establishing one! Williams wrote such a delicate, restrained introductory cue, obviously assuming this relatively dialogue-free section of the music would be kind to his score. He probably wonders why he bothered. It reminds me of the crap Burtt used to pull, like dialling out the Death Star battle music just to boost his stupid engine noises, or lava noises on Mustafar (though thankfully we had Kenny rallying for us). And of course Scherzo for X-Wings is the worst offender, which clearly pissed off Williams if his concert anecdote is any indication (which is just his diplomatic way of venting disappointment). Remco, Breadstick Basilisk, Will and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offline 29 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 I literally just watched TFA a few days ago and had no issues with the mixing during the moments you guys are describing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balahkay 627 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Don't know why not... for me... Blu-ray, TV broadcast, theater, etc., the music overall has very little presence in the film mix, unlike TLJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 That was the first instance I noted too, Rey's Theme in The Scavenger is marred by the sound fx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 But let's be honest, TLJ is not a fair comparison. The musical experience in cinema was awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,950 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 7 hours ago, Remco said: Not sure what you mean here - it’s a complaint yes, but not one that you can aim at the composer, right? In my case, I’ve listened to TFA’s soundtrack far more than I’ve seen the movie but I’m perfectly capable of associating it with the things I’ve seen in the movie. You're too focused on absolving the composer. What truly matters is the final product which, to me, at least - is the film mix, not the album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remco 685 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 2 hours ago, Chen G. said: You're too focused on absolving the composer. What truly matters is the final product which, to me, at least - is the film mix, not the album. I'm not absolving JW, just saying the volume at which the score is mixed in the movie and its musical qualities are separate things. Clearly, the very same score would have had more impact in the movie if other people than Williams (Abrams, sound editors) had given it more room to be present. As it is now, I find TFA's score music of exceptional quality, yet the movie doesn't really reflect that well. But frankly speaking, I've always been a fan of the music first so my priorities are maybe different than yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Will 2,215 Posted January 11, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 11, 2018 22 hours ago, Remco said: Some very strange decisions were made in there though: who thought it was a good idea to completely cover the very first phrase of Rey’s theme with the overpowering sound of a speeder? Oh, definitely, glad to see there are some others here who really cringe at that. Tiburon, Bofur01, Remco and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offline 29 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 others here? It seems like I might be the only one here who thinks it's fine as it is. Lol. I must be the mad one Will and Docteur Qui 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will 2,215 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Well, just depends on your standards. I tend to have very high standards (nearly always dashed) for film mixes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offline 29 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Wouldn't you believe it, but I do as well. But I dont think anything is TFA is nearly as buried as Klingon Chase from Into Darkness. That was truly horrendous. Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,318 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Did TLJ have a different sound mixing team? Or is it likely JJ drove those decisions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 7 hours ago, zeekypttr5678 said: Wouldn't you believe it, but I do as well. But I dont think anything is TFA is nearly as buried as Klingon Chase from Into Darkness. That was truly horrendous. Yes, it's a shame because that cue is so propulsive and the chanting adds to the mayhem of the chase. Ben Burtt was the sound designer on Into Darkness and The Force Awakens, coincidence? James 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James 119 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 It's much worse when you see it dubbed. Even the sound effects are lost. Other day I watched Blue Sky's "Robots" and lost my patience trying to listen to some music of JP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docteur Qui 1,544 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Just found this article about Burtt not being sound designer on Rogue One or TLJ: https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/12/ben-burtt-star-wars-sound Confirmed: John Williams called Kathy baby and got her to fire Burtt after he saw what happened to "Scherzo for X-Wings". EDIT: Actually it looks like he didn't work on TFA either, he was just credited for his trademark sound effects I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,530 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 He's a bloody genius with sound design, he's a legend as long as he's forbidden to be within 2 kilometers of the editing/mixing rooms. mstrox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 2 hours ago, Docteur Qui said: Just found this article about Burtt not being sound designer on Rogue One or TLJ: https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/12/ben-burtt-star-wars-sound Confirmed: John Williams called Kathy baby and got her to fire Burtt after he saw what happened to "Scherzo for X-Wings". EDIT: Actually it looks like he didn't work on TFA either, he was just credited for his trademark sound effects I guess. He provided some new sounds, but most of what he did wasn't used. As the article points out, he's been silently kicked out from Star Wars, even though he maintained his position at Skywalker Sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurkensalat 340 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 On 9.1.2018 at 2:12 PM, thx99 said: FWIW... For The Last Jedi, Williams recorded 138 minutes of music with the orchestra, which Williams says “is something of a record.” Source: http://www.waltdisneystudiosawards.com/media/pdf/SW_PRODUCTION_NOTES.pdf hm, the Variety piece from yesterday says 184 min of music. which is right? 138 sounds more like the number of minutes of score in the actual movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,318 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Yeah I'm inclined to think that's music in the final cut and it is actually a record for Star Wars music left in the final film. TFA only had about 115 minutes in the film. Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Holy crap, I only just realised right now that The Spark is The Imperial March, heroicised. OMG John Williams is an absolute BEAST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,950 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Is it? If that's true, what on earth would be the thematic logic of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remco 685 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 It isn't, for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docteur Qui 1,544 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Also... It's not really. The main three notes of the Imperial March (in the key of G) are G - Eb - Bb, which outline a major triad. The Spark (in G) is G - D - Bb which outlines a minor triad. One note different, but a very different effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,722 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Pity about Ben Burtt. In some ways he's as responsible for creating the "sound" of Star Wars as Williams. All those organic noises in an era when most sci-fi films had a cheesy electronic sound design. He wasn't as important as Williams, of course...but still vital to the success of those movies. Kind of sad that someone who was so influential in creating Star Wars is just kind of sadly toiling in some dark office. Hollywood is brutal. He's clearly out of favour with the new regime. I wonder what happened. I do know that he made some awful choices when he mixed the OT Blu-Ray, including turning up his sound design and turning down Williams score. Not to mention swapping the left and right channel during a key moment of Williams score. Maybe JW held a grudge and threw him under the bus like he did Giacchino! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 I don't hear the bloody notes of The Imperial March. Just a similar syncopated driving rhythm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 7 hours ago, Docteur Qui said: Also... It's not really. The main three notes of the Imperial March (in the key of G) are G - Eb - Bb, which outline a major triad. The Spark (in G) is G - D - Bb which outlines a minor triad. One note different, but a very different effect. I pointed that out. I don't think it is the same. One note difference but a big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 10 hours ago, Chen G. said: Is it? If that's true, what on earth would be the thematic logic of that? In spirit, his Father is with him when he goes out to be a badass. In case you hadn't noticed, Luke is a bit of a narky git in TLJ. 9 hours ago, Docteur Qui said: Also... It's not really. The main three notes of the Imperial March (in the key of G) are G - Eb - Bb, which outline a major triad. The Spark (in G) is G - D - Bb which outlines a minor triad. One note different, but a very different effect. A musician's response. I'm not strictly talking about the notes; there are clear shades of Vader's theme here in the tone and patterns. Listen to the moody aesthetics, the rhythms, it's all over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 I still can't hear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,318 Posted January 15, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 15, 2018 I don't see how anyone couldn't hear the parallels; it was obvious as far back as the second trailer. I even raised the idea that the motif might be a sampled reworking of something Williams wrote for TLJ. We're talking about the son of Darth Vader committing the ultimate sacrifice by "confronting" the grandson of Darth Vader (to save his sister and the Rebellion). The shadow of Darth Vader looms large upon the entire sequence, so fittingly the shadow of his theme looms heavily upon the score. John, Not Mr. Big, Bofur01 and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,530 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Yeah, the trailer makes it a bit more obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 42 minutes ago, Stefancos said: I still can't hear it. Wow, disappointing! Listen to the beginning of The Spark (right after Han and Leia's theme plays, I mean) and have the opening 6 notes of The Imperial March in your mind as you do. Once the link is made, it cannot be unheard. 17 minutes ago, crumbs said: We're talking about the son of Darth Vader committing the ultimate sacrifice by "confronting" the grandson of Darth Vader (to save his sister and the Rebellion). The shadow of Darth Vader looms large upon the entire sequence, so fittingly the shadow of his theme looms heavily upon the score. THIS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 I dunno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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