Josh500 1,615 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Sometimes I like them (Duel of the Fates), sometimes not so much (The Adventures of Han Solo). What do you think of JW's false endings? Which are your favourites, least favourites? And why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,369 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 My thoughts? Quote Sometimes I like them, sometimes not so much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 He tends to overdo it with false endings. The best one is at the end of the Scherzo in the Jane Eyre suite. That one is brilliant. Josh500 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted June 22, 2018 Author Share Posted June 22, 2018 Just now, Steve McQueen said: He tends to overdo it with false endings. That is my feeling as well. So what else do you like except Scherzo from JE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loert 2,515 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 I wish he'd stop doing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 50 minutes ago, Steve McQueen said: He tends to overdo it with false endings. Sometimes. In music, just like in film, its all too easy to succumb to the temptation to make the false ending too grand and overwrought. If you're going for a false ending, than it should get the listener/viewer to go "is that all there i...oh, wait, there's more!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 26 minutes ago, Josh500 said: That is my feeling as well. So what else do you like except Scherzo from JE? The ending of the Scherzo for Piano and Orchestra is very effective, I think. The ending of the Cello Concerto seems an extension of the general idea. He seems to do it best when he puts extra thought in it. Josh500 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted June 22, 2018 Author Share Posted June 22, 2018 Just now, Steve McQueen said: He seems to do it best when he puts extra thought in it. That doesn't apply to just JW, but to all of humanity! 1 minute ago, Steve McQueen said: The ending of the Scherzo for Piano and Orchestra is very effective, I think. Yeah, I like that too. But that piece is overall fantastic, false endings or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Porkins 53 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 The Forest Battle from ROTJ wins this hands down for trying to trick us with it's ending. Mitth'raw'nuorodo and Wojo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,802 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 I think it's one of those things that he finds humorous, like he likes to trick the listener into believing it's over. But just when they thought it was safe to go back to applauding.... Breadstick Basilisk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post MikeH 768 Posted June 23, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 23, 2018 I can just imagine what it’s like to live in the house of Williams and overhear him composing these endings... plink plonk...plonk.....PLONK! ........... *soft chuckles* ............ PLONK! The Illustrious Jerry, Smeltington, The Psycho Pianist and 3 others 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Score 770 Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 11 hours ago, Josh500 said: Sometimes I like them (Duel of the Fates), sometimes not so much (The Adventures of Han Solo). What do you think of JW's false endings? Which are your favourites, least favourites? And why? I like the one in DotF, mostly because it doesn't sound as a false ending to me, it's more like the closing of a section of the piece, before the final section. I dislike all the others that come to my mind, especially the one at the end of Hedwig's theme (the few bars that follow are completely unnecessary) and the Forest Battle (the piece is too short for having two conclusions). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 ESB end credits. Battle of the Heroes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 The end of Tintin wasn't really necessary. Mitth'raw'nuorodo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted June 23, 2018 Author Share Posted June 23, 2018 14 hours ago, Muad'Dib said: I think it's one of those things that he finds humorous, like he likes to trick the listener into believing it's over. But just when they thought it was safe to go back to applauding.... I don't think it's humorous or funny.... It's more about catching the listener unawares, keeping them on their toes, making them feel surprised and impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 DOTF runs long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted June 23, 2018 Author Share Posted June 23, 2018 7 hours ago, Score said: I like the one in DotF, mostly because it doesn't sound as a false ending to me, it's more like the closing of a section of the piece, before the final section. I dislike all the others that come to my mind, especially the one at the end of Hedwig's theme (the few bars that follow are completely unnecessary) and the Forest Battle (the piece is too short for having two conclusions). I agree with you. I think that's the key... If after the false ending, something follows that's worth listening to, something to look forward to, then it's worth it. Then I don't mind. But if after the false ending nothing of note follows (no pun intended!) except a few minutes of fooling around, then it was overall unnecessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 The one in Hedwig's Theme is great Josh500 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,802 Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 11 hours ago, Quintus said: The end of Tintin wasn't really necessary. But it's so good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoltan_902 141 Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 This was very interesting for me with Han Solo's Theme; the quiet (fade out) false ending made me think 'that can't possibly be it', and it made me look forward to a witty surprise ending (which JW is sometimes consummately skilled in doing), but sadly when all subtlety was thrown out with the timpani solo at the end, I lost all hope of that. Then alas, the piece came to the clichéd long-note-crescendo/orchestra hit final note. In other words, I'm a big fan of a witty surprise ending, but a false-ending as a means to this is cheap and lazy. The ending to The Forest Battle in RotJ impressed me, if for no other reason that it was a fitting and clever, and managed to overcome the loud obnoxiousness of what was the climax of the piece. Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,914 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 My favorite is E.T. with that build up into total silence then a second build up to the rainbow fanfare. SteveMc and Holko 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 23 minutes ago, karelm said: My favorite is E.T. with that build up into total silence then a second build up to the rainbow fanfare. Yes! totally forgot about that one. May just be the best of all. Jediwashington 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted June 24, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 24, 2018 Return of the Jedi was the best false ending. MikeH, SteveMc and Chen G. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 On top of my head the one I don't like is Forest Battle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,287 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 I think they're funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 I think they're Williams insulting his audience! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeH 768 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 Hmm. I don’t know if I consider the moments in Battle of the Heroes and Dracula’s End Titles to be false endings but if they are I love ‘em. Adventures of Han is a great piece but that false ending is a bit much. But yeah I absolutely love that big brass and string climax in the Dracula End Titles if one considers that a false ending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 Duel of the Fates is one I don't like. The false end should have been the actual end. It gets too redundant after that and the effect is lost as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,483 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 "John Williams's False Ending". You mean when he will die and we'll realize he's eternal and still living, because of his music? 😏 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 He will outlive us all though his music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,483 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 41 minutes ago, Stefancos said: He will outlive us all though his music. Amen. PS: My discography is also eternal, but please take a backup of it from time to time. Holko 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 You have a discography? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,483 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 39 minutes ago, Stefancos said: You have a discography? Don't bring me a step backward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 Have a non-alcoholic beer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,483 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 😜 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,044 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 I go back and forth on the false endings. They can feel a little excessive. What false ending are y'all talking about with "The Forest Battle", BTW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 You're serious? The last 40-50 seconds. Famously used in the AOTC Clone War trailer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 27 minutes ago, Batman's Diet Coke said: You're serious? The last 40-50 seconds. Famously used in the AOTC Clone War trailer. I remember a friend at the time thought that was brand new music. He wasn't familiar with the ROTJ soundtrack, only what was heard in the film. He didn't believe me when I said that music was 19-years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,044 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 41 minutes ago, Batman's Diet Coke said: You're serious? The last 40-50 seconds. Famously used in the AOTC Clone War trailer. I'm serious - and confused. I don't hear anything 40-50 seconds before the end of the piece (or anywhere else in it, for that matter) that could be mistaken for an ending. It builds and builds in a way that sounds very natural and satisfying to me. The only time it even comes close to a fakeout is at 3:34. But who in their right mind would end a concert suite on a chord like that? Maybe I'm misunderstanding the question...to me, a false ending is a passage near the end of a piece with a decidedly "final" sound to it, typically followed by just enough near-silence for you to momentarily think the piece could be over. So DOTF, Hedwig's Theme, The Adventures of Han (sorta), the end credits to Raiders or 1941 (or even SpaceCamp or Home Alone), Yoda's Theme, The Chamber of Secrets, etc. There's a clear pattern here, and I don't see how The Forest Battle fits in at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,287 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 2 hours ago, Datameister said: I'm serious - and confused. I don't hear anything 40-50 seconds before the end of the piece (or anywhere else in it, for that matter) that could be mistaken for an ending. It builds and builds in a way that sounds very natural and satisfying to me. The only time it even comes close to a fakeout is at 3:34. But who in their right mind would end a concert suite on a chord like that? Maybe I'm misunderstanding the question...to me, a false ending is a passage near the end of a piece with a decidedly "final" sound to it, typically followed by just enough near-silence for you to momentarily think the piece could be over. So DOTF, Hedwig's Theme, The Adventures of Han (sorta), the end credits to Raiders or 1941 (or even SpaceCamp or Home Alone), Yoda's Theme, The Chamber of Secrets, etc. There's a clear pattern here, and I don't see how The Forest Battle fits in at all. I think with Forest Battle, it's not like some of the others where there's a clear "final" sounding chord before the extra ending(s) that you could literally cut the track off and it would still pretty much sound like a complete piece, but more like there are a few points where you just think "Ok this feels like it's about to hit the end" and it keeps chugging. 3:50 is the biggest fake-out to me with that long snare roll, musically that just feels like it could easily be gunning for a big strong chord and yet there's still more to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,044 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Maybe I've just listened to the piece so many times that I'm used to it. To me, though, it all sounds perfectly inevitable. I'd feel shortchanged if it stopped any sooner - especially considering how fantastic all the "extra" writing ended up being. Not Mr. Big 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve H 24 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Always preffered the film version of the main title from Superman The Movie over the false ending we got on the 2LP original soundtrack. SteveMc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Illustrious Jerry 3,356 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 At first glance, one might mistake the title of the thread to be "John Williams False Teeth". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 I guess if one is dyslexic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Illustrious Jerry 3,356 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 The Adventures of Han no longer tricks me, because that ending percussion and brass is absolutely awesome. Adventures of Han and The Forest Battle come to mind. Muad'Dib 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrJosh 892 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 14 hours ago, Datameister said: Maybe I've just listened to the piece so many times that I'm used to it. To me, though, it all sounds perfectly inevitable. I'd feel shortchanged if it stopped any sooner - especially considering how fantastic all the "extra" writing ended up being. I guess I must be the same, I never heard The Forest Battle as having a fake-out ending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 I hear it. It totally switches gears at the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jediwashington 59 Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 On 6/23/2018 at 7:11 PM, karelm said: My favorite is E.T. with that build up into total silence then a second build up to the rainbow fanfare. Yep... This one wins for me. He really makes the listener think its just going to be a piano attack like the end of Firebird (a la Stravinsky), but it's just another scale and fanfare. Just incredible taste. Love every second of this score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted June 26, 2018 Author Share Posted June 26, 2018 On 6/24/2018 at 9:11 AM, karelm said: My favorite is E.T. with that build up into total silence then a second build up to the rainbow fanfare. Hmmm, that's great, but is that a false ending, though? It's just JW scoring the picture.... and there just happened to be a brief, quiet, somber moment before the rousing spectacle of an ending! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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