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Harry Potter 7CD Collection - MUSIC discussion


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1 hour ago, Space Pineapple Prod. said:

 

My setup is likely a bit more primitive than yours. I use Logic Pro and sync up the audio to exactly when the music hits. Then I just play the movie until it goes out of sync and I know an edit must be made. Then I mute the audio and export it and everything is good.

 

I mean I do it pretty similarly for the most part, honestly. It's slightly more precise I guess, since I get it lined up to produce phasing and when the phasing effect ceases, it indicates pretty much the exact point an edit is made. The real tricky part about Azkaban has been random single notes that are pitch-shifted and what not (The Knight Bus intro, Double Trouble March, and Buckbeak's Flight so far). Also having to do a lot of fake endings for things (like Snowball Fight).

 

With the Double Trouble toad version, I actually grabbed the 5.1 mix and noticed the toads were only in the center channel (the thunder and fx were all in the surrounds and the left and right mains) so initially I had tried to line up that extracted center channel with the LLL track and ran into a lot of phasing issues (since the center channel was already present once in the track). So what I ended up doing to solve the issue was going into the End Credits 5.1 mix and pulling everything but the center channel when Double Trouble plays cleanly. This way I am essentially replacing the clean center channel with the toady center channel. A little bit of a gate on the last toad croak to filter out the applause and wallah! 

 

Sorry, my inner music editor nerd is coming out.

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The whole thing is still surreal to me, that I would even be asked to work on something so large and important!  The whole thing came together extremely quickly (especially for 7 discs / 8 hours of mu

This set is the best album I have ever bought. It’s still unreal to me that all of my favourite music from my childhood is newly remastered and released. I’ve been looking forward to discussing every

Williams wrote that music for the deleted Sir Cadogan scene.  The cue was then tracked into two different spots in the final cut, one of which was artificially slowed down.   The little 10 s

Just watched some of POA (the 4K disc is a stunner btw).

 

I never realised how chopped up the music is! For example, in 'Trouble Takes Many Forms' the end of 'Dumbledore's Warning' and most of what I assume is 'Double Trouble March' aren't even in the film.

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8 minutes ago, Alan said:

Just watched some of POA (the 4K disc is a stunner btw).

 

I never realised how chopped up the music is! For example, in 'Trouble Takes Many Forms' the end of 'Dumbledore's Warning' and most of what I assume is 'Double Trouble March' aren't even in the film.

 

I suppose that explains why the podcast version is shorter

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31 minutes ago, Alan said:

Just watched some of POA (the 4K disc is a stunner btw).

 

I never realised how chopped up the music is! For example, in 'Trouble Takes Many Forms' the end of 'Dumbledore's Warning' and most of what I assume is 'Double Trouble March' aren't even in the film.

 

First off, I'd love to watch POA in 4K. That sounds fantastic.

 

Secondly, yes. I'm discovering almost everything is shortened or changed in some way. Just off the top of my head what I've discovered so far:

  • Aunt Marge's Waltz
  • The Knight Bus
  • The Knight Bus Ride, Newspaper Headliner, Squeeze Play, Second Collision
  • The Book Attacks
  • The Dementor Appears
  • Double Trouble March
  • Rainy Nights, Dementors, and Birds
  • Double Trouble on the Hill
  • Befriending the Hippogriff
  • Riding the Hippogriff (Buckbeak's Flight)
  • Sir Cadogan
  • Spider, Snake, Clown out of the Cupboard
  • Snow Fight
  • Brief Snow Scene

 

The list keeps going. I swear in the first two films it's mostly just cutting things out or looping things and some tracking (I could be wrong), but Azkaban is quickly turning into quite a lot. They've done the usual cutting and tracking, but they've also grabbed a note or section here and there and pitch shifted them to help bridge an edit or make an edit sound more unique. They've also started slightly messing with the tempo as well. I'm talking stretching or speeding up from 100% to like 101% or something. It's extremely intricate. Not all the edits are badly done (a few are though). It's just meticulous.

 

It makes me really curious what the film itself was like when the score was recorded. Seems like it was a much looser cut.

 

22 minutes ago, MedigoScan said:

 

I suppose that explains why the podcast version is shorter

 

Yep. Precisely. The Podcast includes the film edit that is shortened and with the tracked & pitch shifted section.

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I'm curious to see Azkaban in 4K!

I must admit, when I discovered the only real 4K HP movies are the first two, and the others are just upscaled ('cause their digital master is in 2K),
I was disappointed so I never bought the UHD boxset, and chose the Bluray one instead.
But I bet Azkaban in 4K still has bonkers colors and detail!

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17 minutes ago, Jay said:

Almost every cue in POA was edited down in some way for the final film.  Williams scored a rough cut and Cuaron kept trimming and trimming the film, tightening up every scene, as post-production went on

 

Yep! Definitely seems that way when you look at it. I'm just surprised by the intricacy of some of the edits. Befriending the Hippogriff even has an extra Harpsichord flourish in the film. No idea where it's from, but didn't feel compelled enough to look for it.

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9 hours ago, Incanus said:

 

Please refrain from personal insults gentlemen. And discuss the music of Harry Potter here in a respectful manner. Isn't there enough in the music of John Williams to celebrate without this constant petty bickering. 

 

Right. Banter absolutely has to be answered with Nazi ridicule. A right you are.

 

Holy crap.

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2 hours ago, TSMefford said:

First off, I'd love to watch POA in 4K. That sounds fantastic.

 

1 hour ago, redishere said:

I'm curious to see Azkaban in 4K!

 

Viewing party at my place (if you can get to Coventry, UK 😂)!

 

Without getting too off topic it comes from a 2K DI, unlike 1 & 2 which were native 4K negative scans, but POA in 4K with HDR looks for all the world like the best film print of the movie in your home. The cinematography really lends itself to what HDR can do with deep shadows and highlights. The colours are lovely too.

 

Anyhoo, back to the music. I'm finding that watching the movie actually killed the small impulse I had to make my own edit of the score. It was never going to replace Mike's programme for me, but I considered doing it as an alternative option to the programme on the discs and to satisfy my editing hobby.

 

I'm just going to stick with what Mike gave us. It genuinely feels to like like to best way to listen to this music, which I suppose should come as a surprise to no one.

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11 minutes ago, Alan said:

 

 

Viewing party at my place (if you can get to Coventry, UK 😂)!

 

Without getting too off topic it comes from a 2K DI, unlike 1 & 2 which were native 4K negative scans, but POA in 4K with HDR looks for all the world like the best film print of the movie in your home. The cinematography really lends itself to what HDR can do with deep shadows and highlights. The colours are lovely too.

 

Anyhoo, back to the music. I'm finding that watching the movie actually killed the small impulse I had to make my own edit of the score. It was never going to replace Mike's programme for me, but I considered doing it as an alternative option to the programme on the discs and to satisfy my editing hobby.

 

I'm just going to stick with what Mike gave us. It genuinely feels to like like to best way to listen to this music, which I suppose should come as a surprise to no one.

 

I am going through with the film edits mostly as a learning experience and because it genuinely interests me, but many of them are just not good edits (Buckbeak's Flight being a big example). I will probably listen most often to a chronological playlist with only a couple film versions (like Something Wicked Intro and Double Trouble combined, The Boggarts and Source mix, the version of Brief Snow Scene with the tracked ending, etc.) and plenty of Mike's combos, many of which I do really like. Plus, a couple of my own random edits. (Alternate Firebolt attached to the credits, etc.)

 

On that topic, what are everyone's favorite combos? I like Trouble Takes Many Forms and The Three Broomsticks. Very well blended.

 

Also @Jay I was listening again and noticed the new material in beginning of the "The Boggarts". I had always assumed the one on the OST was just missing the sinister opening underscoring Snape exiting the cupboard, but does the opening of the Boggarts actually contain "Snape Dresses Up" and an alternate of it back to back (0:00-0:42 & 0:43-1:22)? Or was is it all one cue? That's another excellent blend by Mike if it's two cues. I just breezed past that the first few times I heard it.

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20 minutes ago, TSMefford said:

what are everyone's favorite combos?

 

With you on TTMF - a great solution to the short cue problem and I even like the title he chose for it. Seems obvious now but I had no idea looking at the track list before listening that it was going to be a mini compilation of the DT appearances

 

I like Aunt Marge's Waltz [Alternate] for the same reason. Those two tiny cues combined with the alternate start of the waltz make a brilliant combination.

 

The problem I have identifying many others is that I forget that he's combining different cues out of chronological order or presenting back to back alternates when I'm listening. Case in point - The Big Doors. You'd not know you were hearing different versions of the same cue unless either it was pointed out or you knew what to listen for.

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10 minutes ago, Alan said:

 

With you on TTMF - a great solution to the short cue problem and I even like the title he chose for it. Seems obvious now but I had no idea looking at the track list before listening that it was going to be a mini compilation of the DT appearances

 

I like Aunt Marge's Waltz [Alternate] for the same reason. Those two tiny cues combined with the alternate start of the waltz make a brilliant combination.

 

The problem I have identifying many others is that I forget that he's combining different cues out of chronological order or presenting back to back alternates when I'm listening. Case in point - The Big Doors. You'd not know you were hearing different versions of the same cue unless either it was pointed out or you knew what to listen for.

 

Exactly. The set is really really well done. Honestly, I was a bit annoyed with everyone before the set was released seemingly writing off have the short cues separated because they're so short, but after hearing everything, I do get it. It can feel a bit disjointed at times and works far better in the film, so combining the thematically similar ideas like The Grim and Newspaper, Trouble Takes Many Forms, The Courtyard and Sir Cadogan, The Three Broomsticks, The Wizards Consort, etc. really does work well and it's better when you're just listening and enjoying the music. It is also done in such a way that if I want to lob most things out on there own to be more analytical, then I totally can.

 

It really is outstandingly done. 

 

Also I agree on TTMF. Totally hit me as an epiphany shortly before the set was released on the double meaning. Hehe. 

 

14 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

Yes

 

Cool! Thanks for answering. So many hidden gems. Again, well blended and presented. Great choices by Mike here.

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What about Stone and Chamber?

 

I can't recall hearing any combinations in the POA sense but I suppose those films were not scored in quite the same way and tend to have longer cues. I'm definitely glad that cues were combined in to longer pieces though, like Quidditch, Year 2 from Chamber of Secrets. Talk about a showstopper!

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34 minutes ago, Alan said:

What about Stone and Chamber?

 

I can't recall hearing any combinations in the POA sense but I suppose those films were not scored in quite the same way and tend to have longer cues. I'm definitely glad that cues were combined in to longer pieces though, like Quidditch, Year 2 from Chamber of Secrets. Talk about a showstopper!

 

Oh yes! I think I prefer it to the original from HP1. I mentioned it earlier, but CoS just feels so much more raw and loose in the performance and makes it more fun and powerful sometimes to listen to. This is especially evident in the Quidditch cue. They just go wild! Yes it's always nice to make those multipart cues stitched together as they were intended. 

 

As far as combos I don't think there are a whole lot in the first two. I do enjoy little things like that new bit in the beginning of the Diagon Alley cue though, if that counts.

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6 minutes ago, Docteur Qui said:

Of all the musical ideas that did make it to all three films (apart from Hedwig’s theme), who’d have thought that the Invisibility Cloak would be it? Just listened to “The Three Broomsticks” again and noticed that it’s not just the ghostly synth gesture that makes a return but the whole harmonic/melodic idea. I’m guessing this has been known since the sheet music leaked but I wasn’t really around for that so this is news to me! 

 

Unfortunately it actually only appears for like 2 or 3 seconds in the actual film. I believe they dialed out most of the appearance that we have on the LLL set.

 

Does Nimbus 2000 count as something that made it in all three? I'm pretty sure it is. 

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Just now, TSMefford said:

 

Unfortunately it actually only appears for like 2 or 3 seconds in the actual film. I believe they dialed out most of the appearance that we have on the LLL set.

 

Does Nimbus 2000 count as something that made it in all three? I'm pretty sure it is. 

 

 

Yeah I figured it wasn’t in the actual film.

 

I was counting Nimbus 2000 as part of Hedwig’s theme, but technically yes you are right, that’s another one.

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5 minutes ago, crocodile said:

One more thought about Azkaban. I am actually tempted to insert the source music into the main programme. It's such an eclectic score anyway and I feel it really blurs the line between diegetic and non-diegetic.

 

Karol

 

I absolutey adore the recorder solo in “the Courtyard and Sir Cadogan”, for some reason it really hits me emotionally! It’s like hearing the Past theme for the first time all over again, I just love it.

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About the criticism of COS' use of the stone motif ... isn't the stone motif also a theme is sorts for Voldemort? It appears in the face of Voldemort and its children suite track. I'm not a fan of the film but musically the ominous "three note loop" always sounded evil to me and related to the badguy.

In other words..."meeting tom riddle" in COS is thematically perfect.  Speaking of this track , anybody also expects the raiders march to kick in the end? XD

 

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3 minutes ago, Docteur Qui said:

The film really blurred the lines between diagetic and non-diagetic music. I could write a thesis on it! Actually that’s not bad, nobody steal my idea!

 

It's a great observation; the blend of diegetic and non-diegetic music is one of the score's greatest strengths. Clearly something Williams worked very hard to achieve, per Cuaron's direction. I haven't listened to Azkaban yet but I'm curious about whether MM ever toyed around with inserting all the source music into the main program.

 

The final result is a mix of the two, with the flute source included and the rest (barring Shawm) relegated to the extras. @Jay did Williams have some input here or were these decisions just made on a case-by-case basis?

 

I love that the flute source is in the main program too, considering the heavy usage of flute throughout the score (so it fits right in). Although from memory its placement in the tracklist is earlier than in the film proper (I think the scene is right before Buckbeak's Sentence) but I'm sure this was for listening experience purposes.

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1 hour ago, crumbs said:

I love that the flute source is in the main program too, considering the heavy usage of flute throughout the score (so it fits right in). Although from memory its placement in the tracklist is earlier than in the film proper (I think the scene is right before Buckbeak's Sentence) but I'm sure this was for listening experience purposes.

 

Yes in the film it’s as Ron/Hermione argue whike they walk through the courtyard to see Hagrid at the lake. Chronologically would go between “Summoning the Patronus” and “Buckbeak’s Fate and The Marauder’s Map”

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Thought so! Well that would be jarring in chronological order IMO, so whoever decided to move it further up the program (and not relegate it to the extras) made a very sound decision.

 

A bit like including the Christmas music box from HP1 in the main program rather than the extras. I just love the choice of sequencing throughout the set; so much thought has gone into the musical presentation that chronology becomes irrelevant.

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5 hours ago, crocodile said:

One more thought about Azkaban. I am actually tempted to insert the source music into the main programme. It's such an eclectic score anyway and I feel it really blurs the line between diegetic and non-diegetic. It feels almost like a theatre play score.

 

Karol

This is what I'm going to attempt to do as well. As you note, the line between source music and score is quite blurred. Also, I find the current track order to be a bit bumpy and hearing the music presented this way makes me understand a little better JW's own thinking with the PoA OST. I think it is a bit difficult to get a good flow going with this score.

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1 hour ago, Alan said:

Listening to COS again. 'Harry Is a Parselmouth' is an unexpectedly lovely track! Really a re-working of one of my favourite Stone cues so it's nice to have that basically with a track to itself ;)

 

The end of the following track, Petrified Justin, is also a stand out and feels quite "golden age" Williams to me.

 

I just got to this track and had to do a double-take! Some years back, I made an edit of the score using the sessions and this cue wasn't there. I created a mock-up of it (though yeah, it's a reworking of one of my favorite SS cues) and thought it wasn't ever recorded. 

 

It came on and it was such a nice surprise and delight to hear! It's like my poor-sounding mock-up was brought to life. It's a gem, I'm really glad it was recorded!

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Neither it nor Ransacked Dormitory, nor The Chamber Opens were included in the leak, we thought they all ended up being tracked. I'm very much looking forward to hearing the former two, having already salivated over the latter, even if I dislike the way it's included on the set.

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14 minutes ago, Holko said:

Unfortunately me neither - obviously recreating tracking as intended was not in the cards and putting it in the bonus section would be weird, but this way it's just a buildup to no payoff.

 

Just listened to it again. Yeah it's a little weird this way, but look at the bright side. It could have been included crossfaded into something and no one could make the film version out of it, but if you have the chops. Just blend "The Stone" into it and you're good to go.

 

I appreciate Mike allowing us the ability to make these choices...although I'm sure that wasn't his end goal. lol. His end goal seems to be of course to just present everything in the least repetitive way (So, no tracking) while preserving Williams' intentions. This just so happens to mean that we have clean openings and closings for almost everything.

 

Besides having "The Stone" tracked in, I think this is the ideal way to include it.

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4 minutes ago, TSMefford said:

but if you have the chops. Just blend "The Stone" into it and you're good to go.

I already did and shared the result!

It's a peculiarly weird case, since the cue was only ever recorded in the first place to replace the buildup portion of the always intended tracking from The Stone, presenting it on its own in the main program just doesn't seem to make that much sense.

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1 minute ago, Brundlefly said:

I wouldn't have thought that the second score is the longest of them all WITHOUT tracking.

 

For some reason that makes sense to me. Especially with the CoS film being the longest one.

16 minutes ago, Holko said:

I already did and shared the result!

It's a peculiarly weird case, since the cue was only ever recorded in the first place to replace the buildup portion of the always intended tracking from The Stone, presenting it on its own in the main program just doesn't seem to make that much sense.

 

I guess I could see that.

 

Also cool! I didn't see that. Must've missed it. I'll look for it and take a listen! :D

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