Lorne Balfe's MISSION: IMPOSSIBLE - DEAD RECKONING (2023/24)

[Quppa 117]

New episode of Soundtracking with Edith Bowman featuring Cécile Tournesac (music editor) & Eddie Hamilton (editor): https://audioboom.com/posts/8334936-episode-377-cecile-tournesac-eddie-hamilton

 

It's an interesting insight into the modern film making process - it's almost the opposite of Spielberg cutting the bike chase in E.T. to match the music.

 

Bowman previously interviewed Lorne Balfe & Christopher McQuarrie in 2018: https://audioboom.com/posts/7105436-episode-117-christopher-mcquarrie-lorne-balfe-on-the-music-of-mission-impossible-fallout-con (I don't think Kraemer's name came up once).

 

McQuarrie is distinctly anti-temp score and seems quite invested in the music, which makes the Balfe choice even stranger.

[Mr. Who 919]

2 hours ago, Quppa said:

New episode of Soundtracking with Edith Bowman featuring Cécile Tournesac (music editor) & Eddie Hamilton (editor): https://audioboom.com/posts/8334936-episode-377-cecile-tournesac-eddie-hamilton

 

It's an interesting insight into the modern film making process - it's almost the opposite of Spielberg cutting the bike chase in E.T. to match the music.

 

Bowman previously interviewed Lorne Balfe & Christopher McQuarrie in 2018: https://audioboom.com/posts/7105436-episode-117-christopher-mcquarrie-lorne-balfe-on-the-music-of-mission-impossible-fallout-con (I don't think Kraemer's name came up once).

 

McQuarrie is distinctly anti-temp score and seems quite invested in the music, which makes the Balfe choice even stranger.

My feeling is that McQuarrie is all over the music and thus likes balfe who can write different stems and parts that he can then have a lot of control over with the editors. I might be wrong though.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

Other composers are surely capable of that if they stripe the orchestra, and particularly if they put synth layers into the mix.

 

I cynically assume that McQuarrie just knows that RCP scores go down well with the soundtrack-ignorant public and wants that sounds for his movies. Sadly I got about 15 tracks into this score and got kinda bored - it may yet again take a viewing of the film to unlock this one.

[Knight of Ren 789]

Watched the movie and I really liked it! Balfe's score is a bit all over the place. I like some of his new ideas and how they're used like the creepy motif for the Entity, and I also really liked that he created a sort of emotional variation on Schifrin's Plot theme associated with Hayley Atwell's character. But I think the movie is a bit overscored, and Balfe constantly hammers you with "epic" variations on the Mission Impossible theme, and it tends to be a bit too much even in context, so I really liked that some actions sequences were partially unscored, like the Rome chase or the very end of the train sequence.

 

And the album is excessively long to be properly enjoyed but I think a shorter presentation could highlight some of the best bits. What's really disappointing with this one (as well as it happened with Fallout), is the complete lack of thematic connections with precedent material. There are a couple of places where Kraemer's Ilsa's theme would have been a perfect choice, and something similar happened with Giacchino's theme for Ethan and Julia in the previous movie. But I guess that's something only we as film music fans will notice.

 

Even so, the score works quite well for the most part, as it did in Fallout, to enhance the intensity and tension of the action sequences!

[greenturnedblue 372]

Every establishing shot is accompanied by increasingly epic versions of those same three notes...

[Knight of Ren 789]

Yeah, it got a bit tiring and repetitive after a while. Like for example, Kraemer or Giacchino also quoted either the Plot or the MI theme (or even some new ideas) for the establishing shots, but they added a bit of flavour to represent the location, like the exotic variations on the Plot theme when they arrive on Morocco on Rogue Nation

 

or the vocal theme for the Kremlin in Ghost Protocol, with some nice interplay with the Plot theme 

 

[JNHFan2000 2,966]

Indeed, one of the things missing from Balfe's score is location specific colors to the music.

 

Bond did as well for a long time. Would've been great if Balfe had done that.

[crocodile 8,017]

Watched the movie. It was a lot of fun and an improvement over the previous one. Glad to see more spy elements back in the series after a more straightforward action-driven Fallout. It's a ridiculous and completely silly romp but quite worth a cinema trip for the sheer spectacle. The score was better than expected, and also an improvement over its immediate predecessor, but not much more.

 

But, having said all that, there was a part of me that gets bit tired of those baroque spectacles. I think big movies really get too big for their own good. It's an apocalypse once a week these days. Can't say I blame the audience for not turning up to many of those.

 

Karol

[Edmilson 7,466]

The only thing I liked about this score is the Entity theme. It's hard to figure it out just by listening to the album, but in the movie it's very clear: it's a creepy three-note motif for sustained strings that appears whenever the Entity is mentioned or is doing something creepy.

 

The most interesting part is that it is an inversion of the three main notes of the classic M: I theme that Balfe quotes all the time. It's clever, but nothing original (villain themes who are actually just the hero theme inverted is an old trick).

 

Similarly, the only thing I cared for the Fallout score was the "Ethan regret" theme, which appeared in strings once something dramatic happened. 

 

The action music, on the other hand... Come on, when Hollywood will finally drop its obsession with The Dark Knight and Inception music? It's been over a decade since these movies were released and until this day they keep ruining film music. 

[midgemania 54]

16 hours ago, Edmilson said:

The action music, on the other hand... Come on, when Hollywood will finally drop its obsession with The Dark Knight and Inception music? It's been over a decade since these movies were released and until this day they keep ruining film music. 

I wouldn’t hold my breath. The ever-increasing proliferation of DAW / keyboard-centric composers, the continuing use of mid-late noughties Zimmer in temp music, and the ubiquitous presence of RC alumni in the upper echelons of film scoring (many of whom probably had a large involvement in the “Zimmer” sound in the first place) mean that this approach to action will be around for a while yet. 

[Brónach 1,302]

16 hours ago, Edmilson said:

 It's clever, but nothing original (villain themes who are actually just the hero theme inverted is an old trick).

 

right, Kylo Ren???

 

19 hours ago, crocodile said:

But, having said all that, there was a part of me that gets bit tired of those baroque spectacles. I think big movies really get too big for their own good. It's an apocalypse once a week these days. Can't say I blame the audience for not turning up to many of those.

 

the other day, thinking about Temple of Doom, I realized that among the many dumb things the dumbest is the scene trying to present even larger stakes to resemble the first movie. what for?

[p0llux 398]

Just finished my screening of the movie. Highly entertaining movie. I liked it. Even though it was highly formulaic, it still got me engaged from start to finish. It's fun ride.

 

The score on the other hand by Lorne Balfe was another generic Zimmer-esque RCP score with the loudest possible mix. Instrumentation was the usual loud percussion, loud brass, loud strings, and no woodwinds. All fortissimo and no pianissimo. It's a serviceable score that accompanies the film's never ending action well, but, like it's RCP brethren, nothing truly stands out. If I had to say one positive thing about the score, it'd be it's good at keeping the forward momentum going. Otherwise, not much else to say about the music other than it's just loud af. Quite a contrast from DoD.

[MaxMovieMan 273]

I thought the movie was really good. It brought stakes and the stunts were as epic as ever. Also the AI plot was very interesting to me considering all that’s happening right now.

 

On the score I agree I only like the Entity theme which I think is best expressed in "His Name Is Gabriel." Another cool part of the score are the descending piano keys in "U R Dunn" I thought they worked very well in the movie. Besides that though I genuinely thought the score was way too loud in the theater and my god I need to do a drinking game with the amount of times that three note theme plays. It’s insane how little Balfe adjusts the tone of the score it’s so stagnant. It works well during the movie a lot of the time I’ll give it that but by the end of certain action scenes I’m begging for the score to shut the fuck up.

 

Overall while there are some good tracks (That work better in film than on album) I think this score is a little better than Fallout but still just super Dark Knight wanna-be. Imagine if Kraemer was still scoring these. Or even Giacchino.

[Trope 527]

I must confess, as much as many have lamented the overblown and synth-driven sound of the Balfe scores for both Fallout and Dead Reckoning, I would still choose to listen to them over the Giacchino scores, whose poor performances and mixing render them virtually unlistenable for me personally. It's a shame, because I enjoy the musical content of the Gia scores, but they sound utterly abysmal. At the very least, Balfe's percussion (even if it is overused) feels impactful, and doesn't sound like it was recorded on a potato from the other side of the recording studio.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

I'm not sure I've seen any of the other M:I movies in full except Fallout and I'm not into Kraemer's music really so I'm unfamiliar, musically.

 

I've got a track from RN on now and... it's fine I guess. It's nice that it's properly orchestrated but somehow it's not exciting me or standing out with anything particularly innovative.

 

Overall I'm not impressed with Balfe's contributions for the most part, save for perhaps a half hour or so with Fallout where he gives some action sequences a bit of energy and gravitas. DR:1 is just dull thus far - I haven't been able to pinpoint any moments or themes that really stood out.

 

Probably not my franchise 

[Mephariel 451]

5 hours ago, Trope said:

I must confess, as much as many have lamented the overblown and synth-driven sound of the Balfe scores for both Fallout and Dead Reckoning, I would still choose to listen to them over the Giacchino scores, whose poor performances and mixing render them virtually unlistenable for me personally. It's a shame, because I enjoy the musical content of the Gia scores, but they sound utterly abysmal. At the very least, Balfe's percussion (even if it is overused) feels impactful, and doesn't sound like it was recorded on a potato from the other side of the recording studio.

 

I agree. I think both Balfe scores are good at best, and he sort of lean on the RCP tropes in the dumbest ways. But with Giacchino, I just don't feel anything. His action writing is neither pulse pounding exciting nor compositionally excellent like Williams. His music is just there. 

[Brónach 1,302]

M:I 4 sounds mostly more exciting to me than what "Balfe" does, but it sounds like shit. Prime example: From Russia with Shove or Dubai.

[MaxMovieMan 273]

Ghost Protocol is better mixed than MI3

[Mr. Who 919]

Ghost Protocol is an awesome score! Love the Russian theme, the Dubai theme and the action music. Also nice to get a rendition of Julia’s theme at the end. The mix is a problem but like Max wrote, the mix isn’t nearly as bad in MI4 as in MI3 and many other Gia scores.

 

I like parts of the Fallout score (stairs rooftops for example) and after having listened to MI7, I actually enjoyed it quite a bit. It does get a bit repetitive though because the score uses the MI and Plot themes so heavily in similar ways throughout the score.

 

I think the mix is much better in MI7, where the orchestra sounds punchier, and also MI7 features much fewer electronics than Fallout did. Cues like The Plot Thickens Are really fun actually, especially the Grace variation of the Plot theme is nice.

 

The main problem is that most of the score has a similar sound / expression which makes it all blend together a bit. Hopefully Balfe writes some new themes for the next score so he doesn’t have to rely quite so heavily on the Schiffrin themes.

 

I was half hoping that Gia’s Dubai theme would be used in the desert scene but sadly not.

[Edmilson 7,466]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Who said:

The main problem is that most of the score has a similar sound / expression which makes it all blend together a bit. Hopefully Balfe writes some new themes for the next score so he doesn’t have to rely quite so heavily on the Schiffrin themes.

 

That would be good. So far, the only new theme I managed to identify was the Entity theme. But it would've provided the score with more variety if besides that he also had written themes for Gabriel, Grace, maybe something for the two CIA agents who keep chasing Hunt, etc. The way it is, 80% of the score (give or take, lol) is just RC-fied variations on M: I and The Plot.

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Who said:

Ghost Protocol is an awesome score!

 

It's certainly better than MI3, bit it's got nothing on Rogue Nation. 

[MaxMovieMan 273]

Rogue nation is great but for me personally my favorite is still Ghost Protocol. Maybe it’s nostalgia or just the catchiness of the whole score. I listen to it at the gym sometimes and it’s awesome. Kraemer’s score is good but it’s not as relistenable to me as Ghost Protocol is. I really wish they kept Kraemer however to see what he would’ve done with the scores for the latest two films. An Entity theme by him would’ve been incredible.

[greenturnedblue 372]

Do the strings in "I was hoping it'd be you" remind anyone else of the Imperial March? 

[DangerMotif 1,038]

the weakest of the 7 scores

[Mr. Who 919]

Broxton’s review is up

https://moviemusicuk.us/2023/07/19/mission-impossible-dead-reckoning-part-one-lorne-balfe/

[Gabriel Bezerra 302]

 

 

I don't know, to me they are similar...

 

Every Mission: Impossible film has new themes, I, III, IV and V had one for Ethan, II had a theme for Nya, along with other motifs the scores always had variety, so when Fallout came I was surprise by Balfe's overreliance on The Plot and the M:I theme... (Kraemer also used it a lot, but he had a theme for Ethan and the M:I theme too) I think there's two other themes in that score, one for the White Widow and a two-note one for the Syndicate, the one movie where musical continuity would work wonders (instead of another version of the M:I theme, he could have used Lane's theme from V at the end of Stairs and Rooftops).

 

Fortunately, his score for Dead Reckoning has a few more themes, that stand out because everything else is just The Plot and the M:I theme... again. I think the Entity motif reminds me of something from Fallen Order...

[Brónach 1,302]

the main theme is best triumphant after a lot of pain in a sequence

[LSH 969]

Balfe is currently doing an AMA on r/movies on Reddit.

 

 

[Edmilson 7,466]

I wish John Williams did an AMA for his Indy 5 music... but first someone would have to explain to him what is an AMA. And what is Reddit. And that no, you can't reply to fans using a typewriter and sending letters to their houses.

[TolkienSS 407]

On 20/07/2023 at 12:38 AM, Mr. Who said:

Broxton’s review is up

https://moviemusicuk.us/2023/07/19/mission-impossible-dead-reckoning-part-one-lorne-balfe/

 

I've just read this now, but

 

Quote

Right from the get-go, Balfe’s music feels fresh and stimulating, lively and exciting, and is filled with so much dense, complex, intricate writing for orchestra and percussion that it almost becomes mesmerizing. 

 

... sorry, but someone who must have heard a vast, and I mean vast, amount of music in his life, this is a statement that is so unintelligent, such overt political ass kissing, and so obviously in contrast with reality that it's almost disgusting.

 

Either that, or simply bad taste. I prefer the latter.

[Edmilson 7,466]

14 minutes ago, TolkienSS said:

so much dense, complex, intricate writing for orchestra and percussion that it almost becomes mesmerizing. 

[TolkienSS 407]

4 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

 

Reading the first two paragraphs, I was almost convinced it's satire.

 

The part about Balfe having studied Rachmaninoff and Stravinsky for this almost killed me.

[Edmilson 7,466]

17 minutes ago, TolkienSS said:

The part about Balfe having studied Rachmaninoff and Stravinsky for this almost killed me.

Interesting! I didn't know Rachmanioff and Stravinsky had scored The Dark Knight and Inception.

[Brónach 1,302]

16 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Interesting! I didn't know Rachmanioff and Stravinsky had scored The Dark Knight and Inception.

 

i have no snark left for this

 

i'm not going to go "Lorne should keep his hans off the movie" because it's just a movie but i'm confident Hollywood can somehow recover from this. Just not as "Hollywood", or organized the way it's been the last twenty years, and probably for the best in that case. It takes is failing repeatedly.

 

this goes for Oppenheimer too (and I like Black Panther). heck, that and Dune strike me as classic Jerry territory, i feel kinds sad even though i know it doesn't make sense.

[Edmilson 7,466]

I haven't seen Oppenheimer yet, but its score seems a lot better than M: I. LG is a more interesting composer of current Hollywood music because he doesn't repeat Zimmer tropes.

[crocodile 8,017]

I haven't heard the album but the score as heard in film wasn’t bad.

 

Karol

[Richard Penna 3,694]

4 hours ago, TolkienSS said:

... sorry, but someone who must have heard a vast, and I mean vast, amount of music in his life, this is a statement that is so unintelligent, such overt political ass kissing, and so obviously in contrast with reality that it's almost disgusting.

 

Either that, or simply bad taste. I prefer the latter.

 

I would use many of his terms to describe Gladiator, a score I love, and no doubt there are some choice words to be said to describe the lack of talent or proper orchestration in that score. The bit you're sadly missing this this: I don't care because I still enjoy it. What a boring place this would be if everyone just liked one style of music.

 

But I get the sense you enjoy demonstrating your perceived superior musical knowledge by routinely shitting on the tastes of those who enjoy such scores.

[Archive Collection 214]

The strangest part of the new score is how Lorne has claimed that recording in several locations helped to convey the character/emotion of each of the cities depicted in the film… which is a farce, considering that every location is underscored with the same plodding, homogenised sound. Contrast that against Kraemer’s approach. Each location had a very clear orchestrational and compositional character - and Kraemer never needed a free holiday to any of these locations to craft a superb score…

[HunterTech 994]

It probably is overdone for a lot of people, but it certainly is a crucial fabric to Gia's Ghost Protocol score having the fun personality it does:

 

 

 

 

 

Hell, for someone who definitely takes after his mentor a lot, Balfe sure missed that HZ also managed it on his sole effort (even if the Spanish sound is too engrained into the score for it to work as an example in this particular context):

 

 

Given the rumors regarding the behind the scenes of RN's score, I'm kind of left feeling like McQ simply hates color in his preferred sound.

[Mephariel 451]

On 20/07/2023 at 11:05 AM, Edmilson said:

I wish John Williams did an AMA for his Indy 5 music... but first someone would have to explain to him what is an AMA. And what is Reddit. And that no, you can't reply to fans using a typewriter and sending letters to their houses.

 

Indy 5 is the last movie on the list I want John Williams to do an AMA on. 

[Jay 37,369]

On 20/07/2023 at 9:05 AM, Gabriel Bezerra said:

I don't know, to me they are similar...

 

 

Ignoring anything to do with the actual composition, the recording (and mix/master I suppose) of the MI5 track is so much more pleasing to the ear than the MI6 track, I had to stop listening to the latter after 30 seconds.

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

On 20/07/2023 at 3:05 PM, Gabriel Bezerra said:

I don't know, to me they are similar...

 

First, Balfe steals Kraemer's job. Then, the music.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

Not sure this commentary about Fallout is gonna fly in these circles... at 2:50. Kraemer fans... hold your noses.

 

 

[Gabriel Bezerra 302]

I love this channel... but most of his opinions on scores... 

[MaxMovieMan 273]

Holy bad take.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

And again at 8:24. The guy likes RCP certainly, but he's also highlighting the music so far in the odd place where I also thought it was effective.

 

Plus hey, you're allowed to prefer Fallout to Rogue Nation as I do.

[Brónach 1,302]

47 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

Not sure this commentary about Fallout is gonna fly in these circles... at 2:50. Kraemer fans... hold your noses.

 

 

 

14:25

[TolkienSS 407]

On 31/07/2023 at 8:11 PM, Richard Penna said:

Not sure this commentary about Fallout is gonna fly in these circles... at 2:50. Kraemer fans... hold your noses.

 

 

 

You don't have to be a fan of any particular composer to say that you prefer one particular composer's score to another's.

[JNHFan2000 2,966]

Some might not enjoy Balfe's music but I thought this was a wonderful interview. Balfe seems really kind and actually gives some great insights.

 

For instance: They tried different sounds for the different locations, but he says it didn't work to picture.

 

 

[HunterTech 994]

Is it that they didn't work, or that Balfe is too one track minded about these sorts of projects to naturally work in more foreign sounds? Of course it wouldn't fit if the main requirement for the score is for it to always be big sounding and/or brooding. And I say that as someone who actually likes DR1's score in both times I've seen the movie!

 

This might be part of why Ghost Protocol is my favorite of the films, since there was more room for overt goofiness to occur, versus the naturalistic tone McQ goes for in his last two films (which definitely isn't an issue for my money).