James Horner's THE LAND BEFORE TIME (1988) - NEW Intrada 2020

[GoodMusician 54]

3 hours ago, TSMefford said:

 

Gonna agree with Roger here. This kind of mastering process is done on nearly all score releases whether you notice it or not. Original releases and the Expanded releases after. And this is nothing. You should see a Hans Zimmer release under the waveform view. I will also add that touching 0dB is perfectly fine. It's when you exceed it that it becomes clipping and a problem. And seeing the waveform with my own eyes, it certainly looks like other techniques were used rather than a simple limiter as Roger said.  More is required than a simple normalization as well.

 

I will just say that this release sounds beautiful. No clipping, no distortion, which is true of most professional releases. The mastering is not an issue when it comes to buying this release. I'll also say, I should've done some more investigating myself before posting what sounded like a mix error, but is also present in the film. So that is also not really an issue. I see today this information about different takes and what not and happy to hear Roger mention something about offering a solution to that even though they don't have to. 

 

It's a great release folks.

This is why I don't just buy any release these days. I try to be mindful of whose doing it and their techniques / attention to detail. The Loudness wars continues taking its toll on so many great releases.

For example, I LOVE the score to The Lion King but between disregarding an award winning mix and then overboosting the crap out of it, it's just not worth buying the Legacy release. The wav form looks like a pop song.

[TSMefford 1433]

1 hour ago, GoodMusician said:

This is why I don't just buy any release these days. I try to be mindful of whose doing it and their techniques / attention to detail. The Loudness wars continues taking its toll on so many great releases.

For example, I LOVE the score to The Lion King but between disregarding an award winning mix and then overboosting the crap out of it, it's just not worth buying the Legacy release. The wav form looks like a pop song.

 

I agree to an extent. But they're never going to throw unmastered session files onto a disc these days and call it a day like some may want. Just not how things are done. And personally, as long as the mastering and crunching of dynamics isn't really audible, then I'd rather have the music than not. 

 

Also, and this is a bit technical, but "overboosting" is a bit misleading. It implies, again, that they're pushing it beyond acceptable limits, which leads to clipping and distortion. Really it's more like squishing. They're bringing the quiet parts up a bit and squishing the louder parts down a bit so that it feels and sounds louder, but technically speaking: It does not clip or go over zero. Things like Compression, Dynamics Processing, Limiting, etc are all valid techniques in the process of mastering and can be done well with hardly audible artifacts. Of course, I'm over simplifying the process greatly as mastering is such a complicated artform. I get what you meant though, and yes, the loudness war is a problem. 

 

I'd say Land Before Time is perfectly acceptable though, as are most expansions these days. I don't think the labels are treating these like radio albums, so they suffer a lot less from the loudness war than other things do. I would certainly trust these labels over Disney doing their own expansions of course. As I said earlier too, this Land Before Time release is nothing compared to a loud Hans Zimmer score. I can't speak for the Lion King, but things like Man of Steel are nearly brick-walled at times and do have audible effects from the squashing. Man of Steel notably lacks a lot of punch, I feel due to the over compression.

 

1 hour ago, jwalk713 said:

 

The release is glorious as is; but that you folks would go the extra mile and make this adjustment is just amazing. Thank you for all the hard work you do! 

 

Agreed! Like I said before, they didn't have to do this at all, but I and many others appreciate the opportunity. Shows they care, in my opinion.

[Amer 1774]

On 11/3/2020 at 3:41 PM, Amer said:

My parcel with this seems to be stuck in some Mail limbo at Jamica, NY since last 4 days. It should have left JFK by now! Must be the elections day off for the USPS post office.

Anyone else from abroad whose orders are pending shipment from NY via Jamica (USPS) or JFK, NY? Mine still has nt updated. I dont even know if it has shipped out from US! 

[crumbs 12625]

38 minutes ago, Amer said:

Anyone else from abroad whose orders are pending shipment from NY via Jamica (USPS) or JFK, NY? Mine still has nt updated. I dont even know if it has shipped out from US! 

 

Mine scanned once in Tokyo across 6 days with no other update, before finally reappearing in Australia 2 days ago. It's in the wrong city but at least it's in the same country

 

How long ago did Intrada ship your order? And how long since the last update? Seems normal in this COVID world that international tracking is far less detailed and reliable. Must be heavy backlogs everywhere.

[Luke Skywalker 1440]

So there is going to be an enhanced second batch?

[publicist 4635]

9 hours ago, TSMefford said:

I'd say Land Before Time is perfectly acceptable though, as are most expansions these days. I don't think the labels are treating these like radio albums, so they suffer a lot less from the loudness war than other things do.

 

To be perfectly honest, with Horner scores sounding as vaseline as Balto, I was actually hoping they would crank up all available trebles, so it goes both ways. Only Varése has fucked up their Deluxes so noticeably that i had to re-adjust them. Three of the worst offenders: Predator 2, Starship Troopers and the most blatant, Peggy Sue Got Married, which is a true abortion.

 

None of Intrada's or LLL's expansions veer into such territory.

[Amer 1774]

52 minutes ago, crumbs said:

 

Mine scanned once in Tokyo across 6 days with no other update, before finally reappearing in Australia 2 days ago. It's in the wrong city but at least it's in the same country

 

How long ago did Intrada ship your order? And how long since the last update? Seems normal in this COVID world that international tracking is far less detailed and reliable. Must be heavy backlogs everywhere.

 

My orders are averaging 12-15 days in total until delivery which was also the norm in pre covid days.I was getting periodic updates on all my tracking apps. This order shipped on 27th but dropped dead after 31st Oct. Technically it should have reached my countrys mailing system by now.

 

Hoping this should already be here if they missed out on the scanning. 

 

 

[crumbs 12625]

23 minutes ago, Amer said:

Hoping this should already be here if they missed out on the scanning. 

 

The scanning definitely seems irregular overseas. Mine was only scanned once between San Francisco and Australia, even though it spent 6 days travelling around Japan. I'm sure it was scanned dozens of times but it just didn't update online.

 

So I'd allow at least an extra week. Things definitely seem worse now than a few months ago; my LLL orders arrived less than 2 weeks after ordering back in June. I ordered from Intrada 2 weeks ago and it's not even in the same city yet.

[Amer 1774]

7 hours ago, crumbs said:

 

The scanning definitely seems irregular overseas. Mine was only scanned once between San Francisco and Australia, even though it spent 6 days travelling around Japan. I'm sure it was scanned dozens of times but it just didn't update online.

 

So I'd allow at least an extra week. Things definitely seem worse now than a few months ago; my LLL orders arrived less than 2 weeks after ordering back in June. I ordered from Intrada 2 weeks ago and it's not even in the same city yet.

My last two Intrada orders these 2 months were fairly prompt as was UK mail. So lets see... 

[JTWfan77 1311]

9 hours ago, publicist said:

...that i had to re-adjust them. Three of the worst offenders: Predator 2, Starship Troopers and the most blatant, Peggy Sue Got Married...

 

I'd be interested to hear what steps you took to adjust PSGM. The brickwalling on that release is horrid. Were you able to improve it to the point of listenability?

[publicist 4635]

53 minutes ago, JTWfan77 said:

I'd be interested to hear what steps you took to adjust PSGM. The brickwalling on that release is horrid. Were you able to improve it to the point of listenability?

 

I usually use the multiband compressor in Audacity, but I cannot tell you what I did to this specifically. Either reduce both the amount of gain and the threshold or fiddle around with it a bit, there was no clipping afar.

[Bespin 6830]

To compress, or not to compress, that is the question.

 

JWfan you discourage me sometimes...

[A Farewell to Kings 3573]

2 hours ago, JTWfan77 said:

 

I'd be interested to hear what steps you took to adjust PSGM. The brickwalling on that release is horrid. Were you able to improve it to the point of listenability?

Relife might be helpful.

[TSMefford 1433]

50 minutes ago, Bespin said:

To compress, or not to compress, that is the question.

 

JWfan you discourage me sometimes...

 

A bit of dynamic compression never hurt anyone. Of course I prefer full dynamics, but I'll never not buy a release because it has a bit of standard dynamics compression. Brickwalled releases are another matter though.

[Bespin 6830]

I always hated to have to raise the volume in quiet parts of a track, then having almost an heart attack when the loud parts comes. I personally compressed (softly, just a minimum) for myself many old Phillips and Sony albums of John Williams, just to bring them on the same "level" as nice modern compressed albums.

I think it's necessary since our systems are now digitals, and don't need lamps/tubes anymore to amplify (and clipping/distort) the sound. This is mainly why we now have to digitally compress old recordings.

 

Those tubes in the good old days just added that "natural" and warm compressed sound.  Of course younger people here will never understand that...

 

[TSMefford 1433]

1 hour ago, Bespin said:

I always hated to have to raise the volume in quiet parts of a track, then having almost an heart attack when the loud parts comes. I personally compressed (softly, just a minimum) for myself many old Phillips and Sony albums of John Williams, just to bring them on the same "level" as nice modern compressed albums.

I think it's necessary since our systems are now digitals, and don't need lamps/tubes anymore to amplify (and clipping/distort) the sound. This is mainly why we now have to digitally compress old recordings.

 

Those tubes in the good old days just added that "natural" and warm compressed sound.  Of course younger people here will never understand that...

 

 

I mean yeah I understand all that. I live in apartments mostly so sometimes I just wanna listen without disturbing neighbors in what not and having to ride the volume. Not gonna lie though, I also enjoy feeling the orchestra when I can. And huge dynamics really bring that power. 

 

But like I said, some compression never hurt anything. It happens all the time. And as long as I can't here the compressor actively compressing it, I'm fine with it. We all have our preferences.

[Unlucky Bastard 7770]

No. Compression is evil.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6478]

Horner's dynamic range 

[Unlucky Bastard 7770]

It was the best.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6478]

Tremendous. Like no one's ever heard before. 

[Bespin 6830]

I loved the compression of old tube Amplifiers!

 

[Unlucky Bastard 7770]

Dynamic range or die.

[Brundlefly 2308]

Does anyone have the feeling that the Jurassic Park set sounds more compressed than all the other JW MM releases?

[Unlucky Bastard 7770]

They master them for people with cheap and nasty gear while they're in the subway. Sad.

[publicist 4635]

They all sound great. 

[Kasey Kockroach 2304]

 

The bit where Littlefoot’s hatching is probably my favorite Horner moment in anything.

 

[Unlucky Bastard 7770]

That is a lovely moment. I always noticed this score when I was a kid.

[blondheim 1020]

38 minutes ago, Kasey Kockroach said:

 

The bit where Littlefoot’s hatching is probably my favorite Horner moment in anything.

 

 

Well, I have good news for you, it's the main theme of the entire score for Journey of Natty Gann.

[Amer 1774]

On 11/5/2020 at 12:51 PM, Amer said:

 

My orders are averaging 12-15 days in total until delivery which was also the norm in pre covid days.I was getting periodic updates on all my tracking apps. This order shipped on 27th but dropped dead after 31st Oct. Technically it should have reached my countrys mailing system by now.

 

Hoping this should already be here if they missed out on the scanning. 

 

 

The postman just gave me a missed call on my phone . Yay!!! 

 

And its here! 

 

[Amer 1774]

I thought this package was late. How wrong I was... 

[Wojo 2445]

Mine just arrived a few minutes ago, and now I have more wonderful biodegradable packing peanuts to play with! 

[Bespin 6830]

So finally, are people okay without their few seconds horn solo micro edit?

 

Those things are funny, as undocumented micro edits are often ignored/forgotten when recordings are remastered and reissued (in pop music too, by example some, not many, Roy Orbison songs have edited finales, and it's generally a nightmare to document all the alt versions which have been mistakenly released over the years. We have those problems with Aznavour too). 

 

... And that's why you always have to keep your original CDs!

[Amer 1774]

Across the world fans are getting this set. Just rested from my first listen. Gorgeous, pastoral Symphonic score supported by a very good mastering and top notch sound. Well Done, Intrada. 👏

[Kasey Kockroach 2304]

On 11/6/2020 at 9:42 PM, The Big Man said:

That is a lovely moment. I always noticed this score when I was a kid.

My tastes and choices as far as favorites go will of course naturally alter as years pass, but this so far has remained my favorite of his. Rocketeer comes close though. 

[JTWfan77 1311]

On 11/7/2020 at 11:50 AM, Amer said:

I thought this package was late. How wrong I was... 

 

Aliens is very late

[Jurassic Shark 9355]

It arrives precisely when it means to.

[Amer 1774]

2 hours ago, JTWfan77 said:

 

Aliens is very late

NO, thats a replacement, apparently its the first CD I've ever lost.

[Kasey Kockroach 2304]

I have not watched this movie in eons, but Will Ryan’s screaming in the tar pit scene continues to haunt my mind to this day.

[MedigoScan 271]

I recently saw the movie again as well just to match it up with the music

And what I find slightly interesting (which I should have already realized before since the track was already released) is how 'Foraging for Food' seems to have rearranged itself

The third section for the scene where Cera recalls about seeing Sharptooth is instead used earlier for her actual meeting with Sharptooth (complete with tracked music at the end for his reawakening), leaving the later scene unscored.

It cant be that the scenes were shifted around, since that wouldnt make sense chronologically.

 

I only noticed because I always figured the missing music for the Cera/Sharptooth scene would be there on a complete release.

 

[Jay 31058]

Roger posted this in the FSM thread for this release

 

Quote

Quote

I hope they will also address the muffled sound of the first track, then this release would be perfect!

It won't because we don't hear any muffled sound in the first track. Everything seems dynamic and crisp to us on par with the rest of the tracks.

 

[A Farewell to Kings 3573]

How would one acquire the replacement? Email Intrada@Intrada.com right?

[Jay 31058]

Roger posted this on the Intrada forums

 

Quote

There is a brief passage where Horner inserted a section from another take that was undocumented. We've fixed it for future pressings and will have a some extras for those that request it if they notice and care. Most people haven't seemed to notice, but we thought we'd have some available for those that care.

http://www.intrada.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=83139#p83139

 

Quote

 

Quote

if one ordered from Screen Archives, can we still get a replace?

You can reach out to Craig or us. He'll have some when they're in in a week or so.

 

http://www.intrada.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=83141#p83141

[Kasey Kockroach 2304]

This is the first deluxe/expanded release in ages that I don’t regret buying. And I liked the album arrangement fine! But now the very idea of going from “Foraging for Food” to the finale feels strange.

[A. A. Ron 850]

Really? I was just thinking about how surprised I was to find I didn't think the 2 new cues added much to the program. I wouldn't say I regret my purchase, as I've always wanted to own this score, but I think Horner and or the album producer did a good job of including all the highlights the first time around.

[A Farewell to Kings 3573]

2 minutes ago, A. A. Ron said:

Really? I was just thinking about how surprised I was to find I didn't think the 2 new cues added much to the program. I wouldn't say I regret my purchase, as I've always wanted to own this score, but I think Horner and or the album producer did a good job of including all the highlights the first time around.

I heard that the new cues clarified the themes.

[Luke Skywalker 1440]

21 hours ago, A. A. Ron said:

Really? I was just thinking about how surprised I was to find I didn't think the 2 new cues added much to the program. I wouldn't say I regret my purchase, as I've always wanted to own this score, but I think Horner and or the album producer did a good job of including all the highlights the first time around.

so 80% of the score are the highlights? they rather could have not dropped any cues, really

 

 

[MedigoScan 271]

Separation of Paths is pretty nice.

The track that came before it I cannot really remember much yet tho.

[lordskylark 1]

I'm glad to finally be able to hear this entire score.
I'm wondering, though, why the instrumental version of "If We Hold on Together" was not included? There was definitely enough room on the disc. It was released on a single (strangely) in Japan.

(Photos by me.)

[Edmilson 4514]

The more I listen to this score, the more I like it. It's already one of my favorites from Horner in the 80s, alongside Krull and Coccoon.

[scallenger 424]

Yeah! Krull FTW!