Close Encounters of the Third Kind - 45th Anniversary Edition La-La Land Records

[Holko 9,529]

4 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

I didn't know, that the original theatrical cut is still available.

All 3 cuts are on the general blurays (that I know of), probably solved with branching chapters.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,544]

9 hours ago, karelm said:

I think Spielberg is confused by it as well.

Yes, well, karelm, there's a very good reason for that: Spielberg didn't write a single word of it. It was all Paul Schrader.

 

 

 

I've seen all three cuts of CE3K and all available deleted scenes (except for "Dax/UFO"), and I honestly do not care which version I watch. All versions transport me to a place of wonder, awe, and imagination, for two-plus hours.

I don't even mind "inside the Mothership".

CE3K is my favourite film, and my favourite score, so I am, naturally, biased 

[Bespin 8,483]

I watched the theatricul cut on my new BD (althouth it have the 3 versions of the movie).

 

For me CE3K always was a very noisy movie (it was intented like this I think, people always talks one on each others, the translations in many scenes, and there is always 12 different background noises in every scenes, etc.).

 

This movie is really about "Conversation".

 

The main message of Spielberg with this movie is really: we'll scare you, but you'll have fun too.

 

In 1977, this movie was indeed scary and fun too.

 

Then the story is pretty basic: Aliens who abducted humans many years ago, try to establish contact many years later. They establish contact to see if people will react okay... and as they seems to react okay, they "return" these abducted people... After that, humans still appears friendly so they think: ok, let's take a new batch of humans with us, we'll pass to the next level of our "relation".

 

Then the more you listen to the music, the more you'll discover it's grandeur. It's just a matter of you getting used with it.

 

@JayThanks for the input, I indeed corrected my playlist to remove duplicate cues. The idea was to start from the OST, but to go a step further (adding only 5 minutes to the program), mainly adding material between the Main Title and Barry's Abduction (because the first contact is important musically), and to restitute the finale in sequence (including The Returnees).

[Tallguy 3,399]

3 hours ago, Bespin said:

it was intented like this I think, people always talks one on each others, the translations in many scenes, and there is always 12 different background noises in every scenes, etc.)

 

That was Spielberg's signature for a while. It's in Jaws and E.T. as well. Not so much in Raiders. Haven't seen 1941 in a while.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I'd call that Altman's signature before I'd call it Spielberg's.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,544]

Indeed, @Stu.

Overlapping speech is a familiar trope, with Altman.

Spielberg, however, uses it well, in CE3K, especially in the air traffic control scene.

OF course, the greatest use of overlapping speech, in any film, is The Conversation 

 

 

 

 

(edit) Oops! I meant The Conversation in CE3K, and not the film THE CONVERSATION... but that's pretty good, too 

[Andy 4,138]

I love when he does this. That moment in JP when they break off with Muldoon to have a separate conversation. 

[karelm 2,914]

The overlapping speech adds some realism as does casting real people for example, in CEOTTK, those are real air track controllers not reading script.  They shot in a real air traffic center of Palmdale, California (though the setting is Indiana) close to Edwards Air Force Base where the sound barrier was broken thirty years earlier.  Here is the control center today:

 

Similarly, Spielberg does this in E.T. when he uses real medical people adlibbing their lines when E.T. dies.  These moments do certainly add a sense of reality to these fantasy films.  Sort of like casting someone who really couldn't speak English well for François Truffaut.  I think this was a great touch in retrospect because he's a bit awkward in the role but from stories told by Richard Dreyfuss was genuinely innocent and naïve which contributed further to the story.  I've been rewatching the film today and I think I'm reconsidering my criticism of the film.  I'm starting to get it more clearly now.  

 

Here is how I see it.  Pinocchio, a marionette that wishes to become a boy, becomes a living marionette when his creator wishes upon a star.  The Blue Fairy comes into the puppet shop at night and turns Pinocchio alive but not yet a boy.  She assigns Jimini Cricket as his conscious that guides him on the path of good.  Importantly, Jimini Cricket sings that when you wish upon a star, your dreams come true.  If Pinocchio remains brave and honorable, he will become a real boy.  But Pinocchio has many fears including thunder and fire and other things that children would fear.  Plus, he is prone to lie when he is afraid, extending his nose.  He was deceptive to the Blue Fairy when tempted by folly.  The lie extends his nose which the Blue Fairy fixes but warns him, she'll not intervene again.  He is now on his own on his quest to conquer his fears which is quickly tested greatly as he hopes to become a real boy.  So, one of my issues was this story has nothing to do with CEOTTK but at least was the basis of A.I. so there, it made sense.  But in rewatching the film, I can better understand Roy seeks to be a boy...at least childlike qualities which is clear when he talks to his kids about goofy golf versus Pinocchio and they all want goofy golf instead.  The aliens seem to reveal themselves as friendly to children, that's why Barry doesn't fear them, but adults do.  So, the film is Roy's Pinocchio challenge, to overcome his fear which might be adulthood as the aliens don't reveal themselves to his wife who lives with worldly, mundane struggles.  Roy doesn't fit in that mold, he is a dreamer - a foreigner in a foreign land and because of that, ends up losing his family like explorers or dreamers of legends past.  His challenge (anyone who becomes a responsible adult) is the quest for remaining a sense of childlike wonder and not lose that, and that is what enables him to see the aliens.  Therefore, the film is a retelling of Pinocchio with adult life as the marionette and his fears of government, death, family responsibility, etc., that he overcomes honorably, and the aliens are the blue fairy who take him way in to his real imaginary world.    I think I might finally get the film.  It's a bit of a hybrid between Pinocchio and Peter Pan.  If you believe in the fairy, it might seem scary at first but eventually you can see it.  What do you think?  We can take it even further.  The late 70's were the height of the cold war.  50,000 nuclear war heads which were way more than could destroy the entire planet.  During this time, Carl Sagan penned Cosmos which was a scientist warning if a society on the cusp of interstellar awareness could survive its own technological adolescence.  It is doubtful if a society can survive the adolescence where it can destroy itself.  In a way, this totally plays into Pinocchio in that fear and death comes at the stake of knowledge and wisdom and it is not clear if the pursuit of maturity sacrifices survival.  Can we survive our technological adolescence and become a member of the interstellar community?  This would then make CEOTTK on par with another sci-fi masterpiece, The Day the Earth Stood Still where adults failed to hear the message of the visitor because of their fear but the children and enlightened heard the message clearly but were rejected by the masses controlled by their fears.

[Tallguy 3,399]

I never saw or looked for a thematic connection to Pinocchio or even Disney. I always just took the title "When You Wish Upon a Star" rather literally as a connection to a group of people trying to make contact with beings from another world. The film throws in the line about "Hey, Pinocchio's playing!" and his wife's reaction is used to demonstrate the differences between the two characters. If anything Roy doesn't want to BE a real boy. He already IS a real boy.

[Andy 4,138]

Roy clearly has problem adulting. He’s happy to throw it in his kid’s face that he’s done with math in school and therefore doesn’t have to truly help him, but instead wants to play with his toy trains. 
 

He puts up a fuss to see Pinocchio with the kids, rather than just be a parent and do what they want. 
 

He’s an emotional child, crying in the tub while his kid calls him a baby. 
 

He’s comfortable getting on Barry’s level, helping with the sandcastle. 
 

He has no problem “running away from home” to leave the planet. 
 

Spielberg cast Melinda Dillon and Francois Truffaut because of their ability to project childlike wonder. 
 

Spielberg’s singular thematic image is Barry opening the door, because only a child could have the curiosity and innocence to trust the aliens. 
 

I think Pinocchio and Peter Pan are both similar themes of childhood, and the lyrics just happen to fit with watching the skies. 
 

Nothing new in my analysis really.  Just restating what I’ve seen and read in interviews. 

[Tallguy 3,399]

I forgot about the line about the homework. You can read that as "I don't care about my kids" or you can read it as a snarky way to say "You need to learn to do this, kid". As someone with kids and also someone who has been watching Close Encounters my whole life, I'm going with the latter.

 

I don't swing to either extreme regarding Roy. I think he is shown to be knowledgeable and good at a complex job. The movie doesn't really work if he's shown to be the sort to go chasing after every distraction. It's because there are actual magical lights in the sky that he goes running. There's also an indication that there are literally aliens messing with his head.

 

That said, he's a hard working guy in his mid thirties in 1977 with a wife and kids. There's a certain amount of disaffection there to be sure. OTOH when these extraordinary events start happening to him his wife can't deal with it. (Fortunately it's not that simple even in a Spielberg movie, but that's the eventual outcome.)

 

Spielberg has said that he couldn't write that ending now that he has kids. And I know that any struggles with it that I have are because this story has been part of my life for 45 years. So I'm not a dispassionate critic.

[DangerMotif 1,038]

I just got my cd, don’t really have much experience with this score. Any recommended tracks?

[Tallguy 3,399]

Well, if you're not up for putting in disc 1 and pressing "Play" then this is very representative.

[Bespin 8,483]

59 minutes ago, Gibster said:

I just got my cd, don’t really have much experience with this score. Any recommended tracks?

 

You can go with my little playlist, the highlights from the old OST are all there.

 

[DangerMotif 1,038]

16 minutes ago, Bespin said:

 

You can go with my little playlist, the highlights from the old OST are all there.

 

Thank you

[karelm 2,914]

1 hour ago, Gibster said:

I just got my cd, don’t really have much experience with this score. Any recommended tracks?

Please, please go in order.  This is arguably the finest representation of JW's golden period and covers an incredible breadth and how it gets there is so important.  You can't skip to the end!!  You have to experience the journey.  Don't read the last chapter of a mystery.  Don't eat the dessert first.  Experience the journey especially when it's very rarely as beautifully told.

9 hours ago, Tallguy said:

I never saw or looked for a thematic connection to Pinocchio or even Disney. I always just took the title "When You Wish Upon a Star" rather literally as a connection to a group of people trying to make contact with beings from another world. The film throws in the line about "Hey, Pinocchio's playing!" and his wife's reaction is used to demonstrate the differences between the two characters. If anything Roy doesn't want to BE a real boy. He already IS a real boy.

It's a recurring theme.  Not just in this film but in many Spielberg movies.  E.T. where only the children can see and understand him despite the adults trying even as mom reads Tinkerbelle stories to Gert about believing then you can see.  If ever there was an eternal child, Robin Williams in Hook, was an adult who forgot he was Peter Pan because he was so overburdened by life so much that even Hook didn't recognize him.  This is a very important point of many Spielberg movies one way or another.  Of course, A.I. is overtly Pinocchio but expands on it.  Sort of a modernized version of it.   I'm not talking just about Pinocchio but the essence of Pinocchio - that with the innocence as a child, you see the magic that the adult fails to see.  That's like in almost all his films.  I bet cinephiles can argue it's even in his historical films too.

[DangerMotif 1,038]

4 hours ago, karelm said:

Please, please go in order.  This is arguably the finest representation of JW's golden period and covers an incredible breadth and how it gets there is so important.  You can't skip to the end!!  You have to experience the journey.  Don't read the last chapter of a mystery.  Don't eat the dessert first.  Experience the journey especially when it's very rarely as beautifully told.

I started in order but it was a bit too quiet for me. It’s tough for me with new scores some times but i’ll do it in order

[Bespin 8,483]

You have to be receptive, I agree this is not a Party score.

 

Next time, try to listen to it at nightime, in the dark... with a flashlight...

 

[Andy 4,138]

It took me a long time and one expansion to fully appreciate the score. It’s not action music you listen to in your car.  Nor is it sweet and tender like E.T.   If ever there were an End Title crescendo that is earned it’s Close Encounters.  But it’s so, so worth the journey. 

[Tallguy 3,399]

You know, that's odd. There are certainly scores in my life that I've grown into or became "mature" enough to appreciate. (The entire second side of Star Trek: The Motion Picture!)

 

But I've been happily listening to Close Encounters since I was eight!

 

1) I'm talking about the LP. And to be sure I would skip around to me favorites. The tracks that stood out to me were the more tuneful and melodic ones. So I guess it was Main Title and Mountain Visions, Nocturnal Pursuit. I didn't have much use for The Abduction of Barry. But side two got played a lot. Especially The Conversation / Appearance of the Visitors / Resolution and End Title. Night Seige got played a lot too. This could be a little bit harder to parse into "songs" on an LP with a turntable. It wasn't like Star Wars where you knew where Mouse Robot and Blasting Off was vs. The Little People Work.

 

This might not be as accessible as Star Wars, but it's at least as easy to get into as Jaws. It's still a melodic score with plenty of upbeat stuff. If someone listened to Jaws, Star Wars, and Superman and then heard this it wouldn't have too much of a stretch to identify it as a contemporary.

[Andy 4,138]

I always liked it, don't get me wrong.  But yeah, I can't say I would happily rotate it as frequently as the other big titles of the time.  I was 6 years old when this landed, and was always aware of the music, and liked the 5 tones.   So as a kid I would mostly skip to the Conversation because of the novelty of it.  I remember listening to a 45 single that had the Disco Version and Nocturnal Pursuit as side B, so I liked that a lot.  But I probably didn't get the OST right when it came out.    

 

So, I grew up with the scores in the films, but didn't get ALL of the OSTs when they were released.  CE3K I was probably a bit older.   Star Wars, yes.  Superman, yes.  Empire/Raiders/ET/Jedi/Temple yes.   Jaws I actually didn't get until a few years later into the 80s.

[GerateWohl 4,370]

1 hour ago, Andy said:

It took me a long time and one expansion to fully appreciate the score. It’s not action music you listen to in your car.  Nor is it sweet and tender like E.T.   If ever there were an End Title crescendo that is earned it’s Close Encounters.  But it’s so, so worth the journey. 

Absolutely same here.

[Bespin 8,483]

Born in 1974, it took me at least 40 years to really appreciate just the suite JW plays for years in concert... 

 

First, the BANG at the beginning always scared me! Why listen to scary music? What's the fun of doing that?? 

 

Call it maturity... call it mental programmation... I don't know! Now at 46 yo, I love it! 

 

Damn John Williams!

[blondheim 1,157]

My stepfather made me watch this movie and clearly envied Roy and his final opportunity. Oddly, though I am not close with my stepfather, I can credit him with turning me on to many great films and scores. I have always been obsessed with the interpolation of When You Wish in this score. The Appearance of the Visitors has been a favorite John Williams cue for as long as I can remember. I still prefer when it and the Resolution are joined, as in the ‘98 and Gerhardt. I have played it for many friends who never noticed the Pinocchio in the movie until I showed them. That was fun. I’ve had a lifelong relationship with this score.

[Jay 37,369]

Some interesting information posted by Mike Matessino to the FSM thread for the reissue:

 

"

Here's the rundown of what happened and my thoughts on it.

 

The originally intended end credits music was the Williams arrangement of "When You Wish Upon A Star," recorded on the second day of scoring, June 3, 1977.

By the time it came to preview the film, Spielberg decided to take it a step further, pulling out the Williams arrangement and adding in the actual song as heard in Disney's Pinocchio. The 2-LP assembly of the soundtrack even included it and the rights to do so were cleared.

 

The movie previewed in Dallas on October 13, 1977, and a lot of the reaction cards contained strong negative comments about the song. The knee-jerk response was to not just go back to Williams' arrangement, but to quickly edit together other music to cover the credits. As pointed out, it was parts of "TV Reveals," "Roy and Jillian on the Road," and then circling back to the final part of "Resolution."

 

Another takeaway from the preview was that Arista reps determined that the soundtrack album did not have the same sales potential as Star Wars and so the assembled 2-LP album was cut down to one, and the work was done so fast that for the end credits they simply mixed down what had just been edited for the picture -- the actual film dubbing elements -- and stuck it onto the new album master. That is why "Resolution and End Title" has always sounded of inferior quality on the album.

 

The disco piece was commissioned as part of this, based on how well Meco's Star Wars had done and seeing Saturday Night Fever on the horizon. It was recorded in early November, and the track "Nocturnal Pursuits," created for the newly shortened album, was selected for the B-side of the 45 rpm release. The 7-inch 33 rpm was made for the soundtrack album, but there was nothing on the B-side.

 

Also cut after the preview was the introduction to the Nearys, replaced with a Jiminy Cricket music box playing "When You Wish." This was the solution to the deletion of all the dialogue about taking the kids to see Pinocchio but needing to motivate Ronnie calling Roy "Jiminy Cricket." The music box plays through the whole scene in the 1977 version because they had a certain length of allowable time to use the song once it was cut from the end credits. (The later appearance of the music box was also an insert filmed after the main scene.)

 

By 1980, distanced from the preview reactions and with the film having been embraced, Spielberg put back in the original Neary introduction that had been previewed and went back to his original intention to use "When You Wish." Williams' original ending arrangement was reinstated and he was also able to quote it in his new "Inside" music, recorded in Boston (Spielberg stopping there for the sessions on his way to France to begin filming Raiders).

 

Personally, I like the use of the song and Williams' arrangement, especially with the extra black at the end over which it plays. It's a gentle, tonal bookend to the opening dark screen with the building dissonant chord. It has meaning to this story that connects music with transcendence. The edited music that they changed it to is just tracked music to run over credits, entirely utilitarian. The Williams arrangement is only heard on the 1980 version of the film, but to me it belongs there and is my preferred ending. That's just my opinion about it.

 

For those who want the crossover from "Contact" to "End Title," the re-creation of the album track is at the end of La-La Land's CD2. The only reason they were combined together initially, even on the scrapped 2-LP album, is because the first cue also uses "When You Wish" and therefore the song could be cleared for one track rather than two. But things are a bit different now with these limited editions when it comes to derivative tracks - it was easier to clear the song for an extra track than it was to create a derivative track that exceeded 5 minutes and pushed it into the next mechanical rate tier. Plus the clean ending to "Contact" would not have otherwise been heard on the first disc.

"

 

https://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=148453&forumID=1&archive=0

[Andy 4,138]

I completely agree with Mike’s opinion. The last drawn note after the choir reminds me of the satisfying resolution of the Jaws End Title. 
 

My only frustration was that Contact/End Titles had to be discrete on Disc 1, and combined but truncated like the OST version on Disc 2.  No biggie, since I edited mine. 

[Jay 37,369]

Mike Matessino discusses this release with @TownerFan and @mahler3 on the latest episode of The Legacy of John Williams!

 

https://thelegacyofjohnwilliams.com/2022/08/20/spielberg-williams-podcast/

 

In the episode you will hear stories about the changes to the film after it's first test screening, information about the original planned double-LP program and when, how, and why it got pared down to a single LP, exactly how the "TV Western" cue was meant to be used and how its footage has never been released, and lots more.  Give it a listen!

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

The review has cometh!

 

Buy it... on the 1998 Arista or 2017/2022 La-La Land albums with reservations, because such expansive presentations of the intellectually fascinating score fully reveal the challenging, atonal ambience that John Williams wrote for the first half of the film.

Avoid it... on any of the albums for this score before 1998, for the sound quality of these products is significantly inferior and they might contain a horrendous disco version of the main theme that is best left forgotten.

 

https://www.filmtracks.com/titles/close_encounters.html

[Thor 7,513]

He, he. Swap those two around, and we might have a deal.

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

But the sound quality of the OST is quite bad.

[Thor 7,513]

It's fine.

[GerateWohl 4,370]

The disco version is great.

And the Arista album was for me the first listenable edition of the score.

Close Encounters is an example for a score that extremely benefits from a C&C presentation.

[bollemanneke 3,349]

2 hours ago, Thor said:

It's fine.

For its time, maybe, although I still don't get why half of DG's classical stuff from the 60s sounds ten times better than any film score from the 70s.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,544]

Compared to modern stuff, the OST of CE3K sounds like shit, but in 1977, it's all we had.

 

 

52 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

...I still don't get why half of DG's classical stuff from the 60s sounds ten times better than any film score from the 70s.

Better recording studios, better engineers, better mixing desks, better microphones, better placing of microphones, better mastering techniques, and the main reason: the DG recordings were meant to be heard, and not be buried under all those sound effects, and dialogue.

[Thor 7,513]

Since I got the CD in the mid 90s, and all the way up until today, I've never thought once that the sound quality is in any way lacking. Sounds perfectly fine. But even more importantly, it really comes off as beautiful, dark, impressionistic tone poem in its succint structure that far supersedes anything that came after. Also, the disco cue at the end is a nice bonus!

[Tallguy 3,399]

Close Encounters is THE original program that I consider to be perfect to this day. But the LLL is almost as good.

 

And the "disco" version is sublime. (I've heard it argued that it isn't disco per se, and I don't have a leg to stand on one way or the other. Anything that sounded more contemporary and was made in the late 70's was labeled the "disco version".)

[GerateWohl 4,370]

21 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

For its time, maybe, although I still don't get why half of DG's classical stuff from the 60s sounds ten times better than any film score from the 70s.

At my recent live concert visits I was wondering why, after all these years of recording experience, it is still such a challenge got get a concert piece properly recorded. Sitting in a concert hall the sound experience is so different from listening to a recording. I always wonder why at a live concert I am able to hear the quiet passages so clearly and at the louder parts my ears don't burst. At a recording, expecially of classical music, that is exactly the problem. At the more quiet parts I have to raise the volume, at the loud parts to lower it.

Here I always think, that recording producers of classical music could learn a lot from film music recording engineers.

[Andy 4,138]

On 28/3/2023 at 4:45 AM, GerateWohl said:

The disco version is great.

It sure is.  It’s an awesome arrangement, and here’s the only orchestral version of that pop arrangement I know of. Love this one:

 

 

[Faleel 5,356]

18 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

At my recent live concert visits I was wondering why, after all these years of recording experience, it is still such a challenge got get a concert piece properly recorded. Sitting in a concert hall the sound experience is so different from listening to a recording. I always wonder why at a live concert I am able to hear the quiet passages so clearly and at the louder parts my ears don't burst. At a recording, expecially of classical music, that is exactly the problem. At the more quiet parts I have to raise the volume, at the loud parts to lower it.

Here I always think, that recording producers of classical music could learn a lot from film music recording engineers.

Crush, compress and clip the hell out it? No thanks!

[Trope 527]

@Jay Could you clarify if Dark Side of the Moon or Outstretched Hands comes first in a chronological sequence?

[Jay 37,369]

"Dark Side of the Moon" combines an unused extension for Outstretched Hands with the original, unused version of "Vision Takes Shape". So you'd have to use audio editing software and split the track in two and move one piece into the bonus tracks to really make a strict chronological edit.

 

But if you want to leave the track alone you'd place it after Outstretched Hands in a playlist.

[Tallguy 3,399]

1 hour ago, Trope said:

if Dark Side of the Moon or Outstretched Hands comes first

 

1 hour ago, Jay said:

After

 

Um...

[pete 907]

As this been shared yet? Pretty new video... A very excited look at the harmony of mostly Inside and Contact if memory serves, much more than an exploration of the 5 note theme.  I wish I had ears and hands like this guy!

 

 

[Tallguy 3,399]

Oh thank you! I had seen this but skipped it.

 

"What on Earth was THAT?!?" Ha!

 

I don't know what you call it, but in Superman at 1:07 in Prelude and Main Title, I always called that the Close Encounters chord.

 

All of his reactions are pretty much how I look when I'm listening to this too. Glorious. But we all knew that.

 

And he hasn't even scratched the surface.