Ultimate Helena’s Theme Poll

[Garrett 153]

Self-explanatory

[Pieter Boelen 740]

I wouldn't call Helena a Mary Sue.

She may be capable, but she bumbles at times as well and certainly isn't flawless.

 

Rey also has reasons to be the way she is, as explained in "Before the Awakening".

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

What is Willie’s theme??

[Edmilson 7,466]

7 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

What is Willie’s theme??

Something JW wrote for his willie in order to make it seem more impressive for the ladies  

 

Just kidding. I'm sure he was referring to Temple of Doom.

[JNHFan2000 2,966]

19 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

What is Willie’s theme??

It's mostly in Nocturnal Activities and has a full orchestral statement in the end credits. It's also very "old Hollywood"

[Bellosh 3,419]

Whoa. Pitting Marion's theme vs Helena's theme...

 

I mean Marion's Theme is a staple, since it's basically the love theme to the Raiders March. But wow...I really like what I hear so far of Helena's theme all throughout the score. Marion's theme never really got that use.

 

So I'll say overall, Marion's Theme, but in leitmotif use, definitely Helena's Theme.

 

But this could legit change, I really really like Helena's Theme. Like a lot. And I didn't think I would when I first heard that live recording.

[Garrett 153]

1 hour ago, TheUlyssesian said:

What is Willie’s theme??

This is Willie’s theme

 

https://youtu.be/ZSAoeU_7UM8

 

Skip to 14 seconds in

[Holko 9,529]

Rey>Helena>Willie>Marion

[Tydirium 1,167]

Helena>Willie>Rey>Marion

 

(I could go back and forth on Rey and Marion, but I feel especially confident about putting Helena and Willie at #1 and #2, respectively.)

[GerateWohl 4,370]

I miss Irina's theme under 1. But it might not have many votes anyway.

Still it is a great theme for a lady in an Indy movie.

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

What about the nazi lady in TLC?

[p0llux 398]

As a massive golden age film music fan, Helena's Theme surpassed Marion's Theme for me day 1 when it premiered at the Hollywood Bowl. It wasn't even close. In comparison, Marion's Theme now just sounds like a lesser attempt at imitating a golden age theme. And now, Williams perfected it with Helena.

 

Edit: What sold me was actually the opening notes to the theme. The A F# C# D on the strings are irresistibly golden age sounding, I was completely immersed the first time I heard it.

[Bryant Burnette 654]

Well, good.  I see almost everyone has voted correctly.

19 minutes ago, p0llux said:

As a massive golden age film music fan, Helena's Theme surpassed Marion's Theme for me day 1 when it premiered at the Hollywood Bowl. It wasn't even close. In comparison, Marion's Theme now just sounds like a lesser attempt at imitating a golden age theme. And now, Williams perfected it with Helena.

 

Not this one.

[GerateWohl 4,370]

1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

What about the nazi lady in TLC?

Did she have a theme?

 

Marion's theme suffered for me always, that it sounded too close to Han Solo and the Princess but not as good. It was for me one theme too many starting off with that same intervall.

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

1 minute ago, GerateWohl said:

Did she have a theme?

 

I don't know, perhaps she's covered by the nazi theme.

[Incanus 5,715]

1. Marion

2. Rey

3. Helena's Theme

[JTN 2,030]

Marion's Theme > Rey's Theme > Helena's Theme

[GerateWohl 4,370]

It is funny, that probably because of its modular structure I was thinking a lot about Rey's theme recently a lot and how both themes, Rey's and Helena's, can be used so flexibly as romantic or unromantic emotional music or action track or whatever. Helena's theme is definitely Willams best theme since Rey's theme and if he doesn't get the Oscar this time the accademy is just stupid (I mean, even more than it already proved to be).

 

 

 

 

[Nathan95 66]

Could have made for an interesting poll thread, unnecessary and immature putting the "mary sue" thing

[JTN 2,030]

Great poll, thanks, @Garrett!

[TolkienSS 407]

I feel nothing when hearing Rey's theme. Granted, her character is as vapid as they come, but her theme feels like mandatory epic theme.

 

[Schilkeman 964]

3 hours ago, Nathan95 said:

Could have made for an interesting poll thread, unnecessary and immature putting the "mary sue" thing

Yeah, it's straight up bullshit

[filmmusic 1,836]

I didn't know what "Mary Sue" means, and I looked it up.

I didn't think it would be thought of as insulting.

[Schilkeman 964]

The term is loaded, often sexist, and has been banned from a number of Star Wars forums. 

 

For what it's worth, I think Rey is poorly written, but I think all the ST characters are poorly written, and it's unnecessary to single her out, and even more unnecessary for the purposes of this poll.

[Bellosh 3,419]

40 minutes ago, Schilkeman said:

The term is loaded, often sexist, and has been banned from a number of Star Wars forums. 

 

For what it's worth, I think Rey is poorly written, but I think all the ST characters are poorly written, and it's unnecessary to single her out, and even more unnecessary for the purposes of this poll.

 

Yeah and you know the OP probably never even heard that word prior to The Force Awakens.

 

Also wouldn't Marion be considered a Mary Sue? Also what would Short Round be considered????

 

Star Wars fans man.

 

edit: apparently i dont even know what it means

[Holko 9,529]

19 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

Also wouldn't Marion be considered a Mary Sue?

Lol no she devolves into a screaming damsel who keeps making the situation worse in the last setpiece she's in

[JTN 2,030]

21 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

Also wouldn't Marion be considered a Mary Sue?

Absolutely not. Marion is kidnapped for half the runtime of Raiders. First in Cairo, then at sea and remains a prisoner until she’s freed by the angels of God. 
 

[Bellosh 3,419]

dang yeah they really ditched that tough nepal bar act she was putting on

[iamleyeti 114]

Rey is not a Mary Sue :/ She is an important character with incredible skills, just like Luke or Han Solo :/ 

[Bellosh 3,419]

ok well Luke would have definitely been considered a Mary-Sue if ANH was a flop and Lucas never made the others.  

[iamleyeti 114]

And if Star Wars weren't so sexist…

[JTN 2,030]

10 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

ok well Luke would have definitely been considered a Mary-Sue

What? Luke almost gets killed by the sand people, is saved by Obi-Wan. Later almost gets killed at the Cantina in Mos Eisley, is again saved by Obi-Wan.

He first gets his ass kicked by that little floating planet when practicing on the Millenium Falcon. He knows nothing about travelling in hyperspace, gets lectured by Han. 
He almost gets killed on the Death Star in the trash compactor twice, first when he gets pulled down by the dianoga, second when they almost get squashed by the closing walls, and are saved by R2-D2 and C-3PO. Then he gets shot by a Tie-Fighter in the battle of Yavin (he loses R2) and is almost killed by Darth Vader and is saved by Han and Chewie. 

[Bellosh 3,419]

didn't rey get captured in TFA? and 'almost' get killed too a couple times?

 

or are their levels to being a mary-sue?  

[JTN 2,030]

5 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

didn't rey get captured in TFA? and 'almost' get killed too a couple times?

 

or are their levels to being a mary-sue?  

You said Luke would’ve been considered a Gary Stu had Star Wars been a flop. I just proved he is the exact opposite: a hero with many flaws. 

[Bellosh 3,419]

Gary Sue lol.  I like that.

[JTN 2,030]

2 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

Gary Sue lol.  I like that.

That’s the “official” term.

Actually it’s Gary Stu.

[Bellosh 3,419]

if this wasn't in raiders, i think i could choose Helena's easier

 

 

 

 

but this is so good too

 

 

[iamleyeti 114]

Luke is a shitty farmer. 95 minutes later he destroys the Death Star.

[mrbellamy 6,287]

I took the Mary Sue reference in this poll as sarcastic just cause I can't believe anybody is using it seriously anymore 

[JTN 2,030]

56 minutes ago, iamleyeti said:

Luke is a shitty farmer. 95 minutes later he destroys the Death Star.

And in between he almost dies and is saved several times before being helped by Obi-Wan’s Force ghost, the Force itself, the other rebels and Han Solo who saves him from being blasted to oblivion by Vader. 
 

MaRey Sue is perfect the second she appears on screen. She understands droids, aliens, knows how to drive the Millenium Falcon better than Han Solo and Chewbacca, knows how to use the Force without anyone ever teaching her, knows how to use a lightsaber, defeats a male Force user, who is the grandson of Anakin Skywalker and who was taught by Luke Skywalker. 
 

[iamleyeti 114]

That's the good thing with Star Wars, they have the Force. They can do anything. A kid is able to pilot the most dangerous NASCAR ever, but sure, only Rey is a weird little Mary Sue

Sorry for my tone, but using terms like "Mary Sue" is quite a sexist thing to say in my book.

[Tydirium 1,167]

1 hour ago, Bellosh said:

if this wasn't in raiders, i think i could choose Helena's easier

 

 

 

 

but this is so good too

 

 

 

The issue I have with “Flight to Cairo” (which is the same issue I have with the album version of Willie’s theme in “Map / Out of Fuel”) is that it’s not a complete statement of the theme; it leaves out the best part!

 

One of the great things about “To Athens” in comparison, is that we get the full theme. In fact, I felt so burned by “Flight to Cairo” and “Map / Out of Fuel,” that when I heard “To Athens” for the first time I was bracing myself for it to cut out right around 1:30. Once it got to 1:37 and was still going, I knew we were safe. 

[Bellosh 3,419]

Yeah that's true but the extra flourish on Marion's theme is just 🥰

[Andy 4,138]

Does anyone who's seen the film feel like Helena's theme, lovely though it is, doesn't quite fit this character, lovely though she is.  It is romantic and sentimental in a way that she is not.  I liked the character, and I love the theme, but it feels more glamorous and  elegant than our "Wombat".

 

Disclaimer, I haven't had a chance to give the OST a proper listen, and I didn't really pick up on the action arrangements of her theme while watching the engrossing film.

 

Oh, and I don't think Willie's theme is an exact fit for that character either.  Though I love it to death, Willie's Theme doesn't get enough love for sounding hopelessly romantic and old Hollywood itself.  Yet it remarkably can be tweaked for the comedy associated with the character.

[TolkienSS 407]

3 hours ago, iamleyeti said:

Rey is not a Mary Sue :/ She is an important character with incredible skills, just like Luke or Han Solo :/ 

 

You mean the Luke Skywalker who got his hand chopped off when he was on his own?

[Schilkeman 964]

1 hour ago, TolkienSS said:

 

You mean the Luke Skywalker who got his hand chopped off when he was on his own?

Luke’s failures don’t negate her success Senor Strawman.

[Courtney Sees Ghosts 269]

L for calling Rey and Helena mary sues. LMFAO

But Rey's Theme is my favorite score piece of all-time so you be the judge.

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

4 hours ago, Andy said:

Does anyone who's seen the film feel like Helena's theme, lovely though it is, doesn't quite fit this character, lovely though she is.  It is romantic and sentimental in a way that she is not.  I liked the character, and I love the theme, but it feels more glamorous and  than our "Wombat".

 

Disclaimer, I haven't had a chance to give the OST a proper listen, and I didn't really pick up on the action arrangements of her theme while watching the engrossing film.

 

Oh, and I don't think Willie's theme is an exact fit for that character either.  Though I love it to death, Willie's Theme doesn't get enough love for sounding hopelessly romantic and old Hollywood itself.  Yet it remarkably can be tweaked for the comedy associated with the character.

100%

 

I’ll maybe ruffle some feathers. 
 

 

the actual quotes of Helena’s theme in the score proper often sound like a villain/bad guy theme!

[Bryant Burnette 654]

8 hours ago, iamleyeti said:

That's the good thing with Star Wars, they have the Force. They can do anything. A kid is able to pilot the most dangerous NASCAR ever, but sure, only Rey is a weird little Mary Sue

Sorry for my tone, but using terms like "Mary Sue" is quite a sexist thing to say in my book.

 

It CAN be, and often is (especially in relation to Star Wars).  But "Mary Sue" characters do exist, so it's not totally useless as a designator.  It IS totally inappropriate to call Rey a Mary Sue, though.  Or if not inappropriate, certainly inaccurate.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

17 hours ago, Andy said:

Does anyone who's seen the film feel like Helena's theme, lovely though it is, doesn't quite fit this character, lovely though she is.  It is romantic and sentimental in a way that she is not.  I liked the character, and I love the theme, but it feels more glamorous and  elegant than our "Wombat".

It completely misses her villainous side.

So yeah, I agree.