James Horner - Early Scores re-recording project - Perseverance Records

[JNHFan2000 2,966]

https://filmmusicreporter.com/2023/12/21/perseverance-records-announces-new-recordings-of-unreleased-james-horner-scores/

 

"Perseverance Records Announces New Recorrdings Of Unreleased James Horner Score"

[Ollie 1,059]

I see they got an early start on the announcement. I though it was tomorrow, unless a more detailed response is coming.

 

 

I wonder what Sci-Fi score they could be re-recording? 
 

The only one that immediately comes to mind is BBTS. TWOK perhaps?

[JTN 2,036]

"Also in the works is the complete series of Horner’s concert works that he composed during his 37-year career, as well as a complete re-recording of a science-fiction score that will get the definitive performance treatment." 

 

Could it be ALIENS? 

[Edmilson 7,466]

Nah, it's probably not something as famous as Aliens or Star Trek. It's probably gonna be something very obscure, but I've got no idea what. 

 

Perhaps Brainstorm? Maybe no one found where those ellusive tapes of the American recording sessions were so they'll have to re-record the whole thing?

[Ollie 1,059]

Just now, Edmilson said:

Nah, it's probably not something as famous as Aliens. It's probably gonna be something very obscure, but I've got no idea what. 

 

Perhaps Brainstorm? Maybe no one found where those ellusive tapes of the American recording sessions were so they'll have to re-record the whole thing?

 

Good call. Didn’t think of that one.

 

 

[Thor 7,517]

19 minutes ago, JNHFan2000 said:

https://filmmusicreporter.com/2023/12/21/perseverance-records-announces-new-recordings-of-unreleased-james-horner-scores/

 

"Perseverance Records Announces New Recorrdings Of Unreleased James Horner Score"

 

Whoa, that's pretty nice right there. Count me in as a buyer already!

[crocodile 8,017]

Amazing, I am very intrigued.

 

Karol

[Erik Woods 555]

2 hours ago, JTW said:

"Also in the works is the complete series of Horner’s concert works that he composed during his 37-year career, as well as a complete re-recording of a science-fiction score that will get the definitive performance treatment." 

 

Could it be ALIENS? 

My guess based on the "definitive performance treatment" wording is BATTLE BEYOND THE STARS!

-Erik-

[Tallguy 3,401]

7 minutes ago, Erik Woods said:

My guess based on the "definitive performance treatment" wording is BATTLE BEYOND THE STARS!

-Erik-

 

I suppose I would love to be proven wrong, but I think that would be disappointing. Two months ago I might have been all on board with that.

[1977 1,743]

I'd love a new recording of Volunteers seeing that the licensor refuses to work with Intrada to get this one out. If I recall, Roger said a while back that the tapes are deteriorating so we may lose this one completely. 

 

In any case I'm very excited about this new set of recordings, especially as it carries the blessing of Sara Horner and others that care about preserving and honouring Horner's legacy.

[Erik Woods 555]

1 minute ago, Tallguy said:

 

I suppose I would love to be proven wrong, but I think that would be disappointing. Two months ago I might have been all on board with that.

While the Intrada release is great, the performances sucks! BBTS would benefit from a proper performance by a proper symphony orchestra. It would really make that score soar! 

 

-Erik-

 

[Yavar Moradi 2,599]

1 minute ago, Erik Woods said:

While the Intrada release is great, the performances sucks! BBTS would benefit from a proper performance by a proper symphony orchestra. It would really make that score soar! 

 

What would be really awesome is if David Newman would come back and conduct it!

 

Yavar

[Henry Sítrónu 494]

On 18/12/2023 at 9:13 PM, Erik Woods said:

Here you go!
https://web.archive.org/web/20160503015454/http://www.filmmusicmag.com/audio/fmr/ots/OTS-130_James_Horner_FMR_Archives_01.mp3

it's really entertaining and interesting. While speaking about Troy Horner spares no criticism on Wolfgang Petersen either.

"Gabriel and Wolfgang made the score together. 50/50. So what happens is they've had the score from god in the movie from god." 

[Edmilson 7,466]

8 minutes ago, Erik Woods said:

While the Intrada release is great, the performances sucks! BBTS would benefit from a proper performance by a proper symphony orchestra. It would really make that score soar! 

 

-Erik-

 

You're not wrong. But even though the performance on BBTS might be less than ideal, the fact that it was released so recently in an edition that even used AI to make the orchestra suck less makes me think that Brainstorm should be the real priority here.

 

It might be the only way we'll get that fabled Brainstorm expansion in our lifetimes.

[Henry Sítrónu 494]

2 hours ago, JTW said:

Could it be ALIENS? 

that would be so great and more than justified. Not necessarily because of the performance of the LSO but just in technical terms… Horner wasn't satisfied with the facilities at Abbey Road Studio:

"The facilities were 30 years old. They were barely able to patch in synthesizers much less be able to do some of the things I wanted to do electronically. I mean, they were so behind the times. The mixer, who is brilliant in Star Wars, was out of his league with this kind of a movie which needed all kind of modern recording techniques."
 

 

[Thor 7,517]

I never really got the "cult following" that scores like KRULL and BATTLE BEYOND THE STARS have, but that's me. I'm guessing the sci fi score will not be anything completely unreleased (as others have said, CAPTAIN EO is too short), and that minimizes my interest considerably, because then we're moving into dark expansion territory. I think the old BRAINSTORM album is pretty much perfection in terms of presentation. Never had an issue with the sound either, but I suppose it's possible to improve. At the very least, I would be open to sampling it in a new, fresh-sounding recording for curiousity's sake.

 

But the takeaway here is THE DRESSER, THE LADY IN RED, the concert works...I'm ready! I had a THE HAND boot on CD-R once, didn't much appeal to me, and the sound quality sucked, so it went in the trash. But again, maybe a spanking new recording can bring it back to life (no pun intended).

[Erik Woods 555]

1 hour ago, Edmilson said:

You're not wrong. But even though the performance on BBTS might be less than ideal, the fact that it was released so recently in an edition that even used AI to make the orchestra suck less makes me think that Brainstorm should be the real priority here.

 

It might be the only way we'll get that fabled Brainstorm expansion in our lifetimes.

The thing about Brianstorm is that we already have a BLOODY BRILLIANT recording of that score. I mean, it's Horner conducting the LSO with an Eric Tomlinson recording that's arguably the best he's ever done! What fans of Brianstorm really want are those original tracks.

 

 

1 hour ago, Yavar Moradi said:

 

What would be really awesome is if David Newman would come back and conduct it!

 

Yavar

Stop teasing me like that!

 

-Erik-

[Yavar Moradi 2,599]

8 hours ago, Edmilson said:

You're not wrong. But even though the performance on BBTS might be less than ideal, the fact that it was released so recently in an edition that even used AI to make the orchestra suck less makes me think that Brainstorm should be the real priority here.

Zero AI was used on BBtS by Intrada… Chris Malone and Doug Fake manually spliced in fixes from superior take sections.

 

Yavar

[Tallguy 3,401]

2 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

Zero AI was used on BBtS by Intrada… Doug Fake manually spliced in fixes from superior take sections.

 

Yavar

 

Thanks. I was going to chime in with that as well.

[Andy 4,141]

Man, this is just awesome news. More Early Horner and rerecordings yet to come?  There’s no denying Horner is getting incredible spotlight lately, and it feels great to be a fan. 

[Faleel 5,359]

5 hours ago, Thor said:

I never really got the "cult following" that scores like KRULL and , but that's me. I'

Its super sweet/gorgeous, and energetic, what's not to get?

[DangerMotif 1,038]

4 hours ago, Andy said:

Man, this is just awesome news. More Early Horner and rerecordings yet to come?  There’s no denying Horner is getting incredible spotlight lately, and it feels great to be a fan. 

Just need some Horner concerts now.

[Edmilson 7,466]

30 minutes ago, Presto said:

Its super sweet/gorgeous, and energetic, what's not to get?

Thor these days doesn't like to listen action-heavy scores. As far as I know, he used to but not anymore. And Krull with its busy and chaotic orchestrations seems to be far from the type of scores he likes to listen these days.

[Faleel 5,359]

11 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Thor these days doesn't like to listen action-heavy scores. As far as I know, he used to but not anymore. And Krull with its busy and chaotic orchestrations seems to be far from the type of scores he likes to listen these days.

Yeah, but there's not liking something.

 

and then there's not "getting" something

[JTN 2,036]

10 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said:

 

What would be really awesome is if David Newman would come back and conduct it!

 

Yavar

Indeed and I believe David would be game if asked (and paid) to do it.

[Jay 37,371]

Nikiforos Chrysoloras says

 

For clarification purposes, these projects refer to complete score re-recordings, reconstructed from the original material, not official arrangements as the post says. Printing error has been corrected and it will be showing on future press releases.

 

https://www.facebook.com/nikiforos.chrysoloras/posts/pfbid02nUhV2VdBnVP9sHZD4AznfB4toPKhZkjjczLKpqA65o1UEaGT7cRA7JeJZiQqG8bMl

[Corellian2019 386]

I think Bryon Davis mentioned before that Varese at one point was close to releasing the film recording of Brainstorm, but was stopped by Robert Townson. So take that as evidence that the original tracks survive

[Henry Sítrónu 494]

3 hours ago, Corellian2019 said:

I think Bryon Davis mentioned before that Varese at one point was close to releasing the film recording of Brainstorm, but was stopped by Robert Townson. So take that as evidence that the original tracks survive

why would he have stopped that? :/

[Edmilson 7,466]

2 hours ago, Henry Sítrónu said:

why would he have stopped that? :/

That's because...

[Corellian2019 386]

17 hours ago, Henry Sítrónu said:

why would he have stopped that? :/

 

Ego. Here is a link to Jay's post quoting the former Varese employees

[DangerMotif 1,038]

I assume this is the mystery project.

 

[Jay 37,371]

Perseverance has posted the news on their own website finally.  I think the text is the same as what Film Music Reporter posted 5 days ago

 

https://perseverancerecords.com/270-perseverance-records-honors-james-horner-with-original-recordings-of-unreleased-scores

[Tom Guernsey 2,286]

So the Horner re-recordings have been announced! The Hand and The Dresser… kickstarter link below…

 

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/robes/james-horners-the-hand-and-the-dresser-complete-re-recordings

[karelm 2,914]

On 21/12/2023 at 1:29 PM, Henry Sítrónu said:

that would be so great and more than justified. Not necessarily because of the performance of the LSO but just in technical terms… Horner wasn't satisfied with the facilities at Abbey Road Studio:

"The facilities were 30 years old. They were barely able to patch in synthesizers much less be able to do some of the things I wanted to do electronically. I mean, they were so behind the times. The mixer, who is brilliant in Star Wars, was out of his league with this kind of a movie which needed all kind of modern recording techniques."
 

 

 

It's really fascinating and I bet a book could be written about this topic.  First, we got a great score.  What could Horner have created that we didn't imagine if he had six more weeks or Abbey Road had better facilities?  What he's saying isn't wrong, Abbey Road knew it and did fix it, they talk about that in a spitfire walkthrough of the studio how during the late 1980's they made major upgrades.  Would it have mattered?  I believe this pressure resulted in the change in his style from his earlier scores and his mid/later scores.  Everything he says is spot on except what's complicated is and yet he managed to deliver.  Maybe he always feels this way.  You gave me six months but if I had eight more months what could I have delivered?  By the time of Troy (2004), he farmed out a lot of the work because he had to deliver a 2+ hour epic score in three weeks.  What could he have done with that if he had 8 more weeks?  If he had those 8 more weeks, what if he had 12 more weeks?  To what composer does this not apply?  It's probably diminishing returns. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,080]

On 21/12/2023 at 10:32 PM, Thor said:

dark expansion territory.

 

[Perseverance 1]

Just to pick up on this thread after not posting on it for a while, I'd like to inform the members on this esteemed board that we have started a Kickstarter campaign to fund this ambitious project, and your support will be greatly appreciated, nay, NEEDED, to make this a reality. Please click on the link below to check out the campaign. 

 

<https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/robes/james-horners-the-hand-and-the-dresser-complete-re-recordings>

[Edmilson 7,466]

Uh oh

 

 

Numbers aren't looking good so far. Didn't the kickstarters for Goldsmith and Rozsa also managed to achieve their goal?

[Yavar Moradi 2,599]

On 20/03/2024 at 1:05 PM, Edmilson said:

Numbers aren't looking good so far. Didn't the kickstarters for Goldsmith and Rozsa also managed to achieve their goal?

 

To date, literally every Kickstarter campaign to re-record classic film music has successfully reached its goal...even the one that was cancelled shortly after that! Here they are in order:

 

1. The earliest campaign was run by James Fitzpatrick/Tadlow Music, to re-record John Barry's Moonraker complete. It successfully surpassed its goal of £25,000 from a whopping 617 backers shortly before being cancelled on January 20, 2015, only 10 days after it launched.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/681802762/moonraker-new-recording/

Here's the message James Fitzpatrick sent out to backers at the time: "It is with great regret that I have to cancel this Kickstarter project before any funds are taken. Certain rights issues have been raised which might mean protracted negotiations with the companies involved which may well go beyond the end of the project. I would sincerely like to thank everyone for their involvement in the project and if negotiations are successful then I have the knowledge that there is a great demand for this title. Thank you for all your hard work."

 

2. The very first crowdfunded re-recording to actually happen was by James again, for Miklos Rozsa's King of Kings. It raised £44,382 from 342 backers compared with a £40,000 goal on January 4, 2018:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/681802762/king-of-kings-new-recording

Apparently even that higher amount didn't end up covering half of the recording costs, but even going into the campaign James was upfront that he would be covering at least half of the costs himself. So this was unusual in only going to fans for a fraction of the cost of recording... fortunate, however, since the costs of re-recording King of Kings were understandably so high! If James had asked for the full amount up front (the equivalent of at least $100,000 today) as he did for Moonraker, this Kickstarter might well have failed.

 

3. Intrada's first campaign was for Dimitri Tiomkin's Dial M for Murder, in which 404 backers pledged $49,313 towards a $45,000 goal on September 16, 2018:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/129145902/dial-m-for-murder-film-score-recording

I'll just note that around the halfway mark of the campaign, it still hadn't raised half of its goal. Many people predicted it wouldn't make it, but one large donor (perhaps the Tiomkin estate? I forget) caused a major jump in support and it still finished well over goal. But interestingly after this Intrada decided to start polling film music fans about what future re-recordings they were most interested in, rather than just picking a score and going with it...

 

4. Intrada's second campaign was for Jerry Goldsmith's Black Patch, which won 1st place in their original poll. Since that poll they had found the original recording of the suggested pairing, Face of a Fugitive... so instead they had Leigh Phillips reconstruct The Man by ear to still make it a twofer, since Black Patch wasn't much more than half an hour long. The pandemic resulted in this campaign being delayed, but it still managed to exceed its goal by more money (and a greater percentage) than either previous Kickstarter, reaching complete funding only two weeks in before the campaign was even halfway over! In the end 495 backers pledged $43,893 by September 5, 2021, compared with the modest goal of $38,000:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/129145902/black-patch-the-man-jerry-goldsmith-new-recording

 

5. Inspired by Intrada's success with early Goldsmith, Leigh Phillips then ran his own even more modest solo campaign to record "The Bar Mitzvah of Major Orlovsky", the composer's final original score for the General Electric Theater anthology TV series which he was able to reconstruct from an audio-only copy of the episode.. It funded in less than a week, so he then added the stretch goal of "Sarah's Laughter", another score for the series which only survived in written form. Ultimately, 154 backers pledged £4,638 by May 25, 2002 towards the goal of £2,800 (£3,600 including the stretch goal):

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lpfilmmusic/the-bar-mitzvah-of-major-orlovsky-jerry-goldsmith/

 

6. Intrada's third campaign followed a little while after that, this time for the 3rd place winner in their original poll, Bernard Herrmann's The Man Who Knew Too Much... only it wasn't the main score of the campaign! Due to its brevity (under half an hour long), Intrada selected a pairing for it of the 45-minute long (and larger orchestra) On Dangerous Ground, which constituted the primary goal of $50,000 for the campaign. To add on The Man Who Knew Too Much, an additional stretch goal of $10,000 bringing the total goal to $60,000 was stated at the very beginning. This made things rather interesting, because while funding success was more likely this way, it also risked leaving off the premiere score which was a much higher priority to most people! Luckily in the final day of the campaign it barely squeaked past the stretch goal amount, landing at $60,703 from 511 backers, a new record for Intrada, on July 6, 2022!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/129145902/on-dangerous-ground-the-man-who-knew-too-much-new-recordings/

 

7. The second Jerry Goldsmith at The General Electric Theater campaign from Leigh Phillips to tackle two scores up-front ("Hitler's Secret" and "The Legend That Walks Like a Man") ended at 132 backers pledging £3,876 by December 28, 2022 towards the goal of £2,800 (this goal was considerably lower than the first campaign's goal for two scores because Leigh was applying the overage from that campaign towards this one, to make it more likely to happen):

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lpfilmmusic/record-jerry-goldsmith-at-the-ge-theater-volumes-3-and-4/

(Since this campaign went over by more than £1,000, Leigh subsequently recorded the GE Theater score "The Last Dance" as "Volume 5" without running a campaign at all, supplementing that amount with a bit of his own personal money.)

 

8. Leigh Phillips's final Jerry Goldsmith at The General Electric Theater campaign tackled the remaining two extant Goldsmith scores for the series, "The Committeeman" and "My Dark Days" (the latter a two-part episode which meant the score required a full session on its own). When it reached the original funding goal of £4,700 at the one-week point, Leigh decided to turn the half-session for "The Committeeman" into a full session by adding the (similarly string-centered) library music score "Autumn Love" as an additional stretch goal bringing the total goal to €6300 (or whatever that was in British pounds at the time...right now that equates to ~£5,400). The stretch was passed with the campaign ultimately ending at £5,809 from 142 backers on November 5, 2023:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lpfilmmusic/record-jerry-goldsmith-at-the-ge-theater-volumes-6-and-7/

 

We now have two campaigns in process: Christopher Young's Nosferatu (54% of the $50,000 goal funded with 12 days to go... I'm pretty optimistic) and this Perseverance Records campaign to record James Horner's The Hand, The Dresser, and no less than seven(!!!) unheard concert works... that one stands at only 6% after 16 days so I'm a little less optimistic here since they set the extremely high goal of $128,900 off the bat! I'm hoping that if it fails, Perseverance will try again with a much more modest goal along the lines of Intrada's goal to record the two Herrmann scores. I think more people will be likely to join the campaign if it looks more likely to happen, and then if the goal is achieved Perseverance could add individual stretch goals for each of the concert works in turn, and record as many as there is extra funding to tackle. I don't know why they didn't think to do that from the beginning... or even set The Hand as the main goal and The Dresser as the first stretch goal.

 

I don't think I'm missing anything, but let me know if there's something I've forgotten (I know Kritzerland has done some Indiegogo campaigns, and Lukas Kendall did a campaign for the sci-fi short film he directed, but I'm talking just about crowdfunding campaigns for new recordings of classic film music.)

Yavar

 

[Andy 4,141]

So I want to pledge, but what’s the point?  Doesn’t look like it’ll make it.  I won’t lose my money. But if it somehow makes its goal and something “weird” happens, then I could actually lose my money?  It’s the out of comparable project goal amount that makes me uneasy.   Someone convince me, because I’d really like these, but my gut feels off. 

[Stark 316]

It looks like the only time anything weird happened, nobody’s money was taken, so I see no cause for worry.

[Perseverance 1]

Another Coup - Welcome Gloria Cheng! We are excited to announce Grammy & Emmy award winning pianist Gloria Cheng, who will be joining us in this endeavor. https://www.gloriachengpiano.com/ Her relationship with James Horner begun as early as 1986, performing on the An American Tail score, followed by Patriot Games, Clear and Present Danger, and Troy, to name just a few.  Apart from being widely recognized as one of the most adventurous interpreters of contemporary music around, Gloria is one of the most sought-after session pianist in Hollywood. She has worked with Don Davis, Michael Giacchino, Randy Newman, Maurice Jarre, Alexandre Desplat and she is John William's go-to-performer on the piano and has worked with him on many scores. And now she is performing on our recordings.  S' marvelous, s' wonderful!!!

[Smeltington 1,441]

I remember her from another kickstarter I backed! In fact I think it was the only one so far.

[Andy 4,141]

 

What the hell. Pledged. Let’s get this done.