THE BFG OST ALBUM Discussion

[bondo 33]

Is the album in chronological order, or is it the typical JW album that requires massive editing to achieve the film order?

 

I couldn't find an answer to this listed anywhere, so pardon me if I missed it.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

On 7/1/2016 at 1:15 AM, Jay said:

Here's my first stab at a chronological order of the OST

 

02 The Witching Hour (4:40)
03 To Giant Country (2:33)
05 Sophie's Nightmare (1:57)
07 Fleshlumpeater (1:36)
06 Building Trust (3:25)
08 Dream Jars (3:30)
13 There Was a Boy (3:29)
09 Frolic (1:43)
04 Dream Country (10:10)
10 Blowing Dreams (3:46)
11 Snorting and Sniffing (2:13)
15 The Boy's Drawings (3:05)
14 The Queen's Dream (3:08)
16 Meeting the Queen (3:00)
12 Sophie's Future (2:30)
17 Giants Netted (2:03)
18 Finale (2:13)
19 Sophie and the BFG (8:08)

01 Overture (1:18)

 

I'm actually not sure where There Was A Boy should go, nor do I know right now if any tracks contain cues from 2 different parts of the film combined together

 

 

Also I listened to the second half of the OST on my way back from the movie and in Giants Netted, the first minute is the "action climax" and the second minute is the start of the denouement of the film.  I don't remember now if they play connected together in the film like they do on the OST, and that first minute might be an edit of the full cue, I dunno.

 

@bondo

 

(So no it's not in chronological, but it's not horrendously far off or anything)

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

7 hours ago, natedog said:

 I just feel that at this stage is in his career he is winding down and is better suited to scoring more intimate films rather than the big movies he used to do.

 

Can you name a composer better suited to big movies if Williams is not up to scratch?

 

 

[bondo 33]

Thanks Disco Stu!

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

23 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

Can you name a composer better suited to big movies if Williams is not up to scratch?

 

 

 

Not that I necessarily agree with him, but:

 

James Newton Howard

Alexandre Desplat

John Powell

Thomas Newman

Hans Zimmer

Austin Wintory

Alan Silvestri

Howard Shore

Gabriel Yared

Dario Marianelli

[artguy360 1,843]

Oh god, are we really gonna do list wars in this thread?

 

The more I listen to the OST the more I like the thematic material that peaks its way thru all the whimsy. Sophie's Future is quite nice.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

List wars?  He asked a question, admittedly not to me, and I provided my opinion.  Is this a problem?

[artguy360 1,843]

List wars, it's a form of internet posting where people just write lists of things they like/don't like or rank crap. Is it a problem? Idk, but it's vapid.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

On 7/2/2016 at 3:13 AM, dfenton85 said:

 

Rey's Theme >>>> Sophie's Theme

Absolutely.  In fact, if somebody were to start a poll entitled "Sophie's Theme: Williams' Worst Theme Yet?", I'd probably vote yes.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

18 minutes ago, artguy360 said:

List wars, it's a form of internet posting where people just write lists of things they like/don't like or rank crap. Is it a problem? Idk, but it's vapid.

 

Is that at all what I did?

[artguy360 1,843]

6 minutes ago, TheWhiteRider said:

 

Is that at all what I did?

Yes but I don't want to go on about it. I'd rather talk about, ya know, the BFG score or something.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Well it was your choice to make a remark about what I posted.  I would like to go on about it.  What exactly about my answering a question in list form amounts to "vapid?"  Would you have preferred to read my suggestions in sentence form, separated by commas?  I considered that, but thought it would look too cluttered.  My post also doesn't meet your conditions of "things they like/don't like," as I was offering candidates based on orchestrational and dramatic abilities suited to "big" films, not my own taste.  A few names would probably not be on there if it were limited to that - not that I don't like all of them, but some more than others.

 

Your haste in brushing aside my post as "vapid" is, well, rather vapid itself.  

[ocelot 508]

On July 1, 2016 at 6:07 PM, TheWhiteRider said:

 

I know a lot of people too.  And I've heard them do it in their personal music.  Whether they're permitted to by employers is another matter.  

Dunno, I know I do it my music both personal and when I am writing for whatever they ask. 

 

On July 1, 2016 at 6:39 PM, Tom said:

The Dream Country track is sublime and mesmerizing--perhaps my favorite cue (not including concert pieces) from the last 10 years worth of his scores.   

 

On July 1, 2016 at 6:43 PM, TheWhiteRider said:

I do love the moment towards the opening, a little more than a minute in, with the wonderfully French harmonies and string solos in octaves.

Agreed, very Debussy in some areas, especially the solo strings octaves. There's a lot of french impressionism in that track.

10 hours ago, natedog said:

It's a good score if we're comparing it to contemporary films scores but it's distinctly average by Williams standards which is a really shame. The motif for Sophie is nicest that is about it, the rest is underscore and a grating, hyperactive flute. In fact i feel his standards have been slipping after 2005, i mean he is 84 for crying out loud so maybe i'm being a bit harsh. After so much excitement and anticipation for each new score, i've been left underwhelmed by The BFG, Lincoln and The Book Thief. I find TFA to be his weakest Star Wars score also, it's less operatic and has far less weight than the previous scores in the series. His themes aren't really iconic or memorable anymore although this may be because the films haven't been up to scratch. I just feel that at this stage is in his career he is winding down and is better suited to scoring more intimate films rather than the big movies he used to do.

Interesting opinion although I do not share it. I think The Force Awakens is one of his best scores ever. I think the playing on it is a bit shoddy in areas. The strings are just not focused or together in many spots. But the composition is fantastic. The brass writing is probably some of the best he has ever done. I'm not sure why he chose to not use so many woodwinds for color, that would be my only statement, but it was definitely a conscious decision considering the amount of woodwinds in The BFG. I definitely do not want him doing smaller scores. I still think he outranks everyone else when it comes to scoring big movies with great themes and brilliant chase music. Take a listen to the last 30 seconds of The Witching Hour. Love when he gets vicious and fast, no one else does it like that. Great writing, crunch runs, etc etc

[publicist 4,643]

It's really a score for those living in the past musically. It's not 'bad' of course, not even especially boring, more tiring and with a lack of direction coupled with the sheer amount of self-quotation (and Stravinsky in this case!) that now riddles Williams' scores since the splendid 'Memoirs of a Geisha'. For the vivid woodwind work i will keep a good 25 minutes worth but for the life of me i never want to hear more of the broad Potter fantasy scoring. It's just so anachronistic now and really needs to be put to rest at this point by either Williams and everyone else aping him. 

[ocelot 508]

2 minutes ago, publicist said:

It's really a score for those living in the past musically. It's not 'bad' of course, not even especially boring, more tiring and with a lack of direction coupled with the sheer amount of self-quotation (and Stravinsky in this case!) that now riddles Williams' scores since the splendid 'Memoirs of a Geisha'. For the vivid woodwind work i will keep a good 25 minutes worth but for the life of me i never want to hear more of the broad Potter fantasy scoring. It's just so anachronistic now and really needs to be put to rest at this point by either Williams and everyone else aping him. 

Wait, so you want people to stop using woodwinds for color? Everyone should start sounding like the directionless big scores like in the MCU films and Zimmer? Not sure what you are saying here.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Zimmer is directionless?  Have you ever studied how intricately he treats thematic materials?  How he creates subtle dramatic arcs within films and across multiple ones?

 

Also he wrote a score a few years ago which used 20 woodwinds.  

 

And youve radically misunderstood what Pub said.  Possibly on purpose.  There's a real rash of this lately here, artificial misunderstanding for the sake of argument!

[ocelot 508]

14 minutes ago, TheWhiteRider said:

Zimmer is directionless?  Have you ever studied how intricately he treats thematic materials?  How he creates subtle dramatic arcs within films and across multiple ones?

 

Also he wrote a score a few years ago which used 20 woodwinds.  

 

And youve radically misunderstood what Pub said.  Possibly on purpose.  There's a real rash of this lately here, artificial misunderstanding for the sake of argument!

Zimmer is a pop composer who has a stable of many younger composers doing most of the work for him so when you say ho he treats his thematic materials, I would say, who is treating those thematic materials? I give him props for giving these other composers work and starting them off, some on great careers, but he is no where near what you claim in my opinion.

 

And no I am not starting any arguments here, lol, if you know me like some do you would know I don't actually like to argue, I'm a pretty happy, nice guy who is blessed with a lot of what I have, and I am so thankful for all of it. I was asking what Publicist meant because I truly didn't understand what he said fully.

 

BTW, I was asked to join the zimmer ranks years ago and I declined. I do not believe Zimmer writes very well, and he has yet to come up with a theme that sticks with me. Plus again, as stated, there are many people writing scores for him that he puts his name to and maybe writes one thing for. It's a great well oiled machine there and I give him major props for starting it up and really starting off many people's careers, but he himself, is amazing with the tone of a movie, but his scores are mostly serviceable at best but many can go from one film to the other without much notice of difference and he doesn't really write for full orchestra well, HIMSELF. You might know him or know his composers as I do and you might have a different idea of him and you might prefer him to others. That's the whole point of music though, right? It's subjective. We don't all like the same things and that a good thing in my opinion or it would be a sad world we live in. Either way please do not mistake me for one of those trying to start arguments. But I will state what I know or what I think on subjects just as my point of view, that should be allowed for everyone I think.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

I wouldn't deny you your opinion, as others seem to love to do to me in this particular corner of the forum, so this impassioned plea for understanding is not necessary.  

 

I have a blunt way of communicating on here at times, and unapologetically, I might add. I tend to pounce on things I disagree with when the reasoning seems shoddy.  I enjoy the resultant sparring, even when it gets ugly.  Prudish rejection of this and of uncomfortable opinions is not for me.  I advise no one to take it personally. 

 

And yes, I do disagree with you about Zimmer and think that you take a somewhat caricatured, exaggerated view of things - but the phenomenon of split opinions on the man amongst his colleagues is so inexplicable and sharp that it's not worth getting into.  

[ocelot 508]

6 minutes ago, TheWhiteRider said:

I wouldn't deny you your opinion, as others seem to love to do to me in this particular corner of the forum, so this impassioned plea for understanding is not necessary.  

 

I have a blunt way of communicating on here at times, and unapologetically, I might add. I tend to pounce on things I disagree with when the reasoning seems shoddy.  I enjoy the resultant sparring, even when it gets ugly.  Prudish rejection of this and of uncomfortable opinions is not for me.  I advise no one to take it personally. 

 

And yes, I do disagree with you about Zimmer and think that you take a somewhat caricatured, exaggerated view of things - but the phenomenon of split opinions on the man amongst his colleagues is so inexplicable and sharp that it's not worth getting into.  

No worries, all good.

[Incanus 5,714]

While I am as big of a John Williams fan as there is, I have to admit that listening to the BFG was an oddly dichotomous experience. The score is as usual on the technical merits of recording and orchestration very good, excellent even, it has several themes in typical John Williams fashion and some of them are even quite memorable, there are some very engaging setpiece moments and the album on the whole is nice and entertaining but it is very familiar fare from start to finish with very keen stylistic callbacks to his past and indeed greater works. The very pronounced use of woodwinds might be the most unique aspect of this music as they are everywhere and this is not a dismerit by any means but this kind of whimsy we have heard quite a few times before from the composer. I oddly enjoyed even the completely strange mix of mickey mousing and his concert hall output in Dream Jars, which is perhaps the most original thing on this soundtrack.

 

Personally I found Dream Country setpiece/sequence a tad rambling and lacking in throughline, a collection of atmospheric moments, small frustratingly teasing flashes of gorgeous melodies that disappear as soon as they have arrived (never to return) and the ballet/mickey mousing mix of those flurries of flute voices. It doesn't quite sustain itself through the 10 minute stretch like e.g. the equally lengthy Remembering Childhood from Hook, which while 15 minutes long really keeps your aural interest throughout.

 

I still admire the way the Maestro constructs his themes and how he develops his material throughout and the album is for the most part really entertaining as I am not as averse to Williams' brand of orchestral magic and whimsy as some who will surely find this score challenging their blood sugar levels. Curiously this one took some time for me to get into in terms of emotion and narrative, which is uncommon as more often than not Williams' scores pack a very direct punch when fantasy/adventure scores are concerned. Sophie's theme as I said before is really the emotional lynchpin of this score and while it is curiously shy and never allowed to soar in the fashion of so many of Williams' fantasy themes, the idea becomes slowly through the album very heartfelt and touching, especially in its intimate statements and the finale of the score has that definite "and they lived happily ever after"-type of fairytale feel Williams and Spielberg often achieve together. So not a complete triumph but does have its wonderful moments of true JW magic sprinkled throughout.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

The thing about woodwinds though is it's not the instruments themselves that can "date" a score, but the way they're used.  And the way they're used here is definitely a throwback.  I think what Pub is more into, and me too, is a contemporary use of them.  Directors aren't afraid of flutes, they're afraid of twirling balletic flute runs.  Fine.  There are so many other ways to write for these instruments, that are idiomatic of contemporary music and aesthetics.  Guys like Reich, Glass, Adams, Takemitsu, Ligeti, have been doing it for decades now.  

[ocelot 508]

Agreed but there is a time to use them in both ways. Love Takemitsu, Adams and Ligeti. Some directors absolutely hate woodwind runs (I believe it's why Silvestri was replaced on but I think they are extremely effective in certain chase cues. My problem is I am not hearing them at all in so many scores nowadays except for the occasional sad solo with a Cor Anglais/English Horn or flute melody for a child. But in most films I do see, I just don't hear them anymore which is sad as they deliver the most color in the orchestra.

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

1 hour ago, publicist said:

It's really a score for those living in the past musically.

 

 

 

[publicist 4,643]

22 minutes ago, ocelot said:

 But in most films I do see, I just don't hear them anymore which is sad as they deliver the most color in the orchestra.

 

By implication this makes 'The BFG' a great score for it has woodwinds to make a player's lip bleed, right? Just that it doesn't. I never got this fuzzy and pedantic argumentation concentrating on side issues lke droll bassoon solos that completely shuts out even the mere mention of how often the maestro now has helped himself to that very idiom and by this time has long stopped to enrich it with any new ingredient. 

 

The bad box office may reflect on that as it is not only bad marketing etc. but also the distinct feeling that Spielberg is so chicken nowadays that he seems to actively demand old Hook and Potter leftovers. The patina seems not to have paid off in that case. 

[p0llux 398]

yea for some reason woodwinds are often forgotten in scores these days. Only the strings, brass, and percussion sections are enough to write a score these days. I get the feeling that today's film composers don't have a good understanding of writing for woodwinds, I'm not sure. Strings and brass are like the cake, but the woodwinds are the icing on top. It's like once you've got the cake, they just stop. No need to spend extra effort to add the icing. I don't know...

[ocelot 508]

37 minutes ago, publicist said:

 

By implication this makes 'The BFG' a great score for it has woodwinds to make a player's lip bleed, right? Just that it doesn't. I never got this fuzzy and pedantic argumentation concentrating on side issues lke droll bassoon solos that completely shuts out even the mere mention of how often the maestro now has helped himself to that very idiom and by this time has long stopped to enrich it with any new ingredient. 

 

The bad box office may reflect on that as it is not only bad marketing etc. but also the distinct feeling that Spielberg is so chicken nowadays that he seems to actively demand old Hook and Potter leftovers. The patina seems not to have paid off in that case. 

No No, I haven't said a word about BFG except that I like a few cues. There are many parts of this score that are way too meandering for me and it's not totally my cup of tea. Loving woodwinds is one thing, but I never said anything about this score in my last few posts. I love the way he used woodwinds in The Phantom Menace and Jurassic Park, Lost world and TinTin. They were succinct, to the point. The colors were amazing and the writing focused. I think they way he might have done BFG is that it will work on screen, but apart from the few cues where I think his writing shines through, a lot of it won't be on repeat listen to me except to learn more orchestration. Even if I think it is meandering, I can still learn from it. 

 

You can still use woodwinds to their full effect and still have an incredible score that sounds way better than leaving them out and having a score be "duller" in color. That's all I am saying. Don't read into it any more than that. I'm not saying that if you just throw up the whole woodwind section on a page, that's fantastic, lol

 

EDIT: Listen to just the last 30 seconds of "The Witching Hour" where he goes into a quasi chase. That's when I love his writing.

[publicist 4,643]

Then i must indeed wonder what you misread since i pointed out the more elaborate woodwind work as the only stuff i kept.

[KK 3,307]

Still haven't heard this score...should probably fix that.

[TownerFan 4,983]

2 hours ago, publicist said:

The bad box office may reflect on that as it is not only bad marketing etc. but also the distinct feeling that Spielberg is so chicken nowadays that he seems to actively demand old Hook and Potter leftovers. The patina seems not to have paid off in that case. 

 

Well, it's a children's film produced under the Disney banner, so I think it makes sense to convey a sense of familiarity from the music as well. I think we tend to forget a very simple and basic principle under which film music is produced: the composer follows the story and its needs, but also has to answer to both the filmmaker's wishes and the audience to which is communicating. As Morricone said many times, these are the three pillars on which the composer must build the work and also try to produce something that makes sense in purely musical terms. This means he reacts to the film in front of him and try to find the most congrous style and language. Aside from the subjective and personal preferences, I think it's amusing to see and hear him still trying to perfect the technique of accompanying the film with the old traditional means of the symphony orchestra with a very traditional, tonal vocabulary, as he does in this new work. Perhaps he doesn't need anymore to prove he's good at this style, but frankly he's now at a point in his artistic life where he really can do whatever it pleases him without worrying of doing something brazen or forcedly new. Personally, I find almost moving this tenacity at mastering the traditional symphonic language applied to film at his age. And I marvel at his expertise and craftsmanship of the orchestral textures and colors, but also at his way of doing a narrative in purely musical terms.

 

Perhaps you're right saying that this score pleases only the folks who live in the past musically (heck, when it comes to film music, I listen now mostly to works by dead composers, so it makes sense for me!), but honestly, Williams has never been a forward-thinking composer, imho and I don't mean it in bad terms. Quite the contrary, he restored and championed almost singlehandedly a style and an approach which was deemed dead and buried. Surely he showed a very diverse and eclectic voice throughout his career and sometimes dared at doing even experimental work for film, so we cannot pinch him down simply as the restorer of the symphonic swashbucking score, but he always operated within a very specifc tradition (i.e. the orchestral accompaniment music score) and possibly brought it to its extreme consequences. From this point of view, he's really the last of this breed.

[Chewy 2,391]

As many people here, after having listened to that score 3-4 times, I'm starting to enjoy it as much as it took some time for me to enjoy TFA.

 

I don't know what it means, either the music might be too complex to be enjoyable for the first listen or it's just because we get used to it.

[publicist 4,643]

1 minute ago, TownerFan said:

Well, it's a children's film produced under the Disney banner, so I think it makes sense to convey a sense of familiarity from the music as well. I think we tend to forget a very simple and basic principle under which film music is produced: the composer follows the story and its needs, but also has to answer to both the filmmaker's wishes and the audience to which is communicating. As Morricone said many times, these are the three pillars on which the composer must build the work and also try to produce something that makes sense in purely musical terms. This means he reacts to the film in front of him and try to find the most congrous style and language. Aside from the subjective and personal preferences, I think it's still amusing to see and hear him still trying to perfect the technique of accompanying the film with the old traditional means of the symphony orchestra with a very traditional, tonal vocabulary, as he does in this new work. Perhaps he doesn't need anymore to prove he's good at this style, but frankly he's now at a point in his artistic life where he really can do whatever it pleases him without worrying of doing something brazen or forcedly new. Personally, I find almost moving this tenacity at mastering the traditional symphonic language applied to film at his age. And I marvel at his expertise and craftsmanship of the orchestral textures and colors, but also at his way of doing a narrative in purely musical terms.

 

Perhaps you're right saying that this score pleases only the folks who living in the past musically (heck, when it comes to film music, I listen now mostly to works by dead composers, so it makes sense for me!), but honestly, Williams has never been a forward-thinking composer, imho and I don't mean it in bad terms. Quite the contrary, he restored and championed almost singlehandedly a style and an approach which was deemed dead and buried. Surely he showed a very diverse and eclectic voice throughout his career and sometimes dared at doing even experimental work for film, so we cannot pinch him down simply as the restorer of the symphonic swashbucking score, but he always operated within a very specifc tradition (i.e. the orchestral accompaniment music score) and possibly brought it to its extreme consequences. From this point of view, he's really the last of this breed

 

While all this is right if you view it in the appropriately long terms - i could do without the oh so-tired reference to Star Wars, a 40 years old movie, though - i still happen to believe that this defensive line of thinking that always seems awfully busy in shielding Williams from ANY kind of criticism is the wrong approach, at least if you are honestly reviewing a work, not just fan-gush it ('The BFG' might be a bit slight in the first place to undergo such scrutiny).

 

Intellectually neither score nor movie interest me much, so i see that more as an exercise in discussing the art form itself, and in this micro case of course an artistic regression that always played a big factor in commercial filmmaking. There are thousands of reasons that can be lined up in defense of this pragmatic approach - it has to satisfy, as you say, directors, studios and so on. But in the end, the cumulated effect is woeful. Now we have the choice between sub-par new works (exaggarating) and those who just trod out old clichés, however skillfully applied.

 

I for one would like scores like this if not more 'daring' at least idiomatically one or two inches removed from past glories. And that is not too much to ask, even for an 84-year old composer - and, indeed, from his employer who hasn't asked for more since a long time now.

[TownerFan 4,983]

I don't think Williams has to be shielded from any kind of criticism. It's fine to criticize him, his approach and the results he gets from that, of course. Personally, I didn't find anything so utterly or blatantly repetetive in this new score. Surely he used a very consolidated, clear and probably clichéed vocabulary, but I still feel a sense of fun and joy from his part. And maybe for me this is enough to enjoy it without worrying too much about how it ranks in his own overall output (a typical trait with the works of every composer in their final part of their lives).

[publicist 4,643]

As i said, Williams is not the starting and end point of the discussion. It (The BFG) is just a symptom for a larger climatical thing in Hollywood.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Listened to this a couple of times.

 

Just listening to overture brings you into the musical world of john Williams. 100% pure williams

 

This score is Big F*cking Great!

[TownerFan 4,983]

1 hour ago, publicist said:

As i said, Williams is not the starting and end point of the discussion. It (The BFG) is just a symptom for a larger climatical thing in Hollywood.

 

IMHO, there are much worse symptoms about what's wrong with current Hollywood film music than Williams delivering a score such as The BFG.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

7 minutes ago, TownerFan said:

 

IMHO, there are much worse symptoms about what's wrong with current Hollywood film music than Williams delivering a score such as The BFG.

 

Agreed. Just go listen to Gregson-Williams' "Legend of Tarzan" score released on the same day as BFG. I gave it a single listen over the weekend and hoo boy is it boring.

[crumbs 14,316]

Just now, Disco Stu said:

 

Agreed. Just go listen to Gregson-Williams' "Legend of Tarzan" score released on the same day as BFG. I gave it a single listen over the weekend and hoo boy is it boring.

 

I guess in his defence, the subject matter doesn't sound particularly inspired (unsurprising with Captain Bland at the helm).

[publicist 4,643]

40 minutes ago, TownerFan said:

IMHO, there are much worse symptoms about what's wrong with current Hollywood film music than Williams delivering a score such as The BFG.

 

For me, not really (though i wouldn't rate the score as hard due to its playful nature, Williams is still a solid B minus while the Tarzan score after one quick run through is somewhere at D). The 'repertory value' a german magazine once invented is the same: if a work within a canon is almost exclusively repeating prior successes, the rating can't be a top grade (a real fan would disagree but they would shower everything wioth oscars, too).

[Jay 37,364]

6 hours ago, Incanus said:

Personally I found Dream Country setpiece/sequence a tad rambling and lacking in throughline, a collection of atmospheric moments, small frustratingly teasing flashes of gorgeous melodies that disappear as soon as they have arrived (never to return) and the ballet/mickey mousing mix of those flurries of flute voices. It doesn't quite sustain itself through the 10 minute stretch like e.g. the equally lengthy Remembering Childhood from Hook, which while 15 minutes long really keeps your aural interest throughout.

 

[...]

 

Sophie's theme as I said before is really the emotional lynchpin of this score and while it is curiously shy and never allowed to soars in the fashion of so many of Williams' fantasy themes, the idea becomes slowly through the album very heartfelt and touching, especially in its intimate statements and the finale of the score has that definite "and they lived happily ever after"-type of fairytale feel Williams and Spielberg often achieve together. 

 

Both of these "problems" with the score is directly to to the film itself.  That is kind of how the Dream Country sequence is (a bunch of slow moments punctuated by brief flights of fancy), and Sophie never has a big cathartic moment that would call for a grand statement of her theme; The climax of the film is indeed very short and practically over before you realize you are even in the climax of the film.

[Marcus 390]

After finally receiving the CD today, and still only  halfway through the score, I have to say I'm completely BLOWN AWAY! 

 

This score is an absolute treasure trove of orchestral brilliance; Williams' writing is as effervescent as ever, and there's a concert musical freshness and sense of discovery and invention to this music that is pretty peerless.

 

Just take something as delightful as "Dream Jars": It's absolutely astonishing in its originality of concept, and probably one of Williams' most virtuosic -and virtuosically written- pieces of film music ever.

I mean: 2 and a half minutes just for the flute section soli!

Who else would write something like this for film today? Who else could pull it off?

 

This score ASTONISHES me. And I'm only 9 tracks in.

 

 

 

[TownerFan 4,983]

41 minutes ago, publicist said:

 

For me, not really (though i wouldn't rate the score as hard due to its playful nature, Williams is still a solid B minus while the Tarzan score after one quick run through is somewhere at D). The 'repertory value' a german magazine once invented is the same: if a work within a canon is almost exclusively repeating prior successes, the rating can't be a top grade (a real fan would disagree but they would shower everything wioth oscars, too).

 

I know what you mean and I agree that The BFG isn't JW's most memorable work ever. But it's still a beautiful, colorful piece of film music written by one of its greatest composers (I think something like "Dream Jars" is enough to be delighted, but that's just me). Is it one for the ages? Probably not, like some of Goldsmith's late years works that were usually lambasted at the time of their release, but that listened today still reveal the touch of a true artist even if they don't belong to his greatest masterworks' list. Maybe Williams should have followed his pal Andre Previn's suggestions and say goodbye to Hollywood long ago to work just on concert music, who knows. But he sounds sincerely happy to be still active and working for these kind of films. We surely live in a strange time, where JW looks like kind of forced to return once again to past successes like Star Wars and Indiana Jones because the industry is totally out of ideas and led by conglomerates which are in constant need of formulas for success.

10 minutes ago, Marcus said:

This score is an absolute treasure trove of orchestral brilliance; Williams' writing is as effervescent as ever, and there's a concert musical freshness and sense of discovery and invention to this music that is pretty peerless.

 

I too can't help but being amazed at the playfulness of his writing here. I dunno, maybe I'm hypocritical, but I always love Williams' exuberance. And I agree with you on "Dream Jars"--it's really an étude for flutes that could (and should!) be taken into the instrument's repertoire already.

[Jay 37,364]

I wonder if Dream Jars could actually be a concert arrangement, or one of those partial film cues w/ album only extension deals.  I'll be sure to compare when I get the chance.

[Jediwashington 59]

7 hours ago, Incanus said:

Sophie's theme as I said before is really the emotional lynchpin of this score and while it is curiously shy and never allowed to soars in the fashion of so many of Williams' fantasy themes, the idea becomes slowly through the album very heartfelt and touching, especially in its intimate statements and the finale of the score has that definite "and they lived happily ever after"

 

Agree completely. Her theme is so simple and gentle. It's genius in a "holding back" way. As well, I think he sets us up thinking it will be a dazzling theme at somepoint to match the size of Sophie's hopes, but the film makes a left turn to have a bittersweet end, and Williams shows you that he really wrote a lullaby to comfort Sophie for the rest of her days, not a sweeping motif for her dreams. The treatment of the motif grows as she does as a character. I think it's great of him to hold back and I feel that it is the creative, artistic, and humble approach to this score that makes it great. 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

2 minutes ago, Jediwashington said:

 

Agree completely. Her theme is so simple and gentle. It's genius in a "holding back" way. As well, I think he sets us up thinking it will be a dazzling theme at somepoint to match the size of Sophie's hopes, but the film makes a left turn to have a bittersweet end, and Williams shows you that he really wrote a lullaby to comfort Sophie for the rest of her days, not a sweeping motif for her dreams. The treatment of the motif grows as she does as a character. I think it's great of him to hold back and I feel that it is the creative, artistic, and humble approach to this score that makes it great. 

 

I like this interpretation.  It really is a very modest movie and Sophie is ultimately a rather modest character in terms of her hopes and dreams. She doesn't want to fly, she just wants a family. "Finale" reflects this modesty with a warm and subdued piano performance of her theme.

[ocelot 508]

10 hours ago, publicist said:

but for the life of me i never want to hear more of the broad Potter fantasy scoring. It's just so anachronistic now and really needs to be put to rest at this point by either Williams and everyone else aping him. 

That's the part I was asking about. "The Broad Potter Fantasy Scoring" 

 

Potter 3 is one of the best scores in modern times to me. What did you mean by broad? I took it to mean the whole thing, as in that whole style.

[Jay 37,364]

On 7/4/2016 at 5:12 AM, TownerFan said:

The "scary motif" on muted trumpets heard first in "To Dream Country" and reprised several times over the course of the score reminds me both of the "Panama Hat" motif from The Last Crusade and Sakharine's theme from Tintin.

 

I can see how you can say it reminds you of the Panama Hat theme, but it doesn't remind me of it (or rather, I never would have made the connection myself).  It represents the bad dreams / nightmares in the film, btw.

 

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Anyone else loves the mysterious theme heard first in "The Witching Hour" and reprised in "There Was a Boy"? It's such a great little theme.

 

It's my favorite theme in the score, shame its really only used twice.  I dunno what it represents.

 

 

20 hours ago, curlytoot said:

I can't get over how great the horns sound in the nightmare portion of "Sophie and the BFG"—half playing open, half playing stopped at 5:41, then all of them playing stopped at 5:43. So sinister.

 

Great stuff, there's a similar passage in Sophie's Nightmare

[Incanus 5,714]

4 hours ago, Jay said:

 

Both of these "problems" with the score is directly to to the film itself.  That is kind of how the Dream Country sequence is (a bunch of slow moments punctuated by brief flights of fancy), and Sophie never has a big cathartic moment that would call for a grand statement of her theme; The climax of the film is indeed very short and practically over before you realize you are even in the climax of the film.

I somehow gathered as much. Sophie's theme is very lovely none the less.  

[curlytoot 97]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

Great stuff, there's a similar passage in Sophie's Nightmare

 

Yep, and in "The Queen's Dream".

[King Mark 3,631]

I saw the film

 

There seems to be a lot more unrelaased music than what Jay claims , especially i  the first half of the film

 

There is ONE big rendition of Sophie's Theme... it's the one micro edited out of the OST in Giants Netted

[Will 2,215]

On 7/4/2016 at 1:47 PM, mrbellamy said:

While I was watching the film, I sort of interpreted the melancholy section as their friendship theme....it usually seemed to play in little heart-to-heart scenes between the two of them, whereas the "main theme" worked as a friendship theme but was just as often a standalone identity for Sophie. But they are two sides of the same coin.

 

Well, as I've noted before, that "melancholy section" is first heard in the film in "The Witching Hour" as Sophie stares at a doll house in the orphanage, alone (and the "main theme" is NOT heard in the film until after "To Giant Country," I think; I can't remember the exact cue of the first appearance but I don't think we'd heard it yet by the end of "To Giant Country"). The doll house scene is a very personal moment for Sophie, indicating that the "melancholy section" is her individual theme (or part of such a theme) although I suppose the melody heard there could be a friendship or BFG theme if it was foreshadowing the later events. 

@Disco Stu

 

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I've seen a lot of "sidebar shade" thrown at Lincoln in this thread. Lincoln is honestly one of my personal favorite Williams soundtracks! I love him in his Coplandesque mode and I find his music for Lincoln deeply emotional and compelling. Sorry to get off topic, I just had to respond to all the "I guess it's at least better than Lincoln" type comments I've seen.

 

Lincoln was actually the first non-action/adventure, more restrained Williams score I ever heard. And I loved it. I had figured I would find it boring because before then I had only listened to stuff like "Raiders March," "Throne Room and Finale," "Theme from Jurassic Park," etc. But it was gloriously emotional and a perfect introduction to a different side of Williams.