Composer Threads Official Danny Elfman Thread

[Andy 4,138]

Might be interesting to see if some of his OOP stuff starts getting dumped on eBay, or if there’s any noticeable effect on their market value. 
 

Regarding Nightbreed, that may be the hold up, but I was thinking that could also be why Film Score Monthly locked the thread and won’t allow discussion there, for fear of hurting Intrada’s business, and of course the sales of Elfman stuff from all of the labels. 

[JTN 2,030]

52 minutes ago, ddddeeee said:

 

The more I read Elfman and Elfman's rep's statements, the more awful they sound. 

Have you read the entire Rolling Stone article? If not, you SHOULD.

[crocodile 8,017]

It's a dangerous thing to make assumptions either way. There are so many possible variables that we might not be aware of. People do things hard to comprehend all the time and there's an almost infinite amount of possibilities of what might be happening there. Both women and men are capable of incredible cruelty for reasons we might not understand, I will give all of them "credit" for that. I will wait to see how it all develops. There's way too much speculation based on very little information.

 

Karol

[mstrox 6,651]

How could one have read all of the statements from Elfman’s camp if they hadn’t read the article those statements came from, JTW?

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

It's unclear to me whether one read all of the statements. 

[mstrox 6,651]

I understand your request, but as an AI language model on the ChatGPT iOS app, I'm limited to providing brief responses of just a few sentences. Writing 1000 words is beyond the scope of this chat format.

However, I can offer some key points on how one can tell if someone has read all the statements:

1. Comprehensive Responses: If the person addresses all the statements in their reply, providing relevant and detailed responses, it's likely they read all the statements.

2. Specific References: Look for direct references to the statements in their reply, demonstrating that they have engaged with each one individually.

3. Sequential Order: If the person responds to the statements in the same order they were presented, it indicates they read them all.

4. Absence of Misplaced Focus: When the person doesn't focus solely on one statement or topic but covers multiple aspects from different statements, it suggests they read all of them.

5. Accurate Acknowledgment: They may mention the number of statements or specific details from each statement, showcasing their comprehension.

6. Relevant Questions: If the person poses relevant questions related to different statements, it implies they have carefully considered each one.

7. Reflection on All Statements: A comprehensive response may show reflection and thoughtful consideration of the content presented in all the statements.

8. Time Taken: If the person takes an adequate amount of time to respond, it may indicate they read and analyzed all the statements.

Remember that context is essential, and the above indicators may not always guarantee that someone has read all the statements. It's crucial to consider other factors and exercise understanding when evaluating someone's engagement with the content.

[JTN 2,030]

I wonder if this situation will affect Intrada’s “upcoming” release of NIGHTBREED.
I wish it wouldn’t.

11 hours ago, mstrox said:

How could one have read all of the statements from Elfman’s camp if they hadn’t read the article those statements came from, JTW?

Maybe one was biased? 

[Thor 7,508]

As I'm a completist of Elfman's work (tradionally my second favourite composer after JW, now "bumped down" to 6th place for reasons that have nothing whatsoever to do with this situation), this has obviously taken me long to absorb. I'm not even sure I'm ready to comment on it yet.

 

All I can say is, it's a bad situation either way - if the woman speak the truth, or if Elfman speaks the truth. It will have ramifications. It will never affect my love of his music, but it will affect my love of the person if the former turns out be the truth. I need to let this one develop on its own and see what happens.

[karelm 2,914]

On 28/07/2023 at 10:55 AM, Thor said:

As I'm a completist of Elfman's work (tradionally my second favourite composer after JW, now "bumped down" to 6th place for reasons that have nothing whatsoever to do with this situation), this has obviously taken me long to absorb. I'm not even sure I'm ready to comment on it yet.

 

All I can say is, it's a bad situation either way - if the woman speak the truth, or if Elfman speaks the truth. It will have ramifications. It will never affect my love of his music, but it will affect my love of the person if the former turns out be the truth. I need to let this one develop on its own and see what happens.

 

I agree with you that it's a bad situation either way and I haven't fully formulated my thoughts on the topic as this is a tricky and loaded topic.  Some general thoughts I have though is the victim pretty much hates men.  She's in a music composer forum I'm in and is almost always aggressive towards any opinion that doesn't align with her points as being example of patriarchy and demonstrating further examples of industry wide abuse towards women.  The truth is this very same thing has happened to almost everyone in the industry, not just women.  On the other side, it is very, very hard to imagine any scenario where Elfman would pay nearly a billion dollars and be completely innocent as he claims.  My intuition is it is probably something in the middle like he probably did something inappropriate while under the influence, not that that excuses him, but might mean it isn't something in character and he might truly have no recollection yet did something very inappropriate too.  Clearly, it's a male dominated industry and there are very few protections in place (there is no corporate HR to complain to for example).  In my experiences, there have been near fist fights and blows during work sometimes between boss and staff and this happened to men and women.  Lots of derogatory talk (they might tell you to go jack off for a bit in a room full of mixed audiences if they need to chat privately), naked pictures or porn sitting openly around, stuff like that.  This was way before #METOO and I'll assume they've cleaned up their act quite a lot but the point is can be a generally abusive environment and sometimes that abusiveness is emotional, physical, sexual, or substance too and the lines can be blurry. 

[GerateWohl 4,370]

Recently saw a documentary about abuse and misuse of assistants in science at universities. Same story. Seems these structures evolve everywhere where have hierarchical structures with no control instruments like code of conduct, behaviour policies, ombudsmen, but people are really dependent on some professor, superior, mentor whatever.

[michael_grig 472]

57 minutes ago, karelm said:

nearly a billion dollars

$830,000*

[JTN 2,030]

1 hour ago, GerateWohl said:

but people are really dependent on some professor, superior, mentor whatever.

And where there is a young woman who looks like this and is fully aware of her sex appeal when approaching a famous, married film composer. 

[mstrox 6,651]

Oh fuck off

[Brónach 1,302]

i hope you're all ugly and permanently covered in dirt stained bedsheets like ghosts, so that none of you is aware of anything

[mstrox 6,651]

I am!

[Mephariel 451]

There is nothing wrong with showing off your sex appeal. That is not a crime. Guys and ladies in the entertainment industry do it all the time. People in other field do it as well. Sexual assault on the other hand, is. I am not saying Elfman is guilty, but her sex appeal is completely irrelevant. 

[Bespin 8,483]

5 minutes ago, Mephariel said:

There is nothing wrong with showing off your sex appeal. That is not a crime. Guys and ladies in the entertainment industry do it all the time. People in other field do it as well. Sexual assault on the other hand, is. I am not saying Elfman is guilty, but her sex appeal is completely irrelevant. 

I think he showcased more his "sex" than just his "sex appeal".

 

I know, it may seem like a small detail... well, I say "small"... I really don't know! 😄

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

I'm glad I ordered Darkman recently!

[Brónach 1,302]

Elfman by Danny Darkman?

[karelm 2,914]

On 21/07/2023 at 8:08 AM, mstrox said:

There’s really no reason to doubt the story.  She went on to advocate for survivors of abuse and assault within the industry without naming names for years, and there are people she came to at the time with that information.  The fact that Elfman’s camp cops to all of the stuff that is proveable (“Well sure he sent her a picture of what he said was semen in a glass, but it was a joke!”) and vehemently denies everything that isn’t proveable one way or the other certainly stinks of fish.  For me as the outside consumer who is not personally impacted, these things always a bummer, never really a surprise…

 

Not true.  There are many possible reasons to doubt it.  One scenario I experienced firsthand; a young woman hired by a prominent composer used that opportunity to promote her own career - a big no no.   While she was working for the composer, she presented herself and her music in secret instead of the composer she worked for just to get an in with the producers.  She was fired on the spot when it was discovered.  That isn't unusual.  Opportunities are rare and people sometimes take a risk that can get them fired.  It can be a cutthroat industry.  Your teammate could say I have your back till it benefits them not to.  Did you ever hear of her before this?  I doubt it.  I'm not saying if her allegations are true or false, just that you can't possibly claim her name and reputation were destroyed.  She had no name and Elfman was a major name.  That's the whole power imbalance.  By the way, women can be guilty of this too!  Read the massive thread by Jeremy Soule's accuser...women executives were at fault because they were part of the old boys club when they became executives.  It's way, way more complex than you make it to be.

 

I still think it's worth adding substance abuse and other topics because all of these happen at the same time and what someone might think is sexual assault might actually be something else.  It can be very unclear.  Here is another example...I dated a musician.  During that time, I hired an orchestra for a score.  I asked the contractor to hire my gf.  He said that would not work well for her.  The other musicians would banish her because she got "special treatment".  So by my hiring her as my gf, I would harm her career.  We then broke up.  She claimed I hurt her career by limiting her opportunities.  It's really tricky and your "no reason to doubt the story" is not true.  

[mstrox 6,651]

?

[JTN 2,030]

9 hours ago, mstrox said:

Oh fuck off

 

[GerateWohl 4,370]

8 hours ago, karelm said:

Did you ever hear of her before this?

Her tracks on spotify are played less than 1000 times and sound like some kind of not very good Tori Amos immitation like you might find from hundreds of amateur YouTubers.

No idea, what she was Grammy nominated for.

[JTN 2,030]

9 hours ago, karelm said:

Did you ever hear of her before this?  I doubt it.

And you’ll most likely never hear of her ever again. 

57 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

No idea, what she was Grammy nominated for.

Grammy Elfman

[ddddeeee 257]

 

[ddddeeee 257]

Elfman is co-writing a concert piece for violin, percussion and solo voice with two other composers. I think the other composers are Powell and Beltrami.

[Jay 37,369]

Source?

[JTN 2,030]

15 hours ago, ddddeeee said:

 

Danny has such an amazing voice.

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

I bet he does voice exercises every day or at least before interviews. 

[ddddeeee 257]

I came across this interview with Nomi Adabi from earlier in the year. She refers to the case with Elfman a fair bit, obviously not using him by name because it had not gone public yet.

 

Season 2, Episode 1: Nomi Abadi — Ella Jarman-Pinto (ellajarmanpinto.com)

 

Some takeaways from quite a heavy listen:

 

She alleges at 32:35 hat her aggressor has done this to 'many' other women, specifying a woman in the 1990s.

 

She knows that if the story were to break, there are lot of texts messages that will be used against her as it took her a long time to realise she was being abused.

 

She lost contact with a lot of people, including friends, mentors and her therapist, who didn't believe her. (The Rolling Stone article mentions that some of Adabi's closest friends didn't believe her, and they are referred to here.) But her career soon took off in a positive way once she removed herself from the situation.

 

I know - we don't know anything etc. But Elfman's been my favourite composer for twenty years and I can't help but want to know as much as possible.

 

EDIT:

 

In a separate interview that seemingly took place after this one, Abadi says that she doesn't know if her aggressor (Elfman) abused anyone else.

 

47:55

57. Composing for Film & TV with Nomi Abadi | Empowered Artist Collective Podcast (podbean.com)

 

 

[mstrox 6,651]

Saw the Summer School thread bumped by a spambot on FSM, and now I wonder if this quick turn from LLL on “Summer School” was related more to the impending allegation than anything having to do with the release/score itself.  

 

 

Just idle wondering, no real way of knowing I guess.

 

 

 

 

[ddddeeee 257]

Apparently Elfman and his team had no idea it was coming until not long before, so I'd be surprised if Lalaland knew more than a month ahead. 

 

I'm no expert at all on this sort of thing, but I don't see how Elfman can 'win'. He missed payments. Even if he and his team could unequivocally prove that no abuse took place, he agreed to making those payments, no?

[livinglavidaloca 4]

On 15/08/2023 at 12:37 PM, ddddeeee said:

Apparently Elfman and his team had no idea it was coming until not long before, so I'd be surprised if Lalaland knew more than a month ahead. 

 

I'm no expert at all on this sort of thing, but I don't see how Elfman can 'win'. He missed payments. Even if he and his team could unequivocally prove that no abuse took place, he agreed to making those payments, no?

 

 

Is it possible his accountants made a mistake? Presumably he has people in charge of his financial affairs. 

[mstrox 6,651]

Danny forgets to deposit a paycheck or two, and now he’s canceled!!!

[TolkienSS 407]

Apparently I now live in a world where refusing to pay hush money  enforced through blackmail is now immoral.

 

Stop paying her and ignore her. Let her struggle for relevancy.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,534]

If I owed money to someone, I would make sure that there was a paper trail, and that every penny was accounted for.

 

 

On 12/08/2023 at 2:42 AM, ddddeeee said:

... Elfman's been my favourite composer for twenty years and I can't help but want to know as much as possible.

 

Really? JW has been my favourite composer for almost fifty years, and I want to know nothing of his private life.

[ddddeeee 257]

I mean I don't care how he picks his nose or where he walks his dog, but do I want to know if he's an abuser? Absolutely.

[Brónach 1,302]

16 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Really? JW has been my favourite composer for almost fifty years, and I want to know nothing of his private life.

 

JW couldn't possibly be worse than Stravinski for sure.

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

He picks his nose?

[Edmilson 7,466]

Don't worry, I don't think John Williams has been using his johnson for anything other than pee for the past few years.

 

In his case, the expression "playing with his wiener" certainly refers to the Wiener Phillarmoniker and not, well, his wiener.

[Brónach 1,302]

he gets to play with a bigger wiener than any of us!

[livinglavidaloca 4]

[]

 

 

On 30/08/2023 at 1:30 PM, ddddeeee said:

I mean I don't care how he picks his nose or where he walks his dog, but do I want to know if he's an abuser? Absolutely.

 

Same. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

2 hours ago, Brónach said:

he gets to play with a bigger wiener than any of us!

 

With all its flubs and timing issues!

[Andy 4,138]

2 hours ago, Brónach said:

he gets to play with a bigger wiener than any of us!

I’m lost… we’re talking about his baton, right?

[Edmilson 7,466]

1 minute ago, Andy said:

I’m lost… we’re talking about his baton, right?

Do you mean his fun stick? His skin flute? Heat-seeking moisture missile?

 

Or just the thing he uses to conduct the orchestra?

[ddddeeee 257]

19 minutes ago, livinglavidaloca said:

Well, a Danny fan created this website about the case and apparently quite a bit of info:

 

www.dannyelfmantruth.com

 

 

 

Same. 

I saw this. A post is clearly, erm, inspired by my write-up on the Abadi interviews. Not sure how I feel about that. I do appreciate all the disclaimers, though.

[livinglavidaloca 4]

8 minutes ago, ddddeeee said:

I saw this. A post is clearly, erm, inspired by my write-up on the Abadi interviews. Not sure how I feel about that. I do appreciate all the disclaimers, though.

 

Yeah, this is where they found it. 

And how/why I joined. 😄

I'm not the fan who made the site, though. But I know them through the fandom. 

[livinglavidaloca 4]

On 30/08/2023 at 4:19 PM, ddddeeee said:

I saw this. A post is clearly, erm, inspired by my write-up on the Abadi interviews. Not sure how I feel about that. I do appreciate all the disclaimers, though.

 

On second thought, we should probably remove that link. Someone's most likely going to misinterpret the page or something. Not sure how to remove posts on here? Everything merges, too?

[Jay 37,369]

8 hours ago, livinglavidaloca said:

Not sure how to remove posts on here?

 

You can't remove a post, but you can click "Edit" and change it to anything you want. 

[Thor 7,508]

Not sure why you want it removed. It's a nice resource site for this particular issue, even if it is "slanted" towards Elfman's side.