Tom 4,660 Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 I would not try to glean too much from comparing statements from Abrams and Trevorrow. I think they are both peddling more spin and ego-jockeying than reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 53 minutes ago, oierem said: But since it does seem to matter, we should assume that it's very possible that they would lie to us about it. (after all, Lucas lied about Vader being the father from the beginning for this very reason). The filmmakers on the sequel trilogy have been much more upfront on these issues than Lucas ever was, though. Nothing in the interview with Abrams explicitly states that Palpatine's return was prefigured before The Force Awakens came out. Only the title of the article suggests this, so as to get people to click, no doubt. Kathleen Kennedy's "statement", too, reads like something the overly-eager journalist all but put in her mouth. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 34 minutes ago, Tom said: I would not try to glean too much from comparing statements from Abrams and Trevorrow. I think they are both peddling more spin and ego-jockeying than reality. I've never had that impression of them, both seem like genuinely good people. Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 That's whats makes it so spookey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,317 Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 20 minutes ago, Arpy said: I've never had that impression of them, both seem like genuinely good people. I'm with @Tom on this one. Something feels disingenuous about Trev's comments, especially that part where he mentions JJ retaining his ideas. Seems more like CT justifying his story credit and one-noting himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 I've read the original, unabridged interview. It reads to me more that Abrams got to reuse concepts from the development of The Force Awakens (e.g. exploring the ruins of the Death Star) rather than having used The Force Awakens (much less its sequel) to drive towards any particular beat that he had in mind for Rise of Skywalker. In fact, he says: Quote [Rian Johnson] wrote his story. And [only] when I read the script, I realized this didn’t get in the way of anything Larry and I talked about[...]But the specifics of Palpatine? I wasn’t supposed to do this movie.[...only when]I got back on that train, I started asking where does this go?[...]we went back to the threads that were exciting to us and then we found new ones. Arpy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 It's hard to tell from those comments alone, detached from the context they were probably said in that they were anything other than genuine responses, not peddling bullshit and spin. Abrams, Trevorrow and Johnson were sharing notes (which is honestly better than each director going in blind and with their own ego) and each probably had ideas that overlapped/merged/expanded naturally, and why would Trevorrow feel the need to boast? Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 Chen, wouldn't Abrams be reading the script for The Last Jedi - as referenced in the interview? So it would place the discussions/ideas after TFA but still before TLJ and TRoS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 9 hours ago, crumbs said: More to the point, does it really matter? ^^^^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 4,660 Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 Trevorrow knows full well that Abrams has been saying for months that Palps was part of the plan from the beginning. I think he went out of his way to call bullshit on it. He is probably right, which is my point that both of them are engaged in an ego-match. crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balahkay 627 Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 Did Snoke come into the picture when the idea of the Emperor coming back was dropped? Would the Emperor still have come back for final film if Snoke was still alive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviazn 273 Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 On 11/25/2019 at 10:52 PM, mrbellamy said: Sometimes i feel like people just look for things not to like. This is like the oldest joke template in the book....same statement said three different ways. Exclamation, question, statement. Hardly meta. If anything it's incredibly old fashioned. Vaudeville stuff. Who said meta isn’t old-fashioned? Vaudeville is all about breaking the fourth wall and calling attention to itself. The meta-ness here isn’t the template, it’s that it references the audience’s incredulity as the joke. And that’s precisely what I don’t like in Star Wars. Lucas built a world and by and large played its story straight, and that’s where it gets so much of its power from. It intersects with and resembles or tweaks our own universe, but those similarities or divergences aren’t played for a laugh. Everyone in the universe accepts the universe in which they reside as real to them. Technological surprises—like a clone army, or quad lightsabers—are immediately accepted by the characters, who react to them according to their motivations, not to give the audience a laugh. Calling attention to the artifice of the films by constantly acknowledging what they mean to the audience is Abrams’ choice, but I have never agreed with it. Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 That whole "you probably don't recognise me because of the red arm" schtick was a far worse offender than "they can fly now?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,513 Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balahkay 627 Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 The line was perfect was C-3PO. Cerebral Cortex and MikeH 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,287 Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 2 hours ago, aviazn said: Who said meta isn’t old-fashioned? Vaudeville is all about breaking the fourth wall and calling attention to itself. The meta-ness here isn’t the template, it’s that it references the audience’s incredulity as the joke. And that’s precisely what I don’t like in Star Wars. Lucas built a world and by and large played its story straight, and that’s where it gets so much of its power from. It intersects with and resembles or tweaks our own universe, but those similarities or divergences aren’t played for a laugh. Everyone in the universe accepts the universe in which they reside as real to them. Technological surprises—like a clone army, or quad lightsabers—are immediately accepted by the characters, who react to them according to their motivations, not to give the audience a laugh. Calling attention to the artifice of the films by constantly acknowledging what they mean to the audience is Abrams’ choice, but I have never agreed with it. I don't know how 3PO, Finn, and Poe being surprised and annoyed that the troopers are flying after them on jetpacks isn't a reasonable reaction for those characters in the moment. I fail to see how is this any different from Han going "Hey! It's me!" right into camera in Return of the Jedi, or Obi-Wan going "I hate it when he does that" out loud to himself/the audience when Anakin jumps out of the speeder in AOTC...Watto going "What you think you're some kinda JEDI waving your hand around like that??" which is Lucas deliberately subverting our familiarity with that trick for a gag. That's off the top of my head. I know there are others in Return of the Jedi and especially the prequels which are chock full of in-jokes. I get thinking they're dumb, some are funnier than others, but Star Wars calling attention to Star Wars really isn't new. Bayesian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 There's some wink-and-nod humour in the previous entries, to be sure. Its certainly been dialed up for the sequel trilogy - because its part of the contemporary aesthetic - although The Force Awakens used it in moderation to the point that it was rather enjoyable. The Last Jedi, not so much. 4 hours ago, Tom said: Trevorrow knows full well that Abrams has been saying for months that Palps was part of the plan from the beginning. But that's the thing: Abrams hasn't been saying this for months. Basically what happened is that one journalist all but put this information in Kathleen Kennedy's mouth, and that's basically it. Abrams didn't speak on this matter until this recent interview, and even here he's suspiciously vague upon the whole affair. aviazn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 Was “they fly now?” intended to provoke laughter? Unlucky Bastard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,287 Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 Yes, except for you. JJ told me. Cerebral Cortex 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 What’s the joke? They are flying, and the characters are acknowledging this newfound ability. Unlucky Bastard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,457 Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 Geez, are you guys seriously overthinking a small and innofensive joke on a Disney movie? No wonder the MCU has so many haters down here. Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 4,660 Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 3 hours ago, Kasey Kockroach said: What’s the joke? They are flying, and the characters are acknowledging this newfound ability. You are trolling, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Arpy 4,145 Posted November 26, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 26, 2019 They troll now? The Illustrious Jerry, Muad'Dib, Smaug The Iron and 5 others 4 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tom 4,660 Posted November 26, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 26, 2019 They troll now? Will, The Illustrious Jerry, Bilbo and 3 others 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,317 Posted November 27, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 27, 2019 They troll now! Cerebral Cortex, Kasey Kockroach, Bilbo and 6 others 3 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post The Illustrious Jerry 3,356 Posted November 27, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 27, 2019 3 hours ago, Arpy said: They troll now? 3 hours ago, Tom said: They troll now? 33 minutes ago, crumbs said: They troll now! Cerebral Cortex, Muad'Dib, Bilbo and 2 others 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 I’m just wondering what the joke IS! I’m intrigued! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,513 Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,287 Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 7 hours ago, Kasey Kockroach said: I’m just wondering what the joke IS! I’m intrigued! Kasey Kockroach 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theMaestraX 106 Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 George Lucas's CRITICAL reaction to the TRAILER! Miss You George! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,367 Posted November 27, 2019 Author Share Posted November 27, 2019 On 11/25/2019 at 1:04 PM, Edmilson said: LOL https://birthmoviesdeath.com/2019/11/25/for-one-brief-moment-a-star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-script-was-on-ebay It was Boyega Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 Wow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 I knew it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demodex 557 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 I think what Trevorrow meant was Abrams had the idea to bring Palpatine back when he was brought on board to write and direct The Force Awakens. Therefore the two are not contradicting each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 That's not an 'idea', that's a cop-out. Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 3 hours ago, Demodex said: I think what Trevorrow meant was Abrams had the idea to bring Palpatine back when he was brought on board to write and direct The Force Awakens. Therefore the two are not contradicting each other. Doesn’t read like that to me. Oh well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Abrams always had the idea, but never told anyone about it to avoid leaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theMaestraX 106 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 'It waz ME!' Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 4,660 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 KK confirmed that it was the intent to have Palps back in IX all along. Either she and JJ are lying or Trevorrow is. In the grand scheme of things it does not really matter, but contradictions are still contradictions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Trevorrow just wasn't paying attention - that's probably why he was fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 I'm not really upset that Palpy returns. He did anyways in the old EU. Vader's sacrifice had been undermined in the old continuity for twenty-plus years of comics and novels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demodex 557 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Tom said: KK confirmed that it was the intent to have Palps back in IX all along. Either she and JJ are lying or Trevorrow is. In the grand scheme of things it does not really matter, but contradictions are still contradictions. I don't think Trevorrow is lying. Abrams had the idea to bring Palps back when he wrote TFA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 4,660 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 7 minutes ago, Demodex said: I don't think Trevorrow is lying. Abrams had the idea to bring Palps back when he wrote TFA. Well, then KK is lying, as she said the plan was always to have him in IX. Do you not think she would have communicated such a trifle to the writer for IX? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demodex 557 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 13 minutes ago, Tom said: Well, then KK is lying, as she said the plan was always to have him in IX. Do you not think she would have communicated such a trifle to the writer for IX? No, KK isn't lying. This isn't difficult. A way that this all fits so that no one is lying is that when Abrams was brought onboard to do TFA he had the idea of bringing Palpatine back in the final movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 4,660 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 17 minutes ago, Demodex said: No, KK isn't lying. This isn't difficult. A way that this all fits so that no one is lying is that when Abrams was brought onboard to do TFA he had the idea of bringing Palpatine back in the final movie. https://hnentertainment.co/kathleen-kennedy-says-palpatines-return-for-star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-was-always-in-the-blueprint/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demodex 557 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Exactly. You just proved my point. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 4,660 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 No, KK is saying it was Lucasfilm's (as in her) plan, not just JJ, though he may have had the idea first. This means that whoever was to write IX would be following the mold, which in this case was Trevorrrow. Again, she may be misrepresenting things, but this is what her words mean. It is nice that you want no one to be lying, but at least one of them is. It is no different from Lucas claiming Darth Vader was always to be Luke's father, Luke and Leia sisters, etc. they are lies, but they make sense from a PR point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demodex 557 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 No where in that link does she say it was her plan. My theory makes sense and doesn't contradict anything in that link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oierem 152 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Well, bringing Palpatine back is hardly an original idea; it's the most obvious (and cheap, in my opinion) story development. I don't doubt that it was discussed from the very beginning. Now, whether they had actually decided to bring him back when they did TFA or not is not clear. The lack of any hint of Palpatine being alive in either TFA or TLJ is rather telling. As is the intentional spoiler of letting everyone know Palpatine is back well before the movie comes out (if they had kept it a secret, and we only found out watching the movie, a lot of us would be disappointed at such a cheap option. Instead, they let the idea sink in months in advance, so every fan knows about it and has, more or less, accepted it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now