Star Wars Music is Getting Worse - Beyond The Last Jedi & John Williams - A Music Philosophy Review

[BTR1701 59]

I don't agree with all of this guy's analysis, but he does make some good points, especially regarding the overuse of the Force Theme.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB4lULC87Oo

[Not Mr. Big 4,533]

Meh

[John 2,032]

it’s a no from me, chief

[BTR1701 59]

2 minutes ago, John said:

it’s a no from me, chief

 

What's a no? Your antecedent is vague.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,324]

Just go listen to Korngold. Or watch an Errol Flynn movie instead of what passes for an adventure movie nowadays. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,261]

TFA didnt overuse the Force Theme at all. TLJ did. Probably had something to do with the directors.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,324]

They probably FORCED him to use it!

[publicist 4,640]

It's stolen from Wagner!

 

 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,775]

Didn't Williams rip it off from an unused Fortress of Solitude track?

[Chen G. 3,515]

3 hours ago, Stefancos said:

TLJ did.

 

From memory, either Attack of the Clones or Revenge of the Sith (or both) also relied a bit too heavily on The Force theme, so it’s a trap that Williams has fallen into before.

[Bilbo 3,707]

TLJ was disappointing in its lack of new music. It was a bit of an OT and TFA highlight reel with a meh new theme for Rose 

[leeallen01 2,130]

This video is awful. He clearly doesn't understand film music or how any of Williams' or Giacchino's scores work. I was cringing throughout this video. 

[Incanus 5,655]

4 hours ago, Stefancos said:

TFA didnt overuse the Force Theme at all. TLJ did. Probably had something to do with the directors.

Could it be that Rian Johnson temp tracking most of the film with old JW Star Wars music and not having an actual spotting session with the composer might have something to do with it.

[leeallen01 2,130]

4 minutes ago, Incanus said:

Could it be that Rian Johnson temp tracking most of the film with old JW Star Wars music and not having an actual spotting session with the composer have something to do with it.

 

This. Exactly this. 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,775]

Yes... that's it. Exactly.

[crocodile 7,679]

Let me give you my perspective on Williams and his "decline"...

 

I'm in my mid-30's now and I already often feel like I'm running out of energy. Williams wrote his first Star Wars score in his mid-40's... 42 years ago! And now he's still writing them and they are both twice as long as that first one. So, if you think about it, he wrote, 4 times the amount of music in those couple of years for two films with another one coming out soon. After 40+ years it's quite a normal thing to take Williams' contributions for granted and, yeah, they are probably not as "fresh" anymore. But the fact itself that we're still getting music quite this good is amazing. They might be bit underwhelming if you put them in context of his larger body of work by, make no mistake, this is highly accomplished music and any of his colleagues would agree.

 

One of my first reactions to hearing some of the busier passages in The Last Jedi while attending the midnight showing was: "That doesn't sound like a guy in his mid-80's. Is he doing coke now?" 😂

 

Karol

[Jim Ware 488]

9 hours ago, BTR1701 said:

I don't agree with all of this guy's analysis, but he does make some good points, especially regarding the overuse of the Force Theme.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB4lULC87Oo

 

What a load of bollocks.

[JoeinAR 1,943]

Was this just a ploy to get Jim Ware to post?

[mstrox 6,242]

Nothing made for YouTube is worth watching.

 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,775]

10 minutes ago, mstrox said:

Nothing made for YouTube is worth watching.

 

 

Not even ASMR? What about Monster Island Buddies?

[mstrox 6,242]

I don't know what any of that is, because I learned many years ago to wisely avoid Youtubers!

[leeallen01 2,130]

Accept for Mauler. 

[mstrox 6,242]

Pass!

[Chen G. 3,515]

4 hours ago, leeallen01 said:

This video is awful. He clearly doesn't understand film music or how any of Williams' or Giacchino's scores work. I was cringing throughout this video. 

 

In general, the "video essay" is a flawed format because of how laborious and long it is. However, I do think that he makes a couple of good points.

 

Humans are incredibly adaptive, and so it is important to avoid excessive  repitition, because there comes a point where - no matter how awe-inspiring a piece of music is, how beautiful a shot is or how captivating a story or piece of drama is - if you showcase it too long, it just becomes banal.

 

The Force theme, beautiful as it is, is well on its way to becoming that.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,775]

5 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

The Force theme, beautiful as it is, is well on its way to becoming that.

 

Good luck getting away with that statement in the Williams-Is-A-God hive.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,261]

4 hours ago, Incanus said:

Could it be that Rian Johnson temp tracking most of the film with old JW Star Wars music and not having an actual spotting session with the composer might have something to do with it.

 

I'm very sure it has. That's why some of it sounds like TOD.

[Chen G. 3,515]

I was going to say it sounded like Revenge of the Sith. I know the film was temp-tracked with it, and there's even a visual nod to that film in The Last Jedi.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,261]

Rian has stated that the whole film is temp tracked, and that he didnt have any spotting sessions with Williams. So no surprises there, Chen.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,483]

Star Wars ended in 2005.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,261]

It didn't die of old age, either. It was poisoned, stabbed, shot, hung, stretched, disembowelled, drawn and quartered.

[Chen G. 3,515]

Wrong movie, mate...

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,483]

Not exactly a man of the people. Also known as Lucas the cruel, Lucas the torturer, Lucas the despised and Lucas the unholy.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,261]

3 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Wrong movie, mate...

 

It's just as good as the original Ghostbusters!

[Kasey Kockroach 2,324]

2 hours ago, mstrox said:

Nothing made for YouTube is worth watching.

 

Don’t be mean to Nitro Rad!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,775]

33 minutes ago, Ghostbusters II said:

Not exactly a man of the people. Also known as Lucas the cruel, Lucas the torturer, Lucas the despised and Lucas the unholy.

 

Wasn't he also Lucas the Butch?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,261]

You think there's a connection between this Lucas character and the... slime?

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,483]

Is the cost of LucasFilm 4.05 billion?

[gkgyver 1,645]

Hit the nail on the head. Until he said Star Wars should abandon leitmotifs. That would mean more meaningless drivel that plagued The Last Jedi.

[Bryant Burnette 608]

Happily for me, I'm not the kind of person who would even click on a link with so idiotic a premise.

[gkgyver 1,645]

16 minutes ago, Bryant Burnette said:

Happily for me, I'm not the kind of person who would even click on a link with so idiotic a premise.

 

Meaning you don't even want to listen to reasons or arguments, if you just get a sufficiently succinct title that lets you judge a book by its cover, and revel in that wonderfully unfounded feeling of supriority.

In short, you're the kind of person that is helplessly superficial.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,483]

When Williams composed TLJ, he had a fever and the only prescription was more force theme.

[crocodile 7,679]

13 hours ago, Ghostbusters II said:

Star Wars ended in 2005.

1980!

 

Karol

[Unlucky Bastard 7,775]

1 hour ago, crocodile said:

1980!

 

Karol

 

1976! When the novelisation was released.

[crocodile 7,679]

19 minutes ago, dougie said:

 

1976! When the novelisation was released.

1958!

 

 

Karol

[Arpy 4,124]

Oh no, Williams didn't use the Force Theme AGAIN, did he? That theme that is universally loved, that accompanies scenes concerning the power of the force, connects characters musically?

 

If he used it only three or four times in the film people would still complain - they'd say 'Ermahgurd, like, he only used it like three times, like what even?'

 

 

[Holko 8,908]

9 minutes ago, Arpy said:

Oh no, Williams didn't use the Force Theme AGAIN, did he? That theme that is universally loved, that accompanies scenes concerning the power of the force, connects characters musically?

 

If he used it only three or four times in the film people would still complain - they'd say 'Ermahgurd, like, he only used it like three times, like what even?'

 

 

I am somewhere between you and the naysayers - in TLJ it does feel like every semi-inspirational speech or minor turning event gets the Force theme.

[Chen G. 3,515]

It doesn't function as "The Force" theme in that film.

 

Its more of a "something-remotely-impactful-is-hapenning" theme.

[Alex 2,730]

It’s 2019 and people are still whinging that RJ didn’t have a spotting session with JW. Boo hoo, it really had no detrimental effect on the final product. That was just his way of doing things. He even produced a isolated score version of the film, confirming his disdain for JW and his music.

 

I love both TFA and TLJ and they both contain a lot of awesome stuff. “Rey’s Theme” obviously trumps anything written for TLJ but the action music written for TLJ is far superior, heck, that whole “Escape” cue is some of the most exhilarating action music JW has written this century. 

 

I do kinda agree on the overuse of the Force Theme.

 

 

 

[crumbs 13,870]

A well reasoned, sensible post! Thank you @Alex, completely agree.

 

For all the criticism the score receives, the level of artistic and technical prowess on display is still vastly superior to anything Williams' contempories are writing for film. And he's writing over three hours worth of it!

 

Some people are just in desperate need of perspective. 

[Chen G. 3,515]

Oh, its a good score, to be sure.

 

And, as is said in the "essay", it at least has a chance to be heard. On the whole, I'd say that makes it more effective as a film score to The Force Awakens.