WilliamsStarShip2282 308 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 I remember actually seeing the promotional video of the score recordings which disappeared off the internet when his score was replace by Newton Howard. Does anyone know anything about the history of the music in Peter Jackson's King Kong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,017 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 No, it's still available. Karol WilliamsStarShip2282 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamsStarShip2282 308 Posted February 19, 2020 Author Share Posted February 19, 2020 thanks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,317 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 This remains a weird anomaly to me. Unless Shore or Jackson don't want this released, why the hold up in getting this recorded music out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Perhaps Shore or Jackson doesn't want this release out there. Do we know whether Shore got to complete his score, and record all of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Quintus 5,399 Posted February 19, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 19, 2020 5 hours ago, crocodile said: No, it's still available. What an outrageous waste of everyone's time and resources. This was the beginning of the rot settling into Jackson's artistic integrity as a director. crocodile, Wojo, crumbs and 3 others 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,017 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said: Perhaps Shore or Jackson doesn't want this release out there. Do we know whether Shore got to complete his score, and record all of it? Not all of, I don't think. But there was a large chunk of it recorded (if not the majority). Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,317 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 I vaguely recall reading that something like 60-80 minutes was recorded but not all of it. I don't know if Shore had fully written the entire score though, presumably he had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 He should have made a better score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Jackson was OK with it, Universal execs grew increasingly irritated and when shit came to shove, Shore was axed as a measure to counterbalance others irksome factors (length etc.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Shore's score probably sounded too much like LotR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,017 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 20 minutes ago, publicist said: Jackson was OK with it, Universal execs grew increasingly irritated and when shit came to shove, Shore was axed as a measure to counterbalance others irksome factors (length etc.). Hollywood studios have a very strange philosophy of axing things by doubling the cost. 🤔😆 Karol 1977 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 If I recall correctly, I've seen Doug Adams say (here? on Twitter?) that it will probably be released somedy - that would lead me to believe that Shore is somewhat interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 They would need to record the remainder of the music he composed, which could be too expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,457 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 7 hours ago, crocodile said: No, it's still available. Karol So, they actually set up an entire top notch recording stage, hired the NZSO, and recorded a lot of music (?) before cancelling everything. All of this mess was Universal's fault? I mean, because Jackson surely would've listened to some previews before making this whole circus... right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Jackson definitely must have heard and approved demos before they went into recording. So pub's theory seems pretty apt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,367 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Paging @Jim Ware and @Doug Adams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 38 minutes ago, Edmilson said: So, they actually set up an entire top notch recording stage, hired the NZSO, and recorded a lot of music (?) before cancelling everything. All of this mess was Universal's fault? I mean, because Jackson surely would've listened to some previews before making this whole circus... right? Hardly uncommon, sadly. However, many factors come at play in such situations, it's not always this black and white so that one can find the culprit in some dumb studio executive or some micromanaging director. In the end, it's just a business. Btw, Shore allegedly reworked some of the material he wrote for King Kong for his concert work Six Pieces. Edmilson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamsStarShip2282 308 Posted February 19, 2020 Author Share Posted February 19, 2020 Thats whats strange. With the mock ups ahead of time, which is the purpose of having them to approve of the music in advance, then why go to the trouble of the recording and spend all that money? It seems like to me since LOTR the Jackson films have a monstrous budget and at least watching a lot of the special feature stuff, they needlessly spend a lot of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,692 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 If you read Torn Music, the book on rejected scores, there are many instances of the 'powers that be' changing the music at great expense when there wasn't anything substantially wrong with the music. The reasons detailed in the book are everything from the film being rubbish, to some executive getting nervous about some unusual aspect of the music, and wanting a safer approach. The book's entry on Kong doesn't say a lot - just that Shore and PJ had differing creative ideas and decided to part ways. The problem I have with this explanation is mentioned above - surely PJ would listen to mockups and approve themes before Shore got anywhere near the recording stage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,017 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 1 hour ago, TownerFan said: Shore allegedly reworked some of the material he wrote for King Kong for his concert work Six Pieces. Yes, three movements. Two of which are heard on the album A Palace Upon the Ruins (III and V, I think). Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, crocodile said: Yes, three movements. Two of which are heard on the album A Palace Upon the Ruins (III and V, I think). Karol All six movements are on that album, including the three with King Kong material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,017 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 1 minute ago, Jurassic Shark said: All six movements are on that album, including the three with King Kong material. Two. It used to be more than 6 pieces (7?). @Jim Ware will know. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Just now, crocodile said: Two. It used to be more than 6 pieces. Karol Ah, that's right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Ware 526 Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 On 2/19/2020 at 4:32 PM, crocodile said: Two. It used to be more than 6 pieces (7?). @Jim Ware will know. The ordering has been juggled around a bit over the years, but the best piece is missing in my opinion. crocodile 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Doug Adams 494 Posted February 25, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 25, 2020 The first third of the film was scored and recorded. The final third of the score was composed but unrecorded (save for mock-ups). The effects-driven middle third of the film -- most of the island stuff -- was unfinished and (largely) unscored. There were also discussions about an end credits song that would have featured a rather well-known band collaborating with Shore. But that never got past he discussion stage. Jackson signs off on theme demos before scoring sessions begin, but due to his editing and effects schedules, individual cues aren't generally locked until they're on the stage. Hence the score proper is not really as pre-approved as one might think. Even the final third of the score, while mocked up, was largely based on script and animatics. MaxMovieMan, Chen G., crumbs and 3 others 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 So who's to blame? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 I bet a million quid the band was Coldplay. I vividly remember loving that TV spot at the time, watched it a bunch of times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 Is Shore's version any good? Did we miss out on anything great? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 Probably not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 Kudos again to Newton Howard for turning a perfectly worthwhile replacement in such a short period of time. The score is one of the best aspects of that movie; it's biggest issue being daft runtime. Those 3hrs effectively ruled out the movie's chances of being casual TV chill fair while channel hopping on a rainy afternoon. There's a really wonderful adventure movie buried under all that bloat. PJ must have forgotten how brisk those old 50s, 60s and 70s monster movies where at the time. Like the slovenly undisciplined fool he is. GoodMusician 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,317 Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 7 hours ago, Doug Adams said: The first third of the film was scored and recorded. The final third of the score was composed but unrecorded (save for mock-ups). The effects-driven middle third of the film -- most of the island stuff -- was unfinished and (largely) unscored. Thanks for the insight Doug, nice to have some clarification after all these years. So roughly an hour recorded, an hour written but never recorded, and an hour left for Shore to write in the last 8 weeks of post? Presumably all the film's themes & leitmotifs were sketched out if the first and last acts were both composed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,017 Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 26 minutes ago, Quintus said: Kudos again to Newton Howard for turning a perfectly worthwhile replacement in such a short period of time. The score is one of the best aspects of that movie; it's biggest issue being daft runtime. Those 3hrs effectively ruled out the movie's chances of being casual TV chill fair while channel hopping on a rainy afternoon. There's a really wonderful adventure movie buried under all that bloat. PJ must have forgotten how brisk those old 50s, 60s and 70s monster movies where at the time. Like the slovenly undisciplined fool he is. Yeah, the core elements of the film are all sound. Naomi Watts and the realisation of Kong are both particularly good. And about 2/3 of it is a really good movie. I would love to see a nice trim 2-hour version of this. Karol Quintus and crumbs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Doug Adams 494 Posted February 25, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 25, 2020 15 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: So who's to blame? Sometimes these things don’t involve fault or blame. The term “creative differences” has sort of become a parody of itself, but it’s not always inaccurate. Sometimes creative parties begin on one path, then divert to others. It happens ... I mean, that’s kind of the ephemeral nature of creativity. And there are times when those creative diversions make it impossible to continue things as planned. And something has to give. I know that’s lamentably anticlimactic. It’s easier to process these things where there’s some cataclysmic event to pin everything on. At least, that’s what I kept telling myself when I was 24 hours away from hopping a flight to New Zealand to attend the recording sessions, and everything fell apart. (I didn’t have any trip insurance.) 11 hours ago, Quintus said: I bet a million quid the band was Coldplay. I vividly remember loving that TV spot at the time, watched it a bunch of times. You’d be out a million quid. 8 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said: Is Shore's version any good? Did we miss out on anything great? The principal themes — which were sort of cantilenas set for 12 cellos and soprano — were, in my opinion, some of the best lyrical work Shore has ever done. Jurassic Shark, blondheim, Chen G. and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 Ah so it was The Spice Girls then. Knew it! Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 10 hours ago, crocodile said: I would love to see a nice trim 2-hour version of this. You don't need to cut too much out of Kong (which I agree is very glacial) to make it flow a lot better. It would be great at around 2.5 hours. Trying to cut it down any more will probably make it feel much too fragemented. Its worth bearing in mind that tragedies benefit from a slower tempo just like comedies benefit from a faster one. Should it have been three hours? Hell no: even Jackson has bemoaned the editing of the film and expressed a desire to recut it. But you really don't need to cut too much out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 I can't believe it's been 15 years since this sad event. I hope the Hobbit Complete Recordings arrive sooner than Kong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Overlong, yes. But they sure don't make adventure films like this anymore... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted February 26, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 26, 2020 King Kong is better than every Hobbit movie combined. crocodile, Chen G., John and 4 others 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Its more glacial than any of them, the effects are worse, performances more uneven, the scale less warranted and the tragedy less earned. So no. Its still very affecting at the end, which is what makes or breaks a film. So yeah, a good movie - but Jackson's worst "big" film nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post KK 3,307 Posted February 26, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 26, 2020 23 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said: King Kong is better than every Hobbit movie combined. Oh, without a doubt. Not an ounce of the Hobbit films comes close to the moving sincerity of the Watts/Kong dynamic. Barnald, Not Mr. Big, mstrox and 1 other 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,457 Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 23 minutes ago, Chen G. said: Jackson's worst "big" film nonetheless. That would be The Battle of the Five Armies. With the second half of Desolation of Smaug following. As for Shore's score, a release of it would be odd. Just the first and the final third of the movie (I believe it would be a re-recording - maybe they'll use the City of Prague Orchestra?). But it would still be sad, since we may never know how Shore would've scored the dinosaur rampage, or the Kong v T-Rexes battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Adams 494 Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 42 minutes ago, Edmilson said: That would be The Battle of the Five Armies. With the second half of Desolation of Smaug following. As for Shore's score, a release of it would be odd. Just the first and the final third of the movie (I believe it would be a re-recording - maybe they'll use the City of Prague Orchestra?). But it would still be sad, since we may never know how Shore would've scored the dinosaur rampage, or the Kong v T-Rexes battle. The dinosaur stampede was scored and recorded. I believe it was the only island sequence that had enough footage ready at the time ... and even then, it was a significantly different effort. Still, it exists! Edmilson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 2 hours ago, Not Mr. Big said: King Kong is better than every Hobbit movie combined. What? The ending to Kong was ruined with Denham's comically over the top line "beauty killed the beast". The movie is an overlong mess. There are plenty of iconic moments in the Hobbit films. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 I've only seen Hobbot 2 and can't remember much from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 This movie was more boring than Algebra II, but it did translate into a fun theme park ride. It seems to have the ingredients for that sort of popcorn entertainment and the time constraints of a 5-10 minute theme park experience obviously reigned Jackson in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,287 Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 2 hours ago, gkgyver said: There are plenty of iconic moments in the Hobbit films. Iconic in what way? Generally I don't see anybody talk about The Hobbits as anything but disappointments. Riddles in the Dark and Bilbo meeting Smaug are fine but the excitement of those at the time has worn off. The Battle of the Five Armies is altogether forgettable. It seems the most memorable aspect of the trilogy is the fact that they turned one book into three movies. Nobody's forgotten that and I think that is pretty much its legacy, otherwise it has no cultural currency. But neither does King Kong, besides contributing to Andy Serkis's reputation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 8 hours ago, Doug Adams said: which were sort of cantilenas set for 12 cellos and soprano Interesting! 1 hour ago, Gruesome Son of a Bitch said: This movie was more boring than Algebra Algebra is quite fun if you pay attention. 1 hour ago, mrbellamy said: But neither does King Kong, besides contributing to Andy Serkis's reputation. Yeah, it very impressive that he managed to put on weight to fill out the monkey suit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post gkgyver 1,645 Posted February 26, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 26, 2020 1 hour ago, mrbellamy said: Iconic in what way? Generally I don't see anybody talk about The Hobbits as anything but disappointments. Then you should interact with people outside this forum. Jurassic Shark, Evanus and MaxMovieMan 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,287 Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Weirdly this forum is the only place I see people saying they're particularly good. Well, especially the third. Chen’s avatar is really the only Hobbit presence that comes up in my life or Internet adventures at all since 2014... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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