Minority report 1 13 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 With the Vienna phil concert in the news recently because of A TV showing on Austrian tv on June 1st and the DG CD coming out, I was thinking why some of his lesser known works are not performed . It always seems to be the same stuff from Star wars, Jaws, Harry potter ,Indiana jones , Superman and a few others. I have a preference for his other film compositions , which are suited to a big orchestral concert in so many ways. It would be nice to hear works from his earlier day , particularly when he transitioned from TV to Films eg. The Cowboys, The Poseidon Adv, Towering Inferno, Close Encounters, I guess not deemed popular enough for concerts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve 593 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 14 minutes ago, Minority report 1 said: With the Vienna phil concert in the news recently because of A TV showing on Austrian tv on June 1st and the DG CD coming out, I was thinking why some of his lesser known works are not performed . It always seems to be the same stuff from Star wars, Jaws, Harry potter ,Indiana jones , Superman and a few others. I have a preference for his other film compositions , which are suited to a big orchestral concert in so many ways. It would be nice to hear works from his earlier day , particularly when he transitioned from TV to Films eg. The Cowboys, The Poseidon Adv, Towering Inferno, Close Encounters, I guess not deemed popular enough for concerts. Close encounters and The Cowboys are performed regulary by orchestras. Regarding Vienna, it was clear that on his first visit he would conduct his most famous pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 Like you, I want to see and hear less performed Williams scores from his earlier days (like the 60s) in concert, but alas, that seems very unlikely. Gotta draw them crowds and play them crowdpleasers.....over and over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minority report 1 13 Posted May 27, 2020 Author Share Posted May 27, 2020 2 hours ago, Steve said: Close encounters and The Cowboys are performed regulary by orchestras. Regarding Vienna, it was clear that on his first visit he would conduct his most famous pieces. Um. not true and not clear. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmarps 217 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 I know some people who regard TreeSong as one of the best violin concertos of the 20th century, and would probably be grateful if his “non-film” music was played more often. Marcus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,076 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 Who are those people you're referring to? William Ross? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Miguel Andrade 1,263 Posted May 27, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 27, 2020 22 minutes ago, tmarps said: I know some people who regard TreeSong as one of the best violin concertos of the 20th century, and would probably be grateful if his “non-film” music was played more often. 18 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: Who are those people you're referring to? William Ross? I almost feel that first quote is directed at me... WilliamsStarShip2282, Jurassic Shark and Disco Stu 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve 593 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 37 minutes ago, Minority report 1 said: Um. not true and not clear. Thank you What is not true? Clear regarding vienna was that they wouldnt perform Stepmom, Rosewood or Five sacred trees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,513 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,076 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 3 minutes ago, Fabulin said: I agree. It was clear that Anne Sophie-Mutter wouldn't have enough time to pick up bassoon playing. I'm sure the bassoon would humour her. After all, she's not a woman you can say no to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 Coincidentally, I listened to TreeSong just this morning actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete 907 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 Williams conducted both his CE3K suite and The Cowboys Overture in London in 1998. I think it's been a while since he conducted Cowboys, but I don't think performances of the Close Encounters suite are rare. Cowboys sure sounded amazing live! Naïve Old Fart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 Incidentally, in case you missed it, Minority report 1, I hosted a Wiliams concert in Oslo on January 18th, the same day he was in Vienna. In this concert, we included some rare pieces, including the world premieres of BACHELOR FLAT and CHECKMATE. And a couple of semi-rarities, like a version of "Duel of the Fates" with choir, and the "Keeper of the Grail" theme from INDY 3. Find the full programme and concert report here: thx99 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 Minority report Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,076 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 2 hours ago, Thor said: Incidentally, in case you missed it, Minority report 1, I hosted a Wiliams concert in Oslo on January 18th, the same day he was in Vienna. In this concert, we included some rare pieces, including the world premieres of BACHELOR FLAT and CHECKMATE. And a couple of semi-rarities, like a version of "Duel of the Fates" with choir, and the "Keeper of the Grail" theme from INDY 3. Find the full programme and concert report here: When will Deutsche Grammophon release the bluray and CD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,456 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 I'd like to see A Window to the Past, Parade of the Slave Children and The Rebellion is Reborn performed live someday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,193 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 4 hours ago, pete said: Williams conducted both his CE3K suite and The Cowboys Overture in London in 1998. I think it's been a while since he conducted Cowboys, but I don't think performances of the Close Encounters suite are rare. Cowboys sure sounded amazing live! The Cowboys Overture was performed at Tanglewood last year, although in the portion of the concert conducted by Newman (Williams conducted the last third of the concert). And the CE3K suite is of course among his frequently performed works, and was also on the Vienna programme. pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve 593 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 2 hours ago, Edmilson said: I'd like to see A Window to the Past, Parade of the Slave Children and The Rebellion is Reborn performed live someday. Awesome tracks. The Rebellion is Reborn was performed in Vienna this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmarps 217 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 8 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: Who are those people you're referring to? William Ross? One of the top musicologists working in Britain currently. 5 hours ago, Thor said: Incidentally, in case you missed it, Minority report 1, I hosted a Wiliams concert in Oslo on January 18th, the same day he was in Vienna. In this concert, we included some rare pieces, including the world premieres of BACHELOR FLAT and CHECKMATE. And a couple of semi-rarities, like a version of "Duel of the Fates" with choir, and the "Keeper of the Grail" theme from INDY 3. Find the full programme and concert report here: Nice!!!! Great choices Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,076 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 30 minutes ago, tmarps said: One of the top musicologists working in Britain currently. Whose name should not be mentioned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmarps 217 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 4 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: Whose name should not be mentioned? I don’t like to name drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,913 Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 I thought the USC concert he did around 2007 had a lot of rare works. I hadn't heard the Cowboys Overture before then and he did Amistad which is rare plus the Horn Concerto. He did something for wind quintet too I think it was an arrangement from Harry Potter for wind quintet. Then I think a bunch of the usual's like Harry Potter, Jaws, Superman, Raiders, Star Wars, Imperial march, ect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamsStarShip2282 308 Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 I still have programs of back in the day when its was just JW and the Pops in Boston, and it was a concert of basically whatever he wanted, opening with golden age stuff, then a Mozart violin concerto, and then I remember he did the Accidental tourist, Close Encounters, and the first HP fresh off the press, whenever that was. I'm not sure when it became "film night", but i remember it started to alternate kind of, with a lot of the same stuff getting rotated. For years ET was the encore, and now its the Imperial March. Sound the Bells and the Cowboys Suite were used a lot to open concerts, and for years and years I think Memoirs of a Geisha was a staple. He used to do Dracula a lot in Boston, but I remember now that I've seen him conduct Close Encounters many times, but only at Tanglewood, maybe once in Boston, but I can't remember. Super man used to be a staple as well, haven't heard that in years now either except he did conduct it last year at Tanglewood with ASM. Old man ramble over...... must be time for my pills.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 Always Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete 907 Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 Williams not performing Superman at the 1998 London concerts left me traumatized. tmarps 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,287 Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 Just saying but I’ve seen Williams in concert three times and have yet to hear Jurassic Park live but have heard Jane Eyre, Cowboys, Close Encounters, and his first Violin Concerto. WilliamsStarShip2282 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omen II 1,235 Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 4 hours ago, Gruesome Son of a Bitch said: Always I saw the Royal Scottish National Orchestra play music from Always at a concert of John Williams's music at Usher Hall in Edinburgh in 2017. Williams had loaned the score to conductor and friend Richard Kaufman from his personal library. It was honestly one of the highlights of an excellent concert and should be programmed more often. The concert also featured some other Williams rarities such as Jim's New Life from Empire of the Sun and Flight and Technology from The Unfinished Journey. The concert was discussed here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamsStarShip2282 308 Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 Actually, now that I think about it Always has been programmed in Boston before. Jurassic Park I think I heard conducted twice in maybe.... 20 years of going to see him in Boston/ Tanglewood. I think it isnt done much because it takes a lot of rehearsal to get the right balance and pitch. Most recordings, even the Vienna one, is pitchy in the big lush moments. mrbellamy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieter Boelen 740 Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 On 5/27/2020 at 2:42 PM, Thor said: In this concert, we included some rare pieces, including the world premieres of BACHELOR FLAT and CHECKMATE. And a couple of semi-rarities, like a version of "Duel of the Fates" with choir, and the "Keeper of the Grail" theme from INDY 3. Wow! Were any good recordings made of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 21 hours ago, Pieter Boelen said: Wow! Were any good recordings made of that? No 'good' recordings, alas. Only mediocre-sounding audio. Pieter Boelen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,528 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 On 5/27/2020 at 1:42 PM, pete said: Williams conducted both his CE3K suite and The Cowboys Overture in London in 1998. I think it's been a while since he conducted Cowboys, but I don't think performances of the Close Encounters suite are rare. Cowboys sure sounded amazing live! It sure did, as did the encore on July 4: HELL'S KITCHEN. A rare privilege to hear that one, it was. As for older material there is a YouTube clip of the "disaster suite" from Filmharmonic '76. THE TOWERING INFERNO was going to be played at the Proms, in 2017, but was cancelled. pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 50 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said: It sure did, as did the encore on July 4, HELL'S KITCHEN. A rare privilege, to hear that one, it was. Oh man, I'd LOVE to hear something from SLEEPERS live. What a marvelously underrated score it is (and film, for that matter). And having a drum kit on stage would be great too, one of Williams' super-rare forays into a rock-infused sound. Williams has often performed pieces from whatever current project he's worked on in his concerts, but many of them have never become part of the repertoire, so to speak. Like if you went to a Williams concert in the mid 90s, he might have performed something from NIXON or whatever. But then hardly ever again once a few years had passed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,076 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 He could certainly have performed these more often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,528 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 I guess that's why there were two distinctive sets, in 1998: one being the "popular" stuff (JW's greatest hits, as it were), and the other set comprising of lesser known material. I enjoyed set 1, but I enjoyed set 2 a lot more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TownerFan 4,983 Posted June 1, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 1, 2020 On 5/31/2020 at 3:47 AM, WilliamsStarShip2282 said: I still have programs of back in the day when its was just JW and the Pops in Boston, and it was a concert of basically whatever he wanted, opening with golden age stuff, then a Mozart violin concerto, and then I remember he did the Accidental tourist, Close Encounters, and the first HP fresh off the press, whenever that was. I'm not sure when it became "film night", but i remember it started to alternate kind of, with a lot of the same stuff getting rotated. For years ET was the encore, and now its the Imperial March. Sound the Bells and the Cowboys Suite were used a lot to open concerts, and for years and years I think Memoirs of a Geisha was a staple. He used to do Dracula a lot in Boston, but I remember now that I've seen him conduct Close Encounters many times, but only at Tanglewood, maybe once in Boston, but I can't remember. Super man used to be a staple as well, haven't heard that in years now either except he did conduct it last year at Tanglewood with ASM. Old man ramble over...... must be time for my pills.... When JW became Pops' principal conductor, he wisely decided to remain faithful to the traditon of the Pops concert programming, a.k.a. the three-act program that defined the Boston Pops standard. Williams started to put some of his own pieces into the programs (usually as part of the "showbusiness" third act of the concerts) since the very beginning of his tenure, but he was clever enough to avoid putting the spotlght on himself, so he did it very carefully and only seldomly. Some of the audience though came to the concerts and expected tos ee him conducting Star Wars and the likes, so he had to find a balance without taking anything away from the prestige post he was occupying. Once he gained more confidence (and also became more and more a reason of attraction for the very severe Bostonian audience), more of his own film pieces became part of the Pops standard, but he also started to write more music for the orchestra (for example the Tuba Concerto, written for the Pops principal tuba Chester Schmitz). Nonetheless, Williams avoided the Pops to become "the John Williams show", showing an immense respect to the orchestra's history and legacy. From what I know, the now traditional "John Williams' Film Night" began in the late 1990s, when the Pops continued to use his starpower to bring a wider audience and Williams became more active as a conductor of his own music in concert. However, Williams programmed a few film night-type of concerts during his tenure at the Pops--in 1981 he brought Lionel Newman to conduct a full concert devoted to Hollywood's golden age scores; Marvin Hamlisch appeared several times throughout the JW years as guest conductor performing selections from his popular film works such as The Way We Were and A Chorus Line; Michael Kamen conducted a full film music concert that included a suite from Robin Hood Prince of Thieves and a couple of Williams' pieces. As for performing his lesser-known works more often, it's my belief that Williams simply has preferences over his own works, as we all do, and that's it. Despite how highly we might think of some of his more obscure output, he's sensitive enought to avoid using his starpower to put the audience in front of something that might not be received as well as, let's say, the Raiders March, or the Cowboys Overture. Like every artist connected to his audience, Williams is sensitive about how they feel and react. Of course we also know the man is humble to the point of being almost self-deprecating, but as I said several other times, i think it's duty of the next generation of conductors and musicians to shed a light into his lesser-known scores. It bodes well that fellow conductors like Keith Lockhart and Richard Kaufman have been able to convince him to dust off the occasional hidden gem. 7 hours ago, Thor said: Williams has often performed pieces from whatever current project he's worked on in his concerts, but many of them have never become part of the repertoire, so to speak. Like if you went to a Williams concert in the mid 90s, he might have performed something from NIXON or whatever. But then hardly ever again once a few years had passed. Williams conducted "Hell's Kitchen" from Sleepers also at Tanglewood in the summer of 1996. Lockhart conducted "The Turbulent Years" from Nixon throughout the whole 2019 Pops season, including the annual "John Williams Film Night" (the composer didn't attend last year) Jay, KittBash, Pieter Boelen and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,193 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 And let's not forget that artists also have to be mindful of their audience. Especially when they're known for big, popular hits and make their first (and possibly only) appearance in a particular country. I've heard several people say about the Vienna concerts that they were a bit disappointed to hear so many "unknown" pieces, but fortunately the played the "more important" ones in the end. TownerFan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,287 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 I've heard similar thoughts when we've gone to see him and the program wasn't just greatest hits across the board. But this is just how it goes for any live performer, fans who are in real deep will have their faves that they're likely never going to hear, unless there's a particular tour devoted to that (some artists tour specific albums, Weird Al Yankovic did a "no parodies" tour a couple years ago, ha! But the trade-off is that those things are usually in smaller venues) Williams is obviously a crowdpleaser, he loves audiences. He makes the occasional concession to an obscurity for himself and whoever's out there that might remember, and he'll do things like forgo main themes for supporting pieces from popular movies like "Marion's Theme" or "Out to Sea and Shark Cage Fugue" but he's aware that even though he's conducted "The Imperial March" a million times and there are people who have seen him do it a million times, there are also tons of people at any given concert for whom it's a first and that's exciting for them. Not to mention those die-hards who would still love nothing more than to hear it a million more times. Tbh there are probably more of them showing up than those who want him to do Sleepers, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 I have no problem understanding Williams' motivations, as well as the general audience's desire for the crowdpleasers, but that does in no way delegitimize the genuine desires and wishes of hardcore fans to hear the rarer pieces in concerts. Naïve Old Fart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 I'd be particularly happy to hear pieces from Seven Years in Tibet, Sleepers, Nixon, The Lost World being performed live. It was wonderful hearing the Dracula End Titles in the LSO concert Incanus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 We had the tremendous luck in the early 2000's that the Helsinki Philharmonic Orchestra had several film music concerts where they performed some of the less performed material in lieu of the crowd pleasers although nothing as esoteric as Checkmate or anything like that. We actually got to hear Indy's Very First Adventure and Escape from Venice from the Last Crusade and the film version of the Parade of the Slave Children (Slave Children's Crusade) from Temple of Doom that while from very popular and well-know John Williams scores were a huge surprise as these certainly weren't the usual concert material I was anticipating. But alas most of these film music concerts are not built with the diehard fans in mind but the more casual fandom who happen to like Star Wars, Jurassic Park or E.T. which often dictates the programmes of these concerts. Concert with Diamond Head, Not with My Wife You Don't, Penelope, Kraft Suspense Theater and Jane Eyre wouldn't just draw the crowds more than it would be a head scratcher to the general populace. And certainly I would love to hear an all obscure John Williams scores and concert pieces concert sometime. Even an all John Williams concertos concert would be terrific (I have thusfar only heard his Tuba Concerto live). Williams certainly has countless wonderful scores and pieces that I would love to hear in concert hall that have never been introduced into regular concert repertoire. And actually just last year another orchestra (Vantaa Pops Orchestra) programmed e.g. Goodbye Mr. Chips Overture for their concert of John Williams' music. And it seems that due to the popularity of the concerts (all three sold out) they have prepared another one in the coming October with this wonderful programme (needless to say I got my ticket already): The Reunion / War Horse Parade of the Slave Children / Indiana Jones Marion’s theme / Raiders of the Lost Ark Scherzo / Motorcycle Chairman’s Waltz / from Memoirs of Geisha Sayuri’s theme and End Credits / from Memoirs of a Geisha Sugarland Express theme / Sugarland Express March / 1941 Swing Swing Swing / 1941 Main theme, Reys theme, March of the Resistance, The Jedi Steps / Star Wars Force Awakens Overture / The Cowboys Main theme / 7 Years in Tibet Reprise and End Credits / Catch Me if you Can Hymn to the Fallen / Saving Private Ryan Somewhere in my Memory / Home Alone Harry’s Wondrous World / Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone Battle of the Heroes – The Revenge of the Sith / Star Wars Duel of the Fates – The Phantom Menace / Star Wars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieter Boelen 740 Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 16 hours ago, Romão said: Seven Years in Tibet I'm really confused by how I haven't come across a single re-recording from that one. Even though it's really quite a stunningly beautiful piece of music. Would be nice to occasionally drop Schindler's List and have this one instead. (Sacrilege...?) 1977 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 On 6/1/2020 at 10:16 PM, Thor said: I have no problem understanding Williams' motivations, as well as the general audience's desire for the crowdpleasers, but that does in no way delegitimize the genuine desires and wishes of hardcore fans to hear the rarer pieces in concerts. Absolutely. That's why I think it's duty of the conductors and musicians who will keep his legacy alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Thor 7,504 Posted June 3, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 3, 2020 Indeed. I hope I get to a point in my life where I can host and arrange more concerts. I'm working on the first Nordic film music festival, after all. I have an idea for this, which is a jazz ensemble performing a string of rare, jazzy Williams pieces from the 50s and 60s (and perhaps some newer jazz things, like CATCH ME IF YOU CAN -- just to have a couple of familiar titles). But most of these would require new arrangements (like we did with BACHELOR FLAT and CHECKMATE), and that's both expensive and time-consuming. Pieter Boelen, TownerFan, SingeMoisi and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1977 1,743 Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 2 hours ago, Pieter Boelen said: stunningly beautiful THIS Pieter Boelen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,076 Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 55 minutes ago, Thor said: Indeed. I hope I get to a point in my life where I can host and arrange more concerts. I'm working on the first Nordic film music festival, after all. I have an idea for this, which is a jazz ensemble performing a string of rare, jazzy Williams pieces from the 50s and 60s (and perhaps some newer jazz things, like CATCH ME IF YOU CAN -- just to have a couple of familiar titles). But most of these would require new arrangements (like we did with BACHELOR FLAT and CHECKMATE), and that's both expensive and time-consuming. To minimize costs, you could start with concerts using the smallest ensemble possible - a piano. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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