publicist 4,643 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 3 hours ago, Thor said: Muething's mad ramblings in that Facebook thread were more disgusting than anything Zimmer wrote in relation to James. True, but he's generally right. It's like a Herrmann rant no one wants to hear or be subjected to (it's not what *nice* people do!), still, Zimmer's work practices, combined with his sweet-talking and selling of them, are in large part responsible for the blockbuster style we endure to this day. 2 hours ago, bollemanneke said: Can yo uelaborate? What did James take down? That's still a disgusting outcome. I'll be more critical of HZ from now on. He edited or even took down some of his reviews for Junkie XL scores. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 Why would he do that? What did he think the consequences would be if he left them up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,352 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 Pathetic. If Zimmer can't stand criticism, taht's his issue. TSMefford and Edmilson 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 8 minutes ago, The Big Man said: Why would he do that? What did he think the consequences would be if he left them up? Hans promised to give him exclusive insights at future press junkets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 5 minutes ago, publicist said: Hans promised to give him exclusive insights at future press junkets. I'd have told him where to shove it bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 9 hours ago, publicist said: What Zimmer did what was to moan Southall into censoring a few harmless reviews, that probably criticized said musical creations all too well. In retrospect, a perfect fit for the age of woke and Twitter outrages. That may have been the outcome, but I doubt that was the intent. Seems like Zimmer was just trying to call out bs film fandom rhetoric. Obviously he could have done that with more grace, and it doesn’t excuse the problematic practices at his own studio. But I don’t think he’s not entirely off-base in some of the things he’s expressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,091 Posted March 10, 2021 Author Share Posted March 10, 2021 35 minutes ago, KK said: I don’t think he’s not entirely off-base in some of the things he’s expressing. Agreed, he's entirely off-base. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 I’m not sure how anyone could think a 4 hour JXL score would be anything other than sonic torture. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was commissioned by Guantanamo Bay. Holko and Tom Guernsey 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,473 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 Sometimes I think it would be rather funny if Zimmer decides to join our forum and see what people here write about him and his accolytes. He'd spend the whole day just typing offensive messages to his haters here. "Tom once performed for a MILLION people in Rome! He knows more about musical flow than any of you pathetic haters will EVER know!" DarthDementous and Bilbo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bayesian 1,364 Posted March 10, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted March 10, 2021 9 hours ago, publicist said: Zimmer seems to be a shamer, look at my creative pals that were done wrong! His old german arch enemy Muething (from our own german FB group) engaged Zimmer in a real ugly catfight in this thread over his 'hack empire', and as unwelcome such display of open hatred may appear, he got much closer to the heart of the matter, namely that Zimmer is a good salesman and his commercial appeal all too easy mistaken for boundless creativity. This. So very this. Couldn’t have said it better myself. Because this is exactly what the problem is, isn’t it? Zimmer is a talented self-taught musician who managed to parlay said talent into a one-man industry that reshaped the Hollywood sound in his image. But as with many self-taught talents, some time ago he either reached his creative limits without realizing it or he embraced those limits and redirected his efforts toward making as much hay as he can from his moderately-above-mediocre product. I’m no psychologist, but Zimmer’s oft-repeated statements of having put in his time, paid his dues, slaved over his work for years, etc. sound like pleas to us to give his (or his protégés’) work the highest possible respect almost solely on the basis of the amount of hard work: “I worked really hard on this, so you really should give it the respect you’d give JW or John Barry or Morricone.” Maybe there’s a hint of imposter syndrome lurking beneath those comments, I dunno. I absolutely respect hard work. But a person can work really really hard at something and never make a truly great product. I have no musical training, but if I tried really hard for a couple years, I bet I could eventually write something pleasing to the ear, maybe even accidentally stumble across techniques that trained composers would have been taught on day 1. But I wouldn't ever try to tell the world to respect my music simply because I worked at it really hard. The Illustrious Jerry, TSMefford, Holko and 4 others 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,091 Posted March 10, 2021 Author Share Posted March 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Bilbo said: I’m not sure how anyone could think a 4 hour JXL score would be anything other than sonic torture. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was commissioned by Guantanamo Bay. DC, GB, what's the difference... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 1 hour ago, KK said: That may have been the outcome, but I doubt that was the intent. Seems like Zimmer was just trying to call out bs film fandom rhetoric. I think you're off to vague-town here. I don't take most fans very seriously, but I don't see how that translates into getting into a fit about a guy expressing doubts about 4-hour Junkie XL blockbuster dump. And tbh, Zimmer's call for an appearance of some lowlife at one of *his* press junkets is a rather thinly veiled attempt at putting the guy into his rightful place: bow before the maestro! He's of course much too clever to let you see right through it, so there's whining about the PR grind mill, but that's a 100% what it amounts to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 Jwfan. What a wretched hive of scum, villainy, and bitterness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 29 minutes ago, Bayesian said: Zimmer is a talented self-taught musician who managed to parlay said talent into a one-man industry that reshaped the Hollywood sound in his image. But as with many self-taught talents, some time ago he either reached his creative limits without realizing it or he embraced those limits and redirected his efforts toward making as much hay as he can from his moderately-above-mediocre product. Oh, but he does cherry-pick (and knows very well what to slave off), and I don't think self-taught talents are in any more danger of burning out than *taught* talents. But that's less the issue, it's a plain and simple fact that RCP and its ilk are a huge machinery with many, many guys in its service to produce what amounts to very little remarkable music - the empire stutters since years now, and even before that, for every Interstellar or Inception, there are 20 clones of little distinction. And the same number of unremarkable animation or drama scores. The dubious quality of modern commercial scores certainly is due to other factors, too - Zimmer reacted to certain trends, i. e. time crunches that became too much to bear, the necessity to demo every cue etc., but I still find it rich that he presents all that as the hallmark of creative work. Bayesian and Tom Guernsey 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 21 minutes ago, bruce marshall said: Jwfan. What a wretched hive of scum, villainy, and bitterness You know where the door is if you don’t like it. Holko and Edmilson 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,091 Posted March 10, 2021 Author Share Posted March 10, 2021 Actually, I don't think he knows where it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 From WAGNERISM by Alex Ross. Talking about the premiere Bayreuth festival: 2 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: Actually, I don't think he knows where it is. Why would I leave? My work here has only just begun😁 Jurassic Shark and Remco 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 2 hours ago, publicist said: I think you're off to vague-town here. I don't take most fans very seriously, but I don't see how that translates into getting into a fit about a guy expressing doubts about 4-hour Junkie XL blockbuster dump. And tbh, Zimmer's call for an appearance of some lowlife at one of *his* press junkets is a rather thinly veiled attempt at putting the guy into his rightful place: bow before the maestro! He's of course much too clever to let you see right through it, so there's whining about the PR grind mill, but that's a 100% what it amounts to. The fit is petty, no doubt. But I see Zimmer's rants as an attempt to shed light on his colleague's line of work, something that is often misunderstood or dismissed on the lines of diverging aesthetic preferences. Everyone argues about this stuff like they really know what happens in the RC black box, and as if everyone there is just sleeping their asses off and rolling in dough. I, personally, have little patience for the musical banality of whatever little I've heard from JXL, but I can also admit that from a craftsmanship/production perspective (specifically with regards to his sound), what he does is not at all easy. And my understanding is that Zimmer's lashing out had more to do with tackling those existing biases around many of his colleagues than the 4 hour album, which I'm sure even he probably found excessive. And before we start conflating issues. This is separate from the general industry malpractice and negligences that happen around RC, especially the people at the bottom of the chain...and yes, it seems to mostly be a music making factory, with any of the creative work only really happening at the very top of the RC hierarchy, if you're ever get lucky enough to make it there. But that goes for most of the corporate music industry at large. And I'm not defending any of that. And while bullying people on Facebook comments sections is certainly not the answer, I can at least understand where some of his frustrated outbursts might be rooted in. Quintus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 You ever see the head of Maccas hurling abuse at randoms on Facebook for saying they'd never eat his company's food for four hours and it tastes like shit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 I've invented a term to describe the pathology of Zimmer-bashing: " anti-Zimmertism". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 I've only sampled a few responses here but I suspect most side with Southall. That's right; world famous FILM composer loses out to Internet blogger!? 😒 bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 12 hours ago, KK said: And while bullying people on Facebook comments sections is certainly not the answer, I can at least understand where some of his frustrated outbursts might be rooted in. That's the least interesting aspect to me. That all this presumed or actual work goes into endless banal regurgitations of blockbuster sequels, prequels and so on geared towards 12-year olds is a point that high-paid celebs like Zimmer conveniently choose to forget when it suits them - though he's the first one to admit the cultural downgrade, as evidenced by more informal interviews, especially with the non-american press. I'm generally out of here, as I think everything that needs to be said was said, even multiple times by the same guys, but at least I promise to listen to this Justice League thing to see if I got anything wrong. Quintus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,473 Posted May 8, 2021 Share Posted May 8, 2021 James Southall is back on the review business with three brand new reviews - one of them I already posted on the JL thread. https://www.facebook.com/moviewave/posts/4021997377876419 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted May 8, 2021 Share Posted May 8, 2021 Man. That was a long ' ban'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,484 Posted May 8, 2021 Share Posted May 8, 2021 So, Zimmer is two months older! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Lord Zimmer 211 Posted May 9, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted May 9, 2021 On 5/8/2021 at 7:05 PM, Edmilson said: James Southall is back on the review business with three brand new reviews - one of them I already posted on the JL thread. https://www.facebook.com/moviewave/posts/4021997377876419 No one cares. LSH, Holko, Bespin and 2 others 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oomoog the Ecstatic 314 Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 On 3/9/2021 at 8:18 AM, Edmilson said: My point still stands. Zimmer has a problem accepting that some fans don't like his music, or the music of his associates. It's not that people don't like his music, its that they don't like how popular his style is in the industry, as if, "Want to be successful? Compose like Zimmer." Some composers throughout the centuries have written good music that's more digestible and popular than others. It doesn't mean it's great music. HunterTech and TSMefford 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,473 Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 5 hours ago, Lord Zimmer said: No one cares. Wow, someone is afraid of having your feelings hurt by negative reviews from Southall. I know it is humiliating, degrading and very painful to read that your minions (specially Junkie) can't write music not even to save their lives , but... it's true. What you're gonna do, sue Southall? Or will you just gonna cry like a baby on Facebook? Asshole! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 You have to give him props for passing on TENET. Talk about a thankless assignment! 7 minutes ago, Edmilson said: I know it is humiliating, degrading and very painful to read that your minions (specially Junkie) can't write music not even to save their lives , but... Ok, Ed. Let's listen to music you have composed. I look forward to hearing from someone who CAN write music. We're all ears....😒 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephariel 451 Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 2 hours ago, Oomoog the Ecstatic said: It's not that people don't like his music, its that they don't like how popular his style is in the industry, as if, "Want to be successful? Compose like Zimmer." Some composers throughout the centuries have written good music that's more digestible and popular than others. It doesn't mean it's great music. I mean, why is that Zimmer's problem? Should he be less successful so those people can hate him less? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 9 hours ago, Mephariel said: I mean, why is that Zimmer's problem? Should he be less successful so those people can hate him less? Internet fanboys think film music is some high mighty art form that’s immune from the business side of the industry. bruce marshall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oomoog the Ecstatic 314 Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 Least immune from business, that would be the late 20th century into now. Economic freedom was at its highest, music industry as diverse and free-market as possible. With films however, you're always talking about a collaboration. Half of the time these collaborations are better than your average artists because there's a bigger vision, more inspiration, higher standards, that's where the orchestra and other ensembles were really repurposed. Other times, films and scores fall completely short. There was no better outlet than film, TV or games to produce high art, that is, if you're going to ask me if a Beatles album is better than one by Uematsu. It's just, will it be done nowadays or not. The Index of Economic Freedom says we're doing worse than we were 12 years ago, and popular scores are very same-y within their respective eras. We can only hope the question's not so much about Zimmer, even though he's changed a lot of the film sound. Can we get a much better Zimmer coming into this century, it's still possible, after all, we got a much better Korngold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,473 Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 Okay, which one of you guys are trolling the Instagram of Zimmer's daughter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,091 Posted September 24, 2021 Author Share Posted September 24, 2021 That's how @Lord Zimmer creates attention about himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,302 Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 Has Hans Zimmer aged well? Mostly no. But have his concept albums aged well? Well, mostly no. But have his collaborations aged well? Mostly no I guess. Jurassic Shark and Tom Guernsey 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,553 Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 Has Zimmer aged well? Ask me again, in 50 years, when JW's and Jerry's music is still being studied, and played in the concert halls, and Zimmer's scores have been consigned to the bargain bin of film history. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Zimmer 211 Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 50 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said: Has Zimmer aged well? Ask me again, in 50 years, when JW's and Jerry's music is still being studied, and played in the concert halls, and Zimmer's scores have been consigned to the bargain bin of film history. Kids these days already view the likes of Williams/Goldsmith as antiques, about as relevant as floppy disks. It is just wishful thinking their output will somehow magically live on (except for nerds like on this forum), that your favourite composer who has brought you so much joy could not possibly be forgotten. Hell, Elfman and Williams aren't even 6ft under and their themes have already been replaced (multiple times). Much more likely scenario is that the likes of Goransson and whatnot define a new era of film music and be top dog, only to be replaced and forgotten by their successors. Rinse and repeat. Age of the internet has no room for sentimental bullshit. Koray Savas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,553 Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 Truth is, the likes of Williams and Goldsmith will be remembered long after Zimmer et. al. have all gone the way of the dodo. Bespin and Jurassic Shark 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,091 Posted September 24, 2021 Author Share Posted September 24, 2021 43 minutes ago, Lord Zimmer said: Kids these days already view the likes of Williams/Goldsmith as antiques, about as relevant as floppy disks. It is just wishful thinking their output will somehow magically live on (except for nerds like on this forum), that your favourite composer who has brought you so much joy could not possibly be forgotten. Hell, Elfman and Williams aren't even 6ft under and their themes have already been replaced (multiple times). Much more likely scenario is that the likes of Goransson and whatnot define a new era of film music and be top dog, only to be replaced and forgotten by their successors. Rinse and repeat. Age of the internet has no room for sentimental bullshit. Keep telling yourself that, HanZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,302 Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 I'm listeting to Muppet Treasure Island and everything. Did he do the songs? They're bangers. See, I'm not a grump! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 The songs are all credited to Barry Mann and Cynthia Weill! Good score though, and one of his most traditional efforts of all time, really. Brónach 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 6 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said: Truth is, the likes of Williams and Goldsmith will be remembered long after Zimmer et. al. have all gone the way of the dodo. Goldsmith’s music never really even broke into the public conscious outside of a few films. Zimmer’s music is more iconic, and will just as certainly be remembered alongside Williams’. Holko 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,484 Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 7 hours ago, Lord Zimmer said: Kids these days already view the likes of Williams/Goldsmith as antiques, about as relevant as floppy disks. It is just wishful thinking their output will somehow magically live on (except for nerds like on this forum), that your favourite composer who has brought you so much joy could not possibly be forgotten. Hell, Elfman and Williams aren't even 6ft under and their themes have already been replaced (multiple times). Much more likely scenario is that the likes of Goransson and whatnot define a new era of film music and be top dog, only to be replaced and forgotten by their successors. Rinse and repeat. Age of the internet has no room for sentimental bullshit. Jerk. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,553 Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 10 hours ago, Koray Savas said: ...more iconic... "...more iconic..."? There are degrees of iconicity, now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,091 Posted September 25, 2021 Author Share Posted September 25, 2021 2 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said: "...more iconic..."? There are degrees of ionicity, now? He's ionic, so beware! Naïve Old Fart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerateWohl 4,373 Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 10 hours ago, Koray Savas said: Goldsmith’s music never really even broke into the public conscious outside of a few films. Zimmer’s music is more iconic, and will just as certainly be remembered alongside Williams’. I can't remember Zimmer's music five minutes after I heard it So, I tend to disagree. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 17 hours ago, Lord Zimmer said: Much more likely scenario is that the likes of Goransson and whatnot define a new era of film music and be top dog, only to be replaced and forgotten by their successors. Rinse and repeat. Age of the internet has no room for sentimental bullshit. Judging by millions of pathetic YT clips, the internet very much has room for sentimental bullshit. Also your reasonings fall into the same trap as those of clueless Williams et al. fans, who value the worth of their idol only by kilograms of sold tickets and similar commercial exploits. Faceless masses as validation for your own tastes, i mean, really... Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,553 Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said: He's ionic, so beware! Bloody autocorrect! Are you sure he's not Doric, or Corinthian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 1 hour ago, GerateWohl said: I can't remember Zimmer's music five minutes after I heard it So, I tend to disagree. That’s great. I was clearly talking about public consciousness. If you’re seriously arguing that Zimmer won’t be remembered simply because you don’t like his music, I don’t know what else to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,091 Posted September 25, 2021 Author Share Posted September 25, 2021 Most of his music just isn't memorable, it doesn't stand out. GerateWohl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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